Do you think that the "clashes" between mother and daughter is due to jealousy?

[scaltz]

In the image of the character Oedipus and other mythological or literary figures of mothers and fathers who kill their own child for they are scared that the latter may take over their place later in life, could we affirm that child and parent could just become rivals?

Edit: just figured out that my thread title is grammatically wrong :X, sorry.

[SilentMute]

Like so many things, I don't think there is just one simple answer for this question.

Yes, jealousy can be a reason. I have known parents that are jealous of their children for their physical beauty, talents, or just the fact that they are young and have opportunities still open to them. Some are jealous because they feel their child has it easier. People get upset when their mates don't pay attention to their child, but they get jealous when the mate shows too much interest.

However, that is not the only reason. My mother and I had some difficult patches. My mother claimed it was difficult to bond with me because from the time I was an infant, I looked at her like she was totally incompetent. When I was little, I was always "shopping" for new parents. She was upset, because she did try her best, that I was trying to replace her. It was also embarrassing when I went up to men--usually of different races--and went, "Daddy!" (particularly since it wasn't a totally enlightened time).

Divorces can create problems. One problem is that because I was in the custody of grandparents--who unbeknownst to my mother--were trying to take me away from her, I was told many lies about her. They gave me the impression she didn't want me, that she was a sinful woman, etc. They would bribe me to have me ask her to let me stay with them, and then they would tell the judge she didn't try to see me.

However, when I look back, I think the main problem was that like most children--I had incredibly high expectations of my parents. I expected them to be perfect, to know everything, and to know what to do. The fact is, parents aren't perfect and they don't always know what to do. You can read all the baby books that you want, but children aren't blobs to be molded. They have their own personalities from the start--I did not conform to baby books.

When I started seeing my mother as a human being, flawed but a person who did love me and tried her best, my earlier resentments faded away. Fortunately, we always had good communication, even during the rough patches, and we survived them and have a very good relationship. It doesn't mean that she doesn't drive me crazy sometimes, but I do love her and consider myself very fortunate.

And sometimes you just clash because usually parents have a child that is a total opposite--and even if their child is like them, then they often don't like traits that they hate in themselves. My mother and I are opposites. She is bohemian, romantic, not good with money, not into looking to the future, a bit messy, and always likes the wrong sort of man. I am traditional, look at men like I'm buying a horse (does he have good genes, will he bring in an income, is he industrious, a good father, someone who won't incite me to murder), totally unromantic, big into saving, big into looking to the future, very organized and want everything neat, and while I may fantasize about the wrong sort of man--I choose nice guys in real life. I always think we're on the brink of ruin when mom has to borrow money from me, and she always looks like I'm trying to imprison her when I suggest a new way of organizing our DVD collection.

So, that is my experience.

[janesmith]

There are probably parents who envy the lifestyle and opportunities that their children now enjoy but I think that's a world away from any Oedipal association. What does seem more injurious to me is the way in which some parents attempt to live their lives vicariously through their children.

[Scheherazade]

However, when I look back, I think the main problem was that like most children--I had incredibly high expectations of my parents. I expected them to be perfect, to know everything, and to know what to do. The fact is, parents aren't perfect and they don't always know what to do. You can read all the baby books that you want, but children aren't blobs to be molded. They have their own personalities from the start--I did not conform to baby books.I think this is also true for parents.

Parents expect their children to be "perfect", achieve all the things they could/did not achieve themselves and fulfill their potential they persuade themselves that their children have.

This is why parents are shocked when they discover that their little geniuses, princes and princes behave in a less than acceptable manner or fail to be the top whatever they decide their children should star in.

Children aren't perfect... They surely don't know what to do in most cases and, what's worse, will not realise this until it is too late either.

:p

[BienvenuJDC]

Sometimes children and parents don't get along because they are "two peas in a pod" and the clash with those things that they don't like about themselves.

[scaltz]

Sometimes children and parents don't get along because they are "two peas in a pod" and the clash with those things that they don't like about themselves.

As if the parent doesn't want to see her own "imperfections" done by her daughter? Well, isn't that very egoistical for them to think like that?

[kasie]

Maybe - but surely all parents want the best for their child and would smooth out a Royal Road, if only they could. One of the hardest things for a parent, (I think - I've only watched from the side-lines as a step-parent of already grown-up daughters) is to realise that though you've passed on your brown eyes and curly hair, you can't pass on your hard-won experience and it is grieving to see your daughters/sons repeating your own worst mistakes - if only they'd listen........

[keilj]

Maybe - but surely all parents want the best for their child and would smooth out a Royal Road, if only they could. One of the hardest things for a parent, (I think - I've only watched from the side-lines as a step-parent of already grown-up daughters) is to realise that though you've passed on your brown eyes and curly hair, you can't pass on your hard-won experience and it is grieving to see your daughters/sons repeating your own worst mistakes - if only they'd listen........

Yumph. Reminds me of a quote from Springsteen. He was talking to a friend of his about being concerned about spoiling his kids and not getting them ready for the real world. His friend told him, "Do what you can for them. The world will take care of the rest."

[SilentMute]

Very true, but unfortunately we gain wisdom by experiencing the hard knocks ourselves. I gained a certain amount of wisdom watching my mother's mistakes, but I couldn't totally relate to her until I made them myself.

Besides, it is good that young people question our wisdom (though it is annoying). That is how progress is made. Think about it. My grandparents were racists. In their day, it was an acceptable outlook. Their children's generation started fighting for equal rights (I realize it was an old battle--but that is when ideas seemed to really take hold). My generation started accepting that people were equals--though it wasn't until the generation that came after me that it was fully realized--and neighborhoods became integrated, interracial relationships were accepted, etc.

One problem for a parent is that most of us forget that everything we know was learned. Children aren't born with knowledge, and they aren't always capable of understanding certain concepts until they reach a certain age. I remember a school friend being angry with her two year old for drawing in her textbook. She said, "I raised him better than that!" I felt like saying, "He's two! I doubt he understands the difference between a textbook, a coloring book, or your wall! He may even still be trying to figure out whether the crayon is edible and whether it is supposed to go up his nose!"

[soundofmusic]

Actually, my daughter was born brilliant. She built 1 foot structures from blocks at a year old. When I tried to give her a cookie or a piece of candy to reward her at 3; she reminded me that dinnertime was near. When I offered her a birthday party or cash at 8 years old; she asked if it included taxes and then figured all the gifts on a calculater.

Three to four times a year, I was called into teachers conference to ask what I intended to do to improve my genius; and 3 to 4 times a year, I reminded the teachers that as I was not a genius and my daughter was a mere anomaly of genetics....I had no idea what to do to improve her.

I have remained the same (a bit worse for wear); she has continued to improve. I sometimes think that a more brilliant or conservative parent may have made that one stroke that would turn a great work like Michelangelos David into something quite ordinary.

[BienvenuJDC]

As if the parent doesn't want to see her own "imperfections" done by her daughter? Well, isn't that very egoistical for them to think like that?

No, not egotistical...

[Virgil]

It seems to me that daughters are struggling to assert their individuality and break free from a mother's direction. No I don't think it has anything to do with jealousy, but I'm neither a mother or a daughter.

[applepie]

I don't think it has much to do with jealousy, and everything to do with individuality. Children try to ensure that they are an individual from their parents, and it seems that most of the friction is between the child and the parent of the same sex.

Would it be fair to say that conflicts between sons and fathers are a result of jealousy? I think sometimes, but rarely, are the conflicts fueled by such an intense negative emotion.

[ClaesGefvenberg]

Sometimes children and parents don't get along because they are "two peas in a pod" and the clash with those things that they don't like about themselves.I do believe that you are on to something there: My wife and daughter do experience the occasional tiff (nothing serious, just the standard mum & daughter stuff) :argue: , and I truly believe that much of it stems from the fact that they are so alike.

I am not going tell them that though. :nono: If I did, they would probably join forces and turn on the powerless mediator (aka yours truly) instead. :frown2:

Seriously: When it happens my usual role is to make them see things from each others perspective.

/Claes

[soundofmusic]

Well, perhaps there is a bit of jealousy when we see our mates and others oggling our offspring for traits we don't possess...
I recall my mother constantly reminding my father how attractive and what a great electrician my brother was...he would then get a "love clap" aside the head.
I recall when my husband bragged that our daughter was digging up the yard for dinosaur bones...did I feel a little envious since my husband never seemed to notice my areas of genius....

HECK YEAH....

Am I moritfied to admit this after 25 years....

Oh, God, am I ever....