Western novels in the style of McCarthy (dark, violent and biblical)

[hampusforev]

My favorite Dylan album is John Wesley Harding, and I just love that traditional western style. One of my favorite movies is also McCabe and Mrs. Miller. What are the essential violent and dark western novels? A plus would be if they are sort of tinged with that biblical, miltonic feeling that McCarthy paints Blood Meridian with.

Cheers!

[dfloyd]

might be the genre you're looking for. The Mormons were sort of Old Testamcent vengeful. Try Grey's Rider of the Purple Sage.

[MrRegular]

This kind of gives the wrong impression about McCarthy, Blood Meridian and No Country for Old Men were the only two of his novels featuring any substantial amounts of violence. Suttre for example is a very calm walk through a man's life and Child of God is a view of the world through the eyes of a depraved back-woods necropheliac.

[Modest Proposal]

There is a Australian film called, "The Proposition", staring Guy Pierce which is loosely inspired/based off of McCarthy's "Blood Meridian."

MrRegular, have you by chance read "The Road?" I only ask because it is usually noted, along with "No Country..." and "Blood Meridian," as being one of McCarthy's most famous works and it is violent as well.

[sixsmith]

Suttre for example is a very calm walk through a man's life . I must disagree. Suttree is a harrowing work in which violence, though never overt (or at least not to the extent of, say, Blood Meridian), is an unmistakable presence.



There is a Australian film called, "The Proposition", staring Guy Pierce which is loosely inspired/based off of McCarthy's "Blood Meridian."

A great film, though despite the significant thematic and historical commonalties, I wasn't aware it was inspired by McCarthy's novel.

To the OP: the work of William Gay may interest you. Writes squarely within the southern gothic tradition and shares much with McCarthy and, naturally, Faulkner.

[Bastable]

"And the *** Saw the Angel" is the first novel that comes to mind, it's set in the "west", and is very dark and full of biblical references. It was written by Nick Cave who also, coincidentally, wrote the aforementioned "The Proposition".

[hampusforev]

And The DONKEY(!) Saw The Angel, yes absolutely, I love it. I'm a huge Nick Cave fan, that's exactly what I'm looking for, although I've already read it...

I've been meaning to see The Proposition, Rider of the Purple Sage is supposedly very good, cheers for that one.

[dfloyd]

of the murders in Shelock Holmes' first case: A Study in Scarlet where some Mormons were involved in violent retribution.

[kelby_lake]

Sam Shepard's plays?

[hampusforev]

Really? I didn't know Shepard wrote about the west... I've been meaning to chekc out some of his plays so this might be a good time to do it. I know he wrote Paris, Texas, which is a great film, and also wrote some songs with Dylan.

Thanks, I just ordered McCarthy's border trilogy, Purple Riders, Streets of Laredo and The Virginian.

[dfloyd]

which you are getting. But don't give up on the Virginian. this is the only one which has true classic import. More than two movies have been made of The Virginian with the last two starring Gary Cooper and Joel McCrea. the movies, however, do not follow the book. A TV series was aired in the early sixties starring Doug McClure as Trampas and Lee J. Cobb as Judge Henry. The Virginian, about whom the book primarily revolves, was not often seen. the Virginian is a classic because the Owen Wister novel is about 100 years old, and it tells the story of the West's transition to law and order whereby cattlemen could not hang rustelers on their own initiative.

[kelby_lake]

Really? I didn't know Shepard wrote about the west... I've been meaning to chekc out some of his plays so this might be a good time to do it. I know he wrote Paris, Texas, which is a great film, and also wrote some songs with Dylan.
.

Fool For Love is a good one, about destructive lust. The film is slow and it's very strange but worth reading the play, certainly.

Oh- True West is a great one. It's about the rivalry between two brothers.

Buried Child is really, really weird.

[hampusforev]

A bit off topic, but perhaps better than just creating a new thread I reckon...
Are there any similar novels to Blood Meridian in terms of being just sheer terrifying? Man I was shaken by that one, the only one that I had a similar reaction to might have been Heart of Darkness, and some of Pinter's plays.

[Modest Proposal]

I don't think I've encountered anything like 'Blood Meridian' but, then again, I've read almost no westerns.

In terms of style, I might suggest something darkly beautiful like 'Absalom, Absalom!', even though it is less violent and more experimental.

[Quark]

What are the essential violent and dark western novels? A plus would be if they are sort of tinged with that biblical, miltonic feeling that McCarthy paints Blood Meridian with.

Steinbeck's East of Eden comes to mind: set in southern California, numerous biblical allusions and discussions, dark. It doesn't have as much violence as Blood Meridian (what does?), but there's certainly some there. It also shares McCarthy's focus on the gritty. I suppose it misses the Western genre by quite a ways, but it has some of the same elements. The prose might not be as strong McCarthy's, but the themes and ideas of Steinbeck's novel blow anything McCarthy wrote away.

[hampusforev]

Right, I should get around reading Steinbeck, but East of Eden has always seemed like a sort of monumental task, like Moby Dick, which I loved, but dreaded reading.

Anyway, I received a beautiful copy of the King James Bible and McCarthy's Border trilogy, and some of the western novels mentioned. I have a lot of Christmas credit on an online site, which is brilliant.

Again, without wishing to start a new thread. As I say, I loved And The A-ss Saw The Angel, and remember reading an interview with Cave where he mentioned "stylized literature" as an inspiration, which his father got him interested in. Any ideas what he might be alluding to?

[Davidbrookesuk]

This is an old post that will give away this obvious plug, but if you're interested in Westerns I have just released "The Gun of Our Maker" on Amazon and Smashwords. If you have a second and want to check it out, searching the title will bring it up as the first match.

THE GUN OF OUR MAKER by DAVID BROOKES:

Minnesota, 1859: a man is executed for skimming from a silver mine to provide for his family.

Arizona, 1877: the sins of the father catch up with the son

Six weeks later: a man on horseback scales the forests of the Mogollon Rim. He is searching for Bill Hawken, a renowned gunsmith.

Vivian Culhane is far from a typical hero. Crippled by a childhood illness, he is weak, blind – yet unstoppable.

Together they will build an instrument of vengeance that will be known across Arizona, New Mexico and Texas – a revolver that produces red smoke, with a limited supply bullets and a thirst for justice.

[Pike Bishop]

There is a Australian film called, "The Proposition", staring Guy Pierce which is loosely inspired/based off of McCarthy's "Blood Meridian."

I also thought The Proposition was a brilliant McCarthyesque film. However, outside of Western violence, I saw little similarities to Blood Meridian.

[Eiseabhal]

I doubt if you'll find much in the western genre that is in any way close to McCarthy's linguistic style. All of McCarthy's work that I've read is dark and has a fascination with violence. He is one of the great living American writers. Describing it as Biblical? In a Kings and Chronicles gangster way ... maybe. Most pulp Westerns are full of routine boys-with-guns violence. The last section of Williams' buffalo hunters novel has a Clint Eastwoodesque climax. The Searchers which I like is by contrast a slow moving affair. Not as slow moving as The Leader of the People. I'm sure there must have been the odd good pulp Western. Even fifth rate writers can produce good plots, good scenes, interesting characters sometimes and sometimes almost by accident can create a classic unforgettable text. But right now, despite having gone through a lot of these in my teens, I cannot think of any. There is a book called The Last Frontier which I read a long time ago and enjoyed. There is also Buffalo Soldiers if you really must have blood-drenched pages.

[ennison]

Outer Dark sums up his artistic position. There are bits in the Trilogy that are lighter though the main character is a teen going on fifty!

[Pike Bishop]

How does Outer Dark sum up Cormac McCarthy's artistic position? I've read most of his novels and have yet to discern such a static aesthetic. And the trilogy is pretty austere. At least John Grady keeps trying to get some; Billy Parham is so quasi-fatalist and dour, which tends to happen when everyone you encounter tells you another meta-critical account of the inherent instability of stories and narrative.

[ennison]

It inhabits a physical region a spiritual region an area of the human mind which is integral to us as humans but on the edge of our understanding and experience and I believe that is where he feels most involved. Not that the man himself seems anything but entirely sane and rational. It's not that that is all he does but these dark places are a territory he seems to like exploring. It's not mainstream America but it is mainstream human spirit. The Orchard Keeper is a strange and dark tale of small tragic lives in out-of-the-way places in time and geography. I think though Outer Dark is my favourite of his but I have read nothing by him that hasn't hit the spot for me.

[Pike Bishop]

Yes, I would certainly agree that "edge of understanding" is a recurrent theme in his works. The Crossing is definitely my favorite, with Blood Meridian a close second. As to disappointments, Cities of the Plain was my only disappointment. When I read No Country For Old Men, I thought it was an ok novel, but would make a much better film. Leave it to the Coen Brothers to make me feel prescient.