How are these symbolic places in the Arthurian literaure/legend?

[scaltz]

How are the forest, King Arthur's court and the Otherworld considered such symbolic places in the Arthurian legend to the point that they become part of the English culture? Is the Otherworld a real world (in a legend point of view) or is it just a faraway place that no one knows where it's located and is inescapable thus giving it the title "Otherworld"(e.g Lancelot)? How is the forest a place out of society's grasp? Give an example using Bedier's version of Tristan and Iseut or any other Arthurian story. And lastly why is King Arthur's court such a symbolic notion?

These questions are wholly made by me and is not a homework assignment. I just read the majority of stories in the Arthurian literature and am still a bit confused why these 3 places are held in such high regard

[scaltz]

*These questions are wholly made by me and is not a homework assignment.

Actually what i stated isn't really clear enough for In a way it is also a homework.Basically we have to give an oral presentation about a Medieval Age literature. "A" because we could choose any literature from any culture, ranging from the Japanese matter to the Celtic one; and so I obviously chose the matter of Great Britain

[scaltz]

Ummm pardon?

[Wilde woman]

I'll bite since I love all things Arthurian.


How is the forest a place out of society's grasp?

C'mon. Just think about that a little bit. I'm sure you can come up with something.


Is the Otherworld a real world (in a legend point of view) or is it just a faraway place that no one knows where it's located and is inescapable thus giving it the title "Otherworld"(e.g Lancelot)?

Hint: Check out Glastonbury Abbey. Also, in Celtic lore, the Otherworld is often located past a barrier of water - either a river or an entire sea. In some very old Arthurian works, Avalon is an island. Check if Bedier's work mentions some sort of watery threshold between this world and the Otherworld.

As for whether or not it's inescapable - it's the land of the dead, so what do you think? However, there are ancient fragments of poems that talk about larger-than-life knights who go to the Otherworld to retrieve a Grail-ish object and return to the land of the living. Also, remember that Arthur is supposed to return from Avalon once his wounds are healed.

[scaltz]

Hint: Check out Glastonbury Abbey. Also, in Celtic lore, the Otherworld is often located past a barrier of water - either a river or an entire sea. In some very old Arthurian works, Avalon is an island. Check if Bedier's work mentions some sort of watery threshold between this world and the Otherworld.

As for whether or not it's inescapable - it's the land of the dead, so what do you think? However, there are ancient fragments of poems that talk about larger-than-life knights who go to the Otherworld to retrieve a Grail-ish object and return to the land of the living. Also, remember that Arthur is supposed to return from Avalon once his wounds are healed.[/QUOTE]


Exactly, that's my dilemma, if we think in a logical manner. One would note that they are naming these Island as Otherworlds for they are a place too far to actually see, too far to actually visit. Meaning they are scared of the unknown.

[Virgil]

I never realized the settings had special significance. Thanks for bringing this up. Next time I read malory i will have to keep this in mind.

[Wilde woman]

One would note that they are naming these Island as Otherworlds for they are a place too far to actually see, too far to actually visit. Meaning they are scared of the unknown.

Well, I think it's quite a leap to make an observation like "the Otherworld" is too distant for humans to sense" all the way to "this means that they were scared of the unknown". Plus, you are using a psychological analysis, which is not something that would've been done in that era.

Yes, there is an element of fear involved, but remember that the Otherworld is also the realm of the gods. So there is an element of worship as well. In some Arthurian tales (Marie de France's jump to mind), knights have to go through a number of trials proving (among other things) that they're "worthy" of the Otherworld and the sovereignty goddess who resides there. So the Otherworld can also be compared to the Christian idea of heaven, if you want to venture there. (Look up the etymology of "Avalon" and you'll see what I mean.)

But if you do that, you must stick to texts where the Otherworld is actually distant and unreachable (like on an island). There are also Arthurian romances where knights wander into the Otherworld unknowingly; they are completely unaware they've crossed over to the other side until they start having strange adventures or (my personal favorite) return to the land of the living only to find that 100 years have passed in the course of a day! In short, what I'm saying is that not every author's view of the Otherworld is the same, so make sure the examples you cite fit your argument.


I never realized the settings had special significance. Thanks for bringing this up. Next time I read malory i will have to keep this in mind.

Virgil, Arthurian geography (if that's a valid term) has fascinated historians for centuries. Many have tried to pinpoint the locations of Arthur's twelve battles as recounted by the 9th-century monk, Nennius. I recently read a book where someone tried to trace the locations of these battles simply based on the color and breeds of the horses that Arthur and his knights might've ridden back in the 5th century!!! That was an interesting (and slightly unhinged) read. :nod:

[scaltz]

Just realized I a couple of stupid mistakes: *islandS...placeS...Meaning they are scared of the unknown: they=humans

Ugh, I seriously need to use the computer more often....

Aside that, yes I'm a logical thinker but I think that I might skip the psychoanalysis for I am still not in college ( 16 y/o) and I don't think that the teacher will actually put an unsatisfactory grade if I don't write the psychoanalysis part. Might be a case of being an overachiever.


That was an interesting (and slightly unhinged) read.

I don't think that they would have been able to conduct this research if they didn't have a demented bone in them!

[dafydd manton]

The ONLY way you will find out more about the Arthurian legends is to read the Mabinogion, which is the nearest you are going to get to contemporary (sic) literature.