Grammar Question: Quotes

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

First, I know this is the wrong forum, but by looking at the activity of other forums, I had doubts that it would actually get read and/or answered.

Is there ever a time when we should pit punctuation outside of quotation marks at the end of a sentence? For example, when I quote a line in a poem that doesn't end in a period, should I put the period that ends the sentence outside of the quotation mark? For example, should it be:

We see reinforcement of this idea when he says, "one plot, you know, / one bloody plot; one cow, one dog".

or

We see reinforcement of this idea when he says, "one plot, you know, / one bloody plot; one cow, one dog."

The line of the poem does not end with a period after "dog". It just looks so strange having a period after a quotation, but it seems to make more sense doing it this way because the quote is a part of the sentence rather than the sentence being a part of the quote, if that makes any sense at all.

[L.M. The Third]

Um, I believe the at one time it was generally accepted to put the quotation marks before the period. But punctuation has been changing somewhat over recent years, so I believe the latter is more acceptable/appropriate. Depending how much you have altered the quotation ellipsis points could be used, and then the quotation marks. Don't take me as a complete authority though!

By the way, I think you could have this question in another section and it still would have been read. I know this section is often the most popular. But personally I read the New Posts page when I come on, so I see all the new questions. I don't know if other members do this, but if they do your post will get viewed in any section.

[PeterL]

The only time when the period would be outside the quotation marks would be when the quotation marks set off something special like the title of a short story or something like "grassy knoll" when discussing the JFK assassination. A line of poetry is just a line of text, so putting the period outside would not be useful.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Okay. It just seems weird, because when quoting a line of text, especially when it's something artistic, putting a punctuation mark inside of the quotation seems like a misrepresentation of the text.

[Haunted]

It seems logical for the period to be outside of the quotation marks until I was told by some grammar expert that it should be inside. And that's what I'm seeing in published material, the periods are inside the quotation marks.

[kiki1982]

I have a grammar book that says that 'no extra puntuation is needed if it is at the end of the spoken words'.

Firstly, a quotation is not necessarily a spoken sentence, by another person. Secondly, it seems to me, that punctuation is possible after the quotation marks but not needed if the spoken words end with puntuation already.

Thus:

He said, 'I like you!' She smiled. (it is unnecessary to put another full stop after the closing quotation marks)

'I like you!' he said. She smiled.

If we do it in the academic way: 'He said "[he] like[d] [her]".

To me, there is no need for the exclamation mark in the original quote because one is talking about the mere statement. There is no need for the period either, because that is changing the quote.

It seems a little bit strange that they are not respecting their own rules to be honest...

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I'm thinking this is one of those gray areas where one professor will say do it one way, and another will say do it the other way. I'm just going with my gut, I guess.