Marcus Aurelius

[The Comedian]

Anyone read Marcus Aurelius's Meditations? I'm starting in on this book and have greatly enjoyed it. The stoic philosophy, if nothing else, is peaceful and seeks an honest balance of inner strength & individuality along with the practical sense to know that we all must just get on with small, sometimes trivial necessities of day-to-day tasks.

Anyway, if anyone would like to post on Grandpa Marcus, as I've taken to calling him, or on Roman stoicism in general, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I have a bit of background in the subject, but not much, honestly.

[Virgil]

I've read parts, especially that wonderful begining. Here:


From my grandfather Verus I learned good morals and the government of my temper.

From the reputation and remembrance of my father, modesty and a manly character.

From my mother, piety and beneficence, and abstinence, not only from evil deeds, but even from evil thoughts; and further, simplicity in my way of living, far removed from the habits of the rich.

From my great-grandfather, not to have frequented public schools, and to have had good teachers at home, and to know that on such things a man should spend liberally.

And then later on:


In my father I observed mildness of temper, and unchangeable resolution in the things which he had determined after due deliberation; and no vainglory in those things which men call honours; and a love of labour and perseverance; and a readiness to listen to those who had anything to propose for the common weal; and undeviating firmness in giving to every man according to his deserts; and a knowledge derived from experience of the occasions for vigorous action and for remission. And I observed that he had overcome all passion for boys; and he considered himself no more than any other citizen; and he released his friends from all obligation to sup with him or to attend him of necessity when he went abroad, and those who had failed to accompany him, by reason of any urgent circumstances, always found him the same. I observed too his habit of careful inquiry in all matters of deliberation, and his persistency, and that he never stopped his investigation through being satisfied with appearances which first present themselves; and that his disposition was to keep his friends, and not to be soon tired of them, nor yet to be extravagant in his affection; and to be satisfied on all occasions, and cheerful; and to foresee things a long way off, and to provide for the smallest without display; and to check immediately popular applause and all flattery; and to be ever watchful over the things which were necessary for the administration of the empire, and to be a good manager of the expenditure, and patiently to endure the blame which he got for such conduct; and he was neither superstitious with respect to the gods, nor did he court men by gifts or by trying to please them, or by flattering the populace; but he showed sobriety in all things and firmness, and never any mean thoughts or action, nor love of novelty. And the things which conduce in any way to the commodity of life, and of which fortune gives an abundant supply, he used without arrogance and without excusing himself; so that when he had them, he enjoyed them without affectation, and when he had them not, he did not want them. No one could ever say of him that he was either a sophist or a home-bred flippant slave or a pedant; but every one acknowledged him to be a man ripe, perfect, above flattery, able to manage his own and other men's affairs. Besides this, he honoured those who were true philosophers, and he did not reproach those who pretended to be philosophers, nor yet was he easily led by them. He was also easy in conversation, and he made himself agreeable without any offensive affectation. He took a reasonable care of his body's health, not as one who was greatly attached to life, nor out of regard to personal appearance, nor yet in a careless way, but so that, through his own attention, he very seldom stood in need of the physician's art or of medicine or external applications. He was most ready to give way without envy to those who possessed any particular faculty, such as that of eloquence or knowledge of the law or of morals, or of anything else; and he gave them his help, that each might enjoy reputation according to his deserts; and he always acted conformably to the institutions of his country, without showing any affectation of doing so. Further, he was not fond of change nor unsteady, but he loved to stay in the same places, and to employ himself about the same things; and after his paroxysms of headache he came immediately fresh and vigorous to his usual occupations...

I've always wanted to write a similar tribute to my parents and grandparents, especially my father.

[The Comedian]

Those opening sequences are beautiful, indeed. And writing a similar tribute would be an honor to your father, I'm sure.

So far, I'm about five "books" in to the work, the entire text reminds me of calm, but moving stream. It's perfect reading for a contemplative spring morning or an evening before bed. After reading him I not only feel more wise, but I feel calm and practical. . . .that my reading of Aurelius has somehow made me more capable to enjoy the cup of coffee and chatter with our assistant at work, more compassionate about grading my papers, or playing with my children.

I'll post some sections after a while.

[The Comedian]

Here are a couple that I enjoyed:

On purpose:

This earthly existence produces only one harvest: a godly disposition and social acts.

On the nature of our minds:

The kind of thoughts you frequently have will make your mind of the same kind, for your mind is dyed by your thoughts.

On resilience:

The best method of defense is to not become like your enemy.

And this strange bit of prophesy:

There will be soon come a man who will be better than all others, no sophist will he be; his name will be Bruce Springsteen, and he will bring the sound of awesome to the world.

[Abras]

Ah yes, "Grandpa Marcus" and his little book are pretty great. I read The Meditations for the first time a few months ago, back in December '09; in fact, I posted a review of it on my blog (http://abesbb.blogspot.com/2009/12/review-meditations-of-marcus-aurelius.html). How can you properly review something like that? Well, you can't, but still I feel I did justice to the man, the philosophy, and the book in a relatively small space. It is a marvelous piece of work that affords a very rare glimpse into the mind of an eminent Roman man -- an emperor no less. An excellent companion to The Meditations in that respect is Memoirs of Hadrian, a work of historical fiction from the mid-20th century, though it sure doesn't read or feel like fiction. Naturally, I wrote a review (http://abesbb.blogspot.com/2010/01/review-memoirs-of-hadrian-by-marguerite.html) of that, too.

Also, The Roman History Reading Group (http://romanhistorybooks.typepad.com/roman_history_books_and_m/) will be discussing The Meditations in online chat on April 21, if you're interested. Actually, I may join that discussion myself: I only recently discovered that book group, but it seems right up my alley. I think it'd be worth joining simply to see what other, well-informed though inexpert readers have to say about The Meditations. But then they throw Tacitus into the mix? Yowza! My heart's on fire.

Edit: Oh, here is one of my favorite quotes:
"The honest and good man ought to be exactly like a man who smells strong, so that the bystander as soon as he comes near him must smell whether he choose or not." (Taken from the George Long translation; I can fish up from my notebook the exact page and paragraph if requested.) Never before had I seen honesty and goodness compared to body odor.

While I'm at it, there's also this: "Even in a palace life can be lead well." though I'm not sure if dear Marcus ever explicitly wrote or said that. (I think it might have been in George Long's Introduction, though I somehow remember quotation marks...)

[AimusSage]

Ah yes, "Grandpa Marcus" and his little book are pretty great. I read The Meditations for the first time a few months ago, back in December '09; in fact, I posted a review of it on my blog (http://abesbb.blogspot.com/2009/12/review-meditations-of-marcus-aurelius.html). How can you properly review something like that? Well, you can't, but still I feel I did justice to the man, the philosophy, and the book in a relatively small space. It is a marvelous piece of work that affords a very rare glimpse into the mind of an eminent Roman man -- an emperor no less. An excellent companion to The Meditations in that respect is Memoirs of Hadrian, a work of historical fiction from the mid-20th century, though it sure doesn't read or feel like fiction. Naturally, I wrote a review (http://abesbb.blogspot.com/2010/01/review-memoirs-of-hadrian-by-marguerite.html) of that, too.

Also, The Roman History Reading Group (http://romanhistorybooks.typepad.com/roman_history_books_and_m/) will be discussing The Meditations in online chat on April 21, if you're interested. Actually, I may join that discussion myself: I only recently discovered that book group, but it seems right up my alley. I think it'd be worth joining simply to see what other, well-informed though inexpert readers have to say about The Meditations. But then they throw Tacitus into the mix? Yowza! My heart's on fire.

Edit: Oh, here is one of my favorite quotes:
"The honest and good man ought to be exactly like a man who smells strong, so that the bystander as soon as he comes near him must smell whether he choose or not." (Taken from the George Long translation; I can fish up from my notebook the exact page and paragraph if requested.) Never before had I seen honesty and goodness compared to body odor.

While I'm at it, there's also this: "Even in a palace life can be lead well." though I'm not sure if dear Marcus ever explicitly wrote or said that. (I think it might have been in George Long's Introduction, though I somehow remember quotation marks...)
Nice bit of shameless promotion of the self there mister :)

Anyway, I read some of it a long time ago, haven't gotten to the bit about The Boss yet, but it seems to make sense. :D Time to pick it back up! This kind of wisdom must not be lost to the ages.

*Wonders if there is anything in there about Star Trek.*

[Virgil]

*Wonders if there is anything in there about Star Trek.*

:lol: :lol: Very funny.

Hey Abras, I didn't know there was a Roman History Reading Group. I see you will be discussing Le Guin's Lavinia, in a few weeks. I read that last year. I may join in. :)

[Abras]

Nice bit of shameless promotion of the self there mister :)
Thank you, my friend! It is a real art form, you know, putting in links to articles relative to the subject at hand, a subject in which I am deeply interested. And hey, if I happened to write these articles... :)

@Virgil: Perhaps I will see you there. It would be my first attendance as well -- I am a little bit curious and have no idea what to expect. Though I'll have to hurry up and read Lavinia -- been meaning to ever since I read The Aeneid for the first time last October. Bronze Age Italy, with "the Helen that never speaks" as the principal character? How could I miss it?

[AimusSage]

Thank you, my friend! It is a real art form, you know, putting in links to articles relative to the subject at hand, a subject in which I am deeply interested. And hey, if I happened to write these articles... :)
No need to be passive aggressive, I just noticed it, and yes it is relevant, so I didn't mind, hence the smile at the end rather than an angry one.

[Abras]

I didn't mean to sound passive aggressive. I actually found your comment funny -- as if you were catching me on a sneaky move. I like to think I'm a fox, but I'm really more like an elephant.

But not to derail this thread too far, I hope we can leave it at that, as friends.

[AimusSage]

sure, absolutely, and marcus aurelius is a fascinating character from history, no doubt about that, one of the last strong emperors and all that. :)

[jet.thursday]

i've read this book, not the whole but some of its chapters..
it is a real good book and it has become one of my favorites.
i wanted to have one, 'cause i just borrowed it from a friend.
i appreciate it so much, a collection of ideas and truth in particular.


Do not then consider life a thing of any value.
For look at the immensity of time behind you, and to the time which is before you,
another boundless space.
In this infinity then
what is the difference between him who lives three days
and him who lives three generations?

:)

[Lote-Tree]

Anyone read Marcus Aurelius's Meditations? I'm starting in on this book and have greatly enjoyed it. The stoic philosophy, if nothing else, is peaceful and seeks an honest balance of inner strength & individuality along with the practical sense to know that we all must just get on with small, sometimes trivial necessities of day-to-day tasks.

Anyway, if anyone would like to post on Grandpa Marcus, as I've taken to calling him, or on Roman stoicism in general, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I have a bit of background in the subject, but not much, honestly.

Yes. I read him during my angsty years...and was calming.

But I prefer and practice "real" Meditations now... :-)