Why there were never feminine philosophers?

[blazeofglory]

I have read several books of philosophy and many articles as well on it but I have not ac across examples of any woman being philosophers. Of course in the past they were suppressed and Christian popes or clergies were all set against women's sanctity. Even Aristotle had a grim view of womanhood. In the east also there were biases against women particularly in the works of Manu in his the "laws of Manu". Tulasi Das, a great spiritual poet who has shaped Indian thought said- women must be deliberately treated very harshly or else they are likely to go astray.

These were opinions of the past but now also we have no women rising to the status of philosopher. Of course there are women professors of philosophy but we have no any popular philosopher that rank with Aristotle, Descartes, Berkley, Kant, Nietzsche, Hegel, Marx, Russell and the like.

Of course this pinpointing woman may be hoarse on womanhood but I have no gender-biased attitude. But I have just a bunch of curiosities and I want to illuminate myself rather than to be harshly vociferous on the issue. Since here on the forum I have plenty of liberal friends who love knowledge and are open to discussions, I feel like sharing this view and seeking their opinions or objections against this view. I am not a diehard and self-opinionated individual. I am a liberal and love argumentation.

I am taking special interest in philosophy these days. I am just at the bottom of it. Maybe I have yet to acquaint myself with many great modern feminine philosophers. This is not an underrating of femininity and I hope any females here will not feel held in low esteem at all

[The Atheist]

I have read several books of philosophy and many articles as well on it but I have not ac across examples of any woman being philosophers.

You can't have looked too hard then. From Ayn Rand to Simone de Beauvoir, there have been quite a few.

Here's more detail (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/ten-great-female-philosophers-the-thinking-womans-women-498733.html), because the question has been asked before.


Even Aristotle had a grim view of womanhood.

And quite right too!

We gave them the vote, and look where that's got us.


These were opinions of the past but now also we have no women rising to the status of philosopher. Of course there are women professors of philosophy but we have no any popular philosopher that rank with Aristotle, Descartes, Berkley, Kant, Nietzsche, Hegel, Marx, Russell and the like.

You could say the same for women scientists - name one apart from Marie Curie - and many other occupations. They have been held back a little, but I'm sure they'll catch up.

Of course, it could be that they spend so long gossiping that they'll never complete a psych degree.

:D

[blazeofglory]

From Ayn Rand to Simone de Beauvoir

:D

Ah! These are two who were mildly taken as thinkers. And to raise themselves to the height of philosopher they had yet to do more. They were minor philosophers but never could rank themselves with the ones I have said.
To quote from the article in the Independent titled- Ten great female philosophers: For most of history, the groundbreaking philosophers have all been men, and philosophy has always been a male genre. Women had neither the education nor the time to pursue the life of the mind. In modern times, especially in the past 200 years, women have made immense cultural contributions - but much more to literature and the arts than to philosophy

[JuniperWoolf]

Women have had to fight tooth-and-nail just to be qualified as "human." Of course there aren't going to be any female Nietzsches when you're physically forced into a role that basically ensures that the most challenging part of your day is cross-stitching. Female energy has historically been directed towards obtaining our most basic liberties, I guess we just haven't had time to fully revolutionize humanity's basic thought patterns (yet). When you say that you can't think of any female pholosophers, I'm assuming that you aren't including feminists?


You could say the same for women scientists - name one apart from Marie Curie

You're forgetting Jane Goodall. Also, besides Einstein and maybe Newton, how many male scientists can the average history/science layman name?


Ah! These are two who were mildly taken as thinkers. And to raise themselves to the height of philosopher they had yet to do more. They were minor philosophers but never could rank themselves with the ones I have said.

Wow, really? Just because pop culture (which by the way is controlled mostly by men) hasn't given Simone de Beauvoir as much air time as Descartes (and again I say "yet") you're saying that she's a "mild" thinker? What system are we using to qualify this, personal preference? Some asinine list of rank? How many times he/she has been spoofed on The Simpsons? You're going to have to specify.

[blazeofglory]

Women have had to fight tooth-and-nail just to be qualified as "human." Of course there aren't going to be any female Nietzsches when you're physically forced into a role that basically ensures that the most challenging part of your day is cross-stitching. Female energy has historically been directed towards obtaining our most basic liberties, I guess we just haven't had time to fully revolutionize humanity's basic thought patterns (yet). When you say that you can't think of any female pholosophers, I'm assuming that you aren't including feminists?



You're forgetting Jane Goodall. Also, besides Einstein and maybe Newton, how many male scientists can the average history/science layman name?



Wow, really? Just because pop culture (which by the way is controlled mostly by men) hasn't given Simone de Beauvoir as much air time as Descartes (and again I say "yet") you're saying that she's a "mild" thinker? What system are we using to qualify this, personal preference? Some asinine list of rank? How many times he/she has been spoofed on The Simpsons? You're going to have to specify.
In fact Dame Valerie Jane Morris Goodall was a primatologist not a philosopher. Maybe why they could not make to the world of philosophy was they had little time for study and man primordially had more time and with his muscle and power could have subdued their counterpart women and forced them to be subserviently subhuman. Maybe history never have never been in the favor of the soft-sexes.

[JuniperWoolf]

In fact Dame Valerie Jane Morris Goodall was a primatologist not a philosopher. Maybe why they could not make to the world of philosophy was they had little time for study and man primordially had more time and with his muscle and power could have subdued their counterpart women and forced them to be subserviently subhuman. Maybe history never have never been in the favor of the soft-sexes.

1. My Jane Goodall post was in response to The Atheist's post.

2. I don't think that women are in any way the "soft" sex. I actually find that term offensive.

3. There's no "maybe" involved. Women were forced into subservience. It's pretty hard to be an intellectual when you're not allowed into schools (plus even if you did somehow learn to read and write, anything that you put down is immediately discredited and thrown away because you just so happen to have a vagina). It's not because men are inherantly "better" or "smarter" that you see more male philosophers, writers and scientists throughout the past; it's merely that through millions of years of competing with one another over the right to reproduce males have developed a stronger muscular system which they've used to gain control and opress women who, because they are the child-bearers of our species and care for the young, haven't had to compete for mates and therefore haven't been selected for in terms of their physical strength. You're making the same mistake that people make when they infer that whites are inherantly superior to blacks because it's reflected in the number of white vs black college students. You're not looking at the bigger picture.

[blazeofglory]

1. My Jane Goodall post was in response to The Atheist's post.

2. I don't think that women are in any way the "soft" sex. I actually find that term offensive.

3. There's no "maybe" involved. Women were forced into subservience. It's pretty hard to be an intellectual when you're not allowed into schools (plus even if you did somehow learn to read and write, anything that you put down is immediately discredited and thrown away because you just so happen to have a vagina). It's not because men are inherantly "better" or "smarter" that you see more male philosophers, writers and scientists throughout the past; it's merely that through millions of years of competing with one another over the right to reproduce males have developed a stronger muscular system which they've used to gain control and opress women who, because they are the child-bearers of our species and care for the young, haven't had to compete for mates and therefore haven't been selected for in terms of their physical strength. You're making the same mistake that people make when they infer that whites are inherantly superior to blacks because it's reflected in the number of white vs black college students. You're not looking at the bigger picture.
I have never said women were or are inferior. I just said they are not on the list of great philosophers. I have not undervalued them. You have mistaken me

[JuniperWoolf]

I have never said women were or are inferior. I just said they are not on the list of great philosophers. I have not undervalued them. You have mistaken me

Nah, you asked why there aren't as many female philosophers right in the title of the thread, and I answered your question.

[jadrianne]

read Schopenhauer's opinions concerning women.

If one of the greatest philosophers that ever lived thought what he said about women we shouldn't be so surprised that women's opinions never mattered especially concerning philosophy.

[mal4mac]

Hypatia is an early example of a female philosopher. She was killed by a Christian mob, and it's been mob rule ever since, which has made it difficult for females to get a look in. The Christian mob have never forgiven Eve...

[JuniperWoolf]

Hypatia is an early example of a female philosopher. She was killed by a Christian mob, and it's been mob rule ever since, which has made it difficult for females to get a look in. The Christian mob have never forgiven Eve...

The christian mob invented Eve.

[MarkBastable]

Maybe it's because philosophy is what you do when you're sitting round waiting for someone else to put the dinner on the table, and until recently it was women who put the dinner on the table. Maybe now that dinner preparation is a more distributed task, more women will have the time to sit around wondering where dinner comes from.

[The Atheist]

Maybe it's because philosophy is what you do when you're sitting round waiting for someone else to put the dinner on the table, and until recently it was women who put the dinner on the table. Maybe now that dinner preparation is a more distributed task, more women will have the time to sit around wondering where dinner comes from.

Is it time for me to mention the disparity of numbers between male and female chefs at Michelin-starred restaurants?

[OrphanPip]

Another of the older examples is Mary Wollstonecraft, who sparred constantly with Edmund Burke in the papers of the day.

Judith Butler and Martha Nussbaum are two of the biggest names in contemporary philosophy. Not as widely read as Peter Singer, likely the best known living philosopher, but both are very widely read.

I think if we look at the number of women philosophers since women's lib their contribution has been just as significant as that of men.

Edit: I'm glad to see Anscombe on that list, I've found her writing very engaging, if not a bit driven by Christian bias.

[jewels-juls]

I have just read your thread. Unfortunatly your question cannot be attempted to be answered without deconstructing the question you have posed in itself. You ask why are there no or few female philosophers? What i would have liked you to ask is what is philosophy? Ofcourse there are many great discourses from men such as Aristotle up to Satre but there are many great discourses from women such as Beauvoir and Irigary.
What makes one a philosopy and one a discourse?
There are some great philosphical ideas in many novels aswell.
What do you define as a philospher? philosophy?
lastly i don not think it was because women were too busy at the kitchen sink though i expect many were but i expect others were washing up whilst contemplating philosophical questions.

what is philosophy and what defines a philosopher?

[blazeofglory]

I never meant to hurt the sentiment of women, and I revere the womanishness in them, for they are equally and at times more powerful entities of procreation or else the world would have been man-less and of course woman-less too. I have just an inkling and never to scoff at them. However we should not ignore the fact that speaking historically and also mythological, theologically they were sidelined and that is why they could not shine notwithstanding the fact that they are outshining men now. I have never anything in mind to belittle them, and therefore I do not think anything needs to be deconstructed

[jewels-juls]

I never meant to hurt the sentiment of women, and I revere the womanishness in them, for they are equally and at times more powerful entities of procreation or else the world would have been man-less and of course woman-less too. I have just an inkling and never to scoff at them. However we should not ignore the fact that speaking historically and also mythological, theologically they were sidelined and that is why they could not shine notwithstanding the fact that they are outshining men now. I have never anything in mind to belittle them, and therefore I do not think anything needs to be deconstructed

You have no question therefore you will never get your answer. the problem is your hypothesis its two tailed and your method of research is clearly too rigid if i were you i would reassess the paradigm.
good luck anyway

[blazeofglory]

I really feel apologetic and did not want to hurt the sentiment of you in particular and of the world of femininity in general by this undesired predicament

[keilj]

according to Voltaire: "Ideas are like beards; women and young men have none"

I disagree of course. Frankenstein was a quite philosophical book. Joni Mitchell is a great poet/philosopher

but I agree with the opening post - there does seem to be few notably impactful women specifically in the area of philosophy

[Katy North]

I agree with Juniper... there are probably few prominent women philosophers because we were too busy being oppressed for the past few thousand years...

Just give us a chance, 'kay? :hurray:

[Scheherazade]

I really feel apologetic and did not want to hurt the sentiment of you in particular and of the world of femininity in general by this undesired predicament Please don't apologise, Blaze. I know where you are coming from.

I think the main reason is that women lack the mental capacity to conduct deep analytical thinking and have the attention span of a... well, woman.

How can they become philosophers????

Now, if you excuse me, I will go back to the kitchen to do the dishes and make some tea.

[Michael T]

Please don't apologise, Blaze. I know where you are coming from.

I think the main reason is that women lack the mental capacity to conduct deep analytical thinking and have the attention span of a... well, woman.

How can they become philosophers????

Now, if you excuse me, I will go back to the kitchen to do the dishes and make some tea.

Wow Scher, for a woman you’re so insightful and honest! It’s a real breath of fresh air from our resident goddess in the kitchen! :iagree: :p

P.S. I have some ironing if you are free later. ;)

[Scheherazade]

Wow Scher, for a woman you’re so insightful and honest! Oh, it comes and goes. Cannot be relied upon.
P.S. I have some ironing if you are free later. ;)Michael, stop teasing me!

I simply love ironing!


And I was thinking of the title of the thread as well: "Why there were never feminine philosophers?"

How do we know how masculine or feminine all those philosophers were? How do we know that Kant did not curl his hair or wear floral dresses at weekends? Or that Plato or Descartes did not pluck their eyebrows and/or spend hours looking at the glossy magazines of their times???

[Nietzsche]

She's not liked by many, but Ayn Rand is a female philosopher. Here is a list of others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_philosophers
Granted other than AYn Rand, i've not heard of any of those people.

I think a large part of it is the fact that ancient, medieval, and early modern academia were controlled by me; For a large part of history women were denied education , meaning, they were never professors at universities like many philosophers were. but, also, I think female writers are more inclined to poetry or fiction. Which isn't a bad thing, by any means, nor should it limit women from being philosophers. Many famous female poets such as Emily Dickenson, had philosophical undertones to their poetry. Emily was considered a Transcendentalist alongside Emerson, etc. Transcendentalism's philosophical undertones have influence from Kant, Schopenhauer, John Locke, and other English Romantics and German idealists. It's firmly rooted in Kant's transcendental idealism.

I hope that list helps as well as some background info on the aesthetic school Dickenson is said to belong to. Of course, she never stated she was a transcendentalist, but she held Emerson in high regard and her poems have that transcendentalist feel to them that has led scholars to classify her as such.

[MarkBastable]

.

I think a large part of it is the fact that ancient, medieval, and early modern academia were controlled by me;

In which case, you should be ashamed of yourself. Though, on the other hand, you're looking good on it.

[Michael T]

Hmm… Good point Scher, especially when you consider that neither Kant nor Descartes were ever really linked to any relationships with the opposite sex and Plato would have definitely been up for, and indulged in a bit of man-love in those ancient Athens symposiums! Or perhaps it was the lack of a frivolous woman fussing and flittering around their coat tails moaning about shopping that allowed them the time to think so deeply? Either way I do wonder what incredible advances could have been made in the field of western philosophy if all the great thinkers of the world had the good fortune of knowing a woman with a passion for doing their ironing! If only!!! *Sigh*

[Revolte]

Emma Goldman.

I also have a book, burried in my others, writen by feminists on feminism. I havnt read it yet but I would assume to find plenty of feminine philosophers in it.

[paperleaves]

Ayn Rand and Mary Wollstonecraft.

Two very influential philosophers. :)

[caddy_caddy]

Well :iagree:
Maybe women philosophise in their own way .
And a woman has the ability to transform any mediocre man into a great philosopher once he loves her .
It is enough ; isn't it ??!!!!

[blazeofglory]

Well :iagree:
Maybe women philosophise in their own way .
And a woman has the ability to transform any mediocre man into a great philosopher once he loves her .
It is enough ; isn't it ??!!!!

You have hit it! Caddy! From that standpoint woman has got her cup of tea. No matter whether or not she is an academic philosopher. Of course she knows the philosophy of love and that could transform any man so easily. She can mold or twist the one she wants to.

[MUMUKSHA]

I have just read your thread. Unfortunatly your question cannot be attempted to be answered without deconstructing the question you have posed in itself. You ask why are there no or few female philosophers? What i would have liked you to ask is what is philosophy? Ofcourse there are many great discourses from men such as Aristotle up to Satre but there are many great discourses from women such as Beauvoir and Irigary.
What makes one a philosopy and one a discourse?
There are some great philosphical ideas in many novels aswell.
What do you define as a philospher? philosophy?
lastly i don not think it was because women were too busy at the kitchen sink though i expect many were but i expect others were washing up whilst contemplating philosophical questions.

what is philosophy and what defines a philosopher?

Exactly. And the problem is that not just philosophy but all other genres are already set as defined by a masculine perspective. In fact the very language we use, the rules by which it comes to mean what it does, has come to be created by a process in which women were hardly given a role to play. So, what men would or would not consider significant enough to be philosophy is very different from what women would.
Moreover, the fact that women have not created much philosophical literature does not mean they did not reflect upon the meaning of life or existence or other matters that have a profound or austere aura. They just never got to say what they had concluded from their philosophical musings. And how could they when their opinions, even on smaller, insignificant issues were mostly brushed aside by men without even considering them at all.
Then again as Virginia Woolf said that to be able to write as men do, that is effectively using language with confidence so as to put their ideas across creating the desired impact, a woman needs a secure income and a room of her own. Which comes to mean that she needed something like the power the man had. So it was only after being liberated from the shackles of patriarchy that she could voice her opinions in an effective way. Now with women being able to wield a little bit of that power, she is not just 'musing' but 'doing' philosophy.

[blazeofglory]

The idea turns up: women were not privileged the way men were. That entails the fact that empowerment is crucial so that women can turn up to outwit their counterpart males. Of course there is an outcry on a global level for reasserting women's rights. There are indeed women activists who voice against male chauvinisms. But this is a history only nothing considerable done to perk up the lot of women. Females plead or protest in order that their rights are given, but who will choose to give by empting himself? Muscle powers speak up for males. Women must assemble and muster their scattered energies and fight.

That is why there has been a historic gap between what it means being a male or female.. Nature has not given her sparingly

[dizzydoll]

And you forget, from the beginning of time, women do more work than men. lol, so she doesnt have as much leisure time. lol. I couldnt resist. have a nice day. :leaving:

[blazeofglory]

Yes they had more time for their family and of course they must have some for themselves so that they can press ahead and get better their opposite sexes