March '10 Reading: Steppenwolf by Hesse

[Scheherazade]

In March we will be reading Steppenwolf by Hesse.

Please post your comments and questions in this thread.

[Virgil]

:hurray::hurray: Yay! I will try to pick up the book sometime this week and start on the weekend.

[Dark Muse]

Yay, I am glad this one won. I look forward to reading it.

[TheFifthElement]

Excellent! Ive just started reading Kokoro by Natsume Soseki which is on loan from the library so I need to finish that first, but I'll certainly be picking up Steppenwolf next. Yippee!

[Paulclem]

I'm halfway through and really enjoying it. I'm glad it won.

[Dark Muse]

I just started reading, and already of course I am in love with the narrator and I just love Hesse's prose work. It always sucks me right from the start. I was immediately engaged in the book as soon as I started and cannot wait to read more.

[applepie]

I'm going to work on getting a copy. The lirary or the book store, I'm not too sure which;)

[Paulclem]

Shall I talk all on my lonesome about the book whilst you're all trying to catch up?

Nah.. I wouldn't do that. :D

[Dark Muse]

I have to say I thought the whole concept of the Steppenwolf as presented within the Treatise On The Steppenwolf, was quite brilliant, and of course just the sort of thing that would be right up my alley.

It is almost a sort of psychology lycanthropy, and it reminds me of the idea of certain shamanistic cultures who believed that we all have two souls, one human and one animal. And some believed in a literally, physical transformation, as in shape-changing, there were others who did believe in a much more spiritual transformation.

Also though I do not consider myself to be a suicide of any definition or type, with my own macabre romanticism regarding death, I found that discussion about the Steppenwolf's nearness to death, and the idea of seeing death as an escape and release to be quite fascinating.

[Paulclem]

I have to say I thought the whole concept of the Steppenwolf as presented within the Treatise On The Steppenwolf, was quite brilliant, and of course just the sort of thing that would be right up my alley.

It is almost a sort of psychology lycanthropy, and it reminds me of the idea of certain shamanistic cultures who believed that we all have two souls, one human and one animal. And some believed in a literally, physical transformation, as in shape-changing, there were others who did believe in a much more spiritual transformation.

Also though I do not consider myself to be a suicide of any definition or type, with my own macabre romanticism regarding death, I found that discussion about the Steppenwolf's nearness to death, and the idea of seeing death as an escape and release to be quite fascinating.

He returns to the idea of suicide later on too.

On the idea of the steppenwolf dichotomy, the treatise does say that it is a simplification, and that in reality an individual has many minds. I think this refers to Hesse's contact with Asian religions, especially Buddhism, which abides by such concepts. Haller himself later refers to discussions he had with an academic of Asian studies who discussed Hinduism and Krishna. Haller says that he has done with Hinduism, as Hesse did in real life with Hinduism and Buddhism, but I think the ideas and methods still affected Hesse.

I started The glass Bead game before this oportunity came up, and in it Hesse describes an academic elite who form a kind of monastic caste dedicated to learning. In this book he seemed to have combined Asian religious concepts and methods - such as meditation - with the academic strigency of the West.

I was fascinated by the Steppenwolf treatise too, and I'll be looking it over again.

[Dark Muse]

He returns to the idea of suicide later on too.

On the idea of the steppenwolf dichotomy, the treatise does say that it is a simplification, and that in reality an individual has many minds. I think this refers to Hesse's contact with Asian religions, especially Buddhism, which abides by such concepts. Haller himself later refers to discussions he had with an academic of Asian studies who discussed Hinduism and Krishna. Haller says that he has done with Hinduism, as Hesse did in real life with Hinduism and Buddhism, but I think the ideas and methods still affected Hesse.
I was fascinated by the Steppenwolf treatise too, and I'll be looking it over again.

The Asian influence is an interesting one, and perhaps very likely given Hesse's study of Asian culture and spirituality, I know he was quite interested in that subject, and years ago I read Siddhartha, which was a brilliant book.

But I thought perhaps there may have been some Shamnistic influence in the Stepphenwolf idea because Steppenwolf is a German word that literally means "wolf of the steppes" and Shamanism does have origins in Germany.

I have always had a morbid fascination with suicide, I always find it an interesting subject within literature, perhaps because of my own views relating to death, though I don't have any actual desire for immediate death or notions of taking my own life.

[Paulclem]

The Asian influence is an interesting one, and perhaps very likely given Hesse's study of Asian culture and spirituality, I know he was quite interested in that subject, and years ago I read Siddhartha, which was a brilliant book.

But I thought perhaps there may have been some Shamnistic influence in the Stepphenwolf idea because Steppenwolf is a German word that literally means "wolf of the steppes" and Shamanism does have origins in Germany.

I have always had a morbid fascination with suicide, I always find it an interesting subject within literature, perhaps because of my own views relating to death, though I don't have any actual desire for immediate death or notions of taking my own life.

Yes, I know the wolf is a powerful cultural image for Germany/ the Germanic region. They used it a lot in WW2 with the Wolf pack U-Boats etc. I suppose the question is, how is the idea of the wolf implicit on Haller's place in society and his actions. He is certainly a loner, in a social and intellectual sense.

[Dark Muse]

Yes, I know the wolf is a powerful cultural image for Germany/ the Germanic region. They used it a lot in WW2 with the Wolf pack U-Boats etc. I suppose the question is, how is the idea of the wolf implicit on Haller's place in society and his actions. He is certainly a loner, in a social and intellectual sense.

Yes, though curiously enough being a loner is actually contradictory to the wolf association, who are highly socialized animals. I will have to wait until I read further to better come up with an answer as to the significance of the wolf imagery in particular, as within the Treatise it does suggest that it doesn't have to be wolf, as it speaks of those whom have fish, or foxes and such within them, though the wolf idea is the one being focused upon.

It is one of the reasons why the idea of lyanthrophy cannot help but come into mind, because this portrayal of the Steppenwolf, does seem to more closely reflect ideas of werewolf lore, than natural wolves.

[Paulclem]

Yes, though curiously enough being a loner is actually contradictory to the wolf association, who are highly socialized animals. I will have to wait until I read further to better come up with an answer as to the significance of the wolf imagery in particular, as within the Treatise it does suggest that it doesn't have to be wolf, as it speaks of those whom have fish, or foxes and such within them, though the wolf idea is the one being focused upon.

It is one of the reasons why the idea of lyanthrophy cannot help but come into mind, because this portrayal of the Steppenwolf, does seem to more closely reflect ideas of werewolf lore, than natural wolves.

You may be right. I'm at a place where Haller's Steppenwolf-ness is being broken down by Hermine, an acquaintance he meets. She too declares this nature within herself, though it is less obvious than Haller's.

[Virgil]

I just bought the book today!! :banana:Hopefully I'll start reading this weekend.

[applepie]

I picked my copy up from the library yesterday. Hopefully I'll start reading today sometime.

[Dark Muse]

He returns to the idea of suicide later on too.

On the idea of the steppenwolf dichotomy, the treatise does say that it is a simplification, and that in reality an individual has many minds. I think this refers to Hesse's contact with Asian religions, especially Buddhism, which abides by such concepts. Haller himself later refers to discussions he had with an academic of Asian studies who discussed Hinduism and Krishna. Haller says that he has done with Hinduism, as Hesse did in real life with Hinduism and Buddhism, but I think the ideas and methods still affected Hesse.

I have just read the part where it talks of the multiple individualities of man, and speaks directly about the Asian influences and concepts upon this sort of multiple personality of men, and the countless number of "souls" or "individuals" which inhibit one body.

It was all quite fascinating, though it did make me wonder as to just what the book is then trying to convey. If the whole concept of the Steppenwolf it itself nothing but an illusion, or a lie, and if in fact in truth Harry is not really split between man and wolf, for he is made of countless parts, than just what is the purpose behind the telling of this story?

For the Steppenwolf seems then in contradiction to the truth of the unlimited selves. It seems to me thus far, that Harry, and those like him, have an awareness enough above others, to know that they are more than just a man, or a single man, and yet they cannot comprehend the full scope of the truth, and so they become limited into feeling divided into two different parts.

The use of the wolf in particular in this idea as the personification as one of the many possible identities of man, I do think is a refection of Western influence and the importance of the Wolf in German, and European culture in general and what the wolf has come to symbolize and the fact both physically as well as spiritually wolves have a long history of being linked to man.

[Paulclem]

I have just read the part where it talks of the multiple individualities of man, and speaks directly about the Asian influences and concepts upon this sort of multiple personality of men, and the countless number of "souls" or "individuals" which inhibit one body.

It was all quite fascinating, though it did make me wonder as to just what the book is then trying to convey. If the whole concept of the Steppenwolf it itself nothing but an illusion, or a lie, and if in fact in truth Harry is not really split between man and wolf, for he is made of countless parts, than just what is the purpose behind the telling of this story?

For the Steppenwolf seems then in contradiction to the truth of the unlimited selves. It seems to me thus far, that Harry, and those like him, have an awareness enough above others, to know that they are more than just a man, or a single man, and yet they cannot comprehend the full scope of the truth, and so they become limited into feeling divided into two different parts.

The use of the wolf in particular in this idea as the personification as one of the many possible identities of man, I do think is a refection of Western influence and the importance of the Wolf in German, and European culture in general and what the wolf has come to symbolize and the fact both physically as well as spiritually wolves have a long history of being linked to man.

Do you think that the social wolf aspect of Haller is being compromised by his conception of himself as a Steppenwolf - a more lonely figure? I've read on further, and Hermine, whom he meets later, does take him out of himself, and introduces him to a more bohemian style of life.

In Hesse's introduction, he talks of healing in the book, which has been misconstrued by readers. I can see why the themes in the book would appeal to 60s bohemian types - different from the common run, hating the bourgeois, intellectual, but with free love and an uncommitted lifestyle, as both Hermine and Haller currently have.

[Dark Muse]

I cannot help but to notice some curious parallels between Steppenwolf and Sidhartha as I am reading the book. It seems in very different ways Hesse is dealing and struggling with some of the same issues.

The way in which the Steppenwolf is cast out from society, ostracized by his own family, and left an outcast in every way, reminds me of Siddhartha's own rejection of his family name and wealth to go upon his quest to obtain a deeper meaning and understanding and try and discover the "truth"

While with Siddhartha it was much more of an active and conscious choice, while for the Steppenwolf it seems more something that happens to him of which he does not have a choice in. It is interesting that it says that each time the Steppenwolf is exiled there comes with it a gain in more depth, and some deeper spiritual meaning, yet there is also an increase in loneliness.

I also cannot help but to notice there seems to be a strong bitterness towards the bourgeoisie within the books. Is this because of their materialism? The fact that they are so "blind" to the deeper understanding and meaning, and are concerned with their own illiusional realities, the fact that they cannot see past their own lives and thus do not see the greater human suffering?

Both Sidhartha and Steppenwolf seem to be strongly concerned with ideas relating to human suffering, while Siddhartha goes on a quest to find a spiritual path to try and alleviate human suffering, the Steppenwolf is unable to find peace. He seems tortured, trapped between two different worlds.

He cannot be content in the bourgeoisie any longer, and is not accepted among them, because he has had a glimmer of the truth, and a touch of deeper awareness that sets him apart, and keeps him from being content with bourgeoisie luxuries, yet at the same time because he still cannot see the full scope of the truth, and feels divided within himself, he still longs for those bourgeoisie things which fail to truly fulfill him or give him pleasure.

[Paulclem]

I cannot help but to notice some curious parallels between Steppenwolf and Sidhartha as I am reading the book. It seems in very different ways Hesse is dealing and struggling with some of the same issues.

The way in which the Steppenwolf is cast out from society, ostracized by his own family, and left an outcast in every way, reminds me of Siddhartha's own rejection of his family name and wealth to go upon his quest to obtain a deeper meaning and understanding and try and discover the "truth"

While with Siddhartha it was much more of an active and conscious choice, while for the Steppenwolf it seems more something that happens to him of which he does not have a choice in. It is interesting that it says that each time the Steppenwolf is exiled there comes with it a gain in more depth, and some deeper spiritual meaning, yet there is also an increase in loneliness.

I also cannot help but to notice there seems to be a strong bitterness towards the bourgeoisie within the books. Is this because of their materialism? The fact that they are so "blind" to the deeper understanding and meaning, and are concerned with their own illiusional realities, the fact that they cannot see past their own lives and thus do not see the greater human suffering?

Both Sidhartha and Steppenwolf seem to be strongly concerned with ideas relating to human suffering, while Siddhartha goes on a quest to find a spiritual path to try and alleviate human suffering, the Steppenwolf is unable to find peace. He seems tortured, trapped between two different worlds.

He cannot be content in the bourgeoisie any longer, and is not accepted among them, because he has had a glimmer of the truth, and a touch of deeper awareness that sets him apart, and keeps him from being content with bourgeoisie luxuries, yet at the same time because he still cannot see the full scope of the truth, and feels divided within himself, he still longs for those bourgeoisie things which fail to truly fulfill him or give him pleasure.

Yes, I'd agree with that. Siddhartha. Steppenwolf and The Glass Bead Game - which I have started, but stopped in order to read this - are concerned with outsiders. I think ther's a bit of Nietzche - in there too, though I am only broadly aware of his idea of the superman.

In the Glass bead game the start is about an academic elite that have adopted an almost monastic lifestyle - so he is exploring the idea of an outsider and how they could be accommodated within society. They dedicate themselves to academia - much like celibate monks. (I'm looking forward to going back to the Glass Bead Game after this - it is fascinating).

Siddhartha is an elective outsider - a bit like The Buddha - who left house and home and family. The Steppenwolf seems to have acepted his lot as an outsider. He can't seem to stomach a bourgeois lifestyle, though he does have a fondness for them as he says in the beginning.

The Bohemianism also comes through, and this has a touch if the Nietzchean superman in it as there are drugs, free love and a hedonistic lifestyle involved. There isn't much judgement, just the constant awareness by the \Steppenwolf - even as he is throwing himself into the lifestyle, that it is hollow, and that his calling is deeper.

[Jazz_]

Just started today, it's already interesting and enjoyable - glad it won :D

[Virgil]

I started today too. I read the preface. It is interesting. But did that Preface narrator just give us all the themes up front? Seems like he explained it all. ;) Also, yikes - there are no chapters after the preface.

[Dark Muse]

I started today too. I read the preface. It is interesting. But did that Preface narrator just give us all the themes up front? Seems like he explained it all. ;) Also, yikes - there are no chapters after the preface.

I did not even read the Preface. Yeah, books that do not have any chapters, or other convenient stopping points can be a bit difficult. Also I am usually not a huge fan of books with paragraphs that last like an entire page or two long. Though I am still loving this book and completely fascinated.

[the facade]

Hey, I'm new here and I was very content to see that this book was chosen as it happens to be the one I'm currently reading.

So far it's amazing. Will get back to you guys once I'm finished!

[Paulclem]

Tha narrative stye is interesting in that Hesse validates the narrator through Haller himself, which is unlike the unreliable narrator in The Turn of the Screw for example.

He is painted as such a solid and perhaps narrow minded young man that he couldn't possibly have made it up.

[applepie]

I started today too. I read the preface. It is interesting. But did that Preface narrator just give us all the themes up front? Seems like he explained it all. ;) Also, yikes - there are no chapters after the preface.

My copy had an intro by the author that I read. It was pretty interesting. He specifically said that most people don't really get the message of the book. He wouldn't reveal what it was, but Hesse went on to talk about people seeing the story in an entirely different light than what he meant.

[Dark Muse]

I do not know much about Hesse's personal life, I have a bio on him floating around here somewhere but have yet to pick it up and read, but with all the references to Asian and Eastern studies and research that are mentioned within Steppenwolf, do you think that Hesse saw something of himself in Haller?

[Virgil]

I did not even read the Preface. Yeah, books that do not have any chapters, or other convenient stopping points can be a bit difficult. Also I am usually not a huge fan of books with paragraphs that last like an entire page or two long. Though I am still loving this book and completely fascinated.
Oh I know what you mean about the typical Preface. This is not a typical preface, but part of the novel. You need to go back and read it.


My copy had an intro by the author that I read. It was pretty interesting. He specifically said that most people don't really get the message of the book. He wouldn't reveal what it was, but Hesse went on to talk about people seeing the story in an entirely different light than what he meant.
Yes, mine did too. I thought that was interesting. That's not the preface i mean, by the way. That's the author's introduction.

[Dark Muse]

Oh I know what you mean about the typical Preface. This is not a typical preface, but part of the novel. You need to go back and read it.

Well after what you said, I think I rather wait until I get to the end before reading the preface. I don't think I want it all spilled out to me up fornt. I am enjoying the epxerirence of it.

[Virgil]

Well after what you said, I think I rather wait until I get to the end before reading the preface. I don't think I want it all spilled out to me up fornt. I am enjoying the epxerirence of it.

Ok, but I assume Hesse wanted people to read that first. I guess you're so far along it doesn't make a difference at this point. :wink5:

[Dark Muse]

Ok, but I assume Hesse wanted people to read that first. I guess you're so far along it doesn't make a difference at this point. :wink5:

Perhaps he did, but thus far I am not finding myself at a disavantage for not having done so.

[TheFifthElement]

Yeay! I started reading last night. So far very good (as an aside, I'd very much recommend Kokoro by Natsume Soseki, very good).


Perhaps he did, but thus far I am not finding myself at a disavantage for not having done so.
How do you know if you haven't read it ;)

Like Virgil said, it's part of the story. If you missed it out then you've effectively started reading at chapter 2.

[Paulclem]

I do not know much about Hesse's personal life, I have a bio on him floating around here somewhere but have yet to pick it up and read, but with all the references to Asian and Eastern studies and research that are mentioned within Steppenwolf, do you think that Hesse saw something of himself in Haller?

I think he did. I've just read a potted bio here:

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1946/hesse-autobio.html

and the main themes - pacifism, the problems with nationalism in Germany, eastern studies, living alone after divorce - are mentioned.

It seems as if there is a lot of his experience in the novel.

[applepie]

Yes, mine did too. I thought that was interesting. That's not the preface i mean, by the way. That's the author's introduction.

I'm ashamed to say that's as far as I've read in the book. I'll get to it, soon... I think.

[Dark Muse]

Yeay! I started reading last night. So far very good (as an aside, I'd very much recommend Kokoro by Natsume Soseki, very good).


How do you know if you haven't read it ;)

Like Virgil said, it's part of the story. If you missed it out then you've effectively started reading at chapter 2.

Well it has not hampered my understanding of the story, I do not feel completely lost of confused for my lack of reading it.

It is not as if when I started reading I felt like I jumped in the middle of the story and I am missing something vital.

[Dark Muse]

While this book is littered with a wide variety of literary allusions which play an important role within the story, and helping to shape the character of Haller and the ideas of the Steppenwolf and his struggles, it seems there is particular attention given to Goethe.

He is mentioned a few different times throughout the book and there was the episode of the portrait of Goethe which played a key role within the story.

I am not that familiar with all of the works of Goethe and I am curious as to just why he does seem to play such a role within the story, and if any of his works have elements that directly relate to the themes expressed within Steppenwolf and Haller's ideas.

[Paulclem]

While this book is littered with a wide variety of literary allusions which play an important role within the story, and helping to shape the character of Haller and the ideas of the Steppenwolf and his struggles, it seems there is particular attention given to Goethe.

He is mentioned a few different times throughout the book and there was the episode of the portrait of Goethe which played a key role within the story.

I am not that familiar with all of the works of Goethe and I am curious as to just why he does seem to play such a role within the story, and if any of his works have elements that directly relate to the themes expressed within Steppenwolf and Haller's ideas.

I am also unfamiliar with Goethe - except that his version of Faust is superior to Marlowe's by all accounts.

Within the story he is accorded the status of an immortal, like Mozart.

[Dark Muse]

That idea of "the immortals" which comes up often within the story also rather intrigues me.

[Paulclem]

I get the impression that they are metaphorically immortal - he does say it is poetic writing- in the appreciation of what they produced.

As for the preface, I think Hesse sets us up with an expectation that this will be a conventional novel. In fact the narrator - the straight young fellow who spies a bit on Haller- gives us a conventional narrative in the preface. He observes Haller, gives his opinion, and relates the whole story to us up to the departure of Haller. What Haller has written goes far beyond that - it relates the inner poetic story thast is invisible to the bourgeois narrator. So we get two versions - the conventional and the poetic, which are quite different.
:D

[Dark Muse]

I get the impression that they are metaphorically immortal - he does say it is poetic writing- in the appreciation of what they produced.

I wonder are the "immortals" suppose to be fellow Steppenwolves? They do seem to be literary or otherwise artistic types, and interestingly enough, as you mentioned the connection to poetic writing and the immortals, many of the so called immortals are also composers of music which can be seen as a form of poetry.

They are figures were were different, and outside the norms of society, as well as being highly intellectual and/or visionary and seeming to be elevated a step above the rest.

And in Haller's dream with the spirit of Goethe, Goethe speaks of his own constant struggles against death and seems almost regretfully that he had lived for as long as he did, which seems to reflect Haller's own constant struggle against death.

Also didn't Haller express at one point his own desire to become and counted one among the "immortals?"


As for the preface, I think Hesse sets us up with an expectation that this will be a conventional novel. In fact the narrator - the straight young fellow who spies a bit on Haller- gives us a conventional narrative in the preface. He observes Haller, gives his opinion, and relates the whole story to us up to the departure of Haller. What Haller has written goes far beyond that - it relates the inner poetic story thast is invisible to the bourgeois narrator. So we get two versions - the conventional and the poetic, which are quite different.
:D

That is quite an interesting thought. In a way it is like showing the external world vs the internal. And it is interesting to have a brief glimpse of Haller through the eyes of another and the way in which he is perceived and than to go from that to see Haller's own Self-Perception. That is an interesting narrative technique to view the character in two different ways as a way to gain a more complete picture of him by seeing him both through his own eyes, and through the eyes of outsiders.

[Paulclem]

I wonder are the "immortals" suppose to be fellow Steppenwolves? They do seem to be literary or otherwise artistic types, and interestingly enough, as you mentioned the connection to poetic writing and the immortals, many of the so called immortals are also composers of music which can be seen as a form of poetry.

They are figures were were different, and outside the norms of society, as well as being highly intellectual and/or visionary and seeming to be elevated a step above the rest.

And in Haller's dream with the spirit of Goethe, Goethe speaks of his own constant struggles against death and seems almost regretfully that he had lived for as long as he did, which seems to reflect Haller's own constant struggle against death.

Also didn't Haller express at one point his own desire to become and counted one among the "immortals?"



That is quite an interesting thought. In a way it is like showing the external world vs the internal. And it is interesting to have a brief glimpse of Haller through the eyes of another and the way in which he is perceived and than to go from that to see Haller's own Self-Perception. That is an interesting narrative technique to view the character in two different ways as a way to gain a more complete picture of him by seeing him both through his own eyes, and through the eyes of outsiders.

I wondered about this because haller learns to dance later in the book, but the narrator clearly indicates twice that Haller has health problems and difficulty walking.

[Paulclem]

I've just re-read the preface, and it does lay out the life of Haller up to his departure from the apartment he has rented.

It is worth the read, and re-read, as it offers insights into the nature of the ideas in the book.

[Dark Muse]

I am curios about the business regarding the images, primarily the incident of the Goethe portrait, and Haller's reactions to it, and than his conversation with the currently nameless girl in the bar and her own expression about the saints and the savior, and the image she creates in her own mind vs the image that others create of them.

It seems almost like some sort of anti-idolatry sentiment, though not necessarily purely in a religious sense in spite of the example of the religious icons given, but rather as if these "immortals" in spite of the fact that they were in fact living flesh and blood people have transcended beyond having their own images depicted.

Particularly by those with him at least according to the Steppenwolf, who are in fact unworthy of the immortals and unable to truly understand or perhaps fully appreciate just who and what the immortals are/were and only the Steppenwolf might know them and be worthy of them.

[Paulclem]

I am curios about the business regarding the images, primarily the incident of the Goethe portrait, and Haller's reactions to it, and than his conversation with the currently nameless girl in the bar and her own expression about the saints and the savior, and the image she creates in her own mind vs the image that others create of them.

It seems almost like some sort of anti-idolatry sentiment, though not necessarily purely in a religious sense in spite of the example of the religious icons given, but rather as if these "immortals" in spite of the fact that they were in fact living flesh and blood people have transcended beyond having their own images depicted.

Particularly by those with him at least according to the Steppenwolf, who are in fact unworthy of the immortals and unable to truly understand or perhaps fully appreciate just who and what the immortals are/were and only the Steppenwolf might know them and be worthy of them.

Is it perhaps a reference to Plato's cave - that what the bourgeois see are mere shadows of reality, whereas the Steppenwolf perceives their immortal image.

[Dark Muse]

Is it perhaps a reference to Plato's cave - that what the bourgeois see are mere shadows of reality, whereas the Steppenwolf perceives their immortal image.

That is an excellent point, and a very interesting thought. Now that you have brought it up, I can very much see that as applying to the case.

[Virgil]

I’m fifty pages in, and I’m ready to put this to the fifty page test, a reflection of what’s happened and what seem to be the themes and a look back. This does seem like a German opera, dark and reflective of internal tensions, the soul in crises. :lol: The fifty pages seem to be divided into three parts, that preface narrated in the first person of a fellow lodger, Haller’s first person writings of on the nature his life and workings inside his soul, and the written part of a fortune-telling booklet, titled, “The Treatise of the Steppenwolf.” All three are basically going over and over describing Harry Haller as a tortured soul split between a good nature man and a half savage beast who can’t find contentment, and the metaphor for that beastly part of the self as the Steppenwolf, the lone wolf of the Steppes. I think it worth looking at the first several paragraphs of Haller’s writings. Here are the first two, but forgive me if I mistyped; I'm not the best at the qwerty key board. :wink5:


The day had gone by just as days go by. I had killed it in accordance with my primitive and retiring way of life. I had worked for an hour or two and perused the image of old books. I had had pains for two hours, as elderly people do. I had taken a powder and been very glad when the pains consented to disappear. I had lain in a hot bath and absorbed its kindly warmth. Three times the mail had come with undesired letters and circulars to look through. I had done my breathing exercises, but found it convenient today to omit the thought exercises. I had been for an hour’s walk and seen the loveliest feathery cloud patterns penciled against the sky. That was very delightful. So was the reading of the old books. So was the lying in the warm bath. But, taken all in all, it had not been exactly a day of rapture. No, it had not even been a day brightened with happiness and joy. Rather, it had been just one of those days which for a long while now had fallen to my lot; the moderately pleasant, the wholly bearable and tolerable, lukewarm days of a discontented middle-aged man; days without special pains, without special cares, without particular worry, without despair; days when I calmly wonder. objective and fearless, whether it isn’t time to follow the example of Adalbert Stifter and have an accident while shaving.

He who has known the other days, the angry ones of gout attacks, or those with the wicked headache rooted behind the eyeballs that casts a spell for every nerve of eye and ear with a fiendish delight in torture, or soul-destroying, evil days of inward vacancy and despair, when, on this distracted earth, sucked dry by the vampires of finance, the world of men and of so called culture grins back at us with the lying, vulgar, brazen glamor of a Fair and dogs us with the persistence of an emetic, and when all is concentrated and focused to the last pitch of the intolerable upon your own sick self—he who has known these days of hell may be content indeed with normal half-and-half days like today. Thankfully you sit by the warm stove, thankfully you assure yourself as you read your morning paper that another day has come and no war broken out, no new dictatorship has been set up, no particularly disgusting scandle been unveiled in the worlds of politics and finance. Thankfully you tune the strings of your moldering lyre to a moderated, to a passably joyful, nay, to at even delighted psalm of thanksgiving and with it bore your quiet, flabby and slightly stupefied half-and-half god of contentment; and in the thick warm air of a contented boredom and very welcome painlessness the nodding mandarin of a half-and-half god and the nodding middle-aged gentleman who sings his muffled psalm look as like each other as two peas.

Hesse sets up a contrast with these first two paragraphs. The first emphasizes the good natured man and the moments of contentment, albeit short lived. The second emphasizes the other times, the days of “vacancy and despair.” That word “primitive” is curious in the first paragraph. What exactly is his “primitive…way of life?” And in that long first sentence of the second paragraph, Haller lists the two fold causes of his torture: internal pain (gout and headache) and the world of men and culture and the political chaos of the world. And then the next paragraph is rather revealing.


There is much to be said for the contentment and painlessness, for these bearable and submissive days, on which neither pain nor pleasure is audible, but pass by whispering and on tip-toe. But the worst of it is that it is just this contentment that I cannot endure. After a short time it fills me with irrepressible hatred and nausea. In desperation I have to escape and throw myself on the road to pleasure, or, if that cannot be, on the road to pain. When I have neither pleasure nor pain and have been breathing for a while the lukewarm insipid air of these so-called good and tolerable days, I feel so bad in my childish soul that I smash up my moldering lyre of thanksgiving in the face of the slumbering god of contentment and would rather feel the very devil burn in me than his warmth of a well-heated room. A wild longing for strong emotions and sensations seethes in me, a rage against this toneless, flat, normal and sterile life. I have a mad impulse to smash something, a warehouse, perhaps a cathedral, or myself, to commit outrages, to pull off the wigs of a few revered idols, to provide a few rebellious school boys with the longed-for ticket to Hamburg, or to stand one or two representatives of the established order on their heads. For what I always hated and detested and cursed above all things was this contentment, this healthiness and comfort, this carefully preserved optimism of the middle classes, this fat and prosperous brood of mediocrity.

So the very moments of contentment lead to the dark, wolfish self. This is not a simple dualism of opposing forces. It’s complex. Instead of the two halves faced in opposition, they are sequentially linked. And how then do the internal pain and the outside world of men of the second paragraph fit in? Weren’t they the root causes? So Hesse has set up a rather complicated set of sources for Haller’s alienation, and how these play out are I think the process of development for the novel. Certainly we see through the suggestion of wars and dictatorships and scandals, the outside world is integrated with the alienation. But so is the ennui of life and the internal pain of an aging, suffering human being.

Another motif that seems to jump out at one in these early pages is the religious language. Here are words from the first several paragraphs of Haller’s testimony: thanksgiving, fiendish delight, soul, psalm, cathedral, curse, devil, evil, divine, ablution, heaven, God, holy, spiritual. No question he’s suggesting something. Haller in an early paragraph recounts how once some “lovely old music” brought him back from “the world of wanderings to the living world.” He describes this in the manner of a religious experience, or nearly one:


After two or three notes of the piano the door was opened of a sudden to the other world. I sped through heaven and saw God at work. I suffered holy pains. I dropped all my defenses and was afraid of nothing in the world. I accepted all things and to all things I gave up my heart. It did not last very long, a quarter of an hour perhaps; but it returned to me in a dream at night, and since, through all the barren days, I caught a glimpse of it now and then. Sometimes for a minute of two I saw it clearly, threading my life like a divine and golden track. But nearly always it was blurred in dirt and dust. Then again it gleamed out in golden sparks as though never to be lost again and yet was soon quite lost once more. Once it happened, as I lay awake at night, that I suddenly spoke in verses, in verses so beautiful and strange that I did not venture to think of writing them down, and then in the morning they vanished; and yet they lay hidden within me like the hard kernel within an old brittle husk. Once it came to me while reading a poet, while pondering a thought of Descartes, of Pascal; again it shone out and drove its gold track far into the sky while I was in the presence of my beloved. Ah, but it is hard to find the track of the divine in the midst of this life we lead, in this besotted humdrum age of spiritual blindness, with its architecture, its business, its politics, its men.

So we see another dualism here, moments of internal spirituality set against the modernist (modernism being from the beginning of the century to about world war two) view of the outside world as being stripped of spiritual significance.

So these are the themes and motifs of the first quarter of the novel that I see. While I do find this interesting so far, I can’t say at the moment this is going to be a great novel for me. The characterization is excellent and the themes, though not all that original for its time, are intricately suggested, but hardly any narrative action has occurred, and it’s a quarter of the way through. This has all essentially been expository and descriptive. We have a character and we have some abstract themes, but where’s the story? A quarter of the way through and there’s no story yet. I’m waiting for something to happen, the destabilizing event.

[stlukesguild]

I should really participate in this discussion. Steppenwolf... and a great deal of the rest of Hesse were favorite reads when I first began to explore literature some years ago. Beside... I have a new translation I'm in need of exploring.

[Jazz_]

I should really participate in this discussion. Steppenwolf... and a great deal of the rest of Hesse were favorite reads when I first began to explore literature some years ago. Beside... I have a new translation I'm in need of exploring.

I can see why ;) I haven't read it before and I'm really enjoying it :D

[Paulclem]

The story does take off after a fashion, but the preface seems to be a conventional narrative from a bourgeois narrator. Haller's narrative goes beyong this.

In his introducation, Hesse talks about the neglect of the healing aspect of the novel. I think it is clear to see how disaffected groups - I'm thinking of the 60's movements and onwards with their dislike of the Bourgeois Middle classes tok to this book. I think Virgil's laying out of the themes is an important aspect of the healing that takes place.

[stlukesguild]

Hesse uses the irony of the bourgeois narrator who cannot fully understand... or even misunderstands... his subject in the Glass Bead Game as well.

[Paulclem]

Hesse uses the irony of the bourgeois narrator who cannot fully understand... or even misunderstands... his subject in the Glass Bead Game as well.

I'd just started The Glass Bead Game when this thread came up. I already had Steppenwolf so I reverted to that.

From the first chapter or so it seems as thouh Hesse develops the isolated Steppenwolf character into an intellectual monastic elite and continues the themes. I'm looking forward to it. :D

[Dark Muse]

Harry and Hermine seem almost to be a sort of Anima/Animus to each other. They are like dual aspects of the same self. As Hermine put it, they are like looking glasses to each other, in which they can study their reflections within each other. And just like a looking glass they appear as if opposites from each other, and yet that opposite nature is something that seems to be purely external.

They are still as if part of the same core, the same self, in this way they can understand each other uncannily in spite of the fact that they seem to be opposites from each other in every conceivable or tangible way.

There is also something unavoidably Freudian in their relationship with each other. Though they seem, at least at the start to be primarily platonic, as they both state that neither is in love with the other, Hermine makes her declaration of causing Harry to fall in love with her. Yet at the same time her treatment of him and their interactions with each other are of a clearly and blatantly maternal nature.

[Paulclem]

Harry and Hermine seem almost to be a sort of Anima/Animus to each other. They are like dual aspects of the same self. As Hermine put it, they are like looking glasses to each other, in which they can study their reflections within each other. And just like a looking glass they appear as if opposites from each other, and yet that opposite nature is something that seems to be purely external.

They are still as if part of the same core, the same self, in this way they can understand each other uncannily in spite of the fact that they seem to be opposites from each other in every conceivable or tangible way.

There is also something unavoidably Freudian in their relationship with each other. Though they seem, at least at the start to be primarily platonic, as they both state that neither is in love with the other, Hermine makes her declaration of causing Harry to fall in love with her. Yet at the same time her treatment of him and their interactions with each other are of a clearly and blatantly maternal nature.


It takes another turn later in the book too. I don't want to give anything away, but what appears to be a conventional narrative becomes a different type later. It is only by reflecting back that we realise what Hesse has done.

The key to this, as I pointed out, is the bourgeois narrator's take. I think you can regard him as trustworthy, but uncomprehending. He gives us the actual events without the inner insight of Haller.

[TheFifthElement]

It takes another turn later in the book too. I don't want to give anything away, but what appears to be a conventional narrative becomes a different type later. It is only by reflecting back that we realise what Hesse has done.

The key to this, as I pointed out, is the bourgeois narrator's take. I think you can regard him as trustworthy, but uncomprehending. He gives us the actual events without the inner insight of Haller.

Yes, I agree. I've held off saying anything until I'd finished the book as the deeper you go into the book, the less this seems like a 'real' story. I have my views, now, on Hermine/Herman (Hesse?), and Pablo, and the 'Immortals', and who and what they are. But again, I think I'll wait until more people have finished the book. I wouldn't want to spoil anything.

I really enjoyed reading Steppenwolf. It starts of slow, as Virgil said, but I think that Hesse is merely setting up the readers expectations which he slowly takes apart later. There are aspects of the book which spoke to me very deeply; it has made me think a great deal and on that basis I would give it 5 stars. There is more to it than is immediately apparent. I still feel I need to reflect on it.

[Paulclem]

I'd agree with that Fifth.

On the culural front and how it's been taken, I can see how it has appealed to various types of marginalised people - bohemians, drug takers, anti-bourgeois, the dissatisfied, hedonists, peple of different sexual orientations etc, and these can fit lots of people I've known who might - but didn't having not read the book - have associated with the themes. It's perhaps possible to see what Hesse is getting at in saying his book has been misinterpreted maybe by the kinds of peopele I mentioned.

It is certainly about being different, but in a much more rareifed/ academic sense. Speaking of sense - do you think I am talking any? :D

[TheFifthElement]

On the culural front and how it's been taken, I can see how it has appealed to various types of marginalised people - bohemians, drug takers, anti-bourgeois, the dissatisfied, hedonists, peple of different sexual orientations etc, and these can fit lots of people I've known who might - but didn't having not read the book - have associated with the themes. It's perhaps possible to see what Hesse is getting at in saying his book has been misinterpreted maybe by the kinds of peopele I mentioned.

It is certainly about being different, but in a much more rareifed/ academic sense. Speaking of sense - do you think I am talking any? :D
I think you're making more sense than I am!

I can see how, on one level, the book would appeal to marginalised groups but I think Hesse is definitely aiming at something else. The juxtaposition of the intellectual self (or the 'soul', perhaps) against the animalistic self. Or, to put it a different way, the part of us that thinks (and feels itself separate) to the body over which we appear to have no conscious control. But of course Hesse goes further than that. Hesse, I think, introduces us to the idea of the multiplicity of identity, after building us up to think only of duality (Haller v the Steppenwolf) he offers much more than that. I think it's also interesting how the final stages of the story, prior to the Magic Theatre, take place in 'Hell'. But I'm still not entirely sure what I think about that bit.

[Virgil]

I've been stalled in my reading. I'll try to catch up. Sounds like it will get better as I get into it.

[Paulclem]

I think you're making more sense than I am!

I can see how, on one level, the book would appeal to marginalised groups but I think Hesse is definitely aiming at something else. The juxtaposition of the intellectual self (or the 'soul', perhaps) against the animalistic self. Or, to put it a different way, the part of us that thinks (and feels itself separate) to the body over which we appear to have no conscious control. But of course Hesse goes further than that. Hesse, I think, introduces us to the idea of the multiplicity of identity, after building us up to think only of duality (Haller v the Steppenwolf) he offers much more than that. I think it's also interesting how the final stages of the story, prior to the Magic Theatre, take place in 'Hell'. But I'm still not entirely sure what I think about that bit.

Yes I think you're right. The multiplicity idea comes from Buddhism, which Hesse studied along with Hinduism and resulted in Siddhartha. I think he was aiming at some combination of the intellectual traditions of East and West. The figure with the chess pieces in the theatre is like monk. I think Buddhism may have attracted him because of it's very academic approach to the world.

As for Hell - I, too, am unsure of the significance, though it is part of the shock tactics he's employing. At the time it was written - between the wars - it would have been a shocking book to read for the literate bourgeoisie. Sex, drugs, multiple partners, irreligious behaviour, transvestitism, alcoholism, an apparent murder, and pacifist anti-nationalism.

He will be aiming for the effects, but these must be metaphors for his spiritual journey.

[Dark Muse]

I'd agree with that Fifth.

On the culural front and how it's been taken, I can see how it has appealed to various types of marginalised people - bohemians, drug takers, anti-bourgeois, the dissatisfied, hedonists, peple of different sexual orientations etc, and these can fit lots of people I've known who might - but didn't having not read the book - have associated with the themes. It's perhaps possible to see what Hesse is getting at in saying his book has been misinterpreted maybe by the kinds of peopele I mentioned.

It is certainly about being different, but in a much more rareifed/ academic sense. Speaking of sense - do you think I am talking any? :D

That is an excellent point! In fact as I started to progress further into my reading and began delving into the liaisons between Maria and Haller, I instantly started thinking of the Hippy, Beatnik lifestyle, and the book On The Road came into my mind in that whole free love idea, as well as their general impressions about art and the interesting conversation between Haller's intellectual ideas on music and his views particularly upon Mozart vs. Pablo's much more "sensual" take upon music, and the role of art to appeal to the senses in the moment, and simply make people feel something.

I can see where this book would appeal to a great many different types who are "outside" the system so to speak, that is those who do challenge the normal constants and restrictions which are set up by society. On the one hand Hesse is reaching out to a vast group of different people and there is something which a great many counter-culture types might find some connection or relation to.

Yet at the same time I agree that Hesse is aiming for something much more than that. There is something both strongly intellectual as well as I think spiritual that is meant to be taken from the book. Hesse's intentions regarding the role of the Eastern philosophies is stated quite plainly toward the beginning of the book.

It is a book that could easily be misinterpreted to fit into varying different vies and used as a sort of justification for many different anti-establishment groups.

[applepie]

I'm officially giving up I've tried and tried to get into this, and from everyone's comments, it seems pretty interesting. However, I just can't get into it at all. I think part of it is the first person narration, and that isn't my favorite style to read.

[Paulclem]

Should we focus upon the Treatise of the Steppenwolf for a bit to focus the discussion?

mkhockenberry - it's the second time I've read this book. I remember getting not very much out of it the first time round, but because of Siddhartha, I thought i'd give it another go. It's not your usual book is it? I joined the James discussion over xmas on the Turn of the Screw, but I didn't really like that one. All to one's taste I say.:D

[Virgil]

Should we focus upon the Treatise of the Steppenwolf for a bit to focus the discussion?



Not a bad idea Paul. I assume we should. But let me tell you, I thought it was boring and unartistic. But I guess if the core of the novel is there, then we should discuss it.

[Dark Muse]

Not a bad idea Paul. I assume we should. But let me tell you, I thought it was boring and unartistic. But I guess if the core of the novel is there, then we should discuss it.

I thought the Treatise was abolsutely fascinating though perhaps that is becasue I could see so much of myself within it. But at any rate I do think it is a key factor into understand the story at large and what Hesse was wishing to accomplish and convey within the story.

[Dark Muse]

Ok there is something I just have to know, becasue it is not made completely clear to me. Is Hermine truly suppose to be one in the same with Harry's old friend Herman? Or is Hermine just playing the role as a way to attract Harry's attention?

[TheFifthElement]

Ok there is something I just have to know, becasue it is not made completely clear to me. Is Hermine truly suppose to be one in the same with Harry's old friend Herman? Or is Hermine just playing the role as a way to attract Harry's attention?

I don't think Hermine exists. I think she is a construct of Harry's personality.

[Dark Muse]

I don't think Hermine exists. I think she is a construct of Harry's personality.

So are Pablo, Maria, and all the other figures at the masked ball just different figments or aspects of the multiple different individualities of the Steppenwolf? And Harry expressing the varying different personalities which live within him?

[Paulclem]

So are Pablo, Maria, and all the other figures at the masked ball just different figments or aspects of the multiple different individualities of the Steppenwolf? And Harry expressing the varying different personalities which live within him?

I was beginning to think along those lines. The realisation that Haller's narration is only loosely based upon what actually happens made me re-think the events later in the book. The Magic Theatre is a fantastic construct, and I think you're right DarkM about the multiple personalities. Hermine/Herman - is she a cypher for aspects of love, (though not physical love - Maria)?

There's a lot of dancing later, though our narrator makes it clear that Haller has difficulty walking - twice.

[TheFifthElement]

So are Pablo, Maria, and all the other figures at the masked ball just different figments or aspects of the multiple different individualities of the Steppenwolf? And Harry expressing the varying different personalities which live within him?

Yes, I think so. I think it's also significant that he kills Hermine in the end, and so he is 'condemned to live'. Hermine seems to represent the part of Harry which is adept in the things he himself avoids/despises - dancing, socialising, etc - and in expressing her wish for Harry to kill her this was, instead, Harry himself expressing his desire to destroy those aspects of his personality which he seemed to see as base or alien to him. But that wasn't his lesson, and so he failed; he didn't achieve 'Immortality' and was instead condemned to live. Because it seemed to me that he was supposed to be learning to live with, to embrace, all aspects of himself, to put aside his personality (or perhaps what he perceived was his personality) instead of permitting his perceived dual nature to pull him apart and feed his desire for self destruction. I think this is the 'healing' of which Hesse spoke. Or I might be miles off the mark, but that's what I got from it anyway.

[Virgil]

He kills Hermione!!:eek6: Oh my gosh. I can't wait to get to that. :)

[Dark Muse]

Yes, I think so. I think it's also significant that he kills Hermine in the end, and so he is 'condemned to live'. Hermine seems to represent the part of Harry which is adept in the things he himself avoids/despises - dancing, socialising, etc - and in expressing her wish for Harry to kill her this was, instead, Harry himself expressing his desire to destroy those aspects of his personality which he seemed to see as base or alien to him. But that wasn't his lesson, and so he failed; he didn't achieve 'Immortality' and was instead condemned to live. Because it seemed to me that he was supposed to be learning to live with, to embrace, all aspects of himself, to put aside his personality (or perhaps what he perceived was his personality) instead of permitting his perceived dual nature to pull him apart and feed his desire for self destruction. I think this is the 'healing' of which Hesse spoke. Or I might be miles off the mark, but that's what I got from it anyway.

You make an excellent point and I think you are quite right about the meaning of the event and the death of Hermine. At first I was rather struck with the idea that even after everything else, after he had his eyes opened and rejected the Steppenwolf and saw the truth of the infinity of selves, he still reverted back the old Harry again, but it makes sense that it was his effort to try and reject that opposing aspect of himself.

I do find it interesting though that it seemed to be so significant that before he could try and kill Hermine/that aspect of himself, he had to first fall in love with her/it. That must suggest that Harry had also come to love that side of himself that was adverse to how he saw himself, and it was his love for it that made him seek to destroy it.

[the facade]

Finished it!
So I've been reading your comments and there are some very interesting things.
There was something so particularly poignant in the treatise about people who share a similar fate with Harry as they are the epitome of men caught in between the chairs (so to speak) of two ages. I've often felt the same way about myself.
Regarding the killing of Hermine, I'm inclined to disagree with some of you. I personally interpreted it as Harry's breach of his narrow-mindedness in believing in only two entities within himself and not more (as the treatise explains) and in so he was able to successfully integrate the facets of himself - Hermine - that he was in need of; not emancipate himself from them. I feel that this point is strengthened by Hesse's therapeutic intentions as presented in the foreword.

[Virgil]

I'm slowly getting there. I'm now three quarters of the way through. I can't say i'm overwhelmed. The characters aren't all that developed or three dimensional, I'm not sure where this plot is going, and it gets preachy in places. The love scenes with Maria are interesting, in a prurient sort of way. :D I'm also confused about Steppenwolf. Where is the supposed savagery of his nature? I've yet to see any dramatization of his dualistic self. I'm not seeing the description of the Steppenwolf as described in the Treatise and Harry Haller's character. But the story is engaging and I'm curious as to how it turns out.

[Virgil]

So are Pablo, Maria, and all the other figures at the masked ball just different figments or aspects of the multiple different individualities of the Steppenwolf? And Harry expressing the varying different personalities which live within him?

Oh I'm reading this now. This has crossed my mind as well. I hope it's not a surprise ending and we find out at the end it's all a fantasy in Harry's mind.

[Dark Muse]

I'm slowly getting there. I'm now three quarters of the way through. I can't say i'm overwhelmed. The characters aren't all that developed or three dimensional, I'm not sure where this plot is going, and it gets preachy in places. The love scenes with Maria are interesting, in a prurient sort of way. :D I'm also confused about Steppenwolf. Where is the supposed savagery of his nature? I've yet to see any dramatization of his dualistic self. I'm not seeing the description of the Steppenwolf as described in the Treatise and Harry Haller's character. But the story is engaging and I'm curious as to how it turns out.

Regarding the so called "savagery" in nature of the Steppenwolf, I think that is looking at the concept of the Steppenwolf a bit too literally, which I do not think is truly what Hesse is intending to convey.

As it is reference in the Treatise of the Steppenwolf and comes out later during the magic show, in truth the ideal of the Steppenwolf, that is the duel aspect between man and wolf, is in fact an illusion. The truth is that there are in fact countless numerous individualities contained within, but most people can only see a unified singular individuality.

While the so called Steppenwolf, is tortured because he sees through the illusion of being a unified singular person, his ability to penetrate through the truth stops at this duel aspect of himself. It is this which drives him away from society and isolates him.

The term Steppenwolf, means "wolf of the steppes" which is meant to capture more the idea of a lone wolf figure, an outcast, an exile, more so than the idea of something savage or something "beastly"

Though Harry feels at times like he is a beast in his rejection of society, in the way in which he does not feel like he belongs, and the fact that he is incapable of forming relationships with other people. But this should not be confused with something werewolfian so to speak, that is something that is in fact physically brutally violent.

It is more of a struggle to try and break free from the norms, and limitations of the bourgeoisie society, and embrace a more libertarian lifestyle as expressed in his liaisons with Maria and the drug use of Pablo, and the free sort of lifestyle which they live.

[Paulclem]

I think it goes further than that. Although he chooses to live in the bosom of the bourgeoisie, he does not feel a part of it, and is perceived as different by our narrator.

Is his healing about accepting the fun side of life, whislt his killing of Hermine, which he anticipates her asking him, is a moving on from this?

[Dark Muse]

I think it goes further than that. Although he chooses to live in the bosom of the bourgeoisie, he does not feel a part of it, and is perceived as different by our narrator.

Is his healing about accepting the fun side of life, whislt his killing of Hermine, which he anticipates her asking him, is a moving on from this?

I think that the killing her Hermine was the needed catalyst to make him realize that his seeking death, and his struggles with suicide had been wrong all along. He was awakened to the fact that he never was intended to kill Hermine/that aspect of himself, which I think is why it was so important to Hermine that he love her first, because he was suppose to embrace her and accept that part of himself.

Yet, it was only through killing her that he was able to come into this realization. After the killing of Hermine, he then had his eyes opened to the lesson he was truly intended to learn, and that the way he had been living his life up until this point was wrong and his logic had been faulty. At the same time, it was also an acknowledgement that his struggle was not yet done, that the old Harry still lurked inside of him.

But I think that in the death of Hermine, in severing that part of him, it will allow him now, that he has seen the truth and the door has been opened, to strive to achieve those things within his life, that freedom, without having to do so through Hermine, it will no longer have to be a thing that is separate from himself.

The road to healing and the escape from misery can now be accomplished without his own mind having to deceive him into it, without the projection of these aspects of himself into other people, because now he knows they are all him, that it is all within him, and not separate from himself or outside of himself

[TheFifthElement]

Muse, that's an excellent summary. I agree with everything you said. Well put.

[Paulclem]

Agreed.

What do you think about the other doors where there is anarchy, kiling and the multiple personalty game?

[Dark Muse]

Agreed.

What do you think about the other doors where there is anarchy, kiling and the multiple personalty game?

I have to admit I was really confused by the whole car thing, where they were in a car, and than shooting at cars, and it was just complete chaos. That particular door/reality/vision, whichever it may be did not make a whole lot of sense to me.

It was perhaps a complete freedom from the bourgeoisie which is rebelled against throughout the book and which Harry struggles with continually, the fact that he despises it and yet still wants to be a part of it.

It was a fantasy of complete freedom where no sense of order exists, and there are no restraints. A world constructed without rules or laws, and perhaps it was meant to offer the absolute extreme in the libertine ideal of free living. It seemed almost to reflect the id.

Since Harry was so pulled into himself and so reserved and bond so much to his intellectual ideas, and his Immortals, the introduction to the world of utter chaos which has no cares or worries, was meant to be a shock to Harry's system to help knock him out of the shell and once he had been exposed to the height of that lawlessness he would be more receptive to the other lessons which he was intended to learn.

It also worked as a physical manifestation, at least within his mind, of his negative feelings and of his conflicts and struggles, and perhaps it was meant to show him just how ridiculous his suffering and his struggles were, because the chaos was such utter nonsense.

Pablo tells Harry that he has no sense of humor, and that he takes himself and life too seriously, and in Pablo's opinion he also takes his art and music too seriously. The madness of the chaos was perhaps intended to try and show Harry just how ludicrous life would really be, and how meaningless it all was, and so he might as well just learn to laugh at it all.

[Paulclem]

I have to admit I was really confused by the whole car thing, where they were in a car, and than shooting at cars, and it was just complete chaos. That particular door/reality/vision, whichever it may be did not make a whole lot of sense to me.

It was perhaps a complete freedom from the bourgeoisie which is rebelled against throughout the book and which Harry struggles with continually, the fact that he despises it and yet still wants to be a part of it.

It was a fantasy of complete freedom where no sense of order exists, and there are no restraints. A world constructed without rules or laws, and perhaps it was meant to offer the absolute extreme in the libertine ideal of free living. It seemed almost to reflect the id.

Since Harry was so pulled into himself and so reserved and bond so much to his intellectual ideas, and his Immortals, the introduction to the world of utter chaos which has no cares or worries, was meant to be a shock to Harry's system to help knock him out of the shell and once he had been exposed to the height of that lawlessness he would be more receptive to the other lessons which he was intended to learn.

It also worked as a physical manifestation, at least within his mind, of his negative feelings and of his conflicts and struggles, and perhaps it was meant to show him just how ridiculous his suffering and his struggles were, because the chaos was such utter nonsense.

Pablo tells Harry that he has no sense of humor, and that he takes himself and life too seriously, and in Pablo's opinion he also takes his art and music too seriously. The madness of the chaos was perhaps intended to try and show Harry just how ludicrous life would really be, and how meaningless it all was, and so he might as well just learn to laugh at it all.

I agree. It's perhaps telling that Haller is a pacifist and argues with his former friend and academic. Maybe Pablo's message is that he could have ignored the insult to his article, ignored the painting of Goethe, and had a thoroughly pleasant evening. Haller did after all publish under a pseudonym, but then he takes very personally his friend's views.

There is no vioent ending to that fantsy either; it seems as though order is restored as they go off with the woman from the car.

[Dark Muse]

I agree. It's perhaps telling that Haller is a pacifist and argues with his former friend and academic. Maybe Pablo's message is that he could have ignored the insult to his article, ignored the painting of Goethe, and had a thoroughly pleasant evening. Haller did after all publish under a pseudonym, but then he takes very personally his friend's views.

There is no vioent ending to that fantsy either; it seems as though order is restored as they go off with the woman from the car.

Yes, it is almost like a cartoon, where no one seems to really get hurt in the end, so I do think it was meant to be a message about not taking life so seriously, becasue in the fantasy nothing they do there really matters, and if they do just go with the flow, then they all end up having a good time.

[Virgil]

I have not had a chance to give my thoughts on Steppenwolf and assess the novel, so let me finally do so now. I’m not exactly sure what to say. It’s certainly different, I take it considered experimental, and except for the Steppenwolf Treatise section, which consumed 15% of the novel, it was engaging until the end. To be honest, I’m not a fan of novels that blur a dream state with reality. I don’t mind novels that use dreams, but if one doesn’t pin down a line between what is dream and what is reality, then what’s the story? What’s so important about someone’s dream? Sure one can make the point that one can’t tell the difference between reality and dream, but that’s been done. Besides, I don’t find that profound. And if the ending is such that it’s all been a dream, my God, that’s cheap and frankly amateurish.

And so in reading Steppenwolf, I’m baffled by several things. I can’t tell if the story is a dream or its reality. Obviously Harry exists. The point of the preface where the man at the apartment who finds Harry’s notebooks accounts for Harry’s reality through Harry’s stay at the apartment. So we know Harry is real, we know the apartment is real. Is everything else part of Harry’s dream or imagination? Does Harry really start shooting people as if it were a shooting gallery or does he then for a reason I can’t fathom kill the woman he loves? If it’s real, it’s perverse. If it’s a dream, then so what?

I don’t think after this one reading I can precisely articulate the novel’s central theme, but I would assume it’s coherent. I see the allusions to Jungian psychology and the mystical religious element that runs through the novel; I can see how Hesse is in dissension to the current state of his society. He certainly has issues with his contemporary world and I’m not sure if it’s because the world has gone astray from some better state (religious and psychological) or its inherent in man to be astray. I can see both possibilities. I didn’t after reading the novel feel the need to give it a lot of thought.

I didn’t feel the need because I didn’t feel the novel was all that well crafted.

Except for Harry, all the characters were flat, pure flat. Hermione, Pablo, Maria, his professor colleague, the professor’s wife, not one. I guess the flatness of these characters supports a dream perspective from Harry’s mind to the novel. Nonetheless where’s the writer’s craft? In the end these characters seemed to stand for allegorical concepts rather than people.

Second, Harry is supposed to be a tortured soul. What exactly is torturing him? I’m not sure I get it. And if he’s a person who is rude and uncouth, as he says he is, where’s the dramatization of it? If anything he’s quite cultured in his wine and music. The only rudeness is that incident with the Professor’s wife where he accidently demeans her painting. And he didn’t know it was hers. The description of Harry doesn’t seem to match the narrative.

Third, the Steppenwolf Treatise was incredibly not artful. This was a delineation of the novel’s themes in an explicative mode. A writer of skill would have integrated these themes into the narrative by dramatizing them. Or of a lesser craft would be where a writer has the characters speak the themes in the dialogue. Hesse takes even a lesser craft route. The Treatise was pure argumentative discourse disguised in a pamphlet that Harry finds. How unimaginative. And not only is it argumentative discourse, it’s a particular type. The argument is a critique on society and essentially politics, i.e. “bourgeois society.” Well, that kind of argument is called a polemic, and polemic is the antithesis of creative writing. I don’t read novels to read polemics, whether I agree with the polemic or not.

Fourth, the quality of the writing was mixed. I am not referring to the prose, since of course this was written in German and I read it in translation, and I have no way to assess the quality of the German. Hesse in his author’s note calls the novel poetic. I’m going to assume his prose is excellent. I’m referring to how a writer engages the reader in the development of scenes. A good writer draws the reader in so that through the details and pacing it creates the atmosphere of truth, that this scene really happened, and the reader is engaged by it. Hesse’s scene writing is spotting throughout the novel. I fully believed and was engaged with the scene where Hermione draws him in to dance; I was engaged and delighted with the love scenes with Maria. I found the Pablo scenes completely uninteresting and the shooting gallery was totally non believable. Here’s the shooting gallery scene. Now keep in mind, this is the first time Gustav enters the novel at page 181 of a 214 page novel.


The best of all, however, was that my childhood friend, Gustav, turned up close beside me. I had lost sight of him for dozens of years, the wildest, strongest, most eager and venturesome of the friends of my childhood. I laughed in my heart as I saw him blink at me with his bright blue eyes. He beckoned and at once I followed him joyfully.

“Good Lord, Gustav,” I cried happily, “I haven’t seen you in ages. Whatever has become of you?”

He gave a derisive snort, just as he used to do as a boy. “There you are again, you idiot, jabbering and asking questions. I’m a professor of theology if you want to know. But, Lord be praised, there’s no occaision for theology now, my boy. It’s war. Come on!”
He shot the driver of a small car that came snorting towards us and leaping into it as nimbly as monkey, brought it to a standstill for me to get in. Then we drove like the devil between bullets and crashed cars out of town and suburbs.

Then they have a brief conversation and they situate themselves on top of a rock wall overlooking the road.


We had scarcely cooled down when we heard the hoarse imperious horn of a big luxuery car from the next bend in the road. It came purring at top speed up the smooth road. Our rifles were ready in our hands. The excitement was intense.

“Aim at the chauffer,” commanded Gustav quickly just as the heavy car went by beneath us. I aimed, and fired at the chauffer in his blue cap. The man fell in a heap. The car careened on, charged the cliff face, rebounded, attacked the lower wall furiously with all its unwieldy weight like a great bumble bee and, tumbling over, crashed with a brief and distant report into the depths below.

“Got him!” Gustav laughed. “My turn next.”

And they go on to keep shooting others. I have no idea whether this is a dream or fact. I’m not sure I really care. The whole scene is rather cartoonish. The novel is 90% over and Hesse introduces a new character where they do some incredible and diabolic things and no such violence or action scenes have occurred before this point in the book. It comes out of the blue, both the violence and the swift action. A writer cannot just do that and be credible. Such scenes need to be “earned,” as we called in creative writing classes. An action novel does not just have action at the end; the author has to create the world of action, and so when the climatic action at the end occurs, it’s “earned.” This was completely unearned and so is the climax. I won’t spoil it, but I found it possibly as cartoonish as this scene.

I struggled to try to give this novel an average rating. The novel was boring at the beginning, interesting in the middle section with the engaging scenes with Hermione and Maria, and bizarre and crude in its apparent dream section (if it was a dream) at the end. In his author’s note Hesse from the perspective of over thirty years from when the book was published writes that this was his most misunderstood novel – “violently misunderstood” is the exact phrasing. He calls this novel “poetic writing.” Perhaps this could have worked as a long extended poem, but as a novel it lacks the flesh and blood feel of the real. No wonder it’s been misunderstood. It’s not well crafted as a novel. Sure it’s experimental, but most experiments in art go awry. I think there is the raw material for a good novella here, probably ninety pages long, but as a novel it fails. Sorry I had to go below average on this.