Let's Talk Career Options...

[JuniperWoolf]

So like most people in my part of the world at my age, I'm now forced with a very difficult decision: what to do with the rest of my life. Before I look into the resources that my University has, I'd like some first hand experience from fellow litnetters who have already been through the tedious process.

What do you do? How do you like it? How did you decide?

[LitNetIsGreat]

This is the advice of Neely, whether you heed it or not:

1 There is no such thing as a good job, they don't exist.

2 Career is an illusion, it's like water you can never really grasp it, so don't spend all your life trying to do so.

3 You will never be truly happy in your work, there will always annoyances and frustrations, work can never be the cause of satisfaction.

4 You will always feel that you deserve more for the job you do, whatever you do.

You have got to decide how much of yourself you are willing to give away for money. You will probably follow one of two paths: either you will drift towards going into something that interests you, but doesn't necessarily pay well, or for something that pays relatively well, but doesn't necessarily interest you, of course the challenge is to try to combine the two but that can sometimes be a tough ask.

I know that this may not seem like the answers to the questions you asked, but for what it is worth, this is my advice.

I drifted, then followed the first path.

Good luck!

[SleepyWitch]

what are you studying, Juniper?

[Dinkleberry2010]

I probably worked at fifty different jobs before I found what was right for me, but once I found it I stuck with it, and I know I made the right decision.

[papayahed]

I had no idea what I wanted to do when I got to college. My first semester my advisor suggested some pretty lame classes which I ended up dropping, my first year at college was not pretty. I ended up finding a few interesting classes which I stuck with and before I knew it I had most of my math classes completed and engineering seemed the next logical step. I have a love / hate relationship with my job. I love the chemistry and processes used to manufacture our products but at the same time I don't love having to climb 90 ft towers or wearing protective clothing all the time.

[Helga]

I had no idea what I wanted to do when I got to college. My first semester my advisor suggested some pretty lame classes which I ended up dropping, my first year at college was not pretty. I ended up finding a few interesting classes which I stuck with and before I knew it I had most of my math classes completed and engineering seemed the next logical step. I have a love / hate relationship with my job. I love the chemistry and processes used to manufacture our products but at the same time I don't love having to climb 90 ft towers or wearing protective clothing all the time.

I'm so afraid of hights I could never do that. I get chills thinking about it..

but I don't know what I can say about the question asked, I haven't started college but I have known for years what I want to study when I finally get there...

[Paulclem]

Pretty early on I made a decision not to work in industry, but to find work in the service sector. I didn't have a very good view of industry - how it operates rather than what it does - and I was quite young then. I didn't know at that point that you don't make money working in the public sector either, but I did appreciate the value of enjoying your job.

I have worked as a Classroom Assistant, Primary School Teacher and now Adult Education Tutor and Manager. In between I have also worked in factories and warehouses as and when the need arose.

It all comes down to what's important for you - money, fame, status, long hours, long holidays etc. These days it's better to have a few irons in the fire as it is an uncertain world. I wish had done some practical course in my youth - which may have helped me around the house, and saved and earned me money.

Finally, lot of people change their careers in mid life, usually because they were dissatisfied with their first career path. Take your time, and talk to people in the jobs you are interested in. Every move you make towards a career type begins to limit the type of job you will be aiming at, but it is never too late to change course, career, skill base etc. Then of course, you have to factor you life in, which might just be the biggest influencing factor - necessity being the Mother of getting a job etc.

[JuniperWoolf]

Good advice Neely, I've never thought of it that way. Since pre-school we've been asked incessantly "what do you want to be when you grow up?" I guess I just took it as a given that my decision will entirely define the person that I become. Maybe I'll just be an overpaid rig worker or brick layer or something, and define myself by something other than the way I make a living. Man, that sounds sweet.



Finally, lot of people change their careers in mid life, usually because they were dissatisfied with their first career path. Take your time, and talk to people in the jobs you are interested in. Every move you make towards a career type begins to limit the type of job you will be aiming at, but it is never too late to change course, career, skill base etc. Then of course, you have to factor you life in, which might just be the biggest influencing factor - necessity being the Mother of getting a job etc.

This is some good advice too, I knew that you guys would help me gain perspective.


what are you studying, Juniper?

That's my problem, I haven’t even decided on a field. I took a couple of semesters off this year because I was sick, and also to try to decide what to go into.

When I went into university, I was pretty sure that I wanted to study literature because I loved English class in highschool. English in university was much different. I found the assignments dull and the other students insufferably annoying (seriously, if I didn’t take those semesters off, the next kid who used desperately superfluous language to answer a simple question in class was going to be stabbed in the neck with a pen). Then I started to see that studying literature was killing my love of books. I could suffer through the classes in order to become a high school English teacher, but I can see how teaching disinterested highschool students would slowly kill my soul until I’m an old shell of a human being with eight cats and a drinking problem.

I’m great at biology, but not very competitive (which I’m told a scientist sort of needs to be), and I don’t even know what the life of a card-carrying biology major would be like.

Psychology is another subject that I rock at, but science psychology is heartless and clinical psychology (or therapy or whatever) has too much heart (I’d get pretty bored of depressed people).

Classics is wicked, but there aren’t any jobs (the study of “ancient history” has become synonymous with “obsolete,” so what does that tell you?).

I was thinking doctor, but it's pretty difficult (to become a doctor with the intense studies and internship, then to actually be a doctor what with being called out at all hours of the night and dealing with stupid people and putting your hands in gross ugly wounds, blah!).

I like the woods, so lately I’ve been thinking forestry. I don’t know what life as a forestry ranger would be like though, that’s another thing that I have to look into.

I’m going to go into career research mode pretty soon, I just wanted some easily-accessed input from my favorite online community first.

[The Comedian]

You know, when I started college whenever anyone (my parents included) talked about a course as helping me "develop career skills" or "good for the real world", I made sure that I did NOT take that course.

I was a bit romantic with my college education and, honestly, I wanted to study things that made me smarter, wiser. "Career" was like a dirty word. It drove my parents batty.

So I doubled majored in English and classics and minored in philosophy. During that time I worked mostly blue-color jobs: I installed sewer systems (the opposite of English, I thought), worked on a farm, was a life guard. At the time, I thought that this life style was perfect. And it was, at that time.

Then, I got married and needed to move my life beyond this romantic vision a high-minded, roughen-hands life. So I worked as a technical writer for a major computer company. The work was boring as hell, but learned to write well and saw a side of life that I hadn't see before. And, now, when I look back, I see it as the first painful step of my maturing into contemporary adult life.

A few years of that tedium was all I could stand. So, having received my Masters in English at roughly that time, I turned my career to teaching. I couldn't stand the snobbery of further graduate study in English (nor of being a major college professor), and apathetic teens seemed even worse (I hate apathy most of all), so I worked towards being a professor at a community college. And that's where I've been for a while. I'm happy with it. It's a good job and the time off is awesome. ;)

So, the upshot of this is that the idea of what to do "for the rest of your life" is about as logical as a three-headed goat. Finding a career is good -- the older you get, the more thankful you'll be for a good job. But that you have to find the "one thing" is silly.

Study what you like. Learn a lot. And, most importantly, be really good at something. Show up on time too. And be happy with what you're doing, but keep an eye out for a good opportunity to move forward.

[SleepyWitch]

hum, if you like both literature/ writing and biology/ psychology, you could do "history of science" or whatever it's called and become a journalist who writes about science or psychology? well, I guess that's a daft idea because there aren't many jobs in that field.
or how's about "earth sciences" or something along those lines? I don't mean traditional geography, but one of those courses that focus on things like natural hazards, resources, risk management, conservation... that could have a bit of forestry and a bit of biology in it?

[Virgil]

So like most people in my part of the world at my age, I'm now forced with a very difficult decision: what to do with the rest of my life. Before I look into the resources that my University has, I'd like some first hand experience from fellow litnetters who have already been through the tedious process.

What do you do? How do you like it? How did you decide?
I'm a mechanical engineer. In high school I was a math and science oriented student but always loved reading. I entered college with the intent of a physics or engineering major, but when I got into some English lit classes I fell in love with literature. It had never been presented to me before as an act of appreciating art, and once I understood that a whole new way of reading openned up to me. I continued with both engineering and english lit, actually in effect dual major. I took six years to graduate in what normally takes four, but I did finish with the equivalent of two undergraduate degrees, though you could only claim one, and i claimed mechanical engineering. In essence I had a decision to make and it was an English professor who advised me that there aren't that many direct career options for literature majors. So I became a mechanical engineer, and, except a little at the beginning of my career when the transition to real life was tough, I have never regretted the decision. Contrary to what people have said, yes you can have a career and you can love your job.

Now that said, I do see how it's tough for any liberal arts major. Unless you want to teach, there aren't any directly applicable jobs for literature or philosophy or history majors. Actually philosophy might actually be the antithesis of real life work. :p And for the most part even teaching isn't a direct transfer of your college discipline.

By the way, I also went on to get my master's in English lit while working on my career as an engineer, going at night, one class at a time with breaks, taking ten years to finally get that degree. I did it for the love of literature, no other reason.

So the lesson I take out of my experience is concentrate on something that will lead to a decent job (but that you also like) and pursue your personal love on the side for pleasure. I can't claim this was all planned on my part, but I have been extremely lucky in the way things have worked out.

[The Comedian]

Now that said, I do see how it's tough for any liberal arts major. Unless you want to teach, there aren't any directly applicable jobs for literature or philosophy or history majors. Actually philosophy might actually be the antithesis of real life work. :p And for the most part even teaching isn't a direct transfer of your college discipline.

This is sort of true -- I'd say it is much harder to find a job after leaving college; I can personally attest to this. But if you paired this liberal arts degree with some other aspect of life (or education) as Virgil suggests, then you should find suitable employment just fine.

A friend of mine who majored in philosophy is a financial adviser with a major investing company. He had to start near the bottom, of course. But his analytical mind, creativity and trained practice in reading long, boring texts ( :) ) quickly lead him up the old ladder. Another friend of mine who majored in philosophy is a lawyer in a small town. Each of these paths had their moments of regret and odd turns but smart people find a way to succeed insofar as they don't give up.

Just to offer a parallel story: my liberal arts degree (now paired with a variety of experiences) does make me more versatile than, say, my wife who is in the medical field. She can pretty much only practice her specialty. She's not trained for much more than that. I can work in marketing, business, educational administration, web publishing, etc. . .

[Virgil]

Good points Comedian.

[Dinkleberry2010]

I'll tell you a little about the course I took. I was drafted into the army just after I turned 19; I got out when I was 21 with absolutely no skills at anything and no idea of what I wanted to do. I spent two years traveling and working around the country. Then I decided on the spur of the moment to begin college, and what helped me was the GI Bill. I was able to go to college for four years and get a bachelor's degree, and even some graduate school work--and the GI Bill paid for it all (of course I worked at some part-time jobs too). I didn't go to college to pursue a career or to get a good job; I went to college to study subjects in which I was interested--and that was mainly literature, art, philosophy, history, and journalism. That's mainly what I studied for four years. After I got a bachelor's degree I was more or less forced to find employment, which I did, and I worked at a variety of jobs. Then, fortunately, I found work in a field which I enjoyed and in which I had experience, and it turned out to be what I would do for more than thirty-five years, that is, journalism. That's what happened to me. Most of it was really unplanned.

[JBI]

The way I see things, undergraduate in university is generally not going to lead you to your career, unless you are going to be an academic, or are in an applied field like computer engineering. Generally speaking, the chances of working in anything related to an arts major are slim. Therefore, since I started, I sort of pushed away from my original plan.

When I got to university, I started mostly with English courses, which I found kind of easy, but only half-interesting, in that some courses were fun, others weren't, some classmates actually seemed like they cared about things, others didn't, and English looked interesting, whereas other times, it most certainly didn't.

As a field though, I figured out quickly that it was a dying one, leaving me with a few options - law school, work unrelated to the field, editor, teacher, or keep on going - with a few more others that aren't specific for English. As for academia, the discourse has essentially dried, so I moved on.

then I just switched everything to language courses, which seems to work, and, even if I don't work in the field, will still be worth knowing. French wasn't much fun for me, but Italian and Chinese have been (Chinese as fun in the sense that I like the people in my class, and enjoy the end product, even if it is a masochistic pursuit that takes up the bulk of one's time).

No matter what happens then, I think the Canadian job market has gone to the point of Bachelors as the standard high school diploma of my parent's generation, and everything else bound to blue collar, or unskilled work, which is something I have no interest in pursuing. So really what you study has no real consequence, it is just that you aught to study something which you enjoy and could see yourself spending long hours every day immersed in. Languages for me do that, since they are always interesting, and one always expands their understanding of the world when studying language. Others prefer other disciplines, I cannot make that choice for anyone.


From my experience, nothing really matters at this point - the important thing is to just take things easy and everything will work itself out if you try don't punish yourself too much, but stay on track. Chances are, nothing you learn now will be of use, so just find something you enjoy learning about.


As for jobs in the future - I think generally the masters is becoming the new Bachelors of my parent's generation, so you may want to consider that into your planning.

As it is though, I think you somewhat gutsy to contemplate being a ranger - knowing Canada, that literally means living in the Wilderness, and freezing half to death.

[OrphanPip]

I'm kind of in the same position as you Jun, I've just finished by bachelor's in Microbiology and Immunology at McGill. Since graduation I've been continuing the same lab assistant job I worked as an undergraduate, except with more hours, and I can't say I'm loving it. I knew before I finished my B. sci. that I didn't want to do a master's, but that pretty much means I won't be going far in a science career. Right now I just want to take a break from school and work, but I'm considering going back to school for secondary education. A bachelor's will basically get you an entry level position at most places. I also have the advantage of being mostly fluent in French and English. I'm not worried about my career options in the future, but I just don't know what to do really.

[soundofmusic]

Take time to know yourself, what do you really feel passionately about. When you see a program or read an article, is there anything that takes your attention. Are you the type of person who must find purpose in each day? Do you feel strongly about the wrongs in the justice system...do you want to cure cancer or help children?

The Best Way to Find a Career Path, is to Let it Find You.

[AuntShecky]

Whatever path you decide to take, I hope it leads to happiness. If you're thinking of majoring in English, however, please take a look at this cautionary tale first
published in The American Scholar. Recently this
essay won a Sidney Award, a distinguised honor for authors of essays and magazine articles published in the year just past.

I felt a bit of despair after reading this article, as it made me consider the fact that I'd made a bad choice these long
decades ago. Despite the disappointments of the dreams that never came true, I probably would've still pursued them just the same. Anyway, here's the article by William Chace:

http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-decline-of-the-english-department/


On the other hand, maybe we should hang on to our dreams, no matter what anyone says or how much others
reject or laugh at us:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2009/12/27/portrait_of_an_artist_as_an_old_woman_do_what_you_ love_1261692933/

[JBI]

Whatever path you decide to take, I hope it leads to happiness. If you're thinking of majoring in English, however, please take a look at this cautionary tale first
published in The American Scholar. Recently this
essay won a Sidney Award, a distinguised honor for authors of essays and magazine articles published in the year just past.

I felt a bit of despair after reading this article, as it made me consider the fact that I'd made a bad choice these long
decades ago. Despite the disappointments of the dreams that never came true, I probably would've still pursued them just the same. Anyway, here's the article by William Chace:

http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-decline-of-the-english-department/


On the other hand, maybe we should hang on to our dreams, no matter what anyone says or how much others
reject or laugh at us:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2009/12/27/portrait_of_an_artist_as_an_old_woman_do_what_you_ love_1261692933/

True to some extent (the first article) but that is more with American institutions. Anglo-Canadian, and French Canadian (since Jun is from Quebec) institutions have run similar courses, but differ slightly.


First of all, though some aspects of humanities have been shrinking, others have been prospering - I was left with a feeling after my first year that English was a dying field, and so moved away quickly, but the field I switched to was very different, and is growing astronomically. Likewise, philosophy seems to be dying, but comparative literature seems to be doing alright.

In terms of humanist pursuit, it isn't so much important what you major in, if you are looking at grad school, but how you interpret things into your own sort of niche - so, for instance, if I were to write a thesis on Faulkner I probably would have a hard time moving forward, given the large range of surplus American Literature Ph. D.s flooding Canada from down south, but if I was to write on, for instance, comparative literature from Canada and the West Indies, and analyze certain traits, I may be able to open a few more gates.

Generally though, I think humanities are heading toward a sort of interdisciplinary approach across the board, so that English will eventually just be absorbed into a "literature studies" which functions as a side-branch of humanist studies, and combines with media studies, film studies, art history, and other fields, as a sort of collaborative project, as apposed to its own office, with its own people, and own approaches.


This is all my speculation, but I feel it is only some aspects of humanities that are shrinking, especially because of a surplus of American Ph. Ds, and therefore an experience inflation.

On the other hand, the discipline I am involved with, East Asian Studies, which is about to be cut into several smaller disciplines, as popularity grows, is growing, and truth be told, in the institution I am in, rather than try to hook undergrads in classes by passing them, rather cuts class size down by half each year automatically. There will be room there in the future, as funding, and relevance increase, as will there be in other disciplines.

The problem with English is that English as a discipline is somewhat a strange concept, and as such, virtually all professors of it have training in other languages (it is a degree requirement, for instance in most Canadian Ph. d. programs to be proficient in French as well as another language).

Really though this is all just a process of universities reconstructing themselves. There are more CEOS right now with arts degrees in Canada than business degrees, so it makes no difference in the long run. Though the US seems to have a more resume-intensive culture.

[Blanket Heist]

Juniper,

Don't know where you're from, but I'm from the US.

I'm a liberal arts major (Junior) & I've no idea what I plan on doing.
I have a lot of experience volunteering and some moderate work experience. I've read that work experience is the "most important" thing that many college students neglect.

I'm coming to terms with becoming an over educated, underpaid, NPR listening, kombucha growing scoundrel within the next five to ten years, and it doesn't seem too bad.

Let me know if you figure things out, could use some advice.

[stephofthenight]

Juniper, Been struggling with this one myself. My first choice would be to be a jockey, think kentucky derby :) or a dance teacher. the pay for both sucks. the great thing about most jobs is they are 9-5 with weekends off. I personaly went with something that I can make a lot of money at, save a lot, have good retirment, and make some investments and either retire or quit after about 100-15 years, so i dont have to work all my life, that leaves me a lot of years to pursue my passion, having finances taken care of. Life is what we make it, careers to. But the real question is do you want to work all your life? Either way you will have to endure dumb bosses, and idiot co-workers, that back stabbing dramatic co worker, this is everywhere. I have found work is just like highschool. annoying but neccisary. Either way think what you like, ask your college for a list. it starts at the top paying, and goes down. find 5 you like highlight them and see if any of the 5 meet the pay requirment you want, the amouth of years of education, and interest level...
hope this helps, good luck
steph

[OrphanPip]

Whatever path you decide to take, I hope it leads to happiness. If you're thinking of majoring in English, however, please take a look at this cautionary tale first
published in The American Scholar. Recently this
essay won a Sidney Award, a distinguised honor for authors of essays and magazine articles published in the year just past.

I felt a bit of despair after reading this article, as it made me consider the fact that I'd made a bad choice these long
decades ago. Despite the disappointments of the dreams that never came true, I probably would've still pursued them just the same. Anyway, here's the article by William Chace:

http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-decline-of-the-english-department/


On the other hand, maybe we should hang on to our dreams, no matter what anyone says or how much others
reject or laugh at us:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2009/12/27/portrait_of_an_artist_as_an_old_woman_do_what_you_ love_1261692933/

There is a similar drop in many of the traditional scientific disciplines as well. Theoretical Math and Physics is increasingly becoming obsolete in university science departments, their saving grace is that their introductory level courses also happen to be required in the more popular engineering programs. Likewise, animal biology and evolutionary biology have a serious deficit in jobs relative to the number of PhDs floating around out there. Most of the basic sciences are in big trouble except for specialized branches. Organic chemist and chemical engineers are doing fine, but nuclear chemist can't find jobs (except for perhaps in Iran).

This leaves the "sexy" sciences which are considered practical because they produce immediate tangible results. Molecular biologist and biochemist are abundant and jobs exist out there, but you can't get a grant for any research that isn't related to cancer. Similarly, unless you want to work on HIV forget about becoming a virologist.

http://wuphys.wustl.edu/~katz/scientist.html

Edit: I'd thought I would further emphasize the problem with the science job market by telling a personal experience. This summer I, a fresh recipient of a bachelor's degree, had to train someone 18 years my senior with a master's in microbiology at my job because he had recently been laid off from Glaxo-Smith-Klein. It makes me incredibly nervous about my future to be working the same job as someone with much more experience and training than me.

[Mathor]

For the past 6 years I was convinced that ultimately I wanted to become a psychologist. It wasn't until I truly dived into the major that I realized how wrong I was. The last thing I wanted to do (at least for a living) was psychology. I was forced to start all over and changed my major to Music Industry. Ultimately once I get my bachelors I want to get a starting job at a record company or some sort of studio as a press agent (Most likely in New York). If I feel, at this point, whether I achieve my career plans or not, that I desire to continue my schooling, I plan to go to law school in new york.

[Scheherazade]

I think it is important to decide on one particular aspect: Do you want to do job at which you are naturally good or do you want to do a job that you simply like and enjoy doing?

Of course, it would be ideal if we were naturally gifted at the things we love or vice versa but, unfortunately, that is not always the case.

If I were you, I would take a serious aptitute/career test and see what the result shows and then decide whether I could see myself following the suggested career options.

I took a few aptitute tests at different points in my life and they all indicated that I was suitable for teaching (90-95%). Conveniently for me, that is what I studied at university as well but when I graduated, I thought there should be more to life than teaching so I tried various other jobs. However, once I got tired of fooling around, I just knew that I went back to teaching. In the UK, it has been a little painful return for me (because I got my qualifications from another country) but all said and done, I love being a teacher and I am not so bad at it either.

[Zee.]

I'd like to be a diplomat so at uni i will be studying law, politics, etc

[JBI]

I'd like to be a diplomat so at uni i will be studying law, politics, etc

You do know that you will need several foreign languages as well, right?

[Annamariah]

I knew I wanted to study something that would lead to a profession. I was interested in many things from completely different fields, I love reading, and I'm pretty good with languages, so translation was a great choice. I know I'm never going to get rich (unless I marry someone rich, which is very unlikely), but as long as I've got enough money so that I don't have to worry how I'm going to afford eating tomorrow I'll rather do something I like than something I hate but get paid for better.

But really, I was at a complete loss with what I'm going to do with my life until I was in the middle of my last year in upper secondary school and I had to start filling applications. Basically I just applied to study anything that I could imagine myself doing and thought I'd decide after I knew which places I got in to. Preparing for the entrance exams gave me some idea what studying said subject would be like.

In the end I had to choose between becoming an engineer or a translator. I thought that it's more difficult to get into translation department, so I decided to go for it. Should it turn out to be the wrong decision, I could always apply to engineering again. (The fact education is free here of course makes it easier try different options.) I haven't regretted translation, though, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy engineering half as much :)

So my advice would be keeping your mind open, looking into different options and perhaps talking to people who study or have studied the subjects you're interested in so that you could learn what it's really like :) And if something isn't your thing, you can always try something else later.