Why is getting copyrighted such a pain?

[pygmyhippo9]

I sent my work to get copyrighted... two years ago. Every time I call the headquarters in Washington D.C. they extend when they'll issue it and keep saying they're very busy and backed up. Does anyone else get this problem? It's an absolute nightmare. Also, with publishing in general, do most writers get it copyrighted first and then go to publishing houses or do they let the publishing houses take care of all the legal hoo-hah? I only put my manuscript to be copyrighted first because I've had issues with people stealing my work in the past.

It's so frustrating. HELP!

[Dinkleberry2010]

If you're going to have your work published by a publishing company, in most cases the company will take care of the copyright issue. If you're going to self-publish it is a good idea to get a copyright yourself. I found that when I self-published a volume of poetry, the copyright cost me about $26, and I had to wait about a month for the copyright to go through all the channels and for it to be finally "officially" complete. If you're going to copyright every single thing you write or have singly published, then God help you--it's going to cost you a fortune.

[Dinkleberry2010]

ignore this

[pygmyhippo9]

ignore what?

I'm only talking about one book that I'm trying to get copyrighted. It's been almost two years. I'm not sure what to do. It's literally just sitting there in the copyright place. You said your's only took one month which is what I would have expected for mine. Not two years. It's another example of bureaucratic absurdity.

[grey]

Why don't you try a publishing company? They will take care of all.

[Dinkleberry2010]

when I had ignore this on the post I was referring to my blank post--because it was a duplicate post of mine. I wasn't referring to your post.

[9 Bean Rows]

Why is being copy-writed more important than being quoted? hum...

[Dinkleberry2010]

9 Bean Rows, is that a serious question, or are you being facetious?

[9 Bean Rows]

9 Bean Rows, is that a serious question, or are you being facetious?

Neither and both. I remember the effort spent in getting published (technical white papers) and found it decidedly lacking in satisfaction once accomplished. I have found anonymity more useful in obtaining satisfaction.

[9 Bean Rows]

Regarding Copyrights... Perhaps checking to see what country copyrights (for a quick fee) and is recognized by your country, would be faster.

[Dinkleberry2010]

to be copyrighted or have a work copyrighted here in the U.S., you have to go through the Library of Congress. One of the duties of the Library of Congress is dealing with copyrights. You may be able to have your work copyrighted in another country but it would not apply to the U.S. because you must go through the Library of Congress here in the U.S. to obtain a copyright in this country.

[Jozanny]

Uh, folks, if you have your original draft, hard copy, or on your drive, that usually serves to establish copyright. I do not know what this obsession is on this network with submitting to DC. Waste of time, even for self-publication. Google copyrights our posts as soon as we click them, though LN, like other boards, or forums, owns first printing rights along with deletion rights, which they reserve. In my case, I submit for publication, and if a publisher accepts, it is understood that they have taken first printing rights, whether or not I get paid.

If other rights are at issue there is usually a contract, standard terms being your manuscript is released back to you after 90 days for resale, and royalties through publisher resale are also addressed in these agreements. Publishers like Writers Digest offer classes on copyright issues. Perhaps it is something for you to consider, as I have addressed copyright countless times on this forum.

[Dinkleberry2010]

pygmyhippo wants to get a copyright of his or her work partly because s/he has had problems with theft--with people actually stealing his or her work. S/he is not concerned with having something posted on the internet. And getting a copyright is not a waste of time. A copyright proves that the work is your property.

[pygmyhippo9]

Thanks Jermac! Yes, I'm only worried about my book. I could care less about what I post on the internet. I find a lot of people tend to think getting copyrighted is a silly formality until someone actually steals their work. When it happens it's a scary thing.

But either way, the current issue is even getting my work to get copyrighted in the first place. Two years isn't acceptable. I don't know what else I could possibly do besides keep calling every month or so and they only end up extending when they will release my copyrighted work. I need a fast forward button pronto. I feel like just submitting the whole thing again to see if that one makes it through. But I know this would only confuse them more.

[Jozanny]

pygmy,

If I may ask, why are you worried about theft? I can understand that not everyone who uses a writing forum is ready to submit work for publication, but I have to say, I started getting my work critiqued as a teen, by writing teachers, and by the age of 24 I was a published poet and went on from there. Most editors and publishers are not interested in theft, because they know it doesn't pay to try to steal original works and there are easier ways to earn money, and truth be told, the same really applies to posting material online. Sure, copy applications lead to unethical behavior, but if you wrote it first, a plagiarizer has little chance, virtually none, on earning a profit from lifting an exact manuscript of an original creator.

I do not post drafts online, don't need to, because my acceptance or rejection rate speaks for itself, but my work is archived online and I don't worry. I know I published it first, and if an experienced writer takes an idea from what I did, they are usually experienced enough not to take so much as to worry about infringement. It is a very high bar, trust me.

Do as you wish, but this is a lot of energy wasted. I take ideas from other writers, and I have earned money off of secondary media sources and have published many other things from life experience. I've never been sued and never sued other poets who fed off me, and used previously published material of my own to keep earning money. If your work ever gave me an idea, by the same token, it would not be infringement of your copyright as long as I did not use your plot or characters or poems verbatim.

What are your goals? If it is to be a published writer sharing your stuff online is not the best way to achieve that, and copyrighting just to share is not the protection you may believe it to be.

[pygmyhippo9]

Jozanny,

Well, first of all I'm worried about theft because I've already had someone steal my stuff and I don't want it to happen again. I do not post drafts online and never would, and I'm not sure why you keep thinking that my thread revolves around me posting work on the internet. That's not my question and I really don't care about posting material online. I'm not sure you understood my original question.
I'm a fiction writer, and publishing fiction and poetry are completely different things. I appreciate your input but I almost feel as if you are addressing a different thread.

[Jozanny]

But then, as a fiction writer, you should know that a publisher will usually request substantial revisions, making your copyright of your first draft questionable as a legal protection, and that a publisher who accepts your work copyrights; that is what they are paying you for. As I said, an excessive redunancy--and, if someone did plagiarize you, proof of first draft has the force of law, inclusive of a postage seal on an envelope.

Putting the horse before the cart is playing rather long odds, but I am sorry for your experience.

PS: I am a published fiction writer as well as a poet and professional disability journalist, and as a reporter I know something about the legality of which I speak.

*****
I think many aspiring authors who post in this forum misunderstand what a copyright is for. It was created, primarily, to protect the economic asset of the product, whether it is a book, song, movie, painting. But it is not a safety deposit box for untested writers, which is why aspiring authors waste their time procuring their own copyright, just as, in 95% of all cases, aspiring authors fail at self-publishing.

Copyright is most useful for established authors, whose reputation and work are essentially their brand, re: Dr. Creeley's copyright of his vast collection of poetry in the 80's in a sense functions as his trademark of his Beatnik and post-Beatnik years, and he could seek legitimate economic redress if anyone tried to pass his poetry off as their own.

Unknown authors very rarely have this luxury, which is not to say pygmy doesn't have any legal options if her work was ripped off, but you really should prepare and submit work for publication, and not getting a copyright in DC before publication; life really doesn't work that way for authors.

[Dinkleberry2010]

a copyright was not created to protect the economic assest of the product. What a copyright does is to show, legally, that the work is the writer's property, and that no one has the right to publish, reproduce, copy or transfer the work without the author's permission or consent.

[Jozanny]

I think we are confusing terms. A manuscript is not property, not like the concept inherent in intellectual property rights. You, Jermac, already have the right to copy your own work as many times as you wish. The copyright seal developed as an economic means so that some of us would not starve to death. The publisher pays you for first printing rights and or any other rights you sell them, and then they in turn make money on the right to sell those copies.

I am not against the copyright mark, or using it wisely, as I am thinking of compiling a kindle edition of my previously published articles and non-fiction, and even I am going to need help with certain technicalities in the process of putting this together--but I am against what I see people on this network doing in terms of abusing what a copyright was never designed to do.

Most of you aren't going to be the next Rowling--that is just a fact of life--and even I, willing to concede that I have an inflated opinion of my own ability, will probably just wind up as a footnote. Work hard, take classes, revise, and hire a damn agent, and stop making fortuitous demands on the executive branch.

[Dinkleberry2010]

A manuscript is property. I quote from Webster's Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language: property--that which a person owns; the possession or possessions of a particular owner. Again I quote from Webster's Dictionary: copyright--the exclusive right, granted by law for a certain number of years, to make and dispose of and otherwise to control copies of a literary, musical, or artistic work.

[Jozanny]

You do not publish property Jermac; most writers and musicians and other artists create to be recognized in the public domain, but at this point, I will leave off discussing these points with other members. I came up, luckily, through some valuable and experienced professionals who taught me at Poets & Writers, and I really cannot make the time and effort available to play pied piper on this forum when I am getting nothing back in return. I wish you all the best. Perhaps a few of you will learn how to become published and professional.

[Dinkleberry2010]

Jozanny, I was a journalist for more than forty years--I was a newspaper reporter, compositor, and editor. That's what I did for a living. I have had dozens of short stories published and received payment for them; I have had dozens of poems published and received payment for them; I have had plays both produced on stage and published. I have much more experience and knowledge about publishing and copyright than you.

[Jozanny]

Jozanny, I was a journalist for more than forty years--I was a newspaper reporter, compositor, and editor. That's what I did for a living. I have had dozens of short stories published and received payment for them; I have had dozens of poems published and received payment for them; I have had plays both produced on stage and published. I have much more experience and knowledge about publishing and copyright than you.

Well, if you have that experience, you know full well that the process does not always nor should it include having a writer apply for copyright prior to publication, and you also know what I am saying about proof of first draft, so I don't know what your resistance is about. It is impractical and inefficient for pygmy to apply for a copyright everytime she thinks she's finished with something.

The internet may have changed a few things, and if digital technology has me thinking about vanity publishing then a new day has dawned, but it hasn't changed that most people actually enjoy the quality of the things produced, and that is why I will always believe in middlemen, inclusive of editors with the power to hurt our feelings by saying no.

And, if you want to conceive of your writing as *property* fine, but who owns the posts on LitNet? I certainly do not keep a file of my written posts, and they enter into the public domain of this community. The fact that we can and do manipulate content doesn't make ownership exclusive, and once it is out there, it is no longer *ours*. It always involves a dynamic exchange between creator and consumer.

[wlz]

Put the original manuscript in an envelope, seal it, stamp it or register the package, and sent it back to yourself through the post, of course. Well, at least it costs less and takes less time also.

[xtianfriborg13]

I didn't know it would copyrighting that long!