Proust.

[wlz]

"The reality that I had known no longer existed. [...] The places we have known do not belong only to the world of space on which we map them for our own convenience. They were only a thin slice, held between the contiguous impressions that composed our life at that time; the memory of a particular image is but regret for a particular moment; and houses, roads, avenues are as fugitive, alas, as the years." - Marcel Proust, 'Swann's Way'.

I thought I'd give a quote from one of my many favourite novels.

Any Joyce, Eliot, Pound & Proust fanatics among ye readers & writers?

wlz.:brickwall

[Dr Jekyll]

Well, I have always admired T.S. Eliot's poems and they have helped me in getting my writings to a much higher degree. His "The Waste Land" still remains as one of my favourite poems I've read.

[Dinkleberry2010]

wiz, when you think that Swann's Way was written between 1909 and 1913, it simply blows me away. Proust was so far ahead in just the way he wrote that I think only Franz Kafka and James Joyce--and maybe Henry James--can compare.

As far as T.S. Eliot goes, whether you like him or not, I think most would agree that The Waste Land is the pivotal poem of the twentieth century.

[wlz]

Thank you for getting in touch, Jermac. I must say we have some big names on our list. Am I drawing wrong conclusions when I assume you don't like Eliot? Eliot doesn't seem to hold much weight in the eyes of the Irish - the great poets of the Romantic era being favoured, but I believe Eliot has been voted as Britain's favourite and most read poet of the 20th Century. I guess the Romantics come closer to our own traditions and folklore here than the likes of Eliot and the Modernists. This might give you a clue as to where where we Irish stand culturally, Jermac. Most people in Ireland still think of bards & limericks! (Well in Donegal anyway, ha ha.)
Proust's work is fabulous. And you are right, there are only a small number of other authors who may be compared. I have to admit though, I must read Proust in translation because my French is just average in conversation so making any attempt to read the likes of a great writer in that beautiful language would be a heartbreaking procedure with little enjoyment. This is a problem I have had for many years when taking up the French poets to read. Unfortunately time has not been on my side to learn the language properly. To mention only a few, I would love to read Rimbaud, Baudelaire and Verlaine in their own tongue! How much does translation affect one's overall impression of a work? Any thoughts on this?
I want to add a name to our list of greats that may compare: perhaps you'll disagree, but I think this writer is one of the most powerful I have been reading in recent years and his style is as powerful and captivating as those mentioned. The author is William Faulkner, and the novel I have in mind at the moment is 'Light in August'. This work has power. The pasages describing the character 'Christmas' are very vivid in my mind. A great author and a very strong character, don't you think? The Southern Gothic Literary Tradition offered up some great works in literature. I wish Capote had done more.
Anyway, thanks again, Jermac, wlz.

[Dinkleberry2010]

wiz, I think a strong case can be made that T.S Eliot was the greatest poet of the twentieth century (I'm not saying he is, I'm just saying a case can be made; others may think Yeats was the greatest poet; others may consider Robert Frost or Dylan Thomas to be).

I'm half-Irish myself--my father is full Irish and my mother is full French. I think James Joyce is vastly overrated; of course some think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. We all have our own opinions.

As for Faulkner, I find some of his work difficult to comprehend--mainly it's the way he wrote, not what he wrote, that sometimes causes me difficulty, but that's a problem with me--not with Faulkner. I consider Faulkner to be up there with the greatest novelists of the twentieth century, and I think he is the greatest American novelist. He beats Hemingway by a mile.

[wlz]

Here's a poem I think appropriate for just this time of year Dr. Jekyll, hope you enjoy. I must admit, Eliot is quite possibly my favourite poet.

Journey of the Magi - by T. S. Eliot

'A cold coming we had of it,
Just the worst time of the year
For a journey, and such a journey:
The ways deep and the weather sharp,
The very dead of winter.'
And the camels galled, sore-footed,
refractory,
Lying down in the melting snow.
There were times we regretted
The summer palaces on slopes, the
terraces,
And the silken girls bringing sherbet.

Then the camel men cursing and
grumbling
And running away, and wanting their
liquor and women,
And the night-fires going out, and the
lack of shelters,
And the cities hostile and the towns
unfriendly
And the villages dirty and charging high
prices:
A hard time we had of it.
At the end we preferred to travel all
night,
Sleeping in snatches,
With the voices singing in our ears,
saying
That this was all folly.

Then at dawn we came down to a
temperate valley,
Wet, below the snow line, smelling of
vegetation;
With a running stream and a water-mill
beating the darkness,
And three trees on the low sky,
And an old white horse galloped in
away in the meadow.
Then we came to a tavern with
vine-leaves over the lintel,
Six hands at an open door dicing for
pieces of silver,
And feet kicking the empty wine-skins.
But there was no imformation, and so
we continued
And arrived at evening, not a moment
too soon
Finding the place; it was (you may say)
satisfactory.

All this was a long time ago, I
remember,
And I would do it again, but set down
This set down
This: were we led all that way for
Birth or Death? There was a Birth,
certainly,
We had evidence and no doubt. I had
seen birth and death,
But had thought they were different;
this Birth was
Hard and bitter agony for us, like
Death, our death.
We returned to our places, these
Kingdoms,
But no longer at ease here, in the old
dispensation,
With an alien people clutching their
gods.
I should be glad of another death.

[wlz]

Have you heard Eliot's very own recitation of this poem or any other for that matter?

[JackieGinger]

How much does translation affect one's overall impression of a work? Any thoughts on this?
I've tried Joyce's The Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man in Hungarian. I'm not saying that it was bad or not precise enough, but I preferred to read it in English, when managed to get a copy.
I'd definitely vote for literature to be read in the language it was written, and especially poetry.
wlz you should try reading a translation first, then the original, it makes it a whole lot easier (my French is not really good, so I read a translation of one of Baudelaire's poems, and after it I read the original, it was an enlightening experience)

[Dinkleberry2010]

I once substituted taught for one day a college Composition I class for a professor friend of mine. I decided that instead of lecturing or discussing, I would simply put on a recording of T.S. Eliot reciting a few of his poems, one of which was The Journey Of The Magi. The reaction of the students was phenomenal. They literally went nuts. They were emotionally and intellectually moved--they had, to put it simply, never heard anything like it. For them, poetry had become alive--it was something that you didn't just read on a page, but something that you heard, that you listened to, that you felt. I still can't read or hear The Journey Of The Magi without being physically, emotionally and mentally moved. The same goes for Dylan Thomas. To hear Thomas recite Fern Hill will cause a physical reaction in my body, as well as affect my mind and emotion.

[wlz]

Yes, I agree... a poem has a source of great power that has similar affects on me. And a given poem emits even more of that power, albeit, that trace of magic present in great works when recited. Especially when recited by the original author or poet. I have had various responses of mixed feelings by individuals listening to poetry. Anyway, for what its worth, I am leaving a list of my favourites:

1) The Waste Land/Journey of The Magi/Prufrock by T. S. Eliot, (I could listen to his priestly voice all day long).
2) Sestina Altaforte by Ezra Pound. (POWERFUL!!)
3) As I Walked Out One Evening; Funeral Blues, both poems by the great man, W. H. Auden.
4) Howl by Allen Ginsberg. (EXASPERATING!!)
5) Fern Hill & Do Not Go Gentle, both poems by Dylan Thomas. (Simply Fabulous.)
6) Futility by Wilfred Owen. I put this poem on my list because it is a favourite of mine though I have yet to hear Owen's recitation of it. I don't believe I know if such a recording exists, however, I have heard other audio versions of the poem which never impressed me as the speaker communicated the work too fast or pronounced the piece too poorly and thus lacking the feeling I thought it should be given.

[wlz]

Thank you, JackieGinger, for the advice... I shall try doing such in the future. I must say that I am interested in what it must be like to read one of my favourite authors in Hungarian. I can't imagine it really. Did you enjoy the novel? Have read much of Joyce's work?

[Dinkleberry2010]

This is off the subject of T.S. Eliot or Proust, but it concerns poetry recitation. The best poetic reciters I have ever heard are Orson Welles and Vincent Price--and they both recited works of Poe. They are simply magnificent in their reciting.. As far as a poet reciting his own works, I think Dylan Thomas can't be beat.

[wlz]

Jermac, you'll have to forgive any digressions that I have made over the several posts written. I wasn't sure how the Forum worked. In fact, I am still trying to learn how this blasted computer works. Up until a year ago I used a typewriter for any writings that I had to do. By times, I wonder if I'd be better off returning to the older methods used because it is so very easy to become distracted with the internet when I should be writing. The internet disguises procrastinating as research and there's less guilt involved for my having done little work. Had I realised the pattern used by this forum I would have probably called the thread 'Poetry Discussions' or something of the sort rather than 'Proust' because it is in poetry that I find most interest. Apologies for my lack of understanding with this forum and aloof attitude to computers.

"Alas! I have nor hope nor health,
Nor peace within nor calm around" - SHELLEY.

You probably like the Romantics...?

[wlz]

I am afraid to say that Thomas could never be a favourite poet of mine because I think his poetry makes its appeal easier to some mentalities due in part to the fact that it shows at times a vulgar display of emotions and comes with a sense of sentimental drivel. It's almost like an old sean-nos bar-room ditty one is listening to when hearing a recitation, but on the other hand, this would be quite appropriate all things considering! I would prefer that poetry offered solace rather than illustrating personal suffering and base fears puked out as a form of art.

[Dinkleberry2010]

wiz, I couldn't disagree with you more concerning Dylan Thomas, but that's more than okay. Literary and artistic disagreements on this site are part of what makes it such a great site.