The Pros and Cons of Celibacy

[soundofmusic]

This is basically a continuation of the very popular thread: Benefits of Chastity and Celibacy. It has been removed from the Religious thread so that we may consider all of the mental, physical, and spiritual advantages and disadvantages of Celibacy in a mature and accepting fashion.

What is your opinion? Is a celibate lifestyle practical? Does it improve athletic performance? Does it make one more spiritual, closer to nature?

[blazeofglory]

Celibacy is not only a matter of physicality it is a state of mind. Even if you restrain your physical sexual activities, you may still dream of some sensual activities. Then how can you be clean of it?

[MarkBastable]

If we're going to start - or continue - this discussion, can we at least lay down the ground rule that no one makes reference to celibacy in terms of 'purity', 'cleanliness', or any other 'makes your whites whiter' phrase, and that sex is not referred to in terms of 'impurity', 'baseness', or any similar words that have connotations of dirtiness.

I mean, if we start with that implicit prejudice, the conversation's a tad skewed from the kickoff, isn't it?


Does <celibacy> make one more spiritual, closer to nature?

If it does, that seems to me to be reason enough to reject it.

[soundofmusic]

Celibacy is not only a matter of physicality it is a state of mind. Even if you restrain your physical sexual activities, you may still dream of some sensual activities. Then how can you be clean of it?

An interesting thought, Blaze. I think that those who hope to gain some mental and physical advantages from celibacy are of the impression that they do this by first working on the outside man. They do this in the hope that eventually, the sub-conscious will follow.
Is this possible at the peak of ones health and sexuality?
Do you mean, nocturnal emissions which is just a physiological release of semen; or are you talking about actual dreams? Personally I only have dreamed of sexual activity when my imagination was stimulated by beauty, guilt or fear; then again, I am a woman and was married most of my adult life.


If we're going to start - or continue - this discussion, can we at least lay down the ground rule that no one makes reference to celibacy in terms of 'purity', 'cleanliness', or any other 'makes your whites whiter' phrase, and that sex is not referred to in terms of 'impurity', 'baseness', or any similar words that have connotations of dirtiness.

I mean, if we start with that implicit prejudice, the conversation's a tad skewed from the kickoff, isn't it?

The original forum had been very popular and a number of excellent side conversations had emerged: alternative lifestyles, health issues concerning sexual activity, the "norms" of sexual behavior and animal behavior, etc. Unfortuantely, because the topic began in a religious forum; we constantly risked offending some of our peers. I hope that with this new thread, because it is on a general chat thread, we can examine several of these side issues. Those who wish to examine chastity from a religious point of view only, may choose to remain on the original thread.




If it does, that seems to me to be reason enough to reject it.

:nod: Yes, well....I'm speechless...:redface:

[blazeofglory]

The original forum had been very popular and a number of excellent side conversations had emerged: alternative lifestyles, health issues concerning sexual activity, the "norms" of sexual behavior and animal behavior, etc. Unfortuantely, because the topic began in a religious forum; we constantly risked offending some of our peers. I hope that with this new thread, because it is on a general chat thread, we can examine several of these side issues. Those who wish to examine chastity from a religious point of view only, may choose to remain on the original thread.

In fact we are too much obsessed with religious points of view when it comes to celibacy but what I think is it is a moral and social issue too and why should not we view it from other points than just the religious one.

[MarkBastable]

Yes, well....I'm speechless...

Why? I'm simply saying that I don't want to get any closer to nature, and I don't think that it's always a good thing to be more spiritual.

If you told me that celibacy would get me closer to downtown, and that it would make me more intellectual, I might give it some thought.

[Mathor]

Does it improve athletic performance? Does it make one more spiritual, closer to nature?

Nah it's the other way around. Sex is nature. The idea of celibacy is to ignore nature for some sort of ethical reason. Hogwash if you ask me.

[blazeofglory]

What about sexual abuse like rape and molestation?

[*Classic*Charm*]

Nah it's the other way around. Sex is nature. The idea of celibacy is to ignore nature for some sort of ethical reason. Hogwash if you ask me.


What about sexual abuse like rape and molestation?

Rape and molestation are not nature. The inference then is that ignoring or suppressing one's sexual tendencies is to create more rape and molestation.

As was mentioned earlier in another post, the rate of sex crimes has been decreasing since the increase in availability of internet pornography, some of which caters to the idea of pedophilia and molestation. I won't go off on a tangent about the porn industry, but if people harbouring these thoughts can, for lack of a better term, "take care" of this on their own instead of suppressing it to the point where they actually abuse someone, that's fine by me.

Also, for anyone who is arguing for the benefits of chastity and celibacy, how are masturbation and/or oral sex applied to that situation?

[blazeofglory]

The point is we humans make misuse of it and there is balance in nature. Man is at times oversexed and unseasonably and inappropriately. Our society is not in balance, and man makes overuse of it. We know man overbalance nature and so is sex and this backs up the fact that sexual behaviors must be restrained to some extent

[*Classic*Charm*]

The point is we humans make misuse of it and there is balance in nature. Man is at times oversexed and unseasonably and inappropriately. Our society is not in balance, and man makes overuse of it. We know man overbalance nature and so is sex and this backs up the fact that sexual behaviors must be restrained to some extent

So you're saying that rape and molestation are misuses of sex. I agree.
You're saying that those who wish to commit such acts should refrain from doing so. I also agree with that. Those are extreme cases and those people have far bigger problems than an over-active sex drive. They need to be restrained in ways other than just refraining from sex- they need to be removed from society altogether. I don't really see that case as being particularly relevant to the issue at hand: how does celibacy benefit the average person?

If something is good for my health, makes me happy, and has the same benefits for another, why shouldn't I do it? No one is harmed, and those involved are benefitted.

What does it mean to be "oversexed"? What does it mean to "overbalance nature"? And how does cutting something out altogether restore any sense of balance, if balance is your argument?

[blazeofglory]

In fact all I mean to say is that man violates natural laws; we are increasingly engaged in disrupting natural order and regulation. It is evident from the overexploitation of resources out of our greed. We are creating threats to ecology and that ultimately destroy natural habitats. That man is a greedy and amoral creature is always true. Restraint or moderation is necessary in his case. Sex is one of the things man makes misuse of and that is the reason so many innocents fall victims to misuse or sexual harassment. Man must be taught to use it properly thru education and moral persuasion. Almost all religions have recommended moral codes when it comes to dealing with the issues of sex. I do not stress celibacy totally but what I meant to balance it is educate people about it and so that they would not misuse it and it creates a good amount of understanding.

In Hinduism there are four ways of life: first Brahmacharya, i.e., celibacy up to the age of towenty two or twenty five, and there are other three ways that do not bear any relevance here and I refrain from describing them. Imagine if a student indulges in sexual activities in his early twenties we know the consequence. There are values in all cultures and religions and they are not all false.

[soundofmusic]

Why? I'm simply saying that I don't want to get any closer to nature, and I don't think that it's always a good thing to be more spiritual.

If you told me that celibacy would get me closer to downtown, and that it would make me more intellectual, I might give it some thought.[/QUOTE

I saw some recent polls from the UK: there has been a campaign which gave out "morning after" pills to young people; hoping that this would decrease the surge in teenage pregancy. It claims that there was no decrease in teenage pregancy; but there was a significant increase in sexually transmitted disease.

You make an interesting point; I notice, among my peers at work, that those who seem to give little significance to sex, manage to "get closer to downtown". They don't seem to be intellectual beings, more goal oriented.

[QUOTE=*Classic*Charm*;801655]

Also, for anyone who is arguing for the benefits of chastity and celibacy, how are masturbation and/or oral sex applied to that situation?

I always thought of oral sex or masturbation as a precursor to intercourse; or something to be used when one needs a really good nights sleep. It seems that some have a preference for those. Prosthetics also seem to be very common with single people as well as couples.
I would think that one is celibate as long as they are not "with another person"; what are your thoughts?

[*Classic*Charm*]

I always thought of oral sex or masturbation as a precursor to intercourse; or something to be used when one needs a really good nights sleep. It seems that some have a preference for those. Prosthetics also seem to be very common with single people as well as couples.
I would think that one is celibate as long as they are not "with another person"; what are your thoughts?

Hmm I think it's a difficult distinction to make, because my initial thought would be that to be celibate, the line would be drawn such to make penetration the standard for what counts as sex. This, however, then includes female masturbation as something to be avoided, but male masturbation is okay. That hardly seems fair.

I would assume that a celibate person would refrain from oral sex and masturbation. The idea is to ignore the urges and restrict pleasure, is it not? If one can achieve the same level of satisfaction and pleasure from these, I would think that they too would be avoided.

[soundofmusic]

In fact all I mean to say is that man violates natural laws; we are increasingly engaged in disrupting natural order and regulation. It is evident from the overexploitation of resources out of our greed. We are creating threats to ecology and that ultimately destroy natural habitats.

In Hinduism there are four ways of life: first Brahmacharya, i.e., celibacy up to the age of twenty two or twenty five, and there are other three ways that do not bear any relevance here and I refrain from describing them. Imagine if a student indulges in sexual activities in his early twenties we know the consequence. There are values in all cultures and religions and they are not all false.

You bring up a good point, Blaze: one that we may not be able to appreciate fully in wealthier countries. I noticed that(in a Unicef study) in Nepal, 42% of girls are given in marriage between the ages of 15 and 19; their parents do this to keep them virgins until marriage, and to assist their own financial status. In this context, I can see that the idea of constraint may improve the countrys finacial condition. Do you think this study is accurate?
Do you feel that the Hindu practices and teaching has been effective?


Nah it's the other way around. Sex is nature. The idea of celibacy is to ignore nature for some sort of ethical reason. Hogwash if you ask me.

Many will agree with you:lol:
:idea: Perhaps the athletes in Platos time were claiming to be abstinate ("not touching women or young boys" as he stated) instead of admitting erectile dysfunction and a low libido during heavy training.
Is a low libido and erectile dysfunction common with heavy training, or stress?


Hmm I think it's a difficult distinction to make, because my initial thought would be that to be celibate, the line would be drawn such to make penetration the standard for what counts as sex. This, however, then includes female masturbation as something to be avoided, but male masturbation is okay. That hardly seems fair.

I would assume that a celibate person would refrain from oral sex and masturbation. The idea is to ignore the urges and restrict pleasure, is it not? If one can achieve the same level of satisfaction and pleasure from these, I would think that they too would be avoided.

Yes, I suppose the idea is to concentrate on other things instead of sexual gratification; but as Blaze mentioned before, it just pops its annoying little head up in dreams...
I have never found masturbation, with or without a lover, as emotionally gratifying as intercourse. I have also noticed that when one becomes accustomed to manual stimulation; there is some difficulty with premature ejaculation or delayed ejaculation.
What are your thoughts?

[OrphanPip]

Rape and molestation are not nature. The inference then is that ignoring or suppressing one's sexual tendencies is to create more rape and molestation.

How do you come to that conclusion? Bonobo chimpanzees are well known to molest their children, and rape is hardly a rare occurrence amongst animals. When you can't compete against the other males for the female, the evolutionarily advantageous course is to sneak in and ravage the female.

I don't think we should be determining the worth of any action through its "naturalness" or "unnaturalness."

[soundofmusic]

I think we may be discussing two different concepts of Rape and Child Molestation:
Serial Rape and Serial Child Molestation: I think everyone agrees it is an aberration of human behavior.
There is also the Rape and Child molestation of children through child marriage; this is common practice in other countries. In 2006, Britain set up a unit to assist children as young as 13, who were being forced into marriage; in 2008 they received 5000 calls for assistance.

And what of animals. It is true, Now it is quite common to see hordes of ferrell males chasing one female; but was that always the case. At one time, didn't the strongest control his pack, deprive the weaker males of food and territory until they starved to death?

[Dirtbag]

More and more studies are showing that decreased sexual activity yields lower testosterone levels. Having a normal amount of testosterone is beneficial to your health as you're less likely to be afflicted with cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's, and depression. Not only does it prevent physical and mental ailments but it helps develop muscle mass and incites risky behaviour. My advice is to continue thinking dirty thoughts to keep those hormone levels normal... for the sake of your well-being.

[*Classic*Charm*]

How do you come to that conclusion? Bonobo chimpanzees are well known to molest their children, and rape is hardly a rare occurrence amongst animals. When you can't compete against the other males for the female, the evolutionarily advantageous course is to sneak in and ravage the female.

Very fair point. I didn't consider that. I think the big difference in this situation though is the idea of sex for pleasure vs. sex for reproductive purposes. This obviously doesn't encompass your example of the molestation in chimps, but how about "rape" in animals? To do so is definitely an instinct, but I'm guessing most people don't commit rape following a reproductive instinct.


I don't think we should be determining the worth of any action through its "naturalness" or "unnaturalness."

I agree with you. I was just trying to take Blaze's argument somewhere.


Yes, I suppose the idea is to concentrate on other things instead of sexual gratification; but as Blaze mentioned before, it just pops its annoying little head up in dreams...
I have never found masturbation, with or without a lover, as emotionally gratifying as intercourse. I have also noticed that when one becomes accustomed to manual stimulation; there is some difficulty with premature ejaculation or delayed ejaculation.
What are your thoughts?

How does that affect its inclusion/ exclusion from a celibate lifestyle?

[soundofmusic]

More and more studies are showing that decreased sexual activity yields lower testosterone levels. Having a normal amount of testosterone is beneficial to your health as you're less likely to be afflicted with cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's, and depression. Not only does it prevent physical and mental ailments but it helps develop muscle mass and incites risky behaviour. My advice is to continue thinking dirty thoughts to keep those hormone levels normal... for the sake of your well-being.

:lol: Risky behavior :goof: Yes, the last time I started working out I started listening to Eminem and that song, "Before he cheats", running red lights, and always telling people the truth!:p



How does that affect its inclusion/ exclusion from a celibate lifestyle?

I recently read an article on world religion that, sort of , put abstinence and Celibacy on a scale. Celibacy was considered something that is avoiding all forms of sexual behavior for some greater purpose. Abstinence was either chosen or not; and therefore could be temporary, and one could choose how much he/she abstained.

When in a relationship, I have tried to exclude sexual gratification measures with my partner that cause negative side effects like premature ejaculation or delayed ejaculation. Unfortunately, the sexual behaviors that cause difficulty are usually their favorites...And, of course, we aim to please our partner.
Since I've been a widow, I have chosen to remain celibate. I am not one for partial gratification: I eat the most fattening ice cream, butter, drink the best liquors and coffee and if I am to have sex, it will be with a man, not a vibrator or my right hand. It's been so long now, I almost forget that men are men when I'm talking to them; but I have not become at all spiritual or intellectual.:(

[*Classic*Charm*]

I recently read an article on world religion that, sort of , put abstinence and Celibacy on a scale. Celibacy was considered something that is avoiding all forms of sexual behavior for some greater purpose. Abstinence was either chosen or not; and therefore could be temporary, and one could choose how much he/she abstained.

When in a relationship, I have tried to exclude sexual gratification measures with my partner that cause negative side effects like premature ejaculation or delayed ejaculation. Unfortunately, the sexual behaviors that cause difficulty are usually their favorites...And, of course, we aim to please our partner.
Since I've been a widow, I have chosen to remain celibate. I am not one for partial gratification: I eat the most fattening ice cream, butter, drink the best liquors and coffee and if I am to have sex, it will be with a man, not a vibrator or my right hand. It's been so long now, I almost forget that men are men when I'm talking to them; but I have not become at all spiritual or intellectual.:(

I see. I understand what you mean about "partial pleasures", but I still don't understand why one would choose to be celibate unless recovering from some sort of traumatic experience. I don't see any sort of health benefit, nor to I buy it as the suggested method of "maintaining balance".

[soundofmusic]

I see. I understand what you mean about "partial pleasures", but I still don't understand why one would choose to be celibate unless recovering from some sort of traumatic experience. I don't see any sort of health benefit, nor to I buy it as the suggested method of "maintaining balance".

You're very insightful, Classic Charm. Many people, myself included, take up celibacy as a way to avoid reliving trauma or tragedy. Others, may take it up as a way to avoid the secondary responsibility that seems to come with intimacy. Love comes with a hefty pricetag: a mortgage, years of child-rearing, in-laws, sickness and eventually death.

[*Classic*Charm*]

You're very insightful, Classic Charm. Many people, myself included, take up celibacy as a way to avoid reliving trauma or tragedy. Others, may take it up as a way to avoid the secondary responsibility that seems to come with intimacy. Love comes with a hefty pricetag: a mortgage, years of child-rearing, in-laws, sickness and eventually death.

Thank you, and I'm sorry to hear that.

I suppose the next question comes from a different standpoint. I agree with you that an individual may become celibate as a means of avoiding the secondary responsibility (I like that term, btw) associated with sex. I think it far more likely that people choose promiscuous sex as a means of avoiding responsibility than celibacy, but that's another topic altogether.

So what of couples who maintain a monogamous, loving relationship but who do not, or extremely rarely, have sex. For example, I know a couple who have been together for three years (which is a decent amount of time when you're my age :rolleyes:), who have has sex fewer times than you can count on one hand. It simply doesn't seem to be an important part of their relationship. That is a form of abstinence, no? I can think of no reason why two young people who are in love would not have the desire to be intimate.

[MarkBastable]

So what of couples who maintain a monogamous, loving relationship but who do not, or extremely rarely, have sex. For example, I know a couple who have been together for three years (which is a decent amount of time when you're my age :rolleyes:), who have has sex fewer times than you can count on one hand. It simply doesn't seem to be an important part of their relationship.

I think that, by definition, 'abstinence' involves a deliberate and active resolution to avoid or refuse something. It's the complement of 'indulgence'.

So if it's not something you particularly want to do, not doing it isn't really abstinence (though it might, almost accidentally, be celibacy).

Yes, this is semantic nit-picking. I'm all for semantics.

[soundofmusic]

So what of couples who maintain a monogamous, loving relationship but who do not, or extremely rarely, have sex. For example, I know a couple who have been together for three years (which is a decent amount of time when you're my age :rolleyes:), who have has sex fewer times than you can count on one hand. It simply doesn't seem to be an important part of their relationship. That is a form of abstinence, no? I can think of no reason why two young people who are in love would not have the desire to be intimate.

Thank you, Classic Charm,
Did you know the individuals of the couple before they were together? Were they sexually active with others? Sometimes people who are very good friends become a couple because they share so many things in common, they like the companionship; but are not sexually intimate. Some people really have very little desire to have sex. I became aquainted with a couple, who claimed they were not a couple (one had HIV); but always disappeared together when I came to their home...I began to think I was the impetus for their intimacy.

It's all rather difficult, I married my best friend when I was 26 (we were friends since I was 14); at the time, it was a matter of financial need, we enjoyed each others company (we would talk on the phone sometimes for 4 hours) and our former mates had always assumed we were sexually intimate (we were not). I found that with marriage, the whole balance of the relationship went topsy-turvy. It never occured to me that someone I loved and found desirable could be such a turn-off in bed. So there it was, we loved each other dearly and were not in the least attracted to each other in the bedroom. We were jealous when one would find someone they were attracted to...He once cut the left half of 12 of my wigs because I flirted with my 18 year old lawn boy. Sometimes, we met other people and made an attempt to have a sexual relationship; but those people wanted and deserved someone who could give themselves fully...We were somehow attached, unable to move until his death.


I think that, by definition, 'abstinence' involves a deliberate and active resolution to avoid or refuse something. It's the complement of 'indulgence'.

So if it's not something you particularly want to do, not doing it isn't really abstinence (though it might, almost accidentally, be celibacy).

Yes, this is semantic nit-picking. I'm all for semantics.

That is a wonderful point, Mark; and very intelligently worded!

[Michael T]

:p A short period of celibacy can be beneficial because when you finally have sex again you realise how crazy and utterly pointless your abstinence was - thus focusing the mind on making sure you indulge as often as is humanly possible from then on. Lack of opportunity is the only sane excuse for abstinence and probably the main reason people claim to be celibate for whatever reason. I am sure this view on celibacy only heightens the older and closer you come to death. I believe that if, by some quirk of nature, humans became more physically able and attractive the older they became, then all elderly people would be at it like rabbits all day long! ;)

[soundofmusic]

I believe that if, by some quirk of nature, humans became more physically able and attractive the older they became, then all elderly people would be at it like rabbits all day long! ;)

Good point, Michael T. and oh, if it were only possible! I have a few friends who, in their late 50's are trying to "make up for lost time". They've suddenly become very temperamental and limp a good deal of the time.

[Scheherazade]

:p A short period of celibacy can be beneficial because when you finally have sex again you realise how crazy and utterly pointless your abstinence was - thus focusing the mind on making sure you indulge as often as is humanly possible from then on. Lack of opportunity is the only sane excuse for abstinence and probably the main reason people claim to be celibate for whatever reason. Is it safe to assume that this is the advice you give to your own children?

:p

[MarkBastable]

Is it safe to assume that this is the advice you give to your own children?

:p

It's certainly the advice I give to my parents.

[soundofmusic]

Is it safe to assume that this is the advice you give to your own children?

:p

:lol: Excellent point, Scher, our children do seem to hear everything we say and everything we don't; even though they seem to be "hearing impaired" in their teens. I've noticed, over the years, that allowing the children to witness my "achilles heel"; they have become an extremely "moral lot", though one wouldn't know it by listening to their conversation:eek:


It's certainly the advice I give to my parents.

:cool: I'll bet you're your parents favorite child; You'd be mine:wave:
Yes, my friends all tell me that increased sexual activity is great for the over 50's set; if they didn't look so arthritic, and limp all the time; I might take their advice. I can't argue because they blast their heavy metal and the beatles in my ear:smash:

[Michael T]

Is it safe to assume that this is the advice you give to your own children?

:p


My greatest fear is that she will figure it out for herself! I keep showing her brochures for nunneries but her heart seems set on university ...sigh! ;)

[soundofmusic]

My greatest fear is that she will figure it out for herself! I keep showing her brochures for nunneries but her heart seems set on university ...sigh! ;)

;) Well, all the better then; nothing worse than a nun who has discovered the joys of an active sex life:eek:...except, maybe a priest who has discovered an active sex life; people follow them to Italy for a shot on the beach:nod:

[blazeofglory]

;) Well, all the better then; nothing worse than a nun who has discovered the joys of an active sex life:eek:...except, maybe a priest who has discovered an active sex life; people follow them to Italy for a shot on the beach:nod:

What you said is tru

[soundofmusic]

What you said is tru

Yes, it is interesting, isn't it Blaze. People hover in corners to talk about sexually active nuns and shout priests indescretions from the rooftops.

I'm never sure why people are so surprised when they see high-profile religious people being indiscriminate. It's difficult to keep a spiritual focus when your path is constantly littered with praise, women, and gold coins.

[MarkBastable]

It's difficult to keep a spiritual focus when your path is constantly littered with praise, women, and gold coins.



Oh, I dunno. You get used to it.

[soundofmusic]

Oh, I dunno. You get used to it.

:cool: Tell us more, Mark. Are you one of the modest few who manage to feed the frenzied flocks, stave off the worshiping women and return the gold to the poor?

[Silas Thorne]

'a shot on the beach'!:lol: Love it! Smoke of the holy love gun Batman!

[blazeofglory]

Celibacy is possible only when you restrain your mind and you do it with a rope the way a rider reins in on its transport. In the Upanishads, there is a beautiful comparison. The mind is like a pair of horses dragging a chariot and the driver is the conscience and the soul is the charioteer. And if the bridle is strong you can control your horses, that is, your desires and you cannot control them always. The horses of your desires are bound to look else where and you cannot control them however much you whip them

[soundofmusic]

Celibacy is possible only when you restrain your mind and you do it with a rope the way a rider reins in on its transport. In the Upanishads, there is a beautiful comparison. The mind is like a pair of horses dragging a chariot and the driver is the conscience and the soul is the charioteer. And if the bridle is strong you can control your horses, that is, your desires and you cannot control them always. The horses of your desires are bound to look else where and you cannot control them however much you whip them

Lovely analogy, Blaze:nod:

[Granny5]

My question would be why would anyone choose celibacy? I can see it being forced upon someone, as in the illness or death of a partner, but I just can't see waking up one morning and deciding that "I'm not going to have sex for next day/week/month/year." Why would someone make that decision?

[ennison]

It's quite comon in some cultures to make such a decision but in ours (Nuns and RC priests excepted) it is more likely to be forced on us by widowhood.

[soundofmusic]

When most people are talking about sex; are they talking about having a relationship? Would you find sex necessary without a relationship? While I am an older widow, the possiblility of "sex" knocks on every door. There are sex toys, computer dating sites, young people and divorced parents who consider me desirable because I am "settled"; I simply don't find any of these a decent subsitute for "chemistry with someone".
What are your thoughts?

[Haunted]

When most people are talking about sex; are they talking about having a relationship?

In the perfect world, sex has no strings attached and relationships are optional.




Would you find sex necessary without a relationship?

Now, in the not so perfect world, sex is a neccessity, much like the TV remote.

[soundofmusic]

In the perfect world, sex has no strings attached and relationships are optional.

Don't you think that people always gravitate towards a relationship; if only to control when the other leaves?

Now, in the not so perfect world, sex is a neccessity, much like the TV remote.

Love the analogy; what I like abouth the TV remotes is that they are universal, so they work on all tvs and get every channel.:D


In the perfect world, sex has no strings attached and relationships are optional.
Now, in the not so perfect world, sex is a neccessity, much like the TV remote.

Don't you think that people gravitate toward relationships, if only to control when the other leaves?

I like the remote analogy; I like remotes, they are universal, so you can use them on any tv and control all the channels at the same time:D

[Haunted]

Don't you think that people gravitate toward relationships, if only to control when the other leaves?

Nay. Relationship means commitment, and commitment is a very scary word.


I like the remote analogy; I like remotes, they are universal, so you can use them on any tv and control all the channels at the same time:D

I don't have a universal remote — never attracted to the idea of having just one device, and so I shall remain a multiple-remote person. I guess that'd make you a remote control freak, and me, a polygamist of remotes ;)

[blazeofglory]

When most people are talking about sex; are they talking about having a relationship? Would you find sex necessary without a relationship? While I am an older widow, the possiblility of "sex" knocks on every door. There are sex toys, computer dating sites, young people and divorced parents who consider me desirable because I am "settled"; I simply don't find any of these a decent subsitute for "chemistry with someone".
What are your thoughts?

In point of fact relationship and sex are two things and that tone with each other and without it sex becomes ugly

[gbrekken]

Did Kinsey write about this subject, even as ill-defined as we have it here?

[MarkBastable]

In point of fact relationship and sex are two things and that tone with each other and without it sex becomes ugly

That's a bit judgemental, coming from a philospher.

[soundofmusic]

Did Kinsey write about this subject, even as ill-defined as we have it here?

Don't you imagine we're alot more honest that the people in Kinseys day; I can just see him walking up to some sweet housewife in her heels, silk stockings and pleated skirt saying "have you ever masturbated"... Oh did he ask the women that?


That's a bit judgemental, coming from a philospher.

I believe Blaze is just giving his opinion; and personally, I find sex without the benefit of some steady relationship a bit destabilizing. It's like having a revolving house and having to constantly look for the bathroom and kitchen:eek2:

[Scheherazade]

I believe Blaze is just giving his opinion;That might be so but I think his posts in this thread and in the infidelity thread are clashing.

[soundofmusic]

That might be so but I think his posts in this thread and in the infidelity thread are clashing.

Yes, I can't quite imagine what Blaze experiences every day, sitting in his bedroom in India and being aware of all the terrible things going on right outside of his window because of a lack of the control he speaks of ; yet, writing on his computer, he is connected to another world with entirely different ideas of sexual behavior.

[Scheherazade]

Yes, I can't quite imagine what Blaze experiences every day, sitting in his bedroom in India and being aware of all the terrible things going on right outside of his window because of a lack of the control he speaks of ; yet, writing on his computer, he is connected to another world with entirely different ideas of sexual behavior.Truth be told, I am not sure what you mean in your post and how it is supposed to help interpret the differences in his posts in different threads.

Havind said that, I think I am about done here; so, no worries.

:)

[soundofmusic]

Truth be told, I am not sure what you mean in your post and how it is supposed to help interpret the differences in his posts in different threads.

Havind said that, I think I am about done here; so, no worries.

:)

I hope you will continue to post on this site, as well as others, Scher, we all enjoy your comments!

[papayahed]

When most people are talking about sex; are they talking about having a relationship? Would you find sex necessary without a relationship? While I am an older widow, the possiblility of "sex" knocks on every door. There are sex toys, computer dating sites, young people and divorced parents who consider me desirable because I am "settled"; I simply don't find any of these a decent subsitute for "chemistry with someone".
What are your thoughts?

To me having "chemistry" is nice, but when you have an itch that needs scratching and there is no special guy why deny yourself.. To me sex is natural, it's about two people enjoying each others company and giving each other pleasure.

[soundofmusic]

To me having "chemistry" is nice, but when you have an itch that needs scratching and there is no special guy why deny yourself.. To me sex is natural, it's about two people enjoying each others company and giving each other pleasure.

I constantly find myself learning from you, papayahead! When there is no special guy; what is the criteria for the man you are with? What do you do to orgasm if you are not attracted to him.
That is the difficulty I recall with my marriages: I didn't love my first husband, nor was I attracted, so I tried to imagine someone else...that wasn't to hard because he didn't expect much participation. I loved my second husband; but wasn't attracted to him in bed. It was difficult to try to get an orgasm though; he wanted active participation and I had "run low" on fantasies.:redface:

[papayahed]

I constantly find myself learning from you, papayahead! When there is no special guy; what is the criteria for the man you are with?


:blush: It has to be someone I like and both parties need to understand the "relationship".

[blazeofglory]

Yes, I can't quite imagine what Blaze experiences every day, sitting in his bedroom in India and being aware of all the terrible things going on right outside of his window because of a lack of the control he speaks of ; yet, writing on his computer, he is connected to another world with entirely different ideas of sexual behavior.

I Understand your dilemma of understanding me as I use different ideas in different threads. All I want to be is honest. I do not want to hook myself like a philosopher who is always inflexibly hooked sets of ideas.

Ideas change. We humans are confused. different ideas evolve and revolve around us at different times and one idea may clash or contradict with another. Should I stick to one particular thought? Besides, we are here all set to share what crops up in our minds and I think that does not demand of us to be rigid to particular ideas. I am not from India.I am from Nepal.
Your are right I am connected to another world where ideas on sexual behavior is rather different and liberal.

I agree my ideas oftentimes seem contradictory. I am totally aware of them. But as I said earlier I want to be honest to what I feel at that particular moment. At one moment I maybe hooked to particular ideas and I may agree with those things and express here and at another moment I may have a different opinion and I put forth them.

In fact all of us are a little confused lots. Should we think and write fixedly, rigidly? Do not our ideas change quite often? When we read different books, listen to different people our ideas maybe shaped or conditioned and our expressions become then influenced.

[soundofmusic]

I am not from India.I am from Nepal.
Your are right I am connected to another world where ideas on sexual behavior is rather different and liberal.

I agree my ideas oftentimes seem contradictory. I am totally aware of them. But as I said earlier I want to be honest to what I feel at that particular moment. At one moment I maybe hooked to particular ideas and I may agree with those things and express here and at another moment I may have a different opinion and I put forth them.

In fact all of us are a little confused lots. Should we think and write fixedly, rigidly? Do not our ideas change quite often? When we read different books, listen to different people our ideas maybe shaped or conditioned and our expressions become then influenced.

I'm sorry Blaze, I had looked up your city; but in most of our literature, it makes reference to India.
We all have contradictory thoughts all of the time; It's what makes us human. I have often thought that your situation must be particularly difficult, though; because with the forum here, you are in two cultures at once. We all appreciate your thoughts.


:blush: It has to be someone I like and both parties need to understand the "relationship".

:cool: That's so cool! Have you had any guys who say they understand the relationship and start stalking you afterwards:D

[blazeofglory]

I'm sorry Blaze, I had looked up your city; but in most of our literature, it makes reference to India.
We all have contradictory thoughts all of the time; It's what makes us human. I have often thought that your situation must be particularly difficult, though; because with the forum here, you are in two cultures at once. We all appreciate your thoughts.

I understand it. In fact Nepal and India are culturally one though they are two geopolitical countries. And I confess you are totally right and as I am from a different cultural background and all I wrote is not exactly what happens in our society. Ours is a very traditionally rooted country with all age-old values. Faith, fidelity, trust are some of the values that are always greatly cherished in our part of the world.

What I agree with you is also on the fact that I am in two cultures at the same time and most of what I write down here come from what I read in western books and western cinemas and I have no firsthand knowledge of your cultures and I neither have been to your countries nor ever have I discussed other than on forums.

All that make my ideas contradictory but I suppose I do not bore you with my ideas.

[Shalot]

In my opinion, I don't think that there are any pros of celibacy. Sex is a healing act when done with someone that you love. It is unhealthy to suppress your sexuality. I read some book about sexual energy and its healing properties. It was very interesting and a welcome change from the chastity talks I got growing up.

[soundofmusic]

I understand it. In fact Nepal and India are culturally one though they are two geopolitical countries. And I confess you are totally right and as I am from a different cultural background and all I wrote is not exactly what happens in our society. Ours is a very traditionally rooted country with all age-old values. Faith, fidelity, trust are some of the values that are always greatly cherished in our part of the world.

What I agree with you is also on the fact that I am in two cultures at the same time and most of what I write down here come from what I read in western books and western cinemas and I have no firsthand knowledge of your cultures and I neither have been to your countries nor ever have I discussed other than on forums.

All that make my ideas contradictory but I suppose I do not bore you with my ideas.

You are refreshingly honest and forthright, Blaze; and never boring. There was a time when the very same ideals you speak of in your culture were a part of American culture. There were always times when the economy was lagging; but people stood by their word and their products. If a man fathered a child, he admitted it and took responsibility.We were responsible to our children and our elderly. That is what kept our economy and our family units strong. It amazes me sometimes when I see how much America has changed in only 50 years.


I read some book about sexual energy and its healing properties. It was a welcome change from the chastity talks I got growing up.

Yes, I often think those "chastity talks" do more harm than good; since I was brought up in a fundameltalist church I also got the: 26 hours of labor followed by a dead mother and baby and the story about the ballet dancer that didn't go to church, got into a car accident and got both her legs cut off:cold:

Of course, I'm still trying to figure out where all those sexually and intellectually satisfying partners are. I used to tell people that to have a perfect relationship, a woman needed 3 men: one to talk to, one to sleep with and the other to bring home a paycheck:lol:

[gbrekken]

The holy trifecta! we may never start with the three-in-one, but hopes arekept for the development of the same. :)

[soundofmusic]

The holy trifecta! we may never start with the three-in-one, but hopes arekept for the development of the same. :)

Ever since Barack, Buddy, I figure any dream is possible (So does Sarah):lol:

[atiguhya padma]

Celibacy isn't such a bad thing, after all, if the celibates keep up the good work, they'll improve the quality of the gene pool.

[soundofmusic]

Celibacy isn't such a bad thing, after all, if the celibates keep up the good work, they'll improve the quality of the gene pool.

Brilliant atiguhya, as usual, you're right on point:lol: Has anyone figured out how to get the royal family to go celibate; I just can;t think of one more child looking like Charles;)

[MANICHAEAN]

Whoops. Let he who casts the first stone!
Its not only Charles who has big ears!

[Haunted]

I used to tell people that to have a perfect relationship, a woman needed 3 men: one to talk to, one to sleep with and the other to bring home a paycheck:lol:

Which one will take out the trash? May I suggest 4...

[soundofmusic]

Whoops. Let he who casts the first stone!
Its not only Charles who has big ears!

Touche Manichaean:thumbs_up; What can I say, It was in to be politically correct this season: so we cast about for middle-aged women who rode moose and shot bears, old war heros who shot friends, toast colored intellectuals that were still near Chicago action...but, we only keep them in for 4-8 years; long before they corrupt the gene pool.


Which one will take out the trash? May I suggest 4...

:idea: Gosh, you're right; and one to do the lawn...Do you think they will all bring home paychecks. I always find husbands that stop working when I start;)

[gbrekken]

each and everyone of us should sticke to realijty. Celibat4e? so what hey who where when.

Human touch is required to feel human. that's a 5 senses type thing. ner touched equal never human? Who would know? what woud it matter? what's true to self worth?" Fidelis, even if it only be to one's self.

Is it possible that all a man need do to to be a good man is to leave you?

sorry i'm not wellwer

[soundofmusic]

each and everyone of us should sticke to realijty. Celibat4e? so what hey who where when.
Human touch is required to feel human. Fidelis, even if it only be to one's self.
Is it possible that all a man need do to to be a good man is to leave you?

:lol: If touch is required to feel human; what do people with those prosthetic scissor hands do when they touch themselves....:eek:

Oh well, so much for levity, You made a solid point, my friend::thumbs_up

I would have to say that the only person, man or woman, that a person longs for forever is the one who leaves.

[gbrekken]

so the fourth man walk out the door, and you don't tnink the trash has been taken out?

A local establishment that allows me had this to ay about me



















Celibate human equals untouched person.

"what mean you to weep and break my heart? Wee p not for me but for yoursleves and for our children." supposedly said by Jesus

Buy, pay, truth, i an imagine an aesthete I should probably say goodnite.

I don';t any of us ever talked much with helen keeler, or mr merric k. Some woman just took (attempted) the wind out of my fair hairless sails? Now I'm really going to be come uncelibate.

[soundofmusic]

so the fourth man walk out the door, and you don't tnink the trash has been taken out?

A local establishment that allows me had this to ay about me

Celibate human equals untouched person.

Then the establishment does not perceive your great worth as we do, my dear gbrekken.
I am celibate because I was touched; just not the way I liked:brow:


"what mean you to weep and break my heart?

Buy, pay, truth, i an imagine an aesthete I should probably say goodnite.

Then we shall dust your ears with fairies wings and line your heart with gold:)


I don';t any of us ever talked much with helen keeler, or mr merric k. .

Interesting point, I wonder what kind of noises Helen Keller would make in bed. Would having sex with John Merrick be considered be.... Oh, never mind

Where are you hiding your hairless sails:D

[gbrekken]

My long, and long overdue haitus begins shortly. I am celibate. I do not recommend it for any but the most principled. True to self (fidelis), I don't accept gifts motivated by pity, nor do I demean the giver/gift or purchaser/supplier by visiting business establishments legally established for the purpose of providing for those wishing to be incelibate. Ahuman child ignorant of human touch may be less than what is expected of human definition. While "doing it" has the possibility of elevating the human experience to one of its own ultimate levels, in and of, and for and only for itself, it also has the possibility of lowering to utter meaninglessness. It does fit the definition of sublime at its best. peace out.

[soundofmusic]

My long, and long overdue haitus begins shortly. I am celibate. I do not recommend it for any but the most principled. True to self (fidelis), I don't accept gifts motivated by pity, nor do I demean the giver/gift or purchaser/supplier by visiting business establishments legally established for the purpose of providing for those wishing to be incelibate. Ahuman child ignorant of human touch may be less than what is expected of human definition. While "doing it" has the possibility of elevating the human experience to one of its own ultimate levels, in and of, and for and only for itself, it also has the possibility of lowering to utter meaninglessness. It does fit the definition of sublime at its best. peace out.

You are a great romantic, gbrekken. I have never had pity sex; well, except in the blessed state of matrimony when it is not only allowed but sometimes advisable. My friends all tell me that they have only had sex during their marriage when "they wanted to"; I am curious whether they are lying to themselves or are just very selfish. Surely, someone has had sex with their partner when they are inebriated, or you have fallen "out of like" with them, or you have a headache?

[JuniperWoolf]

The idea that celibacy brings people "closer to nature" seems stupid to me. Sex IS nature.

[SleepyWitch]

My question would be why would anyone choose celibacy? I can see it being forced upon someone, as in the illness or death of a partner, but I just can't see waking up one morning and deciding that "I'm not going to have sex for next day/week/month/year." Why would someone make that decision?

I did that once. I was fed up with guys and couldn't be bothered with a relationship. And seeing as I'm not good at having one-night stands and don't know any guys who are either, the only way to avoid ending up in a meaningless "relationship" that is no more than a threadbare justification to have sex, I decided it would have to be celibacy for me. So I was celibate (as in not involving another person) for 3 years until I felt I was ready for a proper relationship. Why 3 years? Because I managed the first 2 easily and thought 'why not make it three'?
Is it difficult? No, not really, when you have other things to do and friends to spend time with.
Did it have any effect on me? Yeah, I guess it made me a little aggressive. But that allowed me to pour all my energy into my studies and sports, so that wasn't such a bad thing.

[atiguhya padma]

I appreciate those who feel they cannot have sex outside a 'meaningful' relationship, but I also think it is a sad state of affairs that there are some who somehow cannot have sex without all the burdens, the baggage, the compromises that a 'meaningful' relationship entails. Sure there may be many positive, passionate things about a continuous sexual relationship. There are also passions and romance about having sex with someone you know little about. In short, i think sex is too powerful, too important to be restricted to a particular type of relationship.

[soundofmusic]

I appreciate those who feel they cannot have sex outside a 'meaningful' relationship, but I also think it is a sad state of affairs that there are some who somehow cannot have sex without all the burdens, the baggage, the compromises that a 'meaningful' relationship entails. Sure there may be many positive, passionate things about a continuous sexual relationship. There are also passions and romance about having sex with someone you know little about. In short, i think sex is too powerful, too important to be restricted to a particular type of relationship.

:eek: atiguhya, you are always astounding me! What, do you feel, you experience from sex with a stranger?

[atiguhya padma]

Excitement, nervousness, uncertainty, an electric feeling of deep passion that is enhanced by not knowing so much about a person. Sometimes you might meet someone at a time and a place that makes you feel alive with an energy that encompasses you and them in a maelstrom of emotion that lives as much in that moment, in that space, as it does within you or them. To deny that feeling because you do not know enough about that person is an absurdity: there is both romance and passion in that brief moment, in that spontaneity of your raw emotion. Knowledge can add nothing to it. The Romantics knew what I am talking about. The Victorians did their best to deny it, to kill it.

[dianeee0905]

I thnk that you would have to actually go through it in order to say how it helps you. I personally think that it makes you appreciate a close relationship with someone emotionally. many people base relationships with sex. so i think that it makes a point

[The Atheist]

I appreciate those who feel they cannot have sex outside a 'meaningful' relationship, but I also think it is a sad state of affairs that there are some who somehow cannot have sex without all the burdens, the baggage, the compromises that a 'meaningful' relationship entails. Sure there may be many positive, passionate things about a continuous sexual relationship. There are also passions and romance about having sex with someone you know little about. In short, i think sex is too powerful, too important to be restricted to a particular type of relationship.

That is absolutely brilliant!

[soundofmusic]

Excitement, nervousness, uncertainty, an electric feeling of deep passion that is enhanced by not knowing so much about a person. Sometimes you might meet someone at a time and a place that makes you feel alive with an energy that encompasses you and them in a maelstrom of emotion that lives as much in that moment, in that space, as it does within you or them. To deny that feeling because you do not know enough about that person is an absurdity: there is both romance and passion in that brief moment, in that spontaneity of your raw emotion. Knowledge can add nothing to it. The Romantics knew what I am talking about. The Victorians did their best to deny it, to kill it.

:alien: Okay, Yes, I had forgotten about all of that:brow: I think I always felt those same emotions with anyone whom I really liked until I slept with them and knew I could control the relationship: know that they would arrive to a date, call the next day, continue to want me...

I must admit; There have been times when I have shared "instant chemistry" with a stranger; but the fear of STD's (and I really am not into using all of those protective devices that make one have to second guess every start) has always kept me "clean and sober"

[The Atheist]

:alien: Okay, Yes, I had forgotten about all of that:brow:

How could you forget about that??


I think I always felt those same emotions with anyone whom I really liked until I slept with them and knew I could control the relationship: know that they would arrive to a date, call the next day, continue to want me...

God, you were such a chick!


:I must admit; There have been times when I have shared "instant chemistry" with a stranger; but the fear of STD's (and I really am not into using all of those protective devices that make one have to second guess every start) has always kept me "clean and sober"

Luckily, I'm old enough not to have ever needed to bother with all that stuff - my sexual predation peak was firmly in the years after the birth of the pill and before the rise of AIDS.

I'm quite certain that if I were 22 right now, I'd be one of those foolish ones whose idea of protection is sunglasses.

[soundofmusic]

How could you forget about that??

God, you were such a chick!

Luckily, I'm old enough not to have ever needed to bother with all that stuff - my sexual predation peak was firmly in the years after the birth of the pill and before the rise of AIDS.

I'm quite certain that if I were 22 right now, I'd be one of those foolish ones whose idea of protection is sunglasses.

:confused: Well, you know, its been like 28 years since I felt all of those feelings at once. I felt a few of them more recently; but there was that fear of "instant Karma" always hanging over my head...

Oh yes, the control thing. My neighbor claims it's because I'm a Scorpio!

I've never tried sunglasses:lol: Yes, I too was at my sexual peak in those days! The birth control pills were awfully strong then: I had like major hormone overload; and I gained...well, enough that I couldn't show my cute 23" waist. I liked those inverted things the ladies used; well, at least better than condoms.

[The Atheist]

:confused: Well, you know, its been like 28 years since I felt all of those feelings at once. I felt a few of them more recently; but there was that fear of "instant Karma" always hanging over my head...

Haha! I can relate to that.

I have a standing deal that if Rhonda snuffs it, I'll be hookers only from now on. I could be celibate like the moon could be green cheese.

:lol:

But yes, the thought of the one-night stand would be tremendously appealing, but the following thought of what comes after it would soon turn me off like a switch.


Oh yes, the control thing. My neighbor claims it's because I'm a Scorpio!

Wow! That is accurate. Amazing thing is with women, it also denotes Cancer, Capricorn, Pisces and about 5 more. The only one it can't be part of is whatever my wife is. Among all of her myriad faults, controlling ain't one of 'em. (I did check, I keep a list ;))

Blame your genes - it's innate that women want to rule the world. Personally, having seen the results of 1000,000 years of male domination, I'd be prepared to give you a go.

If you got rid of those scary hairy sheilas.


I've never tried sunglasses:lol: Yes, I too was at my sexual peak in those days!

Nothing to do with sexual peak - that's around 50 for men.

Just in those days I had far fewer morals. (read: none at all)


The birth control pills were awfully strong then: I had like major hormone overload; and I gained...well, enough that I couldn't show my cute 23" waist. I liked those inverted things the ladies used; well, at least better than condoms.

:lol:

"Dutch caps" they used to be called. Haven't seen one of them for many years. Cunning contraception plan. I always thought it worked just as well as a chastity belt.

[soundofmusic]

Wow! That is accurate. Amazing thing is with women, it also denotes Cancer, Capricorn, Pisces and about 5 more. The only one it can't be part of is whatever my wife is. Among all of her myriad faults, controlling ain't one of 'em. (I did check, I keep a list ;))

Blame your genes - it's innate that women want to rule the world. Personally, having seen the results of 1000,000 years of male domination, I'd be prepared to give you a go.

If you got rid of those scary hairy sheilas

"Dutch caps" they used to be called. Haven't seen one of them for many years. Cunning contraception plan. I always thought it worked just as well as a chastity belt.

You mean there is one womans sign that doesn't want to rule the world; not even from afar...maybe it's just because she has a practical fellow like you around; maybe you fulfill all of her needs:idea:

Ah yes, the Dutch caps...yes, I liked those; well, as long as one didn't hang by a fan:lol:

[Leannain]

My long, and long overdue haitus begins shortly. I am celibate. I do not recommend it for any but the most principled. True to self (fidelis), I don't accept gifts motivated by pity, nor do I demean the giver/gift or purchaser/supplier by visiting business establishments legally established for the purpose of providing for those wishing to be incelibate. Ahuman child ignorant of human touch may be less than what is expected of human definition. While "doing it" has the possibility of elevating the human experience to one of its own ultimate levels, in and of, and for and only for itself, it also has the possibility of lowering to utter meaninglessness. It does fit the definition of sublime at its best. peace out.


It depends on the person you sleep with, that is, if we are balancing the cons and pros of being celibate.

Celibacy doesn't mean you stop being a sexual creature. You can still be sexual albeit in a more personal experience.

Those pros, well, you don't risk getting a woman pregnant. You don't risk getting ticked into a 'oops' pregnancy(meaning, she either punctured your condoms or lied; said she was on BC but wasn't).

Celibacy also teaches you to focus your energy on yourself. Say, some will still be sexual while others will use that sexual drive(a huge male drive) to perfect their art; Tesla was one of those followers.

You don't get any std when you are celibate.

In the same wave, you don't have to put up with anyone(girlfriend/wife/boyfriend/husband), with their emotional needs or their sexual needs.

When you stop caring about other people you are released from an obligation. Societies obligation to perpetuate the species(breed and support a family) you are handled an infinite array of choices, time and the salvation from stress.

There's also a nice little bonus to celibacy. The more you go without sex, the more your desire/lust for it lessens.

People who indulge in sex in great quantities will become slaves. Slaves of their urges.


The evil side of sex - more and more human beings harbor stds. The most common is HPV. HPV is linked with Genital warts, prostate cancer, cervical cancer etc. There are at least, 4 strands of HPV.

You can have sex with condoms but the truth is, condoms aren't bullet proof. They don't null the risk of stds; only lower it. There are studies made on condoms efficiency on protecting from HPV and it seems, there's a 70% chance a male has of catching it.

More so, more throat like sexual practices are usually done to several sexual partners without condoms(a little bit of protection) which means, the person(who or man) who does the act has a great chance of developing throat cancer.

That's only as far as HPV.

There are myriads of stds. My urologist tells me of the many patients he has; people thinking they can get only get stds if they don't use condoms. Well, most of the patients he has have herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea etc.

Sex also means you are viable.. to become a father. The condom can break(trust me, a little rough exercise will break it), the condom might be defected, the woman's BC(the pill) can fail because she has a cold, or her body rejects the pill, or whatever.

Sex also means she can trick you into becoming a dad. Remember, you have obligations, never a right. A woman can abort your child if she feels like it or, she can make you pay child support for 18 years old; she can also manipulate you into marriage(then, steal alimony and the house from you).

Also, there have been many cases of false rape reports. With that, I mean, a woman goes to a bar/club, hits on a man(or is seduced) sleeps with him, wakes up next day feeling like a "prostitute", picks up a phone and reports a rape.

Or, you fail(or to you, it was just sex) to call her the next day: she thinks you used and abused her; rape report.

There also been cases of women having sex then when the parent/friends found out, those females cried "rape" lest someone thinks of her/them as "prostitutes."

Sex is also a drug. The more you do it, your brain releases hormones that make you bond and crave sex.

Guys and gals; most guys claim to have a high quantity of sexual partners while women claim to have a far lower number. What gives? Men are lying, or it's a small sect of the males getting all the sex(the most attractive of males), or women are far more sexual than they claim to be?

Funny, heh?

Now, one can argue that those women and men carrying stds are either club hoppers, prostitutes, or Players.

No, because studies show that most people will have a std. Which means, most people you interact with and you lust after, have at the very least HPV. Which means, you suffer the very high possibility of getting std infested.


From a logical point of view; sex is too troublesome, too dangerous and too prone to go wrong.

From an emotional point of view; humans seem to need physical contact and to have someone to call "boyfriend" and "girlfriend."

If you happen to be lucky enough to find a virgin( a true virgin: no sexual contact with anyone and that includes kissing) sure, go for it. But, if you are like most human beings you'll encounter people with sexual pasts and the risks are grand and mighty.


To finish this up:

Condoms don't protect, only minimize. Safe sex is a lie. Protected sex is a projection by the manufacturers of condoms, with the intuit of selling.

Sex with a condom well, feels awfully :blush:.

You risk getting a woman pregnant, or getting tricked by a woman to marry her/have a kid with her.

The feel good hormones released during sex can be released whenever you want, how much you want, by exercising(running, weight lifting etc) or by using the most primeval of all sexual releases.

So what's the positive's in sex?

For me, what are the positives of sex?


Breasts and kissing both aspects of sexual interaction I can more than less live without.

And guys: one little advice.

Stay away from women in their 30's. If they are single, they are single for a reason. Mainly, they wanted to concentrate on a career. Now that their "baby rabies" has hit, they'll look for a guy who'll father her kids. She can either make you marry her or she'll steal your used condoms/don't use birth control etc.

For this reason, sperm donation has halted into drying up..in Australia, a woman can go to a sperm bank, get pregnant then track down the sperm provider and demand child support. That's why women, more and more women in their 30/40's are freezing their eggs while waiting for the charming prince - who will never arrive.


ps: Yes, society needs people to reproduce, raise families and work 9 to 5 soul - crushing jobs to sustain itself.

But that's the thing. Why worry about it? You only have one life. Don't waste it by doing "the right" thing; invest it, make yourself happy, release yourself from your biological and social conditioning.

:blush:

[Zee.]

And guys: one little advice.

Stay away from women in their 30's. If they are single, they are single for a reason. Mainly, they wanted to concentrate on a career. Now that their "baby rabies" has hit, they'll look for a guy who'll father her kids. She can either make you marry her or she'll steal your used condoms/don't use birth control etc.


I'm sorry, you seem smart, i've read many of your posts but that right there is the dumbest thing i've read in a very, very long time..


It also makes you sound like people are 'picking' people to be with, opposed to simply .. falling in love, regardless of age or whatever other factor.


Edit - also, i'm sorry, but it sounds like you're being deprived or something..

read over your post, it's quite ridiculous.

[Leannain]

I'm sorry, you seem smart, i've read many of your posts but that right there is the dumbest thing i've read in a very, very long time..


It also makes you sound like people are 'picking' people to be with, opposed to simply .. falling in love, regardless of age or whatever other factor.


Edit - also, i'm sorry, but it sounds like you're being deprived or something..

read over your post, it's quite ridiculous.



Tell that to the many poor fellas who ended up victims of what I'm talking about. Falling in love? I think most of us here have let go of the High School mentality. When I was younger(these days, I lack the desire to interact with them), I would see these same women interact with me with fun in their mind. Not "love." I was aggressive(still I am), didn't care about anything at all, and I was angry at the world.

Those factors triggered a woman's attraction to me. Younger women my age and older women. But women, when they began to have a more "settled" mentality, that is, wanted to have children and a husband; they go for the responsible, with a good safety nest(money) like some of my more reserved and they either have children with them or have children with other guys but let these more stable guys raise the children as their own, many times without knowing.


Does this sound "romantic"? No. No one said life was meant to be romantic. This is fact. have you ever dated a woman who is in "settling" down mode? I have.

Her questions are around this: "Do you have a job?" "what do you think you are going to be doing in 5 years?" "Do you have your own house?" "Do you want children?"

Some have tried to make me not use a condom. others have tried to fish the condom out of the bin. Funny thing is, I don't, when I have sex, ever get the clothes off . I literally do the deed dressed so I can snatch the condom and store it somewhere safe. My parents raised no fool. Sometimes I follow the woman to the bathroom and I find her going through the trash, mad that she can't find the condom. That's funny!

I have several friends who had vasectomies done and keep quiet. Then, they get a girlfriend(many of them are decent, career women) sleep with them and she says she's on the BC. They, chuckling on the inside ascribe to this notion, have sex with her without the condom; a few months later: surprise! You are going to be a daddy.

I've lost count of how many times they've come to me laughing, telling me that they've shown the sperm count report to them; the women denied being at fault. The baby is born, my friends demand an ADN test: The woman disappears.

These 30 year old women, when they realize I'm not going to spend money on them, that I am only interested in having fun(because I don't want to spend my life working soul - destroying jobs to support a family or worse, have my house(a full paid 4 room house) and alimony, they move on to other guys. Guys who never had much female attention hence, they fall for this strategy.

Between the reality of being a cad or a provider; it's better to be a cad but now, I'm tired of women and I want to invest my time in something useful. Like Literature.

I'm not picking on anyone, lass. This whole feminized world that makes men bend over to please and support women is what annoys me. Saddens me as well.

Love. Marriage. Feminine social constructions to bind men to women. Hormones and emotions are easy to create. I can create them inside a woman by being sweet, indifferent, caring, a jerk; by writing poetry, by picking her up, by hugging her.

Love is nothing more than the reaction of an action. And emotions are temporary while problems and consequences are forever.

You speak the truth about one thing. I am an intelligent man. Intelligence is to be used in everything. What can I do then, but apply this intelligence on interpersonal relationships and see the pros and cons of it, comprehend that there are no positives in it, that I have a high chance of falling out of it damaged in some way and that I can be controlled by the female and the state if I give in to my biological imperative?

What you are trying to do with "love is this and that" and "I thought your posts were intelligent until I saw this and now I see you are ridiculous" are nothing more than shaming language, meant to make me dress a white knight armor suit and follow the rest of the males, chasing after women, pleasing women, giving in to women(attention, gifts, my emotions, my time, my genetic material) and be a slave to my urges.

Ah, the most mystical of all Scorpios has broken all rules, all demands and obligations expected out of him and now, he lives a lifetime free of stress, drama, children and demanding women.

Love? Marriage is a contract. Didn't you know that? or you're avoiding that issue? if you aren't aware, in Australia, you only need to live with a woman 6 months for the govt. to make both of you legally married.Moreso, if a woman starts calling herself Mrs. Smith(Smith being your last name), you are doomed; you are the husband and now you are responsible for her.

Besides, remember college? Women will go to college, get student loans, then get out college, marry and guess what? the husband will have to pay for the loans.

Another funny facet of "love" is women having fun with the likes of me when they are the prime of their beauty(18 to 25) then get married to a stable, provider. Well, so what is a man? an entertainer? he's there to provide the emotions and feelings and drama and then, the next stage of her life is the guy who'll provide financial security?

Sadly, the 30 year old woman, even if she's secure in her career, independent and all, she'll still seek a guy with at the very least as much academic education as her and more than less, a guy who earns more than her.

I'm not up for that. If I interact with women on a sexual level(and that desire is lowering as I grow older), I interact with women who'll give me a bit of satisfaction and that woman is the 18 to 25 year old woman. The rest of women, the older, are too dangerous.

I pity these fellas who get married, you know, sooner or later, the woman will divorce him(that usually happens after 4 years into the marriage. Gotta love love, right?) take from him everything he has, leaving him miserable, depressed and dead.

Did you know that most marriages are ended by women? And that many, many males who are divorced end up killing themselves or living in poverty because they have to pay alimony? There was a case of a man who divorced his wife 25 years ago. All of a sudden, the woman approaches a judge and demands alimony because she's bankrupt. Guess what? She got it.

lastly, I have too much to loose(houses, money, my freedom, my man - child status) and too little to gain by "falling in love".

What am I again? 15 year old?

I have to admit that you do have a knowing eye for realizing my high quality, so kudos to you and for that, for your clarity of spirit I won't instill into this post a lot of more reasons why marriage or a serious relationship(or even casual sex) is too much of a risk, I'd dabble on the lies feminism has created and sold to men but alas, the soap opera is on and I feel graceful tonight.

So guys, if you want to have fun with women; do so. It's quite easy. Don't present yourself as a reliable mate, show yourself as an irresponsible, James Dean persona and sex will flow like water. But, my knowing advice to you is to forget it all and concentrate on making yourself what you want to be. A writer? A painter? a race car driver? All the world's professions and mastery are open to you if you decide to not support a family that will end up stabbing you in the back.

Myself? I thank my father - for working a soul - crushing job, because it's the right thing to do. Immediately, it came to me that slavery is still very much alive. And I thank my mother. She always told me never to fall for the lies of feminism, her, being a feminism herself, on of the first of my Country also shaped my path into Liberty, greatness and a long, long lifetime with youthful looks and body because I don't have to work for anyone but me and, because I have inherited money from my ancestors(being the last male of the line helps) I don't have to work at all; and no one, no woman is going to touch my money, even if it was on a "date."

The greatest energy of love is love for itself. By loving yourself, you are experiencing true, everlasting love.

And when women come out with the "people fall in love and love is important " and what not, those same women are the women who will divorce you a few years after when the love hormones wear off with the excuse "I'm sorry, I love you, but I don't love you anymore."

Ya know why my ancestors marriage lasted a lifetime? Because they knew love is transient, but dedication is key for marriage. Try to tell that to women now. They' demand an exciting, full of drama and emotions, personal life. The feelings cease to exist? You can kiss your relationship goodbye.

And man, do I love shaming language. Always tickles my engines.

So honey, not only I am a very gifted poet, a rather intense and exciting young male and intelligent; I am too smart to fall, aha.

[Zee.]

That's a lot to respond to so i'll just make this simple because i can't really be bothered, if i'm honest, to get in to a debate about it.


Sounds like you're bitter. I mean, you're making a very big generalization about women. A big one. I'm a woman and i don't apply to most of what you have just said.

I find the way you talk about marriage quite interesting. I don't know about anyone else and i can't speak for anybody else but i personally, am not a person of convenience. I know that when i marry, it'll be out of love. Sure, people fall out of love, and when that happens, relationships end.. marriage, ends. But that's life i guess. It depends on the person. Simple minded people who live life like it's a clock - hit an age, freak out, and begin to tick off a list.. marriage, babies..retirement. I'm only 18 but I know for a fact I won't live my life like that. I'm rambling but meh,

it kind of sounds like you're being a downer about natural.. exciting things in life. You've had your bad experiences, yeah, but i suppose you've just met the wrong kind of people for YOU

[Shalot]

I just wanted to reply to a couple of Leann's points:

1. I think there are a lot more than 4 strains of HPV...there's quite a few - possibly 100. Some cause cervical cancer and these are the high-risk strains and some cause warts and those are the low-risk strains. THere is a vaccine available that can protect against 4 of those strains that cause warts and cancer.

2. You could get an STD if you're celibate. Suppose someone has a cold sore on his mouth. This is HSV - Herpes Simplex Virus and it's his first outbreak. Say he just contracted the virus so his body hasn't had a chance to build up any immunity. Then suppose that person is kind of a careless slob and is laying in bed, drinking chocolate milk and watching TV. Suppose he takes a slurp of milk, dribbles a bit of it out of his mouth and onto his big, red, aching, oozing, cold sore. He takes his fingers and wipes at the chocolate milk, touching the big, red, aching, oozing cold sore at the same time. And then his next move is to scratch his member with those same fingers. HSV is spread through skin-to-skin contact and what has just happened is autoinoculation.

3. It's a big mean world and I can see how you feel the way you feel. Life is hard and we're all here to learn life lessons so that our souls can progress. Maybe we don't have just one life. The Western way of thinking makes these lessons so hard.

[Leannain]

That's a lot to respond to so i'll just make this simple because i can't really be bothered, if i'm honest, to get in to a debate about it.


Sounds like you're bitter. I mean, you're making a very big generalization about women. A big one. I'm a woman and i don't apply to most of what you have just said.

I find the way you talk about marriage quite interesting. I don't know about anyone else and i can't speak for anybody else but i personally, am not a person of convenience. I know that when i marry, it'll be out of love. Sure, people fall out of love, and when that happens, relationships end.. marriage, ends. But that's life i guess. It depends on the person. Simple minded people who live life like it's a clock - hit an age, freak out, and begin to tick off a list.. marriage, babies..retirement. I'm only 18 but I know for a fact I won't live my life like that. I'm rambling but meh,

it kind of sounds like you're being a downer about natural.. exciting things in life. You've had your bad experiences, yeah, but i suppose you've just met the wrong kind of people for YOU


What did I say? Shaming language. Sentences meant to make the male promptly apologize and back peddle into pleasing the woman. "You are jaded."

"You are bitter."

"You can't get laid."

"you are a closeted gay."

"you live with momma."


"you can't get a job."


These are typical shaming tactics women use to make the man go back to the rest of pack. You don't seem to have read what I wrote, or at least you avoided the meaning of the sentences. You cannot shame me. I've had women shame me because I have the freedom to stay 10 hours in a row up all night playing video games when i want, but want to date me.

What gives? They want my resources.

I've had women shame me for going to clubs and not asking them out.

What gives?

They wanted to have fun with me.

A woman, a bitter woman at that, will shame you, emotionally manipulate you(remember that big bully from 5th grade?) well, a woman like this, can't make a man do what she wants by physical power so she resorts to emotional manipulation. Quite hard to manipulate the emotions of the Prince of Emotions. I live and breath emotion. But it's funny nonetheless.

Notice the "I can't be bothered."

meaning ,she doesn't have any logical arguments with which attack what I just said on my above post so, because she just has to have the last word, she'll resort to shaming language by going again, on the "you are bitter", "you are jaded" and likewise.

It's quite funny, actually. Women complain that I either don't want anything to do with them or that I only want to have fun with them. When I point out why I only want to have fun with them or why I don't even want to have anything to do with them, they go silent.

I thought women like this would've have evolved their shaming arsenal by now. Men have evolved. From being the providers, to being jerks to marriage strike, to being indifferent to women and yes, lady, many males are becoming like that.

And guys, Church girls/women? Don't even go there - they're the freakiest of the lot.

More shaming language, please? I feel like a good laugh :redface:.


By the way: great post by Shalot. Studies have show the existence of HPV on the hair of people. You can basically catch herpes if the person who has it went to the bathroom, didn't wash his hands and gave you a hand shake.

Sex is indeed very dangerous and with so many women having sex wild to satisfy their sexual urges, to be cool, to rival with their female friends, to get male attention, or to get the Brad Pitt of the zone, you are up for a pretty miserable time. Sad, right? Tough luck buddy, life is hard but think of Africa. It's much, much harder.

Ahaha, I confess: I'm so used to this kind of woman that I didn't bother to read all of her post but my eye caught the last lines of "You haven't just met the right woman for YOU".

Ahaha, you just haven't find the right bullet. A lot, a lot of women will pretend to be one thing. Until they have what they have; marriage; a serious relationship; children; living together. When they have what they want, say bye bye to what you loved in her. Second, there is no such thing as the right person. "The One".

That is a personal illusion most humans create because they fear "ending up alone". For this reason, they'll go from relationship to relationship, trying to find that one person who'll make everything fine.


It's not that I am bitter - I am smart. I am evolved. I observe. I watch other males do the mistakes. I avoid them. And guys, the whole shaming tactic of "you just haven't found the right woman" since most marriages end, and most relationships of all sort(romantically) end, by the end of women, and the fact that most men loose everything they have, it's pretty damn logic to conclude that there are no "right person for you", or in another way, most women aren't relationship material. Now you know why women want you to keep going! Chase after them! give them male attention! make them feel special!

Nah, I ain't for that.

Virgins aren't that much better either. I've dated a true virgin, from a proper, traditional family and she was just the same as all the other females. I've had one bad experience, indeed, you got that right: watching my father work for no logical reason. That was one of the saviors of my life.

Preach on sister. I've had hardcore feminists, much older than you, much more versed in the art of shaming males, try their wits on me: They leave quite exasperated and I? Quite amused. God, how I love to be a young male, rich and full of potential that will never be hostage to women.

Don't worry about me. I'm the most happy male I have ever met. While other males are worrying about making their wives/girlfriends happy, I'm reading 2 books in a row. While men are trying to get their next fix of sex; I'm backpacking to Sweden because I have the funds for it and the time. While men are worried about losing their job; Why do I care? I'm rich. While other men have to worry about their wives leaving them, taking their money and house etc, I'm sipping a soda, thinking of the way the colour blue makes me feel..

While other males are worried about getting cheated on or not, I'm revising the fond memories I have of my fun times.

Yes, I sure am missing a lot, ain't I ? ;) This life can be yours too, guys. And if society falls because there are no more drones, er I mean, tax payers?

Who cares? Do you think Lord Byron cared about anything or anyone? Who lived the LIFE, though? :)

ohh, how did I miss this pearl?

yeah, feelings end, relationships end, marriage end that is life."

Spoken like the true member of the most privileged class of all: women. Pretty easy to say that, ain't it, when it's not you who risks losing the house, the income, the children(who gets the children gets the house)having your ex- wife or ex- girlfriend live in with her next husband/boyfriend in the house you bought or built for her/family - yep, go check an attorney. I live with one(daddy). The laws are all stacked against men; benefiting women to the hilt. That is why women want so much to get married. To get married. Not to stay married. There are so many, so many risks and problems a man goes through by having a romantic relationship with a woman while a woman, risks almost nothing.

What does she risk? Getting pregnant and the guy flee? Many, many guys are so desperate for female attention that they will marry a single mother. The state will also help out the single mom. I could fill this forum with tons of negative stuff happening to men but who cares, there are enough males silly enough to fall for the trap and if they want to fall, so do it. That is the nature of life. That is the nature of the male of the mantis. After he mates, the female bites off the head of the male.

ahahahaha. And notice how she subtly attacked me with the "you can't get laid" tactic?

"you seem to lack something" something like that.

Yeah guys, if you guys aren't getting laid, to women you are a loser. Now, if women - and they believe this - have several sexual partners, they'll downplay the true number. Do you want to interact with beings like that?

[Zee.]

Meh look, okay, if you want to live your life like that.. so be it.

That's not the path i'm choosing to take. Don't generalize women they way you do though, it's quite degrading and very narrowminded.


Marriages? yeah, they can end. Romance? that too, can end. Not always, as you say, but it can, yes. EVERYTHING ENDS. Absolutely everything, comes to an end. Who said things were meant to last? it's the experience of it which counts, what existed, what you took from it - just because it ends doesn't make it illegitimate, or a mistake, or a regret.

You say you're "smart" well, you sound bitter to me, you sound like you've isolated yourself.
It's almost as though you're arguing that love does not exist and that relationships should be avoided. It's very silly..


Men were made for women, and women.. were made for men. We fall in love. We fall out of love. We experience. It's life.

[Leannain]

Meh look, okay, if you want to live your life like that.. so be it.

That's not the path i'm choosing to take. Don't generalize women they way you do though, it's quite degrading and very narrowminded.


Marriages? yeah, they can end. Romance? that too, can end. Not always, as you say, but it can, yes. EVERYTHING ENDS. Absolutely everything, comes to an end. Who said things were meant to last? it's the experience of it which counts, what existed, what you took from it - just because it ends doesn't make it illegitimate, or a mistake, or a regret.

You say you're "smart" well, you sound bitter to me, you sound like you've isolated yourself.
It's almost as though you're arguing that love does not exist and that relationships should be avoided. It's very silly..


Men were made for women, and women.. were made for men. We fall in love. We fall out of love. We experience. It's life.


It seems you think I care about your life or how you are. Another funny thing is that all women will say "they are not like that"

Yep, the woman who is going to stab you in the back is going to warn you.

Second, yeah, not all women are like that. Just most. Since most males are looking for a mate, most males are going to fight to the end for the jewels and those jewels are usually already married in their 20's, to older guys(with the financial resources to have a family) so guys in their 20's are done for.

They'll have to wait for the next "crop".

Second, you don't seem capable of grasping what i write, do you? All that you write is "yes, marriage ends, but emotions this and that."

Do you understand that life is not about emotions but about consequences? the positives and negatives and what to do to get the positives and deny the negatives? Can you comprehend that? Women like you are the most prone to fall for guys like me; guys who are either good with words, emotions or bad boys.

Problem is, most women are like you so..

Look. I'll put this into simple words.

Love. Good Feeling. Getting divorced. Good for Women. Bad for Men. Why? Because women take everything. It doesn't. Matter. If she was pleasant. The sex was good. The man still ends shafted. Meaning. He's risking bankrupt. Living in the streets.

It's easy. To speak of. Experiences. And that. Everything Ends. That what matters. Is the experience. When you aren't the one. Paying for the wedding ring. Paying for the wedding. Living a few years of relatively happiness. But ending it when the woman. Gets bored. The emotions end. She finds another guy. She cheats on him(and yes, guys also cheat).

It's easy. To want to get married. When. YOU. Have nothing. to waste. Men. On the other hand. Can't afford. That.

here we go again. Do you want me to arrange you a meeting with divorced men?(not the ones who cheated and were bad partners).

Do you want to know about the suicide percentages of the divorced male? The financial consequences of divorces? The emotional backlash of losing the child?

The man very rarely gets the kid. Do you want to know how much pain a man feels when he doesn't see his child? 2 times a month? is that all? Do you know how it feels when men see their kids being raised by other males?

And you continue with the bitter "argument?"

Look, if a rattle snake bites me , I'll probably die. But if I don't die, I'll avoid the rattle snake next time.

When it comes to me, I wasn't bitten: I learned from seeing and hearing and noticing other bitten men.

Do you understand that? Are you capable?

Men are made to be glorious. Do you understand that? Do you understand the quality of a van Gogh? of a Neil Armstrong? Any man can be like them, if they free themselves from the chains of society i,e; children and women.

Do I sound drastic? You can bet your pink horse. Will I achieve my goals? You can bet two pink horses.

Men aren't made for women, and women aren't made for men. Marriage has always been a bad contract for men. Love is about rising above nature; achieving power beyond imagination by doing something great, by making yourself great.

Women, most women will just tie down the man and not let him live up to his potential; work like a horse, provide for your family, get divorced; die.

That is the nature of life. I am above Life.

I'm not arguing that love doesn't exist. How can I argue what is a fact? love has been proven to be nothing more than a physical/chemical reaction to proper stimulation. I could make you fall in love. I can make the woman next door fall in love. How? because I understand the principles of "love".

Christ sake; when relationships chain you, yes; don't do them. But you have to understand that all that I'm writing is not meant for you. You are a woman. You live and dream about love and marriage and children, to you, all doors are open. You are a member of the most privileged sect of the human race: women.

What you are doing is projecting. You're making it seem like what you love, like and want is the exact same thing I, a man, would want.

And frankly, with this high school mentality(fantasy lalala love land, love is the most important, relationships are the most important blablabla) you are making my case even stronger.

Another. Since most women can't be away from love and relationships, they are spending their teens and 20's going from relationship to relationship because the love ends, or they find someone they find more attractive or "love" more.

At the same time, they are concentrating on their career. While some men, some very smart men, have opted out of the game. Instead of chasing women, dating them, having sex with them, whatever, they are becoming better students, better workers, making themselves more physically attractive, emotionally ,intellect, the works.

Then, when women reach a certain age (more than less is 30) they are ready to settle down. They'll go for the more stable, career minded males(because the other guys are still partying) but ahaha, things turn because when they go for them, the stable, financially secure males, those same males, go for the younger (18 - 22) females to mate with leaving the 30's females high and dry.

Because most(note most: there are some decent women out there) women are living their life through stages(partying from 15 to 30) they have never been without a boyfriend while the financially stable fella has never had a relationship. Who now has the power? See, you, who is always speaking of life, should know that women are the gatekeepers. Women choose the mates.

But, by letting emotions run amok, instead of doing the little trick their grand mothers did(marrying young), they end up without a partner and without a son.

What a sight it is to see a woman whine and complain that she can't find a mate "there are no good men left."

Sure there are but, whereas to women financial security is what attracts them in a lifelong mate, youth and fertility in a woman is what a man is looking for; not her education or life experience.

Either way, you prove my point time and time again.

For the record: you are right that I have isolated myself. Why have I done so?

I've had my share of women. I've filled my cup of sexual interest in women in a way. After the 5th female, sex turns out to be the same. Furthermore, as I am a far, far more emotional being than you, I can actually satisfy my own emotional needs.

The need, the "completeness" a woman could play and have in my life is devoid of significance. Like a vegetarian eats meat because he or she doesn't like meat or doesn't need meat, I do the same.

I "isolate" myself(that means, I don't flatter women's ego by chasing them, I don't satisfy women's sexual lust by having sex with them and I don't satisfy their need for security by having a relationship with them).

What you want and what other women want from me is to stay a teenager forever. A teenager cares for his hormones and the still "existent" preconception of "love", turning me into a deviant machine of lust and desire. My friends, the guys who are doing what you want me to do, can't go one day without sex. Many of them have to have a girlfriend at all times. What in Heaven's name am I? A man? or an animal? Why should I fall for the apple when I can reach for the stars?

A great man once said: "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."

So sue me, for having eyes.

There is no need to tell me of my smartness. I am very aware. It just saddens me a bit that I am trying to have a conversation with you, with facts, scenarios that are reals while you just trow at me silly reasons to be in a relationship and the fallacy that everything ends but that shouldn't keep me from having a relationship because men and women are meant to be one.

Right. Will God also smitten me if I say his name in vain?

[Shalot]

Funny...I've seen a lot women get shafted as well. Women with 3 kids and the deadbeat dad who didn't pay child support. Yeah yeah there are laws that require men to pay their child support, blah blah blah. The same dads that can't afford to stick around can't manage to make all their child support payments either...

Douchbags come in both male and female form. Just a thought.

Children are punishment for having sex :-D

[Zee.]

Leannain

What bothers me about what you're saying is that you are speaking for more than yourself. You can only speak on your experiences, not mine and not others.
Your experiences with women and 'life' as you put it, are your own, but they do not make them universal.

Men hurt women just the same.

This debate is getting really silly.


I don't know why you keep associating love with marriage by the way.
My parents aren't married and they are very much in love.

I know couples that have been together since they were 14/15 and are now in their 80's. Tell me that isn't love.

[Leannain]

Leannain

What bothers me about what you're saying is that you are speaking for more than yourself. You can only speak on your experiences, not mine and not others.
Your experiences with women and 'life' as you put it, are your own, but they do not make them universal.

Men hurt women just the same.

This debate is getting really silly.


I don't know why you keep associating love with marriage by the way.
My parents aren't married and they are very much in love.

I know couples that have been together since they were 14/15 and are now in their 80's. Tell me that isn't love.

For the love of God? I said, that you are a member of the King "race": women. I speak not for you because, like I said, women have far more positives when it comes to relationships than men have. Get it? I speak for the guys who are shafted. I speak for the guys my father has to deal with (and I in the same fashion), when they reach his office wanting to keep a little percent of their money, of their house, their children whatever.

I speak from what I see, from the people I interact with. The situations my friends and my family lives through. I speak from the Laws. One only has to look at the draconian laws, geared to prejudice men; in England, there's a new law that states that if a man has his own house but has a child with a woman, the woman gets the house.

Have you ever heard the expression that power corrupts, absolute power corrupts completely?

With so many incentives and the no -fault laws(and don't try to twist this with "My parents are very happy together and they aren't married."

For your information, you only need to live a few years(in Australia: 6 months)together, for the govt. think of you as married, treat you as married, and give to you all the benefits when separation happens.


I'll explain this to you. Do you know why so many people want to become lawyers? because Divorce attorneys earn fortunes. Do you know why the state wants gay people to get married? So when they get divorced, the state gets a piece of the money. Why do you think the state has such an interest in having people married? Why do you think the state has made common law a regular "ending" for the couple that lives together? What do you think makes the world go round and round?

MONEY. Not love.

Good for your parents. Sadly, your parents are from a different generation. Generations behave differently. Remember the 50's? Rock and roll? Free love?

Go back a few dozens of years and you'll see the differences also.

A friend of mine bought a house. Payed fully for it. His girlfriend moved in. After three years, they moved on(didn't marry) but for the state, that was a piece of a cake it wouldn't miss out: he lost the house.

No thanks. i very much enjoy the house my father offered me, the house I was raised in.


"Funny...I've seen a lot women get shafted as well. Women with 3 kids and the deadbeat dad who didn't pay child support. Yeah yeah there are laws that require men to pay their child support, blah blah blah. The same dads that can't afford to stick around can't manage to make all their child support payments either...

Douchbags come in both male and female form. Just a thought.

Children are punishment for having sex :-D



That happens when the genders don't think with their head but with their emotions. The world is not an Elisabeth Browning and a Robert Browning. Those women - many of those fall for the charmer, the player, the pick up artist, the Casanova. Basically, the more charming a man is, the more fickle he is.

Due to his easy way with women, he doesn't exactly see a point on settling down. Like Bill Gates keeps on making money because he's good at making money, the charmers, the guys women meddle with(great providers of sexual stimulation etc) are the same guys the fathers of long ago had a shotgun waiting if they dared touch their little girl.

Look at the quantity of women going after the thug. Or the bad boy. Look, Thugs are exciting because they live dangerous lives; you never know if you are going to see him alive next time you visit him.

Bad boys, well, we just don't give a damn about anything or anyone; we're perpetual James Deans - knowing that women fall for that guy, we either "pontificate" him or we just don't care; we are the real deal.

Those two groups of men are dangerous. For example: the thug, well you can end up dead. The bad boy, you end with your heart broken and possibly one or two stds.

The third group is the Charmer; the Shakespeare. He'll make you fall in love with him, by using poetry, appealing to your sensitive side, by being that guy women claim to want(sensitive, calm, peaceful, attentive) etc, but he'll soon grow weary of you and move on.

I've got one female by being the natural bad boy(I simply don't give a damn about anyone but me) and another one, with poetry. I gotta stop writing poetry for women, though, imagine that, when I become famous, they can earn much money with them :brickwall.

If women avoid these groups of men, they are home free. It's quite easy to discern who is who, to which group a man belongs to.

The thug - he's wearing rappers cloths, being all aggressive to his friends etc. The thug will grope you, will go at you like are his property. He doesn't respect you but his prism of attractiveness is his assertiveness. He goes after what he wants.

The Bad boy - Well, I simply just don't give a damn. They say I look far better without a beard but because I don't care, about what they want or like or need, I go months without shaving my beard.

I've also gone months without washing my hair or changing my clothes - I have oily hair.

I've done things like being talking to a woman, turn my back to her, go talk to someone else or get up, go away and never talk to her again. A fine and beautiful example of the bad boy mentality is an experience I went through 4 months ago. A woman, a bad girl, was playing hard to get.(while trying to control my interaction with women. I LOVE double standards.)

What did I do? I kicked her out of my friends car, never spoke to her again. 4 months have passed by, she sent me a message using the phone of a friend(because I blocked her number).

That is the essence of the bad boy. We will provide the drama that many women look for(what do you think women watch soap operas for? Women are the main consumers of shows like Dr. Phill and Oprah. Why? because of the drama), we'll give you the time of your life but don't trust us with your "feelings" or hopes for a "relationship" we just don't give a damn. If we score with women, if we don't.

I've gone years without kissing a woman, not wanting to be bothered with women. However, there have been times I spent a lot of time with women. I'm unstable because I am a pool of endless emotions; emotions that find it's way onto me, never outside.

The charmer(romantic) - I love this personality.

The charmer is the Casanova of males. He'll flood you with so many transformations of your diary...a diary of life, can you give up everything? you will, the loss of your innocence is adamant when interacting with a charmer.

He'll buy you roses, carve your name onto the wood of trees, with your hands put together on top of his chest. He'll write songs for you, poems might owe their existence to you. He'll treat you really good. Really romantically. He will take you out for dinner, make you feel like a Princess, take care of you - never let anything you want run from you. He'll be your Prince Charming.

How do you identify the charmer? Go to a bookstore. Find out what he's reading. if he's reading Nicolas Sparks, John Keats, Pessoa, Balzac, Tolstoy; you have both a thinker and an emotional man: a charmer!

He probably looks more feminine than masculine. Slight built, low weight, maybe short, with thick lips, big eyes, long eyelashes etc.

The problem of the Charmer? extremely fickle... those emotions go from right to left, many times they end. And beauty! Let me tell you about beauty! The Charmer falls in love with beauty every time he sees it. If you live in a Country full of beautiful women, you are up for a treat.

I'm nothing of the thug, most of the bad boy and most of the charmer. Hm, in a way, I'm a god damn freak of nature :wave:.

If women want a steady relationship, with a guy who won't shaft her: DO NOT fall for one of these guys. I've given you the manual on how to identify each type and avoid him. I've also tried to help the girlfriends of my friends(when they ask me why their guy is a bad boy or a charmer...er) I explain but they return to the fray.

I believe these groups are addictive. Once a woman tastes one of them, she can't go back. Shrugs.

My father, my father lies on the 4th group. The group that enabled society to come to live. My father's group. He's 52 year old, handsome male(in a masculine way: 6'1' with proper weight, mustache) etc.

Those males are the males women ought to marry. They are reliable, emotionally stable and will work like a horse to provide for their family. Yes, most women now earn their own money but when they want to marry they'll want a provider; that is why you find them looking for someone with a higher income.

Men and women get shafted because they want. Me? All i want is fun, a lifetime of fun. I'm too much dead and gone from the ordinary world to worry myself about the certainties of adult "manhood" . Thankfully, my fickle and emotional nature saves me from the mistakes the 4th group makes, ahaha.

Life is sweet.

Children. Yeah, I agree. That's why when I can do it , I'm going to get a vasectomy done(have to wait until I'm 35 or something). As for the 5th group of males, the "Pick - up Artist", I can't relate. I've never met one. Only heard of them. It seems, though, that their attractiveness lies in making a woman feel bad about herself, which in turn makes the woman want to prove her value to the male by having sex with him.

Sounds odd to me. just show you are either an emotional man or a masculine man and it's a sealed "deal."


Did you know that by law, if a man doesn't pay alimony, he goes to jail? You miss one payment: jail for you!

it's true that there are many guys who are deadbeats but who told women to have sex with them? A woman can always reject sex. Women are the gatekeepers. Most women, regardless of their beauty, have many guys hitting on them. On a periodical basis. A woman should by then be aware of the intentions of the male and proceed accordingly. It's my fault if I jump into acid but you can't blame me if I avoid the acid.

And this kind of mentality will only let you fall for one of the three groups of males you find attractive at this stage in your life:

"I know couples that have been together since they were 14/15 and are now in their 80's. Tell me that isn't love."


My great grandfather stayed with his wife all of his Life. She married him when she was 22 and he was 16. She used to beat him up(a 6'3' man, dock worker), treat him awfully, would steal all of his money to give to her Priest. The father of my father, got married to my grandma when he was 21 and she was 19 - they met when she was 14. My grandpa would spend all day working, away from his wife, because she would nag and bother him.

The father of my mother married my grandma when he was 15. She was so annoying, so demanding and naggy. He ended up becoming a VERY successful auto - mechanic. How do you think my family became rich? By focusing on creating foundations;work. Affection and attention to women, well, at a certain age, men stop being teenagers and worry about more important things. Like conquer the world of physical, mental and emotional.

And just because you know of couples who are still together. It doesn't mean that that's the norm. Gerard Butler looks like a greek god. Will I look like a Greek god if I do his work out?

Einstein turned out to be a genius, while in school, everyone thought of him as dumb. Does that mean that every single guy who is bad in math will become the next Einstein?

You hope. I live. See, if you choose to live your life waiting for the perfect everything; love, husband, child - you end up sad. You depend on someone else to provide the means to become truly independent and powerful.

I, by not having emotional ties, not letting myself get trapped by this world(marriage, serious relationship etc), have become the western version of Buddha. I can literally live without any social contact - and live happily. Or, I can choose to indulge in whatever without getting addicted. My happiness, comes from within. Thus, I am always, always happy, never susceptible to darkness or sorrow.

my confidence, my arrogance, my eternal and infinite love for myself, are the Jesus Christ's of my redemption. They propelled me from mortality to Immortality.

Hard? at the start,if you are not a natural, yes. Worth it? For sure!

I forgot to mention that the body type of the thug is usually that of a brick house and the body type of the bad boy falls between 6 feet tall and 6'5'.

[Virgil]

This debate is getting really silly.



Getting silly? This discussion was silly from the beginning and kept going down hill. :lol:

[The Atheist]

Wow!

This thread does have its twists and turns.

Leannin - I bet I set a record for length of post here, so bear with me:


Tell that to the many poor fellas who ended up victims of what I'm talking about.

Pah. try telling it to the women in their teens, twenties, thirties and 40s whose lives I screwed up!

Just one case: I had one 33 year old girlfriend leave her husband and three kids because she mistakenly thought I was going to become her new husband.

Man, I would've beaten Usain Bolt.

Of course, I didn't bother letting her know that I wasn't her soulmate, I just started having sex with one of her competitors.

I'm not saying that to boast. I actually don't think my past sex life is all that honourable or sensible, but it does give me pretty good evidence that both sexes can be revolting.

There's a really, really old saying, which is effective from an evolutionary standpoint as well: "All's fair in Love & War." Given our prediliction for sex and relationships, anything which works leaving only emotional scars can actually be considered "fair".


Falling in love? I think most of us here have let go of the High School mentality.

Damn.

I'm 50 and I fall in love most days. Christ, why is it I never grew up?


When I was younger(these days, I lack the desire to interact with them), I would see these same women interact with me with fun in their mind. Not "love." I was aggressive(still I am), didn't care about anything at all, and I was angry at the world.

Anger is a terrible emotion. It's proven beyond any reasonable doubt that a state of constant anger is actuall really bloody bad for your health.

It's sounds to me as though you have a hell of it as well!

I think you need to change your "was" to "am" in the part about being angry at the world.


Those factors triggered a woman's attraction to me.

You sure it was that?

Lots of things trigger women's attention, and it isn't always what you think.


Does this sound "romantic"? No. No one said life was meant to be romantic. This is fact. have you ever dated a woman who is in "settling" down mode? I have.

Her questions are around this: "Do you have a job?" "what do you think you are going to be doing in 5 years?" "Do you have your own house?" "Do you want children?"

Some have tried to make me not use a condom. others have tried to fish the condom out of the bin. Funny thing is, I don't, when I have sex, ever get the clothes off . I literally do the deed dressed so I can snatch the condom and store it somewhere safe. My parents raised no fool. Sometimes I follow the woman to the bathroom and I find her going through the trash, mad that she can't find the condom. That's funny!

See, this is all just child's play.

I think you should be blaming yourself as much as the women.

Have you heard of saying "no"? Even in my wildest days, I used to turn plenty down. Why would you get to the stage of having sex with a woman who's treated the exercise like a job interview? Didn't you spot any of the warning signs that you, who were seeking casual sex, were probably dating the wrong woman?


I have several friends who had vasectomies done and keep quiet.

And this is recommended as honest behaviour?

In what way is this kind of stuff not just as reprehensible as the woman who tries to cheat one into being a father? You have a nice set of double standards bubbling away here...


I've lost count of how many times they've come to me laughing, telling me that they've shown the sperm count report to them; the women denied being at fault. The baby is born, my friends demand an ADN test: The woman disappears.

I don't believe this. I flat out just disbelieve it.

I accept you might know of a case, or maybe even two, where a man has been accused of paternity only to produce evidence of a successful vasectomy. But :lost count"? Nope. I don't buy a bar of it, sorry.

Now I'm worried about fabrication instead of double standards.


These 30 year old women, when they realize I'm not going to spend money on them, that I am only interested in having fun(because I don't want to spend my life working soul - destroying jobs to support a family or worse, have my house(a full paid 4 room house) and alimony, they move on to other guys.

"When they realise". Not, "when I tell them".

I take that as a confirmation that you are just as dishonest in your relationships as these women you're accusing of duplicity.

It's war alright - the age old Battle of the Sexes, round 165342789.


I'm not picking on anyone, lass. This whole feminized world that makes men bend over to please and support women is what annoys me. Saddens me as well.

Can I call you "lad" to go with your "lass" to Limajean?

What planet are you from again?

On earth, we have had a thing which I'll broadly refer to as "The Women's Movement" for just over the past century. Yes, it's only existed for 100 or so years.

For the previous 99,900 years, women had no rights, so they finally decided they should have equal rights with men and started a movement to do something about it. So far, it's been fairly successful, thanks in part to magical places like New Zealand which showed the world that letting women vote would not be the end of civilisation.

Some time after that, most of human society has passed laws that a man may not now assault his wife or rape her, so they have come a fair way in 100 years.

Suggesting that they run the show is just silliness. It couldn't even qualify as rhetoric.


Love. Marriage. Feminine social constructions to bind men to women.

The really bizarre part is, the materialist in me wants to just give you a good shake.

Marriage was an institution created by men to control women.

At least get your facts right!

One of the things that women's movement I was just mentioning di, was to enable women to get a divorce. Who'd have thought that? That women would be the ones seeking a way to end marriages?

I guess this must seem all a little "far out" to you, but I assure you it's true!


Hormones and emotions are easy to create. I can create them inside a woman by being sweet, indifferent, caring, a jerk; by writing poetry, by picking her up, by hugging her.

And no doubt they can create them in you; inadequacy, anger...


Love is nothing more than the reaction of an action. And emotions are temporary while problems and consequences are forever.

This just shows a complete lack of understanding of what "love" actually is.

Lots of people confuse lust and love - it's an easy mistake to make.


You speak the truth about one thing. I am an intelligent man. Intelligence is to be used in everything. What can I do then, but apply this intelligence on interpersonal relationships and see the pros and cons of it, comprehend that there are no positives in it, that I have a high chance of falling out of it damaged in some way and that I can be controlled by the female and the state if I give in to my biological imperative?

In what way is that intelligent?

It's neither smart nor logical. You're basing conclusions on flawed or insufficient data, and I'm sorry, that doesn't qualify in any way as "intelligent".

You're applying your personal experience and emotion to arrive at a conclusion which suits your argument, but is just a wildly bigoted opinion.


Love? Marriage is a contract. Didn't you know that? or you're avoiding that issue? if you aren't aware, in Australia, you only need to live with a woman 6 months for the govt. to make both of you legally married.

Absolutely, 100% incorrect.

Again, I know for a fact that your statement is a fabrication.

Please don't try to conflate property laws with matrimony. The two things are quite separate and totally incompatible - either in discussion, or the eyes of the law in Australia.


Moreso, if a woman starts calling herself Mrs. Smith(Smith being your last name), you are doomed; you are the husband and now you are responsible for her.

Wrong again.

Totally false. Falser than a false bottom on a smuggler's suitcase. Channelling Blackadder, sorry, but your silly attempts to misquote law as fact started me off.


Besides, remember college? Women will go to college, get student loans, then get out college, marry and guess what? the husband will have to pay for the loans.

And again.

Are you going to quote a fact at some stage, or just a list of false accusations?

No offence, but you're starting to look pretty damned silly here.


Another funny facet of "love" is women having fun with the likes of me when they are the prime of their beauty(18 to 25) then get married to a stable, provider. Well, so what is a man? an entertainer? he's there to provide the emotions and feelings and drama and then, the next stage of her life is the guy who'll provide financial security?

Sadly, the 30 year old woman, even if she's secure in her career, independent and all, she'll still seek a guy with at the very least as much academic education as her and more than less, a guy who earns more than her.

I'm not up for that. If I interact with women on a sexual level(and that desire is lowering as I grow older), I interact with women who'll give me a bit of satisfaction and that woman is the 18 to 25 year old woman. The rest of women, the older, are too dangerous.

Repetition of your own failings noted, but nothing new. You take no blame for your own dishonest actions, but deride women for openly wanting stability.

Are you a closet anarchist?


I pity these fellas who get married, you know, sooner or later, the woman will divorce him(that usually happens after 4 years into the marriage. Gotta love love, right?) take from him everything he has, leaving him miserable, depressed and dead.

Damn, I must ask my wife when she;s going to do that.


Did you know that most marriages are ended by women? And that many, many males who are divorced end up killing themselves or living in poverty because they have to pay alimony? There was a case of a man who divorced his wife 25 years ago. All of a sudden, the woman approaches a judge and demands alimony because she's bankrupt. Guess what? She got it.

Wow, now I'm convinced.

You quoted one mythical case and it suddenly applies to all women. Come on, mate. I thought you claimed to be smart? This isn't even parody; it's pure parrot.

Yet again, again, you post a fabrication. Your fantasy situation never existed.


lastly, I have too much to loose(houses, money, my freedom, my man - child status) and too little to gain by "falling in love".

All I see are women clapping that you've removed yourself from the gene pool.

Seriously, you're not even up to the very low standard of whymenarebetterthanwomen.com. At least they're funny.


What am I again? 15 year old?

Nah. I would've gone for 17. Your punctuation's too good for 15. Not brilliant, but too good for 15.


I have to admit that you do have a knowing eye for realizing my high quality, ...

Nah, it's ok mate. You've shown us all your class all the way through your post. I really do look forward to the others! I haven't read then yet, but now I'm really looking forward to them.


...so kudos to you and for that, for your clarity of spirit I won't instill into this post a lot of more reasons why marriage or a serious relationship(or even casual sex) is too much of a risk, I'd dabble on the lies feminism has created and sold to men but alas, the soap opera is on and I feel graceful tonight.

Glad to see you didn't take yourself at your word and posted quite a lot more subsequently.


Myself? I thank my father - for working a soul - crushing job, because it's the right thing to do. Immediately, it came to me that slavery is still very much alive. And I thank my mother. She always told me never to fall for the lies of feminism, her, being a feminism herself, on of the first of my Country also shaped my path into Liberty, greatness and a long, long lifetime with youthful looks and body because I don't have to work for anyone but me and, because I have inherited money from my ancestors(being the last male of the line helps) I don't have to work at all; and no one, no woman is going to touch my money, even if it was on a "date."

Well, going by the factuality ratio of the rest of your post, I find sweeping claims easily ignored.

;)


The greatest energy of love is love for itself. By loving yourself, you are experiencing true, everlasting love.

Well, it certainly looks like you found someone worthy of it.


So honey, not only I am a very gifted poet, a rather intense and exciting young male and intelligent; I am too smart to fall, aha.

See above regarding factual claims.

[Shalot]

Nice post athiest! *applauds*

[The Atheist]

Ding!

Round 2.



What did I say? Shaming language. Sentences meant to make the male promptly apologize and back peddle into pleasing the woman. "You are jaded."

Nah.

What I actually think happened was that your posts were so long that people just saw half of your message and presumed you were some bitter bloke on a crusade against women.

I'm far too old a hand to fall for that trap and I like to dissect posts bit by bit. JBI hates it, but it's the only way to grok a person, I reckon, and I think I have you now expsoed for what you are.

Shaming language?

Yeah, I'm not surprised the girls tried that, but I'm much keener on just letting your fabrications speak for themselves.


You cannot shame me.

Quite right.

What's to shame?

Someone lied on the internet, OMFG!!11!@ I reckon the internet will survive, and far from being shamed, you just slope off and repeate your message somewhere where you won't be exposed as a charlatan and liar.


meaning ,she doesn't have any logical arguments with which attack what I just said on my above post so, because she just has to have the last word, she'll resort to shaming language by going again, on the "you are bitter", "you are jaded" and likewise.

Heck, you almost got something right!

Yes, if you go into a room full of women and shout "All women are hookers who want to enslave men" most women will immediately retreat into defensive/attack mode.

The logical argument against you is complete as in my previous post, but I very much doubt you'd want to go there.


Men have evolved.

I hope you're not a male who's looking to use this thread as evidence.


By the way: great post by Shalot. Studies have show the existence of HPV on the hair of people. You can basically catch herpes if the person who has it went to the bathroom, didn't wash his hands and gave you a hand shake.

This is getting boring.

Now, you're just confusing HPV - genital warts - with herpes.

They're two different dieases.


Sex is indeed very dangerous and with so many women having sex wild to satisfy their sexual urges, to be cool, to rival with their female friends, to get male attention, or to get the Brad Pitt of the zone, you are up for a pretty miserable time. Sad, right? Tough luck buddy, life is hard but think of Africa. It's much, much harder.

This is quite funny when you look at it.

Previously, you were attacking women for being husband-hunters, now you're attacking them for being sexual predators, which is you previously claimed you were.

Not just mixing viruses, now you can't even remember what your "argument" actually is!

:lol:


Ahaha, I confess: I'm so used to this kind of woman that I didn't bother to read all of her post but my eye caught the last lines of "You haven't just met the right woman for YOU".

Well, at least you're admitting the same crime.

She didn't read your post fully enough to realise that you're not what you appear on the surface and you just didn't bother reading hers.


It's not that I am bitter - I am smart. I am evolved. I observe.

There is strong evidence that none of those is true.


.... the fact that most men loose everything they have,...

Surely, poets know the difference between "loose" and "lose" don't they?


... it's pretty damn logic to conclude that there are no "right person for you", or in another way, most women aren't relationship material.

Aside from the problems of you discussing logic, you're contradicting yourself again - you don't want a relationship, why would you care that they aren't relationship material?


Preach on sister. I've had hardcore feminists, much older than you, much more versed in the art of shaming males, try their wits on me: They leave quite exasperated and I? Quite amused. God, how I love to be a young male, rich and full of potential that will never be hostage to women.

See my previous comments about your factuality rating.

;)

The rest of your post can be safely ignored, being word salad.



Yep, the woman who is going to stab you in the back is going to warn you.

Already covered....

anything new?


Can you comprehend that? Women like you are the most prone to fall for guys like me; guys who are either good with words, emotions or bad boys.

Well, you've convinced me that you aren't that good with words: poor structure, poor grammar, repetition; too many sins to list. You certainly don't appear to be good [or honest] with emotions. Even if everything you've written is just made up, it all shows a complete lack of understanding of emotion, so I have severe doubts you'd be "good" at them.

Bad boy? Nah, I just can't see it. Bad boys don't go to LitNet and try to appear some sexist parody. The only type that might fall for it - librarians - are far too smart to fall for your lies, so even the bad boy image is a fail.


Look. I'll put this into simple words.

Couldn't be much simpler than the rubbish I've seen so far.

If anything, you'd do better to try hide behind bigger ones. At least you might confuse the illiterate that way. As it stands, you're just appearing very, very average.


Love. Good Feeling. Getting divorced. Good for Women. Bad for Men. Why? Because women take everything. It doesn't. Matter. If she was pleasant. The sex was good. The man still ends shafted. Meaning. He's risking bankrupt. Living in the streets.

Just more ridiculously incorrect assertions?

Even if your assertions were right, they'd be trumped by the millions of women assaulted by their husbands every year, but since your premise is incorrect to start withm, there's no point going there.


It's easy.

It is easy!

It's like having spent a moring shooting skeet and suddenly being asked to hit a barn door. You could maybe brush up on subtelty.


It's easy. To want to get married. When. YOU. Have nothing. to waste. Men. On the other hand. Can't afford. That.

Poet. Yeah, right.


here we go again. Do you want me to arrange you a meeting with divorced men?(not the ones who cheated and were bad partners).

Hell yeah, keep those cheating slobs and abusive husbands out.

They just might happen to form a majority, which I alluded to above.


Do you want to know about the suicide percentages of the divorced male?

Yes, I certainly do. Please quote details, ensuring you allow for cases of depression where the break-up can be only partly blamed.

You go get those and I'll come back with the number of inter-marital assaults, murders and rapes every year.

Fancy $10 on the outcome?


The financial consequences of divorces?

Sure, although it's more likely I'll tell you.


The emotional backlash of losing the child?

There are a couple of parts to this, foremost of which is, what the hell would you know about it? You don't have kids, so are basing your opinion solely on some ebittered rubbish by loudmouth fools.

Secondly, fathers don't "lose" children after a divorce, and there are lots of fathers who play a highly actove role in upbringing after divorce.

Third, seeing as how you're such an intelligent and logical bloke, we could compare figures of fathers who would seek custody of their kids with those who escape their responsibilities by running away.

Oh yeah, you're rich as well; we could have another $10 on that one.


The man very rarely gets the kid. Do you want to know how much pain a man feels when he doesn't see his child? 2 times a month? is that all? Do you know how it feels when men see their kids being raised by other males?

Do you?

No.

Empty rhetoric.


Men are made to be glorious. Do you understand that? Do you understand the quality of a van Gogh? of a Neil Armstrong? Any man can be like them, if they free themselves from the chains of society i,e; children and women.

:lol:

In all of your rubbish, that on'es actually not too bad. I'm presuming you saw it elsewhere, because your originality is not evident elsewhere.


Do I sound drastic? You can bet your pink horse.

I'd bet anything against "drastic". "Inconsequential", "conflicting" spring to mind, but nowhere near "drastic". What's a pink horse worth these days?


Will I achieve my goals? You can bet two pink horses.

Your goal of remaining celibate?

I'd put my house on it; no bet.


Men aren't made for women, and women aren't made for men. Marriage has always been a bad contract for men. Love is about rising above nature; achieving power beyond imagination by doing something great, by making yourself great.

You're recommending a gay lifestyle?

Some sense at last!


I'm not arguing that love doesn't exist. How can I argue what is a fact? love has been proven to be nothing more than a physical/chemical reaction to proper stimulation. I could make you fall in love. I can make the woman next door fall in love. How? because I understand the principles of "love".

Understanding without understanding. That's fairly original, but certainly not unknown.


After the 5th female, sex turns out to be the same.

I'm removing all the irrelevant posturing as I work through, but I figured this was funny enough to mention.

Have you ever read any books about sex? I suggest you try a couple, because five is a very small sample, and my experience has been almost exactly the opposite - it's virtually never the same. (and with a few more than 5)


What you want and what other women want from me is to stay a teenager forever.

Worked.


What in Heaven's name am I?

there's a very good question. Unfortunately, other than "wrong on almost everything" I couldn't say. I suspect it's some kind of attempt to make up for some inadequacy of your own, but you could just be failing to be funny.


Right. Will God also smitten me if I say his name in vain?

Can't imagine so.

I've been doing it forever and remain smote-less.


I speak for the guys my father has to deal with (and I in the same fashion), when they reach his office wanting to keep a little percent of their money, of their house, their children whatever.

All that inheritance and your father has an office and deals with losers?

What a bloke!


One only has to look at the draconian laws, geared to prejudice men; in England, there's a new law that states that if a man has his own house but has a child with a woman, the woman gets the house.

More fabrication. It gets a bit tedious after a while.


For your information, you only need to live a few years(in Australia: 6 months)together, for the govt. think of you as married, treat you as married, and give to you all the benefits when separation happens.

Quite right. It'd be so much fairer if guys just abrogate all their responsibilities.


Bad boys, well, we just don't give a damn about anything or anyone; we're perpetual James Deans - knowing that women fall for that guy, we either "pontificate" him or we just don't care; we are the real deal.

:lol:

Sorry, but you do make me laugh.

"Real deals" don't generally need to tell everyone how tought they are.


I gotta stop writing poetry for women, though, imagine that, when I become famous, they can earn much money with them :brickwall.

You know, I just don't see that as a worry.


The Bad boy - Well, I simply just don't give a damn. They say I look far better without a beard but because I don't care, about what they want or like or need, I go months without shaving my beard.

Wow, you really are BAD!


I've also gone months without washing my hair or changing my clothes - I have oily hair.

Although you're a poet verging on international fame, I think I should point to you that dirsty is not a synonym for bad.


I'm nothing of the thug, most of the bad boy and most of the charmer. Hm, in a way, I'm a god damn freak of nature :wave:.

This is believable.


My father, my father lies on the 4th group. The group that enabled society to come to live. My father's group. He's 52 year old, handsome male(in a masculine way: 6'1' with proper weight, mustache) etc.

Very similar age to me.

I'd be subtracting several thousand points for giving you such a lousy education, but that's just me.


Me? All i want is fun, a lifetime of fun. I'm too much dead and gone from the ordinary world to worry myself about the certainties of adult "manhood" . Thankfully, my fickle and emotional nature saves me from the mistakes the 4th group makes, ahaha.

This is quite interesting because I think there's a nugget of truth in there. It;s difficult to separate your true feelings because of the incoherence and contradiction in your posts, but I do believe you want a lifetime of fun.

You just have no idea how to go about it.


Life is sweet.

Funny how you keep telling us.

If life is so sweet, why on earth do you think you'll gain any extra sweetness from coming in here and ranting like some kind of parody misogynist?


Did you know that by law, if a man doesn't pay alimony, he goes to jail? You miss one payment: jail for you!

More of those tedious fabrications.

You really ought to stop them now.

[The Atheist]

Nice post athiest! *applauds*

Too easy.

:D

Can you find me someone a bit older, smarter and more coherent next time?

Still, it's a good segue into the kind of fantasy people forced into celibacy come up with to support their lack of nookie.

[soundofmusic]

Getting silly? This discussion was silly from the beginning and kept going down hill. :lol:

:mad: Virgil, I'm hurt; my sensitive female ego may never get over this :goof:




Just one case: I had one 33 year old girlfriend leave her husband and three kids because she mistakenly thought I was going to become her new husband.

Of course, I didn't bother letting her know that I wasn't her soulmate, I just started having sex with one of her competitors.

:angel: I wonder why I suddenly find you irresistible:redface:





Can you find me someone a bit older, smarter and more coherent next time?



Hum, Hum, I just kind of spead read and got to that part...can't claim coherence....I don't have to babysit, do I?:lol:

[The Atheist]

:angel: I wonder why I suddenly find you irresistible:redface:

You're a sad, sad case.

:D



Hum, Hum, I just kind of spead read and got to that part...can't claim coherence....I don't have to babysit, do I?:lol:

Smart move, it wasn't worth reading.

Babysitting? Hell yeah, we could do with a babysitter. How are at you changing nappies? Still remember how to do it?

;)

[JuniperWoolf]

Thank you so much for schooling him Atheist. I don't think that I could have done it without exploding in rage and chucking my printer at my boyfriend's book case. Even though he is lying about basically everything that he said except for his own misogyny, I couldn't stand to read the words. His posts reminded me of that Polytechnique coward.

[soundofmusic]

You're a sad, sad case.

:D


Babysitting? Hell yeah, we could do with a babysitter. How are at you changing nappies? Still remember how to do it?

;)

:cool: And now that I find that you took on a whole group of neighborhood blokes...Well, you know the whole "West Side Story" female thing...:redface:

After years of exposure to adults wearing nappies; I assure you a baby will be a cinch; but why don't we just leave the wife home with the kids, take off with Jocky, his twin and the bank earnings, pick up geralds free tickets to the bunny ranch and I'll drink tea with the ladies, get some tips on pole dancing and you can have a lap dance by a lady wearing an Anaconda and a pink Boa?

[QUOTE=Leannain;80957[/QUOTE]

:wave: And to think, I never thought I'd meet my soulmate:banana::banana:

Now, I'm way past thirty; so I only want men for their intellect or body...And I can have their intellect without washing their dishes. We will have to discuss this professional relationship between you and your urologist; I don't trust men who hang out with people who spend all day shoving sharp instruments and rubber tubing up peoples penises.

Tesla: wasn't he the fellow that invented that hurricane device; tried to use it as a sex toy and sent the police down the street...Oh, never mind; I'm getting him confused with John Bobbit:;)

[The Atheist]

Thank you so much for schooling him Atheist. I don't think that I could have done it without exploding in rage and chucking my printer at my boyfriend's book case. Even though he is lying about basically everything that he said except for his own misogyny, I couldn't stand to read the words. His posts reminded me of that Polytechnique coward.

:D

You just have to deconstruct little people like that. No doubt he'll toddle off and do the same thing somewhere else.


:cool: And now that I find that you took on a whole group of neighborhood blokes...Well, you know the whole "West Side Story" female thing...:redface:

Actually, I'm such a Philistine, I've never seen West Side Story.


After years of exposure to adults wearing nappies; I assure you a baby will be a cinch; but why don't we just leave the wife home with the kids, take off with Jocky, his twin and the bank earnings, pick up geralds free tickets to the bunny ranch and I'll drink tea with the ladies, get some tips on pole dancing and you can have a lap dance by a lady wearing an Anaconda and a pink Boa?

Crikey, I'd need a pacemaker to keep up.

Even better, we'll get jocky to babysit - he'll knock the kids out with some single malt and we can all go for a sing song at the local pub!


:Tesla: wasn't he the fellow that invented that hurricane device; tried to use it as a sex toy and sent the police down the street...Oh, never mind; I'm getting him confused with John Bobbit:;)

:lol:

[soundofmusic]

[QUOTE=The Atheist;81054

Actually, I'm such a Philistine, I've never seen West Side Story.

Crikey, I'd need a pacemaker to keep up.

Even better, we'll get jocky to babysit - he'll knock the kids out with some single malt and we can all go for a sing song at the local pub!

:lol:[/QUOTE]

Really, I never saw West Side Story all the way through either; I did see the lead, George Chakiris in M Butterfly in london; he was incredible. I wrote him and told him how wonderful he was and he sent me a lovely card...Great guy!

Are you going to get one of those everstart pacemakers that keep you alive after you're dead...No kidding, they keep shocking you!

I like the idea of Jocky as babysitter; are you sure you really want to expose your wife to me...She's a innocent, beautiful young lady isn't she; she may faint dead away at my pub conversation:banana:

You never told the rest of your Scottish imitation story...maybe at the pub, huh?

[The Atheist]

Are you going to get one of those everstart pacemakers that keep you alive after you're dead...No kidding, they keep shocking you!

No dying for me - I'm going to be cloned.


I like the idea of Jocky as babysitter; are you sure you really want to expose your wife to me...She's a innocent, beautiful young lady isn't she; she may faint dead away at my pub conversation:banana:

Haha! She might be a bit of alright, but she's no lady and is very hard to shock.


You never told the rest of your Scottish imitation story...maybe at the pub, huh?

Sure!

[soundofmusic]

No dying for me - I'm going to be cloned.

Haha! She might be a bit of alright, but she's no lady and is very hard to shock.


Sure!

Well, clone an extra for me; Perhaps I have been just purchasing the wrong vintage...maybe the heartier, spicer New Zealand would have just the piquance I need...
I hear clones love you even when you're 85 and wrinkled:nod: Yeah, they don't fool me with all that stem cell stuff for parkinsons...they want to create a new race of love partners for the ever-aging, wealthy baby-boomers:lol:

[SleepyWitch]

I'm not picking on anyone, lass. This whole feminized world that makes men bend over to please and support women is what annoys me. Saddens me as well.

feminized world? last time I checked, the scenario you are describing was called the good old patriarchal world.

[soundofmusic]

feminized world? last time I checked, the scenario you are describing was called the good old patriarchal world.

Now folks, don't find fault; maybe he did have a bad experience the last time he bent over to please a ........woman:eek:
Now, if I were part of the great male sex; before I bent over to please a woman I would check: Does she have an adam's apple? Is she over 6 feet tall? Does she have razor burn on her back? Does she have a tatoo of a heart with "mama" on her arm?

[gbrekken]

now that I've finished laughing my arse off for the last hour-

where's george carlin when you need him to make short shrift of windbags-well done A-though you went to great lengths to do the right thing.

tickets to the ranch are not free. I told you I don't go there, in spite of the recommendation yesterday at the bar by a female real estate agent of their new york steak sandwich (true-but maybe she was yanking my chain about the sandwich-I'll never know, unless they hire me to keep drunks out-oops-rules me out)

the only benefit of my celibacy is that I retain faithfulness to myself ( a hopeless romantic I know). therefore there is no con to it. some things are more valuable, even though others may say it makes me inhumane to myself.

Bobbitt and Tesla in the same sentence? Wow. Bobbitt's still an a--. The bunnies loved him because of the notoriety. The only job he could get was as bouncer at one of Hoff's ranches. West side was a musical? no wonder I never saw it-didn't get the reference to the woman thing.

[The Atheist]

tickets to the ranch are not free. I told you I don't go there, in spite of the recommendation yesterday at the bar by a female real estate agent of their new york steak sandwich (true-but maybe she was yanking my chain about the sandwich-I'll never know, unless they hire me to keep drunks out-oops-rules me out)

:lol:

Steak sandwiches are overrated.

Just one slice is always enough, then you can choose between plain or wholemeal.

[soundofmusic]

-didn't get the reference to the woman thing.

That's what I hate about all this subtle comedy...What was it about Bobbit; the lady's must have something for dating guys from Ripleys...

[martianwarrior]

what is the meaning of Life?

God is the Creator. Creation is the product of the Creator. that which is created from the Creator's Creation is all that is alive, Life. backtrack; God is no man. God is Love. the Creator is Love. all that is alive is created out of Love, from Love and in Love. the great creative energy is Love.

the meaning of Life is Love.


to me, this is quite literal and clear. i'm not saying everyone feels this way or that everyone should. however, knowing this in my heart and feeling it in the trenches of my soul has truly been one huge step in the process of becoming physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually free.

recently i've begun thinking about celibacy and how my philosophy on the meaning of Life connects to it.

i haven't had sex in almost three years and i've only had sex with one girl a handful of times. during the previous two years or so, i was not having sex no because i didn't want to, but it also was not because of lack of opportunity. I was indifferent and at the same time i was not ever really into just hooking up. to me, sex is deeply spiritual in nature and in the act of doing so, much energy and information is exchanged. this can be a good or bad thing. also, just from my first experience, the girl i was with couldn't handle not being with me. she would lust after me so extremely and for me that was too much. she told all of her friends who were my friends too that my goods were "beautiful". i'll admit, this made my head a little big for a short time, but i didn't really do much with it expect feel proud of myself haha. the girls she shared our experience with subsequently wanted to be with me just as bad if not worse at times. most guys would think it would be totally cool to be in that position but for me, no. i felt like a piece of meat that was being bid on or something.

in the end, the "child" that was born in my ego and the reputation that suddenly surrounded me was spiritually unfulfilled. to be spiritually fulfilled in any relationship, sexual or not, friendships, family relations etc. is always my goal and something i constantly strive towards. doing so eventually leads to feel the need to disconnect myself from certain people and groups and is the reason why i don't see any of those people anymore. i don't really have friends anymore except for at work and i don't really chill with those people. i have even come to feel abandonment from my own family which i was adopted into.

after spending three years not having sex and slowly pushing my now ex-friends away from me, i feel more spiritual than ever. this is also due to changes in diet and lifestyle. i don't use drugs, smoke or drink anymore. i'm more active and i eat a 100% RAW diet. i'm pursuing astrology and mixed martial arts. i'll be signing up for ballet lessons in a few weeks. just doing everything i want to do with my life. i have to wonder though, if not deeply and intimately entangling myself with another being did or didn't have something to do with my new found happiness and feeling more grounded.

to clarify, my "celibacy" is only partial. i do masturbate, but not every day. sometimes i do a few days in a row. sometimes i don't a few months at a time. it's really random and sort of weird now that i think about it lol.

the thing that i'm struggling with, is the fact that there's this study that says DO IT! it's good for your health. there's another study that says to save your seed as it is a vital life force that you can use as energy. i guess there is no one way that is better for your health. having sex routinely keeps testosterone levels up and abstaining seems to promote more drive and overall energy. both make sense and are convincing.

i've been partially celibate for so long now and still don't feel the need to have sex, nor do i find myself being particularly lustful after any girls. i am attracted to certain females, but i usually find that that attraction is only skin deep and i just don't want that girl to be all over me. it's just uncomfortable. i feel like taking a shot a complete celibacy might be an interesting and potentially spiritually rewarding experience.


thoughts?...

[soundofmusic]

what is the meaning of Life?

God is the Creator. Creation is the product of the Creator. that which is created from the Creator's Creation is all that is alive, Life. backtrack; God is no man. God is Love. the Creator is Love. all that is alive is created out of Love, from Love and in Love. the great creative energy is Love.

the meaning of Life is Love.


to me, this is quite literal and clear. i'm not saying everyone feels this way or that everyone should. however, knowing this in my heart and feeling it in the trenches of my soul has truly been one huge step in the process of becoming physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually free.

recently i've begun thinking about celibacy and how my philosophy on the meaning of Life connects to it.

i haven't had sex in almost three years and i've only had sex with one girl a handful of times. during the previous two years or so, i was not having sex no because i didn't want to, but it also was not because of lack of opportunity. I was indifferent and at the same time i was not ever really into just hooking up. to me, sex is deeply spiritual in nature and in the act of doing so, much energy and information is exchanged. this can be a good or bad thing. also, just from my first experience, the girl i was with couldn't handle not being with me. she would lust after me so extremely and for me that was too much. she told all of her friends who were my friends too that my goods were "beautiful". i'll admit, this made my head a little big for a short time, but i didn't really do much with it expect feel proud of myself haha. the girls she shared our experience with subsequently wanted to be with me just as bad if not worse at times. most guys would think it would be totally cool to be in that position but for me, no. i felt like a piece of meat that was being bid on or something.

in the end, the "child" that was born in my ego and the reputation that suddenly surrounded me was spiritually unfulfilled. to be spiritually fulfilled in any relationship, sexual or not, friendships, family relations etc. is always my goal and something i constantly strive towards. doing so eventually leads to feel the need to disconnect myself from certain people and groups and is the reason why i don't see any of those people anymore. i don't really have friends anymore except for at work and i don't really chill with those people. i have even come to feel abandonment from my own family which i was adopted into.


to clarify, my "celibacy" is only partial. i do masturbate, but not every day. sometimes i do a few days in a row. sometimes i don't a few months at a time.

i've been partially celibate for so long now and still don't feel the need to have sex, nor do i find myself being particularly lustful after any girls. i am attracted to certain females, but i usually find that that attraction is only skin deep and i just don't want that girl to be all over me. it's just uncomfortable. i feel like taking a shot a complete celibacy might be an interesting and potentially spiritually rewarding experience.


thoughts?...

I believe, Martain, that the spiritual involvement you seek with another human being will only occur when your other needs are met. Right now, you are trying to find yourself. The fact that you masturbate shows that you have a biological desire for sex. Be open to what your mind is telling you and don't make any assumptions about anything, at this time, is written in stone; sexual behavior is very adaptive...as are humans.

[martianwarrior]

I believe, Martain, that the spiritual involvement you seek with another human being will only occur when your other needs are met.

i agree with that, which is why i feel like i should abstain from sex and masturbation until that day comes. i think the only reason i masturbate is because it's something that i'm used to doing, it's just a normal part of life. if i would have had more sex when i was younger, i probably wouldn't even be thinking about celibacy. but, i used to smoke a lot of weed for like 4 or 5 years. eventually, i just stopped wanting to get high even though i was still doing it. and yes, i know, as you've said...


The fact that you masturbate shows that you have a biological desire for sex.

i partially agree with this... the fact that i masturbate, to me, shows more that my brain and body are used to feeling good from this act on a semi-regular basis, not that i want to have sex. if i just wanted some straight up and down(no pun intended) sex, no strings attached, i would have and could have done so by now. i only have a desire for the good feeling, not all of the complications that come along with having sex and i only have a desire for that good feeling because it is something that i'm used to. just like i was only smoking weed to feel good, happy and relieve stress, not because i liked coughing and having poor circulation etc.

when you have sex with someone, i know for me, it was hard to not think about that person and want that person. even when i meet someone who i'm physically attracted to, it's hard to not think about that person. i know some people enjoy that daydreaming mindset that having a lover gives you. i like making useful time of my mental activity. call me crazy...


Right now, you are trying to find yourself.

i can't really say that i'm "trying" to find myself. i'm just finding myself and lot of other things about the people who surround me. it's just happening. i know that sounds unlikely, but you don't have to believe that. it is, however, just the way it is. my spirituality has taken leaps and bounds in the past year and it has happened while not having sex and not really having much human contact at all outside of being at work. i spend a lot of time on my own and i am happier because of it. right now, my spirituality feels like it can't grow any stronger, which only means that it can and will as long as i continue to...


Be open to what your mind is telling you and don't make any assumptions about anything.

... and right now my mind is sort of hinting at celibacy. that's why i'm here, because my heart and mind is open. wide open. this is a decision that the Creator wants me to make on my own, decisively and distinctly. rarely do any of my spiritual advances come in the form of any sort of divine inspiration, although it does happen. usually, i receive hints in the form of my thoughts and feelings. so far so good.

[Dinkleberry2010]

We must practice celibacy in order to conserve our precious bodily fluids.

[soundofmusic]

... and right now my mind is sort of hinting at celibacy. that's why i'm here, because my heart and mind is open. wide open. this is a decision that the Creator wants me to make on my own, decisively and distinctly. rarely do any of my spiritual advances come in the form of any sort of divine inspiration, although it does happen. usually, i receive hints in the form of my thoughts and feelings. so far so good.
You've kind of lost me here Martian. Mind you, there are some who believe that the Creator is in all of our bedrooms when we masturbate; I hope not.
If you stopped masturbating, would you merely replace it with some other form of self gratification? I tend to think that at certain ages, our minds take us on a spiritual journey: we remember, we learn, we analyze things. Whatever age you are, this is what I think you are doing. I wouldn't put so much emphasis on the release of a few fluids; 15 minutes out of your day won't interfer that much with your life.


We must practice celibacy in order to conserve our precious bodily fluids.
Please enlighten us further Jermac; you left us with a broken parachute:D

[Noisms]

We must practice celibacy in order to conserve our precious bodily fluids.

I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love...Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women, er, women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake...but I do deny them my essence.

;)

[martianwarrior]

You've kind of lost me here Martian. Mind you, there are some who believe that the Creator is in all of our bedrooms when we masturbate; I hope not.

yes, the Creator is Life, meaning all that is alive. however, there is a part of Life that we cannot sense. to me, such a fear of God watching us masturbate is irrelevant. as i have said, God is no man, nor does God posses any human qualities. in other words, if the Creator cannot feel uncomfortable about what we do, then why should we fear the presence of the Creator, for it is everywhere and always.


If you stopped masturbating, would you merely replace it with some other form of self gratification?

no, i already know that i don't need to. i see masturbation as an impulse that is based off a habit. it can easily be deleted.


I tend to think that at certain ages, our minds take us on a spiritual journey: we remember, we learn, we analyze things. Whatever age you are, this is what I think you are doing.

now you've lost me... it seems like your saying i'm just walking around in la la land lol. could please specify what you mean by this... the quality and/or nature of my personal spiritual journey is proportional to my obedience to God. btw, i'm 21.


I wouldn't put so much emphasis on the release of a few fluids; 15 minutes out of your day won't interfer that much with your life.

hmm... i dunno... losing blood is one thing. unnecessarily releasing your seed, something that has the power to spawn life... it seems like something that deserves extra thought and consideration.


Jermac We must practice celibacy in order to conserve our precious bodily fluids.

yes, jermac... i'm interested too. how do you know this? did you read this? there has to be more to it than just that. it sounds like a good idea, but there has to be more to prop up this idea. if not hard evidence, at least an extensive theory.

[Noisms]

hmm... i dunno... losing blood is one thing. unnecessarily releasing your seed, something that has the power to spawn life... it seems like something that deserves extra thought and consideration.


Like most men, I put lots of thought and consideration into that. :D

[martianwarrior]

i read the plot for this move you speak of... it doesn't seem to have any relevance to the discussion of celibacy. perhaps i'm wrong.

[Noisms]

i read the plot for this move you speak of... it doesn't seem to have any relevance to the discussion of celibacy. perhaps i'm wrong.

One of the characters in the film is a US Air Force General who goes insane and starts ranting about denying women his essence and the importance of preserving bodily fluids. One of the all time classic scenes in cinema. You should check it out, it might give you some perspective. ;)

[martianwarrior]

hmm... well, i'm not really into t.v. or movies. i'll give it a try though, thanks for the suggestion.

[soundofmusic]

Okay guys, all this talk of not "giving a woman your essence"; you know, sex is a pretty limp:lol: package in itself with out "your essence" and that physical connection...Do you really feel that you are so irresistable to attract woman through the telepathy of a phallus?

[martianwarrior]

"essence" has less to do with telepathy or one's phallus and more to do with the nature of your soul, i believe. it's that untouchable "something" that others are attracted to.

[Noisms]

Okay guys, all this talk of not "giving a woman your essence"; you know, sex is a pretty limp:lol: package in itself with out "your essence" and that physical connection...Do you really feel that you are so irresistable to attract woman through the telepathy of a phallus?

Yes. :ladysman:

For the record I was just quoting Dr. Strangelove. I think this whole debate is utterly crazy.

[Scheherazade]

The OP:
This is basically a continuation of the very popular thread: Benefits of Chastity and Celibacy. It has been removed from the Religious thread so that we may consider all of the mental, physical, and spiritual advantages and disadvantages of Celibacy in a mature and accepting fashion.

What is your opinion? Is a celibate lifestyle practical? Does it improve athletic performance? Does it make one more spiritual, closer to nature?

[soundofmusic]

The OP:

Well folks, I think this topic died in the water a year ago; but as for me, the celibate lifestyle has only made me irritable, fat and lazy. I now have to remind myself to shave my legs and my eyes are getting too bad to see the little hairs that tend to grow in strange places on the face. When I dye my hair, the mostly gray tones give it a strange orangish black effect; but not attractive like the guy on twilight. My sacrum is not properly exercised, so I have to use tons of motrin and a heating pad; but my frequent daily naps have caused me to burn out my heating pads. ....

Any Ideas

[DanielBenoit]

Rant on abstinence: If this doesn't fit into the celibacy subject or is too serious and rhetorical for a General Chat thread, then I'll delete it.


I don't buy into the whole abstinence thing at all. I live with an evangelical Christian family and my 22 year old step-sister wore one of those 'promise rings' for her mom in her teens. Not only that, but she's planning now to marry her boyfriend whom she's been dating for about four months. That's my big beef with the 'no sex before marriage' thing; it forces young adults into hasty marriages because of their natural urges and instincts. Marriage shouldn't be taken lightly and how would she know if she is even sexually compatible with this guy? Sex isn't everything in a relationship, but it's still a pretty big thing.

I do not believe in promiscuity or infidelity at all, but at the same time, I do think that the guy/girl who marry their first boyfriend/girlfriend right off the bat are kinda missing out on all of the varieties of relationships and experiences they can have.

While we're on the subject I will like to bring up one other negative side-effect of abstinence; that is, parents (especially religious parents) and schools that teach abstinence education who claim that abstinence is the only guaranteed solution to not becoming HIV-positive (which it is), but don't realize that an extremely few teens/young adults are going to be able to hold it in until marriage. And when they fail to hold it in, they practice unsafe sex because their parents/teachers didn't teach them about condoms and birth control pills, and they most likely end up with an unintended child at 17.

I'm not saying this theoretically, I know from actual experience. My other step-sister (who is 18) got pregnant when she was 17 because she had no idea that condoms were even necessary. The sin here is when parents/teachers put it into kids heads that since condoms aren't 100% guaranteed to prevent consumption, then they're useless. Now I love my little niece and she has been a blessing to this family, but my sister at 18 has just lost out on a big benefit and part of her young adult life, that is; being independent and free.

There are a suprisingly good deal of young people that I know who have had the same varying situations, and every time I hear about them it makes me cringe in both anger and disgust that they, through their own ignorance, have caused themselves to loose the benefits of being 18 and out in the world and will be stuck at home with a screaming child.


Concerning Masturbation

As a minor side-note: I have found in my experience, living as I said in an evangelical home, that parents who discourage masturbation are doing nothing but contradicting the teen's natural psychology and biological instincts. Masturbation, while being nothing to the actual experience of intercourse, is in fact the safest sex one can ever have, for it is only with yourself.

If I were a parent and I were to ever catch my kid masturbating, I would, (depending on if he was in the 11 to 14 range) sit him down later and tell him that it is okay to masturbate just as long as he does it in the privacy of his own room (or bathroom) and never does it in public. And that's, that.

Am I turning this into too much of a parenting thread?


I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love...Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women, er, women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake...but I do deny them my essence.

;)

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids!

[OrphanPip]

Celibacy blows, and if you say otherwise you're a liar.

[Emil Miller]

Dying is a very dull, dreary affair. And my advice to you is to have nothing whatever to do with it. W. Somerset Maugham English dramatist & novelist.


The same goes for celibacy.

[qimissung]

What y'all said. :D

[soundofmusic]

:confused::confused5::leaving::leaving::leaving:

[Scheherazade]

R e m i n d e r:

The OP:
This is basically a continuation of the very popular thread: Benefits of Chastity and Celibacy. It has been removed from the Religious thread so that we may consider all of the mental, physical, and spiritual advantages and disadvantages of Celibacy in a mature and accepting fashion.

What is your opinion? Is a celibate lifestyle practical? Does it improve athletic performance? Does it make one more spiritual, closer to nature?

Please keep in mind that this Forum is open to people from various age groups as well as those who come from different social, religious and cultural backgrounds.

Off-topic posts will be removed without further notice.

[The Atheist]

Rant on abstinence: If this doesn't fit into the celibacy subject or is too serious and rhetorical for a General Chat thread, then I'll delete it.


I don't buy into the whole abstinence thing at all. I live with an evangelical Christian family and my 22 year old step-sister wore one of those 'promise rings' for her mom in her teens. Not only that, but she's planning now to marry her boyfriend whom she's been dating for about four months. That's my big beef with the 'no sex before marriage' thing; it forces young adults into hasty marriages because of their natural urges and instincts. Marriage shouldn't be taken lightly and how would she know if she is even sexually compatible with this guy? Sex isn't everything in a relationship, but it's still a pretty big thing.

Bingo!

I had a short and very unsuccessful marriage myself at a very early age. My girlfriend's family utterly refused to allow her to move in with me prior to marriage, and while we still managed to have plenty of sex, the fact that we were unable to be together when we wanted caused us to marry when I was 19 and she was 17. Her parents' objections were entirely based on religious grounds.

The marriage lasted over a year!

Just.


While we're on the subject I will like to bring up one other negative side-effect of abstinence; that is, parents (especially religious parents) and schools that teach abstinence education who claim that abstinence is the only guaranteed solution to not becoming HIV-positive (which it is), but don't realize that an extremely few teens/young adults are going to be able to hold it in until marriage. And when they fail to hold it in, they practice unsafe sex because their parents/teachers didn't teach them about condoms and birth control pills, and they most likely end up with an unintended child at 17.

Which is why USA leads the world in teenage pregnancy, while extremely open, secular societies like Holland dwell at the bottom of the table.

(Sex isn't the only way to contract HIV, either.)

[soundofmusic]

Bingo!

I had a short and very unsuccessful marriage myself at a very early age. My girlfriend's family utterly refused to allow her to move in with me prior to marriage, and while we still managed to have plenty of sex, the fact that we were unable to be together when we wanted caused us to marry when I was 19 and she was 17. Her parents' objections were entirely based on religious grounds.

The marriage lasted over a year!

Just.


I suppose, had I been a parent 30 years ago, I would still have prefered my daughter or son to marry rather than live with a person. I know the year before my marriage was a crazy time where I didn't really consider my actions; marriage at 18 really made me "grow up". Of course, it also made my daughter, who was born 2 years later, legitimate and forced responsibility on both sides.
I know I joke alot about sexual issues; but, I find it amazing how many patients I take care of, and these people range from 30 to 90, have STD's and don't know it.

[The Atheist]

I suppose, had I been a parent 30 years ago, I would still have prefered my daughter or son to marry rather than live with a person.

True, things were a little different then, plus NZ was about 20 years behind the rest of the world. Overall, it didn't make any difference to me because I don't see anything special about marriage anyway. It's just another human construct that I can go with or without. Pieces of paper don't really cut it in my world.



I know I joke alot about sexual issues; but, I find it amazing how many patients I take care of, and these people range from 30 to 90, have STD's and don't know it.

People seem to be unable to accept that there needs to be a compromise between enjoyment and safety. Let's face it - we joke about condoms, but they do work, and using one is still a long way preferable to getting none!

:D

[soundofmusic]

Overall, it didn't make any difference to me because I don't see anything special about marriage anyway. It's just another human construct that I can go with or without. Pieces of paper don't really cut it in my world.

, but they do work, and using one is still a long way preferable to getting none!

:D

Yep, that's exactly my thought of marriage; The paper means little but it's far preferable to getting none of the property during the divorce..:shocked: :smilielol5::party: