Your opinion.

[Adolescent09]

If a person you knew was planning to go on a killing spree and you couldn't notify the police what would you do?

[Maximilianus]

Depends on who's going to be killed. If it is for personal revenge against a mob kingpin and every related henchmen, I would probably even try to assist in some way. At least I wouldn't interfere if I knew that a person is going to avenge a murdered relative, for example. All of this is because I believe in justice by our own hand, IMHO.

On the other hand, if I knew the persons to be killed are innocent, then I would try to stop the killing spree at any cost.

[Zee.]

and the dodgiest thread award goes to..

[Niamh]

want to explain why you cant notify the police?
Why not tell someone who could?

[bazarov]

O tempora o mores :(

[papayahed]

by killing spree do you mean walking into a random mall and opening fire or do you mean a planned spree to target certain people?

[Hurricane]

Do everything possible to stop them. It's not my place--or his/her place--in the world to decide who lives and dies.
Also, this thread is wicked shady.

[DanielBenoit]

I would notify the police. I don't know why you couldn't.

[grotto]

Someone kill this thread before we read about it in the paper!

[Janine]

Someone kill this thread before we read about it in the paper!

Yeah, this is serious stuff. I don't think we should kid about things like this. I would definitely take the person seriously and call the authorities. I don't condone random violence or taking justice into one's own hands. This is not comic book world - real people suffer or die from killing sprees and NO ONE should doubt or take the person lightly who is threatening it - this is serious! This also, doesn't seem to be something to talk about on Litnet. I am rather appalled at the whole thing.

[Haunted]

If a person you knew was planning to go on a killing spree and you couldn't notify the police what would you do?

is this a joke????

What does it even mean, couldn't notify the police... Call the police!

[Adolescent09]

Do you believe a university in the United States will expel or provide psychiatric counselling for a student that is fantasizing about conducting a mass killing spree?

I hope i don't get banned for asking this, but I need an answer and I have absolutely nowhere else to go

[DanielBenoit]

Omg, yes! Okay?
If a person hears anywhere about a killing spree, they should notify the police.
If you know of a particular induvidual who is fantasizing about it, that doesn't mean that they're going to do it, but it does mean that they should seek psychriatic counselling IMMEDIATLY.

Now please stop posting questions like this on LitNet and please either notify the police or a psychiatrist, this is serious stuff!

[Haunted]

I don't think they would expel a student without cause, and having fantasies is not against the law.

But because of the nature of these fantasies, this hypothetical student should go straight to counseling on his/her own volition RIGHT AWAY.

If one is aware of this and not notify the police, then this person becomes accessory to murder after the fact.

This is not the time to worry about being expelled. Please go get this hypothetical student some serious help.

[skib]

My response based off of the word 'planning' rather than 'fantasizing':
If you can't notify the police, (which I think I might understand to a small degree,) I personally would step in. However, in the interest of the general public not expecting to be dodging bullets, it might be best to accept the possible consequences and ruin one person's life rather than multiple peoples' lives. It is a game of lesser evils.

OR

Choose the easy/irresponsible way out and let said person do their deed.

[IJustMadeThatUp]

I still don't understand why you couldn't notify the police...

[Admin]

Do you believe a university in the United States will expel or provide psychiatric counselling for a student that is fantasizing about conducting a mass killing spree?

I hope i don't get banned for asking this, but I need an answer and I have absolutely nowhere else to go
The university? No.

The local department of community health? Yes. Walk into a hospital and tell them the voices are telling you to kill people and they'll find a room for you right quick.

[Logos]

If a person you knew was planning to go on a killing spree and you couldn't notify the police what would you do?


Do you believe a university in the United States will expel or provide psychiatric counselling for a student that is fantasizing about conducting a mass killing spree?

I hope i don't get banned for asking this, but I need an answer and I have absolutely nowhere else to goThis is very disturbing stuff to read here and I hope, dear Adol, you're just being hypothetical!

[Hurricane]

Do you believe a university in the United States will expel or provide psychiatric counselling for a student that is fantasizing about conducting a mass killing spree?

I hope i don't get banned for asking this, but I need an answer and I have absolutely nowhere else to go

Expel? Probably not, and they can't "make" you seek counselling. But if you or anyone you know is thinking of some kind of killing spree they need psychiatric counseling. Like, now.

If this is real, notify authorities. NOW.

[Zee.]

ahaha, expulsion isn't what someone who is thinking thoughts of "mass murder" should be worried about..

[Michael T]

There are NO justifiable reasons for not reporting knowledge/fear of such intentions to the police or university authorities at the earliest possible opportunity. :eek2:

It might also be argued that it is the responsibility of forum moderators/admin to do likewise. :nod:

[Jozanny]

Why is it the responsibility of those who administer the site? The internet, though changing, is still a junkyard for the misfits and murder addicts, apparently. The moderators may have access to the OP's supposed personal information, but none of us know if he or she is another Virginia Tech massacre in the making, or just jerking around.

The forum is just another posting community, and has limits, like others of its kind. If the OP is really having problems, none of us can do anything except give nice common sense advice, and I refused to indulge until now.

[Michael T]

I would suggest that it is everyone’s responsibility to pass on genuine knowledge/fear of a possible massacre of innocents to people in a position to prevent it.

In the case of someone posting on a forum, only moderators/admin are in a position to pass on details that could quickly allow the relevant authorities to investigate and if necessary, prevent such a terrible act.

It is possible that the original poster is just playing a sick joke by starting such a thread. In that case they probably deserve a knock on the door from the police, and a lecture on the irresponsibility of such behaviour.

On the other hand he/she may well have real knowledge of someone planning or entertaining such thoughts, or be having such thoughts themselves and honestly be asking for help.

It is not uncommon for people who commit such acts to become detached from society, often communicating with the ‘outside world’ through mediums such as Internet forums and chat-rooms.

In this particular situation, the poster, for whatever reason, feels unable to contact the relevant authorities, instead posting their fears on this forum. Does that not put the people who use the forum and those responsible for running the forum in the same position as the original poster? We now have knowledge/suspicion of a possible massacre being planned. What reason do we have for not passing this information on to the authorities in order to perhaps prevent needless deaths. Would that not be the best help we could give the original poster in these circumstances?

[Hurricane]

+1 to Michael T. It's better to be safe than sorry--even if the OP is jerking around.
There is not a right to confidentiality on the internet. This is not a privacy issue. It is an issue of safety for the OP, their hypothetical friend, and the people that they could hurt.

[Janine]

^ in total agreement with both of you.

[Adolescent09]

It is possible that the original poster is just playing a sick joke by starting such a thread. In that case they probably deserve a knock on the door from the police, and a lecture on the irresponsibility of such behaviour.

I hope to God this was true. I'm begging you to be right. He cannot go to a psychiatrist because he does not want to be a slave to drugs, but he also doesn't want help. He wants this to happen because something is telling him that murder is a beautiful thing. When he thinks of death it is as though he hears music playing and in the midst of thousands of people the beautiful chimes seem to resound. He loves his mother, he doesn't want any problems, He loves people. He loves his fellow students but he believes he could make his love for them show more clearly if he had their blood on his hands. He doesn't want to seem like he's wining which is why he asked me to come here as a last resort. This really is not any of your problems, and if something happens none of you are or should feel responsible. Murder is a natural process of life and has occurred since long before the evolution of humans, hence entertaining such a notion isn't exactly anomalous. It is just that society believes he has problems because of the laws that are put in place to sustain order. He wants to see disorder in an orderly system and he does not know why.

His mother says that this is just an adolescent phase. Is this true? He doesn't think he needs help, he just needs to tell people his thoughts. He doesn't have any friends, his mother who is his only family doesn't take him seriously and as the days go by he becomes more and more convinced that mass killing is not only an option, it is his destiny. I'm not asking that you guys reply, I just need to make these thoughts public. The consequences will NOT effect you so you don't have to worry about taking it seriously or not. Thank-you and have a good day.

[Haunted]

This really is not any of your problems, and if something happens none of you are or should feel responsible. Murder is a natural process of life and has occurred since long before the evolution of humans, hence entertaining such a notion isn't exactly anomalous. ...I'm not asking that you guys reply, I just need to make these thoughts public. The consequences will NOT effect you so you don't have to worry about taking it seriously or not. Thank-you and have a good day.

Adolescent, There is nothing natural about murder. You are confusing dying of natural causes and killing people. Killing is an ugly business and it's against the law of society and the law of nature.

Because you made this known to us, it became our problem. Why so, you ask, that's because if something happens and we knew it and let it happen, that could make all of us "accessory to murder".

We share a collective guilt for doing nothing. The sin of omission is just as condemning as the sin of commission. You have engaged us, we now have a responsibility. Now do the right thing and go to the authority right away before someone gets hurt!!!

[Hurricane]

He wants this to happen because something is telling him that murder is a beautiful thing.

Well, it's not. Try telling that to the parents and friends of victims of Virginia Tech and Columbine, among others. It's a horrible, brutal thing that ruins lives and creates lasting anguish and pain for everybody involved. It tears communities apart in terrifying ways. I don't want to see pictures like this on the news. Ever. Again.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/VictimLibraryWindowColumbine.jpg

http://www.virginiatechmassacre.com/images/virginia-tech-massacre-1.jpg

The people your friend would hurt are not nameless and faceless lines of code in a video game. They are living, breathing, real human beings with emotions, thoughts, and personalities. They are the pictures in somebody's wallet and the center of somebody's world.
By telling us about it, you have given us a moral obligation, if not a legal one, to prevent this from happening. This does not have to be your friend's destiny. Even if this is an "adolescent phase", it's still a serious one. We've all been in dark places, but as soon as it progresses to the point where he becomes a harm to himself or others, it's not just his problem anymore. He can still get help, and you can help him. Get him to go to authorities.

[Michael T]

Adolescent09’s reply to my last post is less than reassuring to say the least. The post seems to leave us guessing as to whether this is some sort of silly adolescent game, or the workings of an unbalanced mind in serious need of help. The grammar in the last post especially would suggest that the ‘friend’ and the original poster are one and the same person. He tells us of his friend’s feelings, then in his own words, expresses the thought that “ Murder is a natural process of life” etc, and tells us not to worry about the consequences.
The fact is, some people do worry about the consequences of not taking such a thread seriously. To continue the thread as long as Adolescent09 has without revealing it to be hypothetical or a joke is, I believe, bordering on the unhealthy, and beyond reckless. If it is hypothetical, Adolescent09 has seemingly spurned the opportunity to ‘come clean’ and alleviate the growing concerns of fellow Lit-Net members. I would think it unusual for someone who has been a member since 2006 to play such a practical joke. Adolescent09 seems to not understand or appreciate the serious consequences of posting, and continuing to post such thoughts on a public forum. Would it not be the wise course of action for Lit-Net moderators/administrators to play safe and pass the details of this member and their concerns to the relevant authorities?

[Hurricane]

Would it not be the wise course of action for Lit-Net moderators/administrators to play safe and pass the details of this member and their concerns to the relevant authorities?

Mods/admin, I'm not really in a position to tell anybody to do anything, but please do this.

[Jozanny]

It is not uncommon for people who commit such acts to become detached from society, often communicating with the ‘outside world’ through mediums such as Internet forums and chat-rooms.

In this particular situation, the poster, for whatever reason, feels unable to contact the relevant authorities, instead posting their fears on this forum. Does that not put the people who use the forum and those responsible for running the forum in the same position as the original poster? We now have knowledge/suspicion of a possible massacre being planned. What reason do we have for not passing this information on to the authorities in order to perhaps prevent needless deaths. Would that not be the best help we could give the original poster in these circumstances?

I realize the advocates for the site administrators to act are sincere, but I honestly think this creates an undue burden. I have been online for almost 13 years, and I was here when there were no moderators or forum rules, or terms of service, and I've seen a good deal of aggressive behavior in that time, including posters who were afraid of me when I lost my temper.

Now, Virgil knows I am really disabled and couldn't hurt a flea, even if I got mad and flamed someone, but if we over reacted and contacted the authorities every time someone crossed the line, situations like these would rapidly become unmanageable.

[Lulim]

^ But it is one thing to sometimes loose one's temper and make undue remarks in the spur of the moment, and another, to announce that there might be a potential mass murderer at large -- accompanied by increasingly disturbing details as to how the cogs in those hypothetical murderers' mind are working.

I completely agree with Michael T.

[DanielBenoit]

Okay, I'm going to stay out of the legal issues of this thread (I of course obviously think that the authorities should be contact IMMEDIETLY. Whether if that should be done by the mods, I don't know.) but instead I'm going to focus on this hypothetical person:

Okay dude, if whoever you are (hypothetical or real), please please please do not let your irrational emotions overtake you, and please use reason and good judegment. Extreme emotions can be like a drug and can have extremely delusionous effects. How is killing a bunch of people going to solve your problem? It's meaningless. There's no point to it. Nothing is more empty and nihilstic than murder.

What you should do is sit down and calm down, clear your mind and think beyond your present emotions. If you don't feel like you can discuss it with friends or family, then it is VITAL that you go to a psychiatrist and seek help.

[Logos]

Please don't think that us Moderators or Admin are ignoring this thread, we're not.

I'm sorry some of you are upset by this thread.

Adol I hope you're still reading this thread; please check your email and private messages.

[isidro]

Random killing spree of innocents? Grab the weapon and kill the person. Period.

[DanielBenoit]

Please, we don't need any more violent imagery.

I'm sure that we can deal with this without anyone getting hurt.

[Zee.]

well no one knows whether he is serious or not... so maybe this thread should be left alone, and maybe locked?

[Jozanny]

well no one knows whether he is serious or not... so maybe this thread should be left alone, and maybe locked?

We agree on something. As a lay professional, I know that young people with mental health disturbances often adjust and find balance pretty quicky if they receive appropriate supports without stigma attached. I have read over the OP's posts, and see no specific stressors written, no threats directed at particular targets, and hence, I think we need to be cautious against the very tendency of online culture, towards group think and group reaction. I initially did not respond, either to the humorous or more serious posts, so as not to feed the lion, so to speak.

Adolescent: Killing is not a beautiful thing. No death caused by violence is beautiful. These thoughts are fictions, and living individuals who cause death by any means are often traumatized themselves; whatever you are doing to focus your mind on this, you have the ability to change that focus, and if you do not want meds, that is understandable, but doesn't mean your should not consider therapy.

This is a literary forum, driven primarily by student and teaching interests, and your post, considered in this context, seems to be begging for attention in a manner that is inappropriate. Try a mental health forum, even to start, as a kind of baby step towards figuring out your needs, as you obviously have them, in your attempt to generate responses.

I wish you the best, really.

[Scheherazade]

Adolescent has been a member of this Forum for a long time and at a time he is sharing his worries and concerns with us, as things stand at the moment, I am not sure why it is necessary for us to close the thread.

Adolescent> I hope you will keep posting on the Forum and let us know how you are getting on at the College as well (I remember you were at the application stage) and share some of your poetry with us again.

[Zee.]

i only suggested that it be closed because it could get out of hand with everyone posting stressful comments, and freaking out

[Jozanny]

i only suggested that it be closed because it could get out of hand with everyone posting stressful comments, and freaking out

Yea, well, if I can be myself without getting into trouble, I think that the calls for Chris to be a hero here are amusing, and secondly, irresponsible, but I don't want to press the point too much further than that, because I will probably come off as sounding like I need to be right.

I have been online too long to be alarmed by posts like Adolescent's, but this, as well, I will consign to one sentence. I do, however, agree with you, and the thread is unpleasant, in any case.

[Haunted]

Please don't shut down this thread, please keep the dialogue open for Adolescent so he has a place to talk and work things out. The worst that can happen to someone in crisis is to shut them out. Those who find it disturbing may stay out of the thread.

I was thinking, could this be an experimental school project: let's put a shocker out there and see how people react. But this could be real too. I think it's wise to err on the side of caution.




His mother says that this is just an adolescent phase. Is this true? He doesn't think he needs help, he just needs to tell people his thoughts. He doesn't have any friends, his mother who is his only family doesn't take him seriously....I'm not asking that you guys reply, I just need to make these thoughts public.

Adolescent, I was thinking about what you said there and I'm touched by it. You may think you have no friends, but I'm sure there are people who care about you, and you don't want to hurt them. I take you seriously. You did the right thing by coming forward with your thoughts, now I hope help will find its way to you.

[Michael T]

I think it’s important to keep the thread open for as long as Adolescent09 feels it is beneficial for him.

Hi Adolescent09, thanks for replying to my post. If this is hypothetical it’s probably about time you let us know. The concerns your posts have generated in this thread are very real.

If however, you do have a friend that you are genuinely concerned for, you must realise that the best and only help you can give them is to ensure they receive professional help in coming to terms with their feelings and thoughts as soon as possible. Neither yourself nor anyone here on Lit-Net is qualified or in a position to give your friend the kind of assistance needed in order to ensure that neither their own life, nor the lives of others are unduly harmed. As for your fears, including about being a slave to drugs, seeking professional help does not necessarily mean having to take prescription drugs, alienation from friends and loved ones or expulsion from any college they may be attending. More likely that one to one talking with a professional who can help your friend make sense of their feelings and thoughts will soon alleviate any fears you may have, and allow them to integrate fully in college and home life with a better understanding of their own place and purpose in the world.

What you cannot allow to happen is for this friend’s feelings to go unchecked. If you believe there is the slightest possibility that their thoughts could change into actions endangering not only their own, but the lives of others, you must act now to ensure that help reaches them before anyone is harmed.

It is the fear that what you have told us is genuine, and that you yourself are - for whatever reason - unable to act, that has prompted posters on this thread, including myself, to urge the moderators/administrators to pass on this information to people who may be able to help your friend and ensure that no-one comes to harm.

I think we all want to know how you are coping, and look forward to hearing from you with an update on how things are progressing. :nod: