Brontes or Austen?

[LitNetIsGreat]

Of course the two are not exclusive, but who do you prefer: the works of Emily/Charlotte Bronte (even Anne if you like) or Jane Austen?

I personally prefer Emily and Charlotte to Austen. Brilliant as Austen is, her prose style sometimes irritates me a little, whereas the somewhat rugged nature of Emily and Charlotte's prose, Emily in particular, really does it for me. In particular I think Wuthering Heights a work of immense power. It is a shame that we only have the one novel from Emily, and Charlotte has proven herself a strong novelist with more than Jane Eyre, but we do have Emily's poetry too, to judge that her work is not a "one off".

You know, I have still not visited Haworth, and as the village is only about 45 miles from where I live, there is no excuses for that really. There is also a great cheese shop there too apparently, I think I will have to bike up there before the winter really closes in.

Anyway, who do you prefer?

(I'll add a poll for the hell of it, and to make it fair I'll split up the sisters.)

[wessexgirl]

I love them all too, but I have gone with Emily as I just love Wuthering Heights, one of my all-time favourite books, and for her poetry. I've never visited Haworth either, (although I'm further away than you), but I would love to go. Maybe one day.

[Frankie Anne]

I had to vote for Jane. I love her satire.

[Annamariah]

I'm torn between Jane and Charlotte - Jane Eyre is my favourite book, but then Jane Austen wrote more great books for me to read! I prefer to have books by both of them on my bookshelf (accompanied by Anne's and Emily's novels too, though I don't like those as much as I do Charlotte's and Jane's).

[Adagio]

Emily without a doubt. Wuthering Heights is such a powerful novel. The equivocal narration is what I like and the fact that it doesn't feel victorian at all, you really get a sense of the wild passion that occured on those moors. Jane Eyre is awesome too, but Emily just about tops Charlotte I feel.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Emily without a doubt. Wuthering Heights is such a powerful novel. The equivocal narration is what I like and the fact that it doesn't feel victorian at all, you really get a sense of the wild passion that occured on those moors. Jane Eyre is awesome too, but Emily just about tops Charlotte I feel.

Yes I absolutely think so, Wuthering Heights is so wild and unvictorian in nature, it is passion personified; whereas Austen's works, although obviously great, are much more controlled and dignified, the play of polite society. I would also add that Charlotte Bronte cannot be ignored either, Jane Eyre is a masterpiece too, Villette should also not be overlooked I think.

[qimissung]

Yes, the Brontes are all about passion, aren't they? Without a doubt, Wuthering Heights is the masterpiece of all the books written by the three authors.

As it is in the way of the heart, however, Jane Eyre is my favorite of the two, and I would have to say Austen edges out both of them as a personal favorite.

It is precisely the controlled nature of her writing that I both enjoy and find fascinating. So deliberate, so cool, as she rips away the membrane surrounding the human heart.

I have no doubt that people understood the machinations of their own society, but I also doubt very much that they were spoken of much then, as now.

[dfloyd]

the one has the passion that youger people admire. Austen has become much admired through the tv drmatization of her novels. However, IMO,
Charlotte is the best writer, and Jane Eyre is the best book.

[mona amon]

My vote goes to Charlotte. I love Jane Austen, but I feel her novels, while anything but superficial, just do not have the layers of meaning that a Bronte work has.

[bluosean]

Jane Austen. She is just so much better.

[JBI]

I prefer Austen's works, though I would suggest to anybody interested in English novels, especially good English novels, to read both - or at least Wuthering Heights (though not my favorite, it has grown on me the more I have picked at it). That being said, the joy of reading Austen is comparable to no other novelist by my personal aesthetic - whatever that is worth - so I would suggest everybody to run off, if they haven't yet, and down a few of her novels.

[Dark Muse]

I throughly enjoy Austen and I do love most of her work which I have read so far, but I am going to have to go with the Brontes over Austen, for I would say thier dark goticness (yeah I know it is not a word) has just one up for me over Austen's ironic humur.

[kelbel3abh]

Emily, Emily, Emily...that is all I can say!!

[prendrelemick]

Jane Austin by a country mile.

I just can't quite believe in the behavior of the Bronte characters.

Austin exposes her people's foibles and follies brilliantly. You can recognise them, people like that are still around today.

[sixsmith]

Yes I absolutely think so, Wuthering Heights is so wild and unvictorian in nature, it is passion personified; whereas Austen's works, although obviously great, are much more controlled and dignified, the play of polite society. I would also add that Charlotte Bronte cannot be ignored either, Jane Eyre is a masterpiece too, Villette should also not be overlooked I think.

Very much my thoughts. On returning to 'Wuthering Heights' i'm always astounded at the way Bronte conveys the passion of her protagonists. Such an unrestrained and unique work, as you say Neely.

[Three Sparrows]

But...but...where is Anne? My favorite Bronte book is The Tenant of Wildfell Hall.
Wuthering Heights and Shirley are my other favorites, but how can you not love the wildly temperamental characters of The Tenant? I can't see why Anne is always ignored, she is just as good as her sisters.
Oh well, I guess I'll just have to vote for Emily.:cold:

[LitNetIsGreat]

But...but...where is Anne? My favorite Bronte book is The Tenant of Wildfell Hall.
Wuthering Heights and Shirley are my other favorites, but how can you not love the wildly temperamental characters of The Tenant? I can't see why Anne is always ignored, she is just as good as her sisters.
Oh well, I guess I'll just have to vote for Emily.:cold:

Ah sorry there. I've read Agnes Grey and The Tenant of Wildfell Hall and didn't think too highly of them, certainly not in the light of the others. Also the vast majority of critical opinion favours Emily and Charlotte over Anne, so I didn't include her, though as it is about personal likes I guess I should have. I think Agnes Grey is the better of the two though, but it is a long time since I read them.

I've walked passed Anne's grave many times, as she is buried in St Mary's church at Scarborough, and not in the church vault in Haworth. It is a nice little church, just under the shadow of the castle and by the sea. It's quite atmospheric walking back up the cobbles, through the churchyard and up to the top of North bay overlooking the sea, especially at night. I always leave the hotel room window open at night, so that I can read and sleep to the sound of the sea. (I know one or two OK pubs there too, obviously, but generally it is not that good a place for pubs, I know one that serves Belgian beer at least).

Anyway, here is a great virtual tour of the churchyard:http://www.vrscarborough.co.uk/virtual-scarborough-tour/source/1949-anne-bronte-grave.html

Hope that makes up for the lack of voting option. :santasmil

[Scheherazade]

Anne Bronte has been included in the poll now.

[Dark Lady]

I think I've made my feelings about Wuthering Heights clear on other threads so I will not repeat my rant of annoyance and confusion here.

Although I do love Austen and I really liked The Tenant of Wildfell Hall, with Jane Eyre in my top five novels I have to vote Charlotte. Love her!

[LitNetIsGreat]

Annoyance and confusion? Come on, you are not listening to uncle Neely here, I told you that you should persevere with what is one of the greatest novels written in the English language, if not the greatest. :cold: Now that will be 50 lines from you girl, "I must re-read Wuthering Heights, I must re-read Wuthering Heights..."

[Frankie Anne]

What a wonderful link, Neely. Thanks so much for that. It looks really lovely there.

[bluosean]

Like someone else said Austens characters are very real. they are, for me, more real than any other characters in all of literature. That is the best thing about her and what makes her so great. Her books can be slightly boring, but they are so accurate. So just understood life so well. For most people life is a little more calm than a Dickens novel. Jane Austen is like life.

[qimissung]

Very much my thoughts. On returning to 'Wuthering Heights' i'm always astounded at the way Bronte conveys the passion of her protagonists. Such an unrestrained and unique work, as you say Neely.

Yes, "such unrestrained...work..."is what I love about the Brontes...all that passion free-floating on the lonely moors. How did they do that? I would have probably just been like this: :cold: or this: :eek: all the time; they had to go and write masterpieces.

[WICKES]

I That being said, the joy of reading Austen is comparable to no other novelist by my personal aesthetic - whatever that is worth - so I would suggest everybody to run off, if they haven't yet, and down a few of her novels.

Yes, I'd have to go for Jane Austen. Though I would add that Wuthering Heights is, IMHO, the equal of anything Austen wrote and a haunting, unnerving work of real power.

[The Comedian]

If only there were a "none of the above" option. . . . ;)

[LitNetIsGreat]

If only there were a "none of the above" option. . . . ;)

Right, that's two doing lines.

[Dark Lady]

Now that will be 50 lines from you girl, "I must re-read Wuthering Heights, I must re-read Wuthering Heights..."

But, Sir, the goldfish ate my copy and my brother stole the goldfish and I had a bad hair day and I have loads of other homework and...and...and...I don't want to!

[sixsmith]

Yes, "such unrestrained...work..."is what I love about the Brontes...all that passion free-floating on the lonely moors. How did they do that? I would have probably just been like this: :cold: or this: :eek: all the time; they had to go and write masterpieces.

Exactly. I seem to recall an anecdotal tale that they all pretty much lived in isolation and really didn't have very many experiences on which to draw. And Emily was basically a kid when she wrote it.

[prendrelemick]

That is the legend and the image. It was started by Mrs Gaskill in her biography of Charlotte, a book that often sacrifices accuracy for effect.

[Mathor]

Easily Jane Austen.

[prendrelemick]

That is the legend and the image. It was started by Mrs Gaskill in her biography of Charlotte, a book that often sacrifices accuracy for effect.


Anyone who wants a more accurate account can read Juliet Barker's excellent and properly researched books about the family.

[kiki1982]

I agree with Prendrelemick (great name by the way! ;)). Gaskell went out of her way to make Charlotte and the rest of the family look like poor sickly lonely beings. Even making the father look a right morose twit. Even Charlotte was hurt by it. She at some point wrote to the publisher that Gaskell seemed determined to reduce her. In fact they were so well read and so 'normal' (in terms of now), that they were kind of an excetion, for women of the time then. Maybe Gaskell could not get her head around that...

But as to the voting, I have read Austen, Jane Eyre (I thought that was the highest of the highest), but I have just started Wuthering Heights (only 1/3 through) and that is so original, so un-Victorian and even un-Regency/Georgian (as it plays then), that I will have to vote for that. It is scary almost. I suppose that Anne's work was more like Charlotte's? Emily being left alone with her aunt?

[mona amon]

It's ages since I read Anne Bronte, but I do remember that her books are nothing like Charlotte's. Each sister writes in a completely different way.

[Three Sparrows]

I have heard some critics say that Emily and Charlotte write their men as Byronic heros, and Anne write her women as Byronic heroines. Charlotte and Anne were widely different, and Charlotte even went so far as to criticize the subject of The Tenant. I almost feel like Emily and Anne are closer in style, though, even though they wrote for different reasons. Sometimes I even feel the authors are more interesting then their books; maybe that is why I like Anne.

[kiki1982]

I obviously explained myself badly... (I often do that, thinking faster than I write...) I meant to say that Emily's Wuthering Heights is much less Victorian than Jane Eyre, it is more Emily's own than Charlotte's work.

I don't know about Anne's, but Huntington is classed as a Byronic hero (like Rochester) who is made acceptable (he is nursed by his wife in the end). Heathcliff someone called 'The Byronic Hero gone berserk'. He is just the Byronic hero taken to the full without toning him down. He i hardly charming. Biographers put the divide down to the fact that Emily had in part another upbringing than Charlotte and Anne.

Charlotte criticised Anne's Tenant because she did no feel comfortable allegedly, with the violence in it. Rochester was implicitly dissipated, but Huntington was it plainly on the paper (not to mention Heathcliff on this...). It is implied that Huntinton dies of something like syphilis. Although Rochester was dissipated, or implied so, he was not portrayed in any way like that. Huntington is.

Charlotte was also not comfortable with Emily's WH because she did not agree with her religious views. I am not implying here that Emily was anti-religious as she is often (in my opinion mistakenly) called, far from, but maybe she could be seen as criticising the hypocrite Christian ways in Joseph... The difference between Anne and Charlotte on the one hand and Emily on the other would also be down to her upbringing by her aunt.

That is what I meant...

[prendrelemick]

Thats very perceptive of you Kiki. When you go around the Bronte home in Haworth, it is obvious that Emily's faith was strong, (perhaps the strongest of the three) but also simple and unfussy. I can well imagine her ridiculing Christian hypocracy and show.

[kiki1982]

Charlotte said she sat in church totally mute and saw Christians as wretches.

She was certainly not a biblical Christian (like Joseph), but maybe a better one like Nelly in the book. At least Nelly is less judgmental towards Heathcliff and gives the poor boy a chance.

I read an essay once about the fact that Emily's xway of believing was a metaphysical experiencing of God: God being in all that is around as opposed to classical Christianity.

I haven't got to Hawoth yet, but maybe if I'm in the neighbourhood I'll have a look once...

[Snowqueen]

Oh! It's a very tough choice to make but I voted. Great thread by the way.

[hawthorns]

Charlotte in Round 5. Love Emily's poetic writing, Jane's humor/wit, but Villette was the KO for me.

[dfloyd]

..... Wuthering Heights illustrated by Balthus. A remarkable book which runs about $3,000.

[wordeater]

Jane Austen wins on quantity, but "Wuthering Heights" and "Jane Eyre" belong to the greatest English language novels ever written.

[Lokasenna]

Oh, Austen all the way for me!

[Raven Falcon.]

Oh, Austen all the way for me!Dickens is superior to all of them.

[JuniperWoolf]

Poor Anne. Also, I meant to vote for Charlotte Bronte not Emily.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Anne is inferior to them all though and wasn't even included on the original poll.

I'm currently re-reading Pride and Prejudice and absolutely loving it.

[Lokasenna]

Dickens is superior to all of them.

Quite the claim!

I don't know, much as I love Dickens I think Austen is probably the better writer, and the one with the greater influence.

[Babyguile]

Dickens is superior to all of them.

I think that's a contentious claim to say the least.

[JuniperWoolf]

I've never read either of Anne Bronte's novels, but I have The Tenant of Wildfell Hall in a Bronte sisters' collection of works in my room somewhere. Someone once told me that I'd probably like her best, apparently her style is less romantic.

[Snowqueen]

I've read Agnes Grey and The Tenant of Wildfell Hall and I think these novels can't be considered as masterpieces of literature.

[kelby_lake]

Poor Anne!

[Lokasenna]

Poor Anne!

Just be glad Branwell isn't up there - he'd be faring even worse!

[KCurtis]

Poor Anne. Also, I meant to vote for Charlotte Bronte not Emily.

Yey! I love Jane Erye

[KCurtis]

I wish I could vote on this but it wouldn't be fair, I have only read Charlotte's Jane Erye, while I love it, I have not read Austen yet but will this summer.

[Gladys]

Much as I love Jane Austen, how can you top the monumental Wuthering Heights, with its transcendent insights?

[JuniperWoolf]

Just be glad Branwell isn't up there - he'd be faring even worse!

I actually forgot he existed until just now, then I remembered that he's the guy who painted himself out of this Bronte family portrait:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Painting_of_Bront%C3%AB_sisters.png

...and that's pretty much all anyone remembers about him. With a legacy like that, maybe he would be the first litnet poll option scoring in the negative.

[kelby_lake]

Which Bronte is whom? I'll guess. I reckon from left to right it's Emily (because she looks strong-willed), Charlotte (looks dignified) and Anne (because she looks a bit plain).

[JuniperWoolf]

No, Anne is the strong-willed one to the left (the only non-romantic). Emily is in the middle and Charlotte is on the right. That one was painted by their brother Branwell though, and it's not the greatest IMO (except Anne, who looks cool).

I like this portrait of Charlotte better, it's in one of my books except without color:

http://www.harpers.org/media/image/blogs/misc/424px-charlotte_bronte_coloured_drawing.png

And I like this portrait of Emily:

http://www.paulfrasercollectibles.com/upload/public/docimages/Image/j/l/q/Beautiful-Emily-Bronte-portrait-painting-410.jpg

And another defiant portrait of Anne, this time painted by her sister charlotte, makes me think that's just what her face looked like:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Anne_Bronte.jpg

[Lokasenna]

I think it is a measure of Branwell's artistic abilities that all three of his sisters look like they were hit with the ugly stick.

[Kafka's Crow]

I voted for Austen. I am reading Jane Eyre these days and am absolutely loving it. I never felt this way about Wuthering Heights, in fact I found the narrative voice annoying in Emily's book very annoying. Still it is got to be Austen for me. Her limitations and her positive use of those limitations, her humor, the sheer beauty of her prose have decided this one for me.

[Kafka's Crow]

I think it is a measure of Branwell's artistic abilities that all three of his sisters look like they were hit with the ugly stick.

Well, that's why we don't know much about the lad.

[kiki1982]

I think it is a measure of Branwell's artistic abilities that all three of his sisters look like they were hit with the ugly stick.

:lol: That's obviously why he did not make it as an artist...

Actually a lot is known about him, only not a lot is left, unlike from his sisters...

He wanted to make it as an artist and was considered to have some kind of gift, so his father sent him away to do an apprenticeship or something, at great cost. A bit later it was discovered that he drank all the money away and had done nothing with his time.

Then his father, sensible man, sent his only disgraced son away to a job with the railways, hoping no doubt he would clear up his act if he had a steady job... He was fired from it for fiddling the books. Admittedly, he did not steal any money himself, but as he was responsible for the man who did, he was blamed and therefore fired.

Then he got a job as tutor to the son(s?) of a rich gentleman, only to be fired in disgrace, it was rumoured because he had a fling with the lady of the house. Certainly to be fired on the spot and without reference... things must have been pretty bad for that to happen.

Then he returned home, got depressed, and drank himself to death, contracting delirium tremens (madness due to drink) on the way.

Apparently Charlotte was so 'plain and obscure' (to use her own words... ;))that Gaskell it was I think, was amazed that such writing could come from such a small creature... Although apparently her mind was very astute and she must have been very entertaining, because for her situation she received proposals of marriage like there was no tomorrow. One man she even swept away in one short afternoon. That is pretty impressive...

Although I think that Branwell's portrait, although a bit too ugly, is slightly more of a likeness than the paintings which make her much more beautiful than she was, judging from the one photo there is of her where she must have been a little over 30... The line of her profile is very similar to her portrait of Anne...

[JuniperWoolf]

Imagine being just an average, drunken loser and having your loser-ness immortalized and talked about for centuries because of your three uber talented siblings. That would suck.

[Lokasenna]

Imagine being just an average, drunken loser and having your loser-ness immortalized and talked about for centuries because of your three uber talented siblings. That would suck.

Not to mention being the only son and thus having all the opportunities and education given to you on a plate, and still being outshone by your three far-less-helped sisters.

[hawthorns]

:lol: That's obviously why he did not make it as an artist...

Actually a lot is known about him, only not a lot is left, unlike from his sisters...

He wanted to make it as an artist and was considered to have some kind of gift, so his father sent him away to do an apprenticeship or something, at great cost. A bit later it was discovered that he drank all the money away and had done nothing with his time.

Then his father, sensible man, sent his only disgraced son away to a job with the railways, hoping no doubt he would clear up his act if he had a steady job... He was fired from it for fiddling the books. Admittedly, he did not steal any money himself, but as he was responsible for the man who did, he was blamed and therefore fired.

Then he got a job as tutor to the son(s?) of a rich gentleman, only to be fired in disgrace, it was rumoured because he had a fling with the lady of the house. Certainly to be fired on the spot and without reference... things must have been pretty bad for that to happen.

Then he returned home, got depressed, and drank himself to death, contracting delirium tremens (madness due to drink) on the way.

Apparently Charlotte was so 'plain and obscure' (to use her own words... ;))that Gaskell it was I think, was amazed that such writing could come from such a small creature... Although apparently her mind was very astute and she must have been very entertaining, because for her situation she received proposals of marriage like there was no tomorrow. One man she even swept away in one short afternoon. That is pretty impressive...

Although I think that Branwell's portrait, although a bit too ugly, is slightly more of a likeness than the paintings which make her much more beautiful than she was, judging from the one photo there is of her where she must have been a little over 30... The line of her profile is very similar to her portrait of Anne...


There's an actual photo?

[kelby_lake]

Charlotte is so plain and dowdy! I should have known from reading Jane Eyre.

[OrphanPip]

Austen is my favourite out of this group by a large margin.

[Gladys]

Charlotte is so plain and dowdy! I should have known from reading Jane Eyre.

And Emily looks through you like a rapier! I know from reading Wuthering Heights.

[kiki1982]

There's an actual photo?

Yes, the only one from the family ever to have one. From 1854, I think. It's everywhere on the internet.
1854 is still very early days in photography, which explains why none of her siblings had one made. I don't think her father either, although he outlived her by at least ten years, I think.

Actually her brother's portait of her is more to the point, although the ugliness is driven a little too far, which is not to say that she was a beauty. You'll see what I mean when you see the photo... Although allowances have to be made for her having been malnourished in her childhood.

[JuniperWoolf]

http://www.mick-armitage.staff.shef.ac.uk/anne/charlott.jpg

Taa daa!

[kelby_lake]

http://www.mick-armitage.staff.shef.ac.uk/anne/charlott.jpg

Taa daa!

She looks about fifty!