September / Comic Novel Reading: A Confederacy of Dunces

[Scheherazade]

In September we will be reading A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole:
'When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him' - Jonathan Swift. A monument to sloth, rant and contempt, a behemoth of fat, flatulence and furious suspicion of anything modern - this is Ignatius J. Reilly of New Orleans, noble crusader against a world of dunces. In magnificent revolt against the twentieth century, Ignatius propels his monstrous bulk amongst the flesh-pots of a fallen city, documenting life on his Big Cief tablets as he goes - until his maroon-haired mother decrees that he must work. http://www.amazon.com/Confederacy-Dunces-Essential-Penguin/dp/0140282688/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251762881&sr=8-4

Please post your comments and questions in this thread.

[ktm5124]

Wonderful, wonderful. I read it a while ago in high school but I look forward to re-reading it. =)

[NickAdams]

My wife decided to read this last week so she has my only copy.:(

[Scheherazade]

My wife decided to read this last week so she has my only copy.:(Maybe she can join the Forum to discuss the book with us.

:D

I will start this one tonight hopefully.

[Dark Muse]

I have recently started reading this book, and so far, I am most intrigued and captivated by it. I have always had an off-beat sense of humur, and this book has many of the elements that are present within the comdies that I most tend to enjoy.

[Scheherazade]

Have read the first chapter and it is an excellent start! Enjoying the dialogues very much:
"You left your hat in the bar."

"Oh, I sold it to that young man."

"You sold it? Why? Did you ask me whether I wanted it to be sold? I was very attached to that hat."

"I'm sorry, Ignatius. I didn't know you liked it so much. You never said nothing about it."

"I had an unspoken attachment to it. It was a contact with my childhood, a link with the past."

"But he gave me fifteen dollars, Ignatius."

"Please. Don't talk about it anymore. The whole business is sacrilegious. Goodness knows what degenerate uses he will find for that hat. Do you have the fifteen dollars on you?"

"I still got seven left."

"Then why don't we stop and eat something?"Brilliant! :D "Unspoken attachment" really got me laughing out loud.

And Ignatius reminds me someone I used to know... I can imagine them being like this when they were younger! :eek:

[Dark Muse]

Ignatius is quite the character.

For some reason I just loved this:


Jones blew out a cumulus formation

So far I think Jones might be my favorite character, there is something I find rather appealing about him and his sunglasses.

[Dark Muse]

I was unfamialir with the term B-Girl, so I looked it up.

For anyone else who might have been currious, here is the definition I found:

a woman employed by a bar to act as a companion to men customers

A woman employed to talk to customers in a bar and encourage them to buy drinks

A Prostitute working out of a bar

[lugdunum]

I read part one last night and I'm finding the book really funny for now :lol:

My favorite part was when Ms. Reilly tries to get the car out of the parking place....: Big Ignatius sitting in the back of the car
slumped down in the seat so that just the top of his hunting cap appeared in the window, looking like the tip of a promising watermelonyelling at his mother
Are you sure that you're even turning the wheel the right way?

I also enjoyed the part with the hat :"Please. Don't talk about it anymore. The whole business is sacrilegious". Taking everything out of proportion seems to be one of Ignatius' traits.

The thing about these two characters is that you can't help feeling embarrassed for them.... making a fool of themselves in the bar and after so many hours sitting there not taking the hints of the bartender that they weren't welcome say
we know when we not wanted and the story about the bus ride to Baton Rouge (told four times by Ignatius whilst in the bar) goes to prove that their whole life is like that. Especially that of Ignatius because his mother looks a bit less "idiot" than her son and would probably be better off without him.

About the policemen.... what was sending patrolman Caruso on the streets wearing ballet tights and a yellow sweater about??!... Funny sight though ...:lol:!

Has this book been made into a movie? Because so far it certainly looks as though it could...

[Dark Muse]

Oh I loved Caruso and all of his funny costumes which he had to wear each day.

Reading this book though I personally cannot help but to think of South Park, Ignatius is like a grown up Cartman. Big fat kid who is always demanding attention and constantly whining about everything, not really understanding that no one acutally likes him, with his mother that is his constant inabler.

I absolutely love the scenes in the office of Levy Pants. Those are just hysterical.

[lugdunum]

I absolutely love the scenes in the office of Levy Pants. Those are just hysterical.

Can't wait to get to those :)

I read the beginning of part Two over lunch and had a good laughwhen I read the part when Ignatius writes on his "Big Chief Tablet" about his character Piers' fate:
And a vicious fate it was to be: now he was faced with the perversion of having to GO TO WORK(p30; Red Penguin)....

the perversion of having to go to work..... :lol:

[Dark Muse]

One thing I have noticed about this book is that it seems to be one of those that some people just love, and others absolutely hate. I have been looking through some reviews made of the book and I know one person said they felt that the book glorified whining.

A part of me feels that people of that opinion are in fact taking the book too seriously and perhaps missing the ironic humor behind it. I have read more than one complaint regarding Ignatius as the so called hero of the story, but as I read the book I cannot help but wonder is he truly the hero or is in fact the joke on him?

While I read, I find myself asking, is Ignatius really the genius who is having to contend with the dunces that seek to plot against him, or is it in fact that Ignatius himself is a dunce unable to see the truth for what it is?

[joebob]

i listened to the audiobook of this while back; goooood stuuuuuuff

[lugdunum]

While I read, I find myself asking, is Ignatius really the genius who is having to contend with the dunces that seek to plot against him, or is it in fact that Ignatius himself is a dunce unable to see the truth for what it is?

For now I feel that maybe the Confederacy of Dunces is what Ignatius feels that he is surrounded by.... Because he seems to be looking at the people around him condescendingly and constantly feels like he is the genious who will be discovered as soon as he finishes his book.... but then again I'm only at the beginning of the book so it might change later on...

[Dark Muse]

For now I feel that maybe the Confederacy of Dunces is what Ignatius feels that he is surrounded by.... Because he seems to be looking at the people around him condescendingly and constantly feels like he is the genious who will be discovered as soon as he finishes his book.... but then again I'm only at the beginning of the book so it might change later on...

Yes, that is what Ignatius feels, but I question, is that truly what the author intends? Are you meant to take Ignatius at face value in his belief in this? And view him as the true hero of the story?

Or is the author pulling the wool of Ignatius' eyes to to speak, and is the joke truly on him? Are we suppose to sympathize with his plight? Or laugh behind his back at his foolish notion of himself?

[lugdunum]

Or is the author pulling the wool of Ignatius' eyes to to speak, and is the joke truly on him? Are we suppose to sympathize with his plight? Or laugh behind his back at his foolish notion of himself?

For now I'd tend to laugh... What do you say?

[Dark Muse]

Yes, I cannot help but to feel there is some parody behind the so called "Confederacy of Dunces" and that Toole takes the idea satirically rather than literally.

[Dark Muse]

I just have to say I love Ignatius' new and improved filing system......throwing the files away everyday in the wastebasket, that cracked me up!

[Scheherazade]

I agree that we are not expected to feel sorry for Iggy; the book is a satirical work (bordering a farce at times) on many self-important people we come across every single day:
A thousand dollars? He will not get a cent. We shall have him prosecuted immediately. Contact out attorneys, Mother."Love the scene in which Iggy tries to sit on the little stool! :D

[AuntShecky]

This book has a terribly sad history of how it finally came to be published. It never would have been published if Toole's mother hadn't brought the ms to the attention of Walker Percy. (You could read about this on the web.)

I don't know what to make of this story because the book itself makes me believe that it is autobiographical and that Ignatius stands in for Toole himself. He is made fun of relentlessly, so I don't think that Toole took himself seriously.

It is wildly funny, slapsticky, full of one-liners worthy of Groucho. I thought the best aspect of the book was the quasi lady friend, the perpetual student from New York. She keeps sending Ignatius scathing letters, beginning with the salutation "Sirs" upbraiding him up and down for his habits and lack of social activism, as well as intimating that he is suffering from certain Freudian hang-ups. But she always signs them
impersonally-- "M. Minkoff."

The continuing manifesto that Ignatius writes is
quite funny, also; full of a quasi-religious, reactionary philosophy muddled with self-righteousness.

[Dark Muse]

I have quite surprised by the account that Ignatius gave of the factory and the workers within his journal of a working boy, and while it can be seen just how out of touch with reality he is, and some of his ideas and views are quite misguided, it seemed to be that he genuinely wished to do what was in the best interests of the factory workers (though his own ideas of what are in one's best interests might differ from what most would think)

Considering how self-involved he has proved himself to be and how much focus he puts upon his own sufferings and little concern he is in the habit of showing towards others, it was an almost likely moment for him in his express of his concerns for their low wages and working conditions and his efforts to try and present himself as likeable to them, as well his attempts to relate to them, however skewed those efforts may have been.

Though on can predict that whatever changes he tried to make to improve the factory will prove to be quite comical and speak further of his general incompetence, he actually does seem to have his heart in the right place for once.

[Scheherazade]

...he actually does seem to have his heart in the right place for once.I strongly disagree with this interpretation of his intentions. From the very start, he had very little sincere interest in the e workers' situation. He starts his campaign both to outdo his ex-girlfriend M (hence the insistence on filming the rebellion) and also to trick the workers into getting rid of Mr G, who has been getting on his nerves (sooner or later the fact that he has been throwing the files away will be discovered).

The first person narrative is always very tricky but we especially need to be careful with Iggy because he does have a way with words.

Does anyone else feel that Iggy is nothing but an overgrown child? His clothes (the hat and the loose trousers), the Mickey Mouse watch, his obsession with junk food, his revenges (throwing things at the cars)... It all reminds me of a boy of 10-11 (and he is not sexually active either). He lack maturity of a grown up.

Am I the only one who found the dog scene at the beginning disturbing?

[Dark Muse]

Yes I just finished reading the part, he did end up turning the whole thing to be about himself, which was not a surprise, and quite expectedly the whole thing ended up in quite a comical disaster.

I agree in his behavior he is just an overgrown child, as particularly seen when he did end up loosing his job and had to go back home, and his mother is insisting that he has to go back out and get work again.

Though I think he blew his chance with Levy Pants, I don't think he will find another place to work which would be so lenient with his slacking, as Levy himself did not even really care what went on in the company.

Oh yeah the dog incident was a bit strange to say the very least of it.

And OMG just thinking about his sheets made me shudder.

[Scheherazade]

All his writings and so-called projects remind me of a child's as well... A child with a very active imagination (a Walter Mitty character?). He signed his letter to his Prof as "Zorro"!

Love it that Miss Trixie keeps calling him "Gloria".:D

[Dark Muse]

A part of me was currious to find out what the response would be to the letter he wrote for Levy Pants I cannot remeber the person/company he sent the letter to, but it was about the pants that were too short.

I wonder if we ever well get to find out.

[Dark Muse]

I find it interesting how Mrs. Levy seems to be a mirror of Ignatius. She has the same child like manner about her, in the way in which she argues and talks to her husband lacks maturity, and they seem to have a very similar sort of personality.

She is equally as out of touch with reality, and yet has the same idea that she in fact knows truly what is better for everyone else, and makes rather misguided attempts to help others that ultimately are truly more about her than those whom she claims to try to be helping.

Though we never see her out of her house, she is always trying to tell her husband how he should run his business and what to do about his employees, while her interest in his business seems to be purely materialistic and she seems concerned only for her own personal status.

As Ignatius all she really does it sit around the house and complain, and just like his mother, Mr. Levy seems to more or less indulge and unable his wife, but giving in to her in the head, or simply just ignoring her, letting her have her way. I do find the scenes between the two of them quite comical.

On another note, after having just read the hot dog incident, I am curious, do you think that Ignatius is one of those who comes to believe his own lies? And convinces himself that his version of the truth, is indeed what actually happened?

[Dark Muse]

I wonder about the need Ignatius seems to have for exposing himself to the very things which seem to give him the most irritation. The fact that he always goes to the movies only to complain about them, and the scene in which he was watching some dance show I think it was, only to be offended by it, and his continued correspondence with Myrna.

Does he actually gain some form of pleasure from being in a constant state of agitation, does putting himself in positions in which he feels "put upon" or wronged in someway actually make him feel "heroic" does he just feed upon that negative attention.

It seems he is a person who is incapable of ever truly being content, because making himself discontent is the only thing that satisfies him.

[AuntShecky]

Does he actually gain some form of pleasure from being in a constant state of agitation, does putting himself in positions in which he feels "put upon" or wronged in someway actually make him feel "heroic" does he just feed upon that negative attention.

I think you're on to something here, not merely with the specific character of Ignatius, but as an aspect of the American collective psyche: that we don't fully feel alive until we're "riled up." Nothing gets our attention as much as making our boil boil.

Hence, the appeal(?) for so-called "reality" shows on television in which viewers tune in just to watch people make fools of themselves over contestants whom "they love to hate." Schadenfreude may be America's guilty pleasure. And such active outrage is precisely what the Media feeds off: all the coverage about notorious criminals, scandals, celebrities behaving badly. (If not that, then it's fear-mongering: unemployment, the health care system and ways to fix it, swine flu, etc.) Everytime I turn on the idiot box it's as if it's asking me: "Aren't you mad?" or "Are we scared yet?"

[lugdunum]

I totally agree with you about the fact that I. is an overgrown child, I would even say an overgrown brat.... The way he locks himself up in his room and won't let his mother in... and when he punctures Caruso's tires or throws an ink bottle at his car...

About his work at the factory, it's clear that it's only about himself and putting himself forward. He constantly thinks that he is way above everybody else... the supposedly"revolutionary" filing system, the "good" way of dealing with complaints from customers, how to speak to factory workers... and then it turns out that he doesn't have a clue... (though the little dance he performed in the factory was really funny :lol::lol:).

I really liked Ms. Trixie.... she made me laugh a few times, particularly as someone said, when she keeps calling him "Gloria" and then when she kneels under the cross.... and also when I. tries to sit on the little stool and falls over and she tries to lift him up and ends up falling on the floor herself and falls asleep....

It seems to me that I. keeps starting new projects which he thinks he will succesfully complete and will be praised for but at the end of the day he's just not good at anything (except maybe with words). To me this guy is a complete failure and yet he's so full of himself.... I must admit that he kinda pisses me off most of the time... And OMG, just picturing him sitting in his room with his night shirt and his donuts or whatever he's eating, his pencil in his ear.. it just grosses me out sooo much...:sick::lol: And yet at times I find him funny and almost likeable.... I don't know it's kind of confusing....

I'll keep on reading because I think I'm way behind you guys... Funny book though... I'm having a really good time... Are you?

[Dark Muse]

I think you're on to something here, not merely with the specific character of Ignatius, but as an aspect of the American collective psyche: that we don't fully feel alive until we're "riled up." Nothing gets our attention as much as making our boil boil.

You make a very good point. I do think that Toole is making a statement in regards to American culture and society in general, as All of the characters within the book can be seen about complaining about something and acting put upon, or offended, in someway. Yet they are all in situations which they put themselves in, and remain inactive in doing anything to change it. They all seem to glory in their own suffering by one way or another.

While it is easy to feel sorry for Iggy's mother, he is in his 30's, she could just as well kick him out of the house and stop supporting him, instead of having to constantly put up with him, and the way in which when she is out with her friends, she just seems to look for trouble for herself in only talking about the woe's of her son, and than not really wanting to meet "the old man" but always trying to find some flaw, or something wrong.

And the character of Jones' constantly complaining about his job while he still works there, though her claims that he has no choice because he is afraid of being arrested as a vagrant, but it seems he would be able to try and find another means of work and in the long wrong it doesn't seem like he has it that bad at the bar really.

And then the situation between Mrs. Levy and Mr. Levy.

The book is filled with characters that seem to subject themselves to problems that they do have within their power to avoid or try to correct, but they all seem to feed in someway from their misery and discontent.

[Scheherazade]

I am not sure if Iggy really dislikes all those things he keeps complaining about. I think he actually likes watching all those movies and TV programmes but, like many "intellectuals" out there, he just cannot bring himself to admit that he actually enjoys what "common" people enjoy...

Regarding complaining... I think they all suffer from the ailment of the modern society. Everyone is so willing to be a victim; they are mistreated; their lives are not fair; it is always someone else's fault and they are the unluckiest, poorest creatures ever breathed on this earth... All this could have been acceptable if they were willing to take a step to turn things around for themselves.

Been an interesting, fun reading. :D

[Dark Muse]

I wonder, what do you think Toole is trying to suggest by sitting this cast of characters who all more or less victimize themselves, and struggle through their rather petty complaints of which they subject themselves to, against the backdrop of the civil rights movement?

Throughout the story there are several allusions made to the civil rights movement and in a way it is almost used as a sort of mockery of the disengagement complaints of the characters within the story, who take themselves more seriously than they really should.

And Myrna is made as some sort of parody of a young feminist liberal, in casting her in a very stereotypical sort of way.

[caspian]

I must admit that he kinda pisses me off most of the time... And OMG, just picturing him sitting in his room with his night shirt and his donuts or whatever he's eating, his pencil in his ear.. it just grosses me out sooo much...:sick::lol: And yet at times I find him funny and almost likeable.... I don't know it's kind of confusing....

I feel same way about Ignatius.. There was a moment I almost quit reading -when his religious ecstasy took a sudden turn (I part of Chapter II). It took me whole day to get over the disgust. Now I'm a little careful - I avoid reading parts with Ig. before or after eating. :lol:
he's one big PARASITE -he's never wrong-and has always ready answer to every blame. I think I know him well now. I knew that he had no money to pay for hot dogs, and he would not sell any of them. Actually I'm surprised that he finally made $4. I thought he would repeat first day all the time while having that job. Another surprising side of him- Looks like he loves animals. Isn't that interesting?

This book is going to be one of my favorites. So much respect and admiration for the writer! Big, big Thanks -the one who nominated it and the ones who voted for it.


I think you're on to something here, not merely with the specific character of Ignatius, but as an aspect of the American collective psyche: that we don't fully feel alive until we're "riled up." Nothing gets our attention as much as making our boil boil.

Hence, the appeal(?) for so-called "reality" shows on television in which viewers tune in just to watch people make fools of themselves over contestants whom "they love to hate." Schadenfreude may be America's guilty pleasure. And such active outrage is precisely what the Media feeds off: all the coverage about notorious criminals, scandals, celebrities behaving badly. (If not that, then it's fear-mongering: unemployment, the health care system and ways to fix it, swine flu, etc.) Everytime I turn on the idiot box it's as if it's asking me: "Aren't you mad?" or "Are we scared yet?"

:lol: Good point

[Scheherazade]

I wonder, what do you think Toole is trying to suggest by sitting this cast of characters who all more or less victimize themselves, and struggle through their rather petty complaints of which they subject themselves to, against the backdrop of the civil rights movement?

Throughout the story there are several allusions made to the civil rights movement and in a way it is almost used as a sort of mockery of the disengagement complaints of the characters within the story, who take themselves more seriously than they really should. I don't think Toole is trying to mock the Civil Rights movements but how they were used as a tool or an excuse by certain types/groups of people to advance their own selfish agendas (as in the case of Iggy at the factory or with the gay clique). Almost all of the characters in the book are so self-obsessed that they are unable to see beyond their own trivial, selfish needs. They, willingly or unwillingly, ignore what is really important. The Police, the academic, the so-called intellectual, rich, poor... There are examples from all walks of life.

I don't think Toole is saying everyone is like that but he is just aiming to make fun of those who are, I believe.

Having said that, when you look around, you see that everyone is a victim! People are very unwilling to take responsibilty of their own fate and situation. Everyone wants to be happy but they want other people/things to make them happy. Everyone is unhappy because someone else makes them so or because they don't have this or that. (Check out the "Happiness" thread in our Forum :))
And Myrna is made as some sort of parody of a young feminist liberal, in casting her in a very stereotypical sort of way.Myrna is probably the parody of the liberal feminist of the times the book was written. Her interest and speech topic! Like there is nothing else to be taken care of... :D
Another surprising side of him- Looks like he loves animals. Isn't that interesting? Are you refering to the dog here? If so, I am not sure I like the fact that he "loves" animals! :p

OK, here is a question. At the end of the book, Iggy's interest in Myrna's hair... I find it a little icky because I cannot help thinking there is connection with the long hair and the dog. Does anyone get the same feeling?
Big, big Thanks -the one who nominated it and the ones who voted for it.I think it was Bouquin who nominated it :)

[Dark Muse]

:DAre you refering to the dog here? If so, I am not sure I like the fact that he "loves" animals! :p.

Hehe, I think it was a reference to the stray cat, which he wanted to try and take home, and then after he got reported for touching the cat while working, he in a way tried to defend the cats honor as it were.

At first his seeming love for animals does seem to be a bit of a curiosity considering how self-absorbed he is, and how it seems he takes offence at just about everything else.

But in social outcasts, and those that are repelled by human companionship it is common to find a bound with animals. For one thing because animals generally lack most of the annoying human traits that drives people out of human society, and because of their pure, unconditional non-judgmental loyalty and love.

In Iggy's case, animals won't contradict him, or harass him about staying in his room, or about what he is doing, and criticize his writing, and watching TV or judge him for his eating and how long he stays in the bath...etc.... He could have complete authority over an animal.

[Scheherazade]

I thought Iggy's interest in the cat was like his interest in trumpet and lute... Obvious that he won't carry on... Just another temporary whim... another sign of his immaturity.

[Dark Muse]

I have to say, I was quite surprised with Iggy actually sticking behind the hot dog vendor job and wondered what drove him to do it. While his integrity as a vendor leaves much to be desired being that he eats more hot dogs than he sells, it still struck me that he presciently showed up for the gig everyday as it seems to be the last thing something like Iggy would indeed commit himself to doing.

Is it some boyish fear of his mother's complaining, and the fact that he could not bare the thought of having to go out job hunting even more which caused him to stick with the vending job?

Or underneath all of his complaints is there something within him that actually enjoys the work? Even in perhaps some perverse sort of way? The fact that it makes him feel like a martyr of sorts.

[Sancho]

I gotta tell ya, I read this book shortly after it was published, when I was quite young, and I loved it back then. Now, I’m finding it a little too campy. I’m not even sure I’ll finish it, which is a shame because I was looking forward to rereading it.

[lugdunum]

I'm dragging behind... I've just finished reading the first day of Ignatius as a hot dog vendor... The more I read the more he p* me off.... Oh and this thing with his valve is becoming more and more of an obsession don't you think???... I wish he'd get over that already... but then again I guess this is exactly what this character is about... self centered and self obsessed.

I miss Ms. Trixie... Does she come back in the story?... *fingers crossed* ;)

[Dark Muse]

Yes, she does re-enter the story after Iggy starts working as a vendor

[Scheherazade]

"Gloria!"

:D

[Dark Muse]

Hehe

I love Santa, she cracks me

[Scheherazade]

I was expecting her to elope with the old guy, to be honest. Surprisingly, she turned out to be genuine in her match-making efforts.

(If this were an Austen book, she would have though :D)

[Dark Muse]

I never really thought that, I always felt that her match-making efforts were genuine. In a way she is one of the most likable characters in the book, because she seems to be truly the only one who actually does do things for herself, and doesn't just sit around and complain about her problems.

Though I still am quite fascinated by Jones and his clouds of smoke.

[Sancho]

I like his use of the reflexive in the dialog, which is sort of a Cajun-ism you hear sometimes from natives of New Orleans. “Myself, I go down der to de Café Du Monde for dem beignets an some a dat cafe au lait.” Something like that. It’s a little more widespread over in Lafayette.
Anyway, what do you guys think of his phonetic spelling inside the quotation marks. Could he have developed Jones without it? I think modern African-Americans readers may choke on the cartoonish portrayal of Jones.

[Dark Muse]

I like his use of the reflexive in the dialog, which is sort of a Cajun-ism you hear sometimes from natives of New Orleans. “Myself, I go down der to de Café Du Monde for dem beignets an some a dat cafe au lait.” Something like that. It’s a little more widespread over in Lafayette.

I rather liked the dilect within the story, it added a certain flavor to it for me, and it did make it more interesting and humurous.


I think modern African-Americans readers may choke on the cartoonish portrayal of Jones.

I agree that is probably true, but if they had any common sense, they could see that all of the characters are a parody and cartoonish. I mean just look at Iggy and Myrna

[Sancho]

Do you think he could’ve gotten the same effect with syntax only and skipped the spelling?

[Dark Muse]

No, I do not think it would have been quite the same effect. The story would have still worked, and I don't think that Jones is quite completely dependent upon it, but still it adds a touch or realism and brings Jones a bit more to life off the page. At least that is how I see it.

And I don't believe Toole had any racial malice in his doing so, as he pants everyone in the story with an equal brush if you ask me. I think he was just being an observer of society and American culture, and than making it into an intentional parody of itself.

[Sancho]

agreed

I’ve gotta admit the cloud formations crack me up, thunderclouds, cumulonimbus, stratus, cirrus; it just keeps going. I’m waiting for a mushroom cloud.

[Dark Muse]

I abolsutely LOVED the cloud fomations.

I am not quite done with the book yet, but as I am getting near the end, one thing that I really enjoy is the way in which Toole is making all these connections between the varrious characters and little differnet plots, and how one thing leads to another which is brining everything sort of together.

[Sancho]

I’m glad you mentioned that. I was just admiring the way Toole weaved the story (or stories).

I bogged down on this book in the middle, but this thread and Myrna’s letter re-energized me. Although published in 1980, I think the book was written the 60s, making Myrna’s political musings all that more prophetic. I’m talking about her trying to incite Ignatius to act on his theories and start the Divine Right Party, which would syphon fascist elements from other political parties and give the country a much needed three party system. I was howling by the end of her letter.

Anyhow, I’m still behind the rest of you but I plan to catch up tonight. My biggest problem now is a mechanical one: my book is sort of old and held together by a rubberband so I have to sit a desk to read it. On the bus ain’t an option.

[Sancho]

Viola, finished.

Things just aren’t going to work out for Myrna, are they: one lost cause after another.

Anyway I’m glad I stuck with it to the end. It was well worth it, if only to read the comic sketch about the kickoff rally and the interaction between the bull-dykes and the nancy-boys. What a hoot.

Does anyone think you can (or should) read this book as a stand-alone text. I mean, without knowing anything about the author or how he ended his life?

[Dark Muse]

Does anyone think you can (or should) read this book as a stand-alone text. I mean, without knowing anything about the author or how he ended his life?

Considering that is what I did, I would definately say you can. I know nothing about Toole or his life, but I thorughly enjoyed reading this book, and do not feel my ignorance on the authors life has negatively impacted my reading of the book.

Personaly if a book cannot be read as a stand alone text I do not think it truly makes a very good book, a reader should not have to be a shcolar upon authors biography to be able to read and understand thier works.


OK, here is a question. At the end of the book, Iggy's interest in Myrna's hair... I find it a little icky because I cannot help thinking there is connection with the long hair and the dog. Does anyone get the same feeling?I think it was Bouquin who nominated it :)

I did not feel like her hair was connected to the dog really, and though the dog scene was strange to say the least, perhaps you are trying to make too much of it.

Though I did find that scene at the end to be a bit odd, it felt almost out of character for Iggy to me. Though he was desperate to escape from the Charity House, it is hard for me to believe that in that moment he would commit such a complete 180 of his personality. Though in the future I do not know if there is much genuine hope of Iggy truly making any sort of change for the better, I had a little trouble completely buying the ending of the book.

But perhaps his long going antitheses with her through their letters back and forth was really just Iggy's way of having something of a connection with her, and at the root of it, maybe he truly did like her all along, but he is just too socially inept to be able to expresses his feelings in any other way but the negative.

[Sancho]

Personaly if a book cannot be read as a stand alone text I do not think it truly makes a very good book, a reader should not have to be a shcolar upon authors biography to be able to read and understand thier works.

By and large, I agree. In fact I'd probably enjoy Hemingway more not knowing that he could be quite a tool in his private life. Charles Dickens was notoriously prickly towards criticism and that knowledge doesn't detract from my enjoyment of Tale of Two Cities. But this book may be an exception to the rule.

I don’t know a lot about the author either, except what was written in the forward by Walker Percy. He gives the story of how the book came to be published. The other thing that jumps out is the copy write: 1980 by Thelma Toole. I, and others on this forum, have wondered how much of the novel autobiographical. So with this book, it seems to me, the whole story behind the book has become part of the book.

Here’s a thought I had after setting the book aside and thinking about it for a couple of days. And it sort of goes along with knowing a little about the author – sort of but not really.

To enhance the experience of the book, I think it helps to know a little about New Orleans: its topography, geography, climatology, sociology, and its history. If the United States is a melting pot, then New Orleans is dat gumbo what goes in da pot.

The characters in the book represent a nice cross-section of greater the New Orleans population. The history of the place, to a certain extent, is written in their last names:
Reilly, Mancuso, Jones, Lee, Levy, Robichaux. The Acadian (Cajun) name runs a close third in prevalence down there to Boudreaux and Thibodeaux. Also, I don’t think it was an accident that the only Anglican name was given to an African-American.

I enjoy reading about places I’m familiar with. It gives me a frame of reference. I can put a place with a name when he talks about the Algiers ferry dock, the Quarter, St Charles Street, the Causeway Bridge, or even Slidell. Also it helps to know the dubious history of the state penitentiary at Angola.

Anyway, it was just a thought.

[Dark Muse]

I have always had a certain fascination with New Orleans, and I rather enjoyed myself the fact that the book was set within New Orleans, and reading about Ig's experiences on the French Quarter and the references to Mardi Gras.

[Sancho]

I’ve never had a bad time in NOLA but I haven’t been there since Katrina.

Here’s something kind of spooky (if you believe Wiki). Hollywood has had several aborted attempts to make a movie of Confederacy of Dunces, but the leading character keeps dying. So far they’ve cast John Belushi, John Candy, and Chris Farley.

Anyhow, Muse, looks like you and I are the only two hep-cats still chatting about this book so I guess it’s time for me to go down to my local book-monger and find something new to read. Any suggestions?

[Dark Muse]

That is eerie if it s indeed true.

Haha well other then Confederacy of Dunces, I am not sure what sort of books you might be inclined to like and my own reading tastes are very ecclectic so I am not sure where to begin with trying to reccomend anything.

[Sancho]

Ha!

Thanks, I'll find something. Browsing the stacks just may be my favorite part.

Cheers

[Scheherazade]

Ha!

Thanks, I'll find something. Browsing the stacks just may be my favorite part.

CheersMaybe you would consider taking part in our next reading? ;)


I have just read a quick read of Toole's biographie on Wiki and I am not sure if his work is exactly autobiographical (even though there might some similarities especially the mother).

And I have very little knowledge of New Orleans area but it didn't stop me from enjoying the book (true that I might have enjoyed it more had I been familiar).

[Sancho]

Hey thanks, Sher.

It sounds like fun. Sadly though, I’ve never been too reliable where making commitments are concerned.

[bouquin]

I read part one last night and I'm finding the book really funny for now :lol:

My favorite part was when Ms. Reilly tries to get the car out of the parking place....: Big Ignatius sitting in the back of the car yelling at his mother

I also enjoyed the part with the hat :"Please. Don't talk about it anymore. The whole business is sacrilegious". Taking everything out of proportion seems to be one of Ignatius' traits.

The thing about these two characters is that you can't help feeling embarrassed for them.... making a fool of themselves in the bar and after so many hours sitting there not taking the hints of the bartender that they weren't welcome say and the story about the bus ride to Baton Rouge (told four times by Ignatius whilst in the bar) goes to prove that their whole life is like that. Especially that of Ignatius because his mother looks a bit less "idiot" than her son and would probably be better off without him.

About the policemen.... what was sending patrolman Caruso on the streets wearing ballet tights and a yellow sweater about??!... Funny sight though ...:lol:!

Has this book been made into a movie? Because so far it certainly looks as though it could...






I am about halfway done with the book and the most comical part for me so far is in Chapter 8 (spoiler warning!)...... when Mrs. Reilly and Mr. Robichaux meet at Santa's house and Angelo is in the kitchen somewhere about to come out anytime. The scene is quite something and the dialogue, too!

If a movie were to be made of Confederacy who would you think could be aptly cast in the role of Ignatius?

[Scheherazade]

Sadly though, I’ve never been too reliable where making commitments are concerned.And what does Missus say to that?

:D


I am about halfway done with the book and the most comical part for me so far is in Chapter 8 (spoiler warning!)...... when Mrs. Reilly and Mr. Robichaux meet at Santa's house and Angelo is in the kitchen somewhere about to come out anytime. The scene is quite something and the dialogue, too! There are so many memorable, hillarious scenes! Like when mother sells her hat and Iggy claims emotional injury because of his attachment to the hat... or when he says he will call their lawyers.
If a movie were to be made of Confederacy who would you think could be aptly cast in the role of Ignatius?How about Philip Seymour Hoffman or Oliver Platt?

[bouquin]

(spoiler warning....)

Another comical scene for me is in Chapter 9 when Darlene rehearses as a Southern belle and starts mixing up ball, balls, beau, bones!

[Sancho]

And what does Missus say to that?

Me and the little lady have a understanding, see.

Hey, I’m starting to sound like Stanley Kowalski now.

Which, of course, moves us to the stage but keeps us in New Orleans. I noticed in Toole’s book, he talked about the Desire Street Bus, perhaps he’s updating or at least tilting his hat towards A Streetcar Named Desire.

[Scheherazade]

Which, of course, moves us to the stage but keeps us in New Orleans. I noticed in Toole’s book, he talked about the Desire Street Bus, perhaps he’s updating or at least tilting his hat towards A Streetcar Named Desire.From http://knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/New_Orleans/


There are two active streetcar lines, the Riverfront line (also known as the Ladies in Red since the cars are painted red) which runs parallel to the river from Canal Street through the French Quarter, and the St. Charles line (green cars, formerly connecting New Orleans with the then independent suburb of Carrollton). The city is also the scene of the Tennessee Williams play "A Streetcar Named Desire." The streetcar line to Desire Street became a bus line in 1948, but will be restored as a light rail line.

[bouquin]

I am not sure if Iggy really dislikes all those things he keeps complaining about. I think he actually likes watching all those movies and TV programmes but, like many "intellectuals" out there, he just cannot bring himself to admit that he actually enjoys what "common" people enjoy...

Regarding complaining... I think they all suffer from the ailment of the modern society. Everyone is so willing to be a victim; they are mistreated; their lives are not fair; it is always someone else's fault and they are the unluckiest, poorest creatures ever breathed on this earth... All this could have been acceptable if they were willing to take a step to turn things around for themselves.

Been an interesting, fun reading. :D


I agree that Ignatius actually likes watching movies, perhaps the more slapstick the better even. It is just that he is trying to pass for an intellectual, he is pretentious and considers himself to have more discriminating taste than everybody else so on the outside he disparages the very same films that he is, in fact, always itching to go watch. He does admit to having a favorite actress though; nevertheless, he says that she commits only blasphemy, vulgarity, horrors, etc. on the scene.

In a Journal entry (Chapter 11) Ignatius writes: I do not understand this compulsion of mine for seeing movies; it almost seems as if movies are "in my blood."
Perhaps that among his other affectations he also thinks that he would make an exceptional actor?

[balehead]

I'm kinda a newbie here; just wondering if I can tag on to this book and if you've all finished it?
How does the club really work? And when are you discussing this particular one?
- What is being read next?

[Scheherazade]

The discussions are on-going so you can read and join anytime you want.

For the next book, please visit here: http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46028

[quote=bouquin]He does admit to having a favorite actress though; nevertheless, he says that she commits only blasphemy, vulgarity, horrors, etc. on the scene.[/quotte]I think when he says he tries to sound "sarcastic", implying that the actress is vulgar, lacking etc but in reality he has a crush on her, I think.

[bouquin]

Yes, that is what Ignatius feels, but I question, is that truly what the author intends? Are you meant to take Ignatius at face value in his belief in this? And view him as the true hero of the story?

Or is the author pulling the wool of Ignatius' eyes to to speak, and is the joke truly on him? Are we suppose to sympathize with his plight? Or laugh behind his back at his foolish notion of himself?


I think Ignatius is a pathetic creature. Mrs Reilly aptly sums it up: "You ain't only crazy, Ignatius. You mean, too. ... You learnt everything, ... except how to be a human being." (chapter 13.xiii)

[Zosimov'sCorpse]

Hello everyone. I've been lurking for quite some time and have decided to register. This site has been extremely helpful as a guidepost as to what to read and in attempting to decipher it after wards.

I just finished this book late last night. I thought it was excellent. I thought Toole made the characters and their dialogue very believable, which considering how eccentric they were, was no small feat.

I was surprised how throughout the book the wide variations of emotions I had towards Ignatius. (Disgust and anger, to pity and eventually a tad of empathy) Toole did a wonderful job of making him a character that I will not forget.

[bouquin]

I agree that we are not expected to feel sorry for Iggy; the book is a satirical work (bordering a farce at times) on many self-important people we come across every single day:Love the scene in which Iggy tries to sit on the little stool! :D


Characters like Ignatius would most probably be aggrieved if we felt pity for them. What they would rather want and expect would be admiration, applause, veneration.

[caspian]

My heart went for this part, it's silly so:
"The door opened slowly. ignatius stuck his fat gray face into the hall. his mother's eyes watered when she saw the bandage."


If a movie were to be made of Confederacy who would you think could be aptly cast in the role of Ignatius?

how about Will Ferrel in a fat suit? it's not my choice, but after all you might see him as Ignatius. Movie was planned to be released in 2007, but it didn't happen. Currently Paramount owns the rights to the book, for now is just not interested in this project. Here's the rest of the cast: Lily Tomlin, Drew Barrymore, Mos Def, Olympia Dukakis.
just check this link
http://www.slate.com/id/2155500
I'd rather wait 10 more years than watch annoying WF.



OK, here is a question. At the end of the book, Iggy's interest in Myrna's hair... I find it a little icky because I cannot help thinking there is connection with the long hair and the dog. Does anyone get the same feeling?

There our friend's hypocrisy reached all highs . One minute he's about to strangle her with that pigtail, next minute he gives it wet moustache bath.

honestly that dog story remains mystery to me. All I know (and trying to forget) that it was part of Ig..'s strange "m" fantasy. If I didn't miss anything, we actually never heard about the dog from Ignatius himself. And there's Miss Annie's story and her remark that "Idnatius" was ok until the dog died.



I was surprised how throughout the book the wide variations of emotions I had towards Ignatius. (Disgust and anger, to pity and eventually a tad of empathy) Toole did a wonderful job of making him a character that I will not forget.
:nod: I can't agree more
and welcome to the Book Club:)




I think it was Bouquin who nominated it :)

Thank you again, guys! you can't imagine how much fun I had, how much I liked the book!

Sher, I have 3 more thanks to send :nod::)- Right now I'm reading "Scoop". "Lucky Jim", "Three men in a boat" are in my waiting list. I'm having wonderful reading time.:banana:

[Gladys]

Early in the week I learned that Australia's most colourful Lit. academic, Bob Ellis, places this novel on top of his recommendations for contemporary reading: Toole's Ignatius J. Reilly does for New Orleans what Joyce's Leopold Bloom does for Dublin.

I gather from activity on this thread that I have missed much. :rage:

[bouquin]

I have to say, I was quite surprised with Iggy actually sticking behind the hot dog vendor job and wondered what drove him to do it. While his integrity as a vendor leaves much to be desired being that he eats more hot dogs than he sells, it still struck me that he presciently showed up for the gig everyday as it seems to be the last thing something like Iggy would indeed commit himself to doing.

Is it some boyish fear of his mother's complaining, and the fact that he could not bare the thought of having to go out job hunting even more which caused him to stick with the vending job?

Or underneath all of his complaints is there something within him that actually enjoys the work? Even in perhaps some perverse sort of way? The fact that it makes him feel like a martyr of sorts.



I think Ignatius stuck to the Paradise job because he loved those hotdogs!

[Dark Muse]

Haha, yes perhaps so

[bouquin]

All his writings and so-called projects remind me of a child's as well... A child with a very active imagination (a Walter Mitty character?). He signed his letter to his Prof as "Zorro"!

Love it that Miss Trixie keeps calling him "Gloria".:D


I'm thinking that maybe there's something symbolic about the name Gloria. Ignatius covets praise and recognition, i.e., glory; then we find him being called Gloria by mistake and by somebody who is no longer is full possession of her intellectual capacities. It's as if to associate Ignatius with glory would be an inaccuracy, an aberration.

[Scheherazade]

I'm thinking that maybe there's something symbolic about the name Gloria. Ignatius covets praise and recognition, i.e., glory; then we find him being called Gloria by mistake and by somebody who is no longer is full possession of her intellectual capacities. It's as if to associate Ignatius with glory would be an inaccuracy, an aberration.That is a valid interpretation, I think.

Hadn't thought about it.

[bouquin]

I like his use of the reflexive in the dialog, which is sort of a Cajun-ism you hear sometimes from natives of New Orleans. “Myself, I go down der to de Café Du Monde for dem beignets an some a dat cafe au lait.” Something like that. It’s a little more widespread over in Lafayette.
Anyway, what do you guys think of his phonetic spelling inside the quotation marks. Could he have developed Jones without it? I think modern African-Americans readers may choke on the cartoonish portrayal of Jones.


Jones is my favorite character.

[Sancho]

I thought Jones was a bit flat in the book, but Mos Def could definitely round out that character in a movie. In fact, he’d probably steal the show, fo’ shizzle! How about Seth Rogen as Ignatius?

[bouquin]

I feel same way about Ignatius.. There was a moment I almost quit reading -when his religious ecstasy took a sudden turn (I part of Chapter II). It took me whole day to get over the disgust. Now I'm a little careful - I avoid reading parts with Ig. before or after eating. :lol:
he's one big PARASITE -he's never wrong-and has always ready answer to every blame. I think I know him well now. I knew that he had no money to pay for hot dogs, and he would not sell any of them. Actually I'm surprised that he finally made $4. I thought he would repeat first day all the time while having that job. Another surprising side of him- Looks like he loves animals. Isn't that interesting?

This book is going to be one of my favorites. So much respect and admiration for the writer! Big, big Thanks -the one who nominated it and the ones who voted for it.



:lol: Good point



My pleasure! I nominated this book and I'm happy it got selected. We've had a good discussion on it.

[mal4mac]

When the books were being nominated someone wondered if the British contingent would like "Dunces". I certainly did! It's very Pythonesque - all those silly costumes and extreme cartoonish characters. Even a parrot! Though very live... I was worried the book might not live up to my image of New Orleans - a fun, party town full of zanies. But no worries. It only added some new images. I wonder if the Levy Pants scenes were an inspiration for the Office?

So, all in all, it was a very funny book. I was slightly disappinted by the complete lack of depth. Given that Ig was a devotee of Boethius I was looking for some indication of how medieval philosophy impacted on his life. This turned out to be like looking for a summary of Western philosophy in the Python "footballing philosophers" sketch. So don't expect any deep insights into the human condition. But it was very funny.

[Scheherazade]

Given that Ig was a devotee of Boethius I was looking for some indication of how medieval philosophy impacted on his life.I think that was the point... that it did not have any impact on his life or life philosophies. All his learning and studies are for the sake of exam papers and such and whatever is supposed to be learnt by them does not actually register with him.

What's worse, he uses his knowledge against others, to humiliate or take advantage of them.

[lugdunum]

I also had a great time with the book. Espcially towards the end. Like Zosimov'sCorpse said, the range of feelings I've felt towards I. is huge.... First he grossed me out, then I hated him .... and then at one point I almost took pity on him...

I also agree with you Scheherazade that all his studies were completely useless except to help him show off his knowledge and condescend. He sees himself like a misunderstood genius and yet he's so dumb and easy to fool and manipulate. Even Jones who, in appearance is not the brightest, manages to trick him....

About this book being made into a movie it has actually been considered. Apparently W. Ferrell was going to play Ignatius. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Confederacy_of_Dunces). Yet as someone said, I could totally see Philip Seymour Hoffman in the role.... Or maybe Jack Black....

Good choice Bouquin :)