Does God live in heavenn literally?

[blazeofglory]

In many books of theologies it is written that God dwells in heaven. There is a perfect description of god in heaven and deities surrounding God.

Heaven is in a high place and somewhere above the sky and it is elaborately described in many books of religions that man ascends to heaven if he is holy or virtuous and if he is a sinner he has to suffer the fire of hell.

Today the idea of heaven is not literal and it is just symbolical. And it is not a place but an idea or concept.'

God is generally not taken as a mythological figure; the one who is at a height attended by deities, and luxuriate there with many archangels.

Illiterate people some primitive societies still hold this idea of God living luxuries in heaven with fairies. But today we in this world of reason, science, technology, knowledge and communication cannot subscribe to this idea of god.

We seek logical answers. Today even a child with his logical bent of mind can raise thousands of questions with regard to the existence of God. And hardly can we satisfy them with our answers.

God is taken today differently than what is described in the Bible or Koran or in any other scriptures.

God is said as a source of consciousness and that that consciousness is likened to the consciousness we live with is a question no one can answer.

Today there are so many people who had seated themselves at heights, and through their guesses about God and those guesses to o are founded on what they had read in different scriptures or they have learned from their parents and their parents from their parents.

I invite people here to share their ideas about the dwellings of God.

[NikolaiI]

My own view of God... heaven exists, but only as a part of God. But God doesn't exist somewhere a distance away from us, though it seems like that at first.

I understand God to exist within us. Of course everything exists within God, but then God, the source, exists within the heart of every living entity.

As for heaven, it exists, it is around God, and numerless angels or demigods also; but it's not a physical place so much. It certainly exists, but it is not physical - but we exist also spiritually, and not just physically.

[Judas130]

Well, heaven may be a place where God dwells, but heaven is understood to be, first and foremost, an afterlife. In Christianity, you hear the priest when he reads his scripture, mentioning the 'Kingdom of God' - and this is commonly misunderstood as heaven. The Kingdom of God is within you, it is the ability to let your faith flourish and allow the understanding of a God into your life: because God's kingdom is not on an external plane, but rather it is apparent within the minds of each believer - for example, "We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come." (Nicene Creed)

My idea:

There is not a physical heaven where God resides and where we can also depart, due to the evidences of Saṃsāra. Instead, Heaven is of spiritual cognition where closeness to God is in fact heaven, via the Kingdom of God:

"Therefore, we learn that nearness to God is possible through devotion to Him, through entrance into the Kingdom and service to humanity; it is attained by unity with mankind and through loving-kindness to all; it is dependent upon investigation of truth, acquisition of praiseworthy virtues, service in the cause of universal peace and personal sanctification" (`Abdu'l-Bahá)

A teacher of mine once told me, when I questioned him on his concepts, that Hell is 'where God is not'. This is a wonderful phrase which leaves itself open to interpretation. For me, it clarifies the other side to what I have said, that a disbelief in God, is, if not heaven, Hell. I use Hell because it is an opposite to Heaven, and from certain fictitious descriptions on the concept of Hell, for example in Dante's Inferno, we see a realm where men and women and children all exist without ever having the knowledge of God, and this is where the unbeliever lies, whereas the believer rests within the Kingdom of God, and thus Heaven.

[mal4mac]

Illiterate people some primitive societies still hold this idea of God living luxuries in heaven with fairies. But today we in this world of reason, science, technology, knowledge and communication cannot subscribe to this idea of god.

Incorrect. Literate fundamentalists in the UK subscribe to this idea of God.



God is taken today differently than what is described in the Bible or Koran or in any other scriptures.


Incorrect. Literate fundamentalists in the UK hold their particular Bibles to be the actual word of God.

I have seen no evidence that anything like an Abrahamic God exists. The supposed evidence (turning people to salt, burning bushes...) is not admissible because it has never been repeated in double-blind experiments. The existence of Thor, Fairies, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster seem just as likely. So best to assume that none of these exist. The same goes for any physical description of heaven -- nice fairy stories perhaps, but existing? Nah.

[ehs13]

Personally I believe that maybe God does live in a physical place like heaven but i also believe that somehow He is always with us. Not in a far away place like some religions may believe. But there for us and watching over us somehow.

[blazeofglory]

Personally I believe that maybe God does live in a physical place like heaven but i also believe that somehow He is always with us. Not in a far away place like some religions may believe. But there for us and watching over us somehow.

This is how Hindus perceove

[Nightshade]

Personally I believe that maybe God does live in a physical place like heaven but i also believe that somehow He is always with us. Not in a far away place like some religions may believe. But there for us and watching over us somehow.


This is how Hindus perceove

I thought that was the way it worked omnipotence, that God is with you always, and thus sees all and knows all?

[Judas130]

I thought that was the way it worked omnipotence, that God is with you always, and thus sees all and knows all?

That seems to suggest God would only see through us, and know only the extent of human knowledge that has developed with him over the ages of man. And mankind does not 'know all'. Many deities are described as omnipotent by man, but if this was true, what stops such a force from permeating physically in reality? well, perhaps it does. Perhaps these Gods and mankind are one in the same - its all rooted in similar concept, that we create our deities to live by and like them - so that we may be our god.
The tribal ideas of 'God-eating', acts of cannibalism, the Green Man and suchlike, were seen as the closest you got to your god - and this permeates western religion. In Catholic Christianity, a practitioner will 'eat god' in communion - 'take this, it is my blood, it has been given up for you' etc.

The problems arise when man attempts to personalise their deities. Yet does 'God' have to be a deity?

[mono]

Even in BCE times, I think Cicero strongly established between three common arguments (Epicurean, Stoic, Skeptic) in The Nature of the Gods where and how any possibly existent God(s) reside(s). Claiming that an Infinite Being resides in a Hedonistic land such as heaven contradicts infinity, having placed restrictions upon its locations; an idealistic theory of infinity exists not only everywhere measurable, but places beyond the reach of human knowledge, perception, and imagination, our scope proving respectively finite and inevitably biased (i.e. faith).
By claiming that God exists everywhere, meaning everywhere within the scope of human faculties (material [intrapersonal, nature, air, etc.] or immaterial [ether, energy, cosmos, etc.]), and that the "Kingdom of God" exists within each and every one of us, implies that any God exists partially as material and partially immaterial, which also contradicts the ideal theory of Absolute infinity, seeing that even atoms have an age (in organic chemistry, measured at about 8*10^25 years); furthermore, in the oft-abused theory of relativity, Albert Einstein demonstrated logically and mathematically the conversion of the immaterial (energy [E]) to material (mass [M] multiplied by the square of the speed of light [C]), thereby placing the ethereal within the scope of human knowledge and attainment (within a vacuum chamber), also contradicting the ideal idea of infinity. Certainly, humankind does not know all, but I cannot discern which sounds more delusional - human-created religion or human-created science. :confused:
My question lies not so much as to where or how any God(s) reside(s), but whether he/she/it/they live(s) at all. Setting aside droll Creationism for a few moments, in biology 101 there exist 10 universal characteristics of life: cells, metabolism, respiration, excretion, homeostasis, growth/development, mobility, reproduction, responsiveness, and adaptability. If, according to human biology, a monotheistic God lives like you and I, then his/her/its "Kingdom" must have multiplied many times over, since I wonder as to what ground he/she/it stood, grew, ate, moved, breathed, excreted, sensed upon when creating the universe some 14 billion years ago. The "unmoved mover," anyone?

[NikolaiI]

That seems to suggest God would only see through us, and know only the extent of human knowledge that has developed with him over the ages of man.

This reminds me of a quote of Amma: God has no hands but our hands, no feet but our feet. :)

[NikolaiI]

What if heaven is just part of God's energy, but not God Himself?

Further, if God is the source of everything, the Absolute, then to understand God's location is a little different than understanding the location of a mundane person or place. God is the source of infinite levels of existence, therefore location for Him is not the same as with mundane places. Since God is the source, therefore God exists not "somewhere" but actually within us - within, beneath all levels of existence. Since God is the source, then anything we look at in this world came from the source, came from God.

But anyway, God doesn't really have a location. God's location is God Himself - the source, eternal and infinite. I think heaven is a preliminary part of God sort of. Maybe heaven is the aura surrounding God.

[Judas130]

Claiming that an Infinite Being resides in a Hedonistic land such as heaven contradicts infinity, having placed restrictions upon its locations; an idealistic theory of infinity exists not only everywhere measurable, but places beyond the reach of human knowledge, perception, and imagination, our scope proving respectively finite and inevitably biased

Replace 'infinity' with 'immortality' and think from that perspective on the subject.



By claiming that God exists everywhere, meaning everywhere within the scope of human faculties (material [intrapersonal, nature, air, etc.] or immaterial [ether, energy, cosmos, etc.]), and that the "Kingdom of God" exists within each and every one of us, implies that any God exists partially as material and partially immaterial, which also contradicts the ideal theory of Absolute infinity, seeing that even atoms have an age (in organic chemistry, measured at about 8*10^25 years);

By claiming God as the natural order, or existence itself, the fibre of reality - what we are doing is not proposing a personalised deity with a face and feelings or even supposing the ideas of Abrahamic assertion, we are giving an occurrence another name, so that we may understand ourselves by it and use what we used with the deities (becoming the god) within knowledge of unity in the universe. The "Kingdom" is this knowledge - but traditionally it is faith and, like you mentioned, it has limited scope - it is an attempt to reach some understanding, or truth - yet this truth lies outside of faith, and within reason. To allow God into your life, is to realise who you are, from what we all are, and to become our God - having become so far removed from this by our fancies and our perversions. On your note about atoms, you will find that the life expectancy of an atom is longer than the proposed life of the universe, and thus existence is immortal, and a physical infinite, in that it will exist in some form or another, beyond comprehension - but more importantly, what made us to exist, will exist still, but we will not.




My question lies not so much as to where or how any God(s) reside(s), but whether he/she/it/they live(s) at all.

If God is existence, can you deny it with your existing mind?

[mono]

. . . if God is the source of everything, the Absolute, then to understand God's location is a little different than understanding the location of a mundane person or place . . . God doesn't really have a location. God's location is God Himself - the source, eternal and infinite
Precisely Cicero's (and my) point! Dialing in the source of a tennis racket to a sports store or gym to Mapquest.com, and getting directions, will likely pose some different results to typing in the alleged source of all, God, and trying to get directions to heaven. :D

Replace 'infinity' with 'immortality' and think from that perspective on the subject.
I used the term "infinity," in regards to location, to stick with the subject of the thread, as to where any existent God resides, not when. The elementary human mind can comprehend neither infinity nor immortality, regardless, and even touching upon Cicero's concept of common contradictions to any divine Being's infinity poses a challenge; discussing immortality appears not only another complex discussion in itself, but also something unrelated to the subject of this discussion. I did not intend upon an ontological discussion questioning whether a God exists or not, especially considering that the subject of the thread assumes a monotheistic God exists.

By claiming God as the natural order, or existence itself, the fibre of reality - what we are doing is not proposing a personalised deity with a face and feelings or even supposing the ideas of Abrahamic assertion, we are giving an occurrence another name, so that we may understand ourselves by it and use what we used with the deities (becoming the god) within knowledge of unity in the universe. The "Kingdom" is this knowledge - but traditionally it is faith and, like you mentioned, it has limited scope - it is an attempt to reach some understanding, or truth - yet this truth lies outside of faith, and within reason. To allow God into your life, is to realise who you are, from what we all are, and to become our God - having become so far removed from this by our fancies and our perversions.
I highly appreciate your explanation. :)

On your note about atoms, you will find that the life expectancy of an atom is longer than the proposed life of the universe, and thus existence is immortal, and a physical infinite, in that it will exist in some form or another, beyond comprehension - but more importantly, what made us to exist, will exist still, but we will not.
Indeed, I placed both of the facts, of the lifespan of an atom and the age of the universe, in my post for that very reason, but I cannot understand how the finite life expectancy of an atom makes existence immortal. The theory of the universe proves indeed a theory, but a logical one; science has come to the ability of measuring the beyond-microscopic, basest elements we consist of (mostly carbon), as well as how long our universe has existed (and theoretically continues to expand), but that atoms can almost literally die, having an estimated lifespan, does not make them immortal, but the very opposite. Again, setting aside Creationism for a moment (another discussion, another thread), since atoms have existed before what we, from our perspective, recognize as the universe, this implies that all material came about once upon a time, while something immortal never "comes about," but has always existed, continues to exist, and will always exist; something immortal has no age, but material like atoms and the universe all have an age measurable by theoretical human empiricism.
Where these atoms originated, whether or not they have continued production, and when they will cease production perplexes me. Certain elements of the periodic table prove entirely humanmade, and some unstable ones only existed for a brief few moments before fragmenting into their free components, forming ionic and covalent bonds; this further emphasizes the mortality of atoms and molecules. On this note, I cannot claim what existed before atoms, how they came about, and if this mythical Flying Spaghetti Monster created them all at once, but if Its pasta-like tentacles cease production of the bases of our existence, then, I agree with you, this seems beyond our comprehension, but I think it safe to say that no universe would exist.

If God is existence, can you deny it with your existing mind?
Again, this sounds like more of an ontological discussion for/against the existence of any God. By questioning if he/she/it lives, I did not mean to question any God's existence, as the subject of this thread assumes a monotheistic God exists, but I wondered if, in humanistic terms, we could state whether a God lives, according to the characteristics of life in biology (everything proven from bacteria to plants and aquatic animals to mammals); the window adjacent to my desk presently exists, but shows no signs of life, yet the cat sitting atop the windowsill not only exists, but shows all 10 of those characteristics of life. I can play along in the thought that a monotheistic God exists, as the thread presumes, but if I think he/she/it alive? Definitely not; the characteristics of life only exist amid things mortal and finite, and any existent God proves neither.

[NikolaiI]

My question lies not so much as to where or how any God(s) reside(s), but whether he/she/it/they live(s) at all. Setting aside droll Creationism for a few moments, in biology 101 there exist 10 universal characteristics of life: cells, metabolism, respiration, excretion, homeostasis, growth/development, mobility, reproduction, responsiveness, and adaptability.

Ah... well, in Srimad Bhagavatam, it is described that there are six changes, but those are for the material body which the soul has acquired, and for the soul there is no change.

SB 7.7.18

janmādyāḥ ṣaḍ ime bhāvā
dṛṣṭā dehasya nātmanaḥ
phalānām iva vṛkṣasya
kāleneśvara-mūrtinā

Translation

Just as the fruits and flowers of a tree in due course of time undergo six changes — birth, existence, growth, transformation, dwindling and then death — the material body, which is obtained by the spirit soul under different circumstances, undergoes similar changes. However, there are no such changes for the spirit soul.

Bhagavad Gita also confirms this, BG 2.16

Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both.

[MANICHAEAN]

I believe that God is closer than the very air you breath.
At the same time I cannot rationalise it.

[NikolaiI]

I believe that God is closer than the very air you breath.
At the same time I cannot rationalise it.

I agree with this entirely.

[don alfa]

we will never fully understand the infinite God and will surely fail to grasp the limited comprehension if we have to believe in what other people have written about God, life and many more. the bible itself tells us that he (God) is omnipresent-everywhere, omnipotent-most powerful, omniscient-all knowing and that just as heavens are higher than earth so are his ways and thoughts than ours. it says in Job that he is incomprehensible in Ecclesiastes it says His works are unsearchable these are the attributes of God that should guide us in our quests about whatever pertains God.

About whether God lives literally in heaven if we look at what Apostle Paul said that he was caught up in the third heaven that is not a metaphoric way of saying holiness or whatever one might think, we fail to understand the scriptures because we take all them too literal or too symbolic.
In the holiest of holy heavens that is where the throne of God is situated as he rules in his kingdom of heaven over His the celestial and terrestrial servants, He is everywhere the bible says and the same bible says that he is too holy to be in our defiled environment. It says He is in His children which is supported by what Christ said the kingdom of God or heaven is within you (the chosen ones) so whoever is a real born again Christian who keeps God's commands is to that person that God will come in his heart as Jesus says in the gospel of John and as small John says in his letters that if we do not walk in light we have no fellowship with him. The way God operated with the Israelite nation with Moses in the wilderness that is the way he is doing it with us through our mediator Jesus Christ meaning He is somewhere where the Lord goes and intercede for us until we reach the promised land which is described in Ephesians as the building that is being build for the dwelling of God and as the word word says that Christ is purifying the saints to present them to God holy and without any spot because God is holy and pure, a person has to be if he want to see God. In short i will say God is in heaven.

[don alfa]

A teacher of mine once told me, when I questioned him on his concepts, that Hell is 'where God is not'. This is a wonderful phrase which leaves itself open to interpretation. For me, it clarifies the other side to what I have said, that a disbelief in God, is, if not heaven, Hell. I use Hell because it is an opposite to Heaven, and from certain fictitious descriptions on the concept of Hell, for example in Dante's Inferno, we see a realm where men and women and children all exist without ever having the knowledge of God, and this is where the unbeliever lies, whereas the believer rests within the Kingdom of God, and thus Heaven.


I do not think that your concept or your teacher's completely defines hell. why am i saying so? Someone who is part of the kingdom of God here on earth may fall from the grace provided and end up in hell when Christ shall come and someone who does not have the knowledge of God may come to that knowledge sooner or later as long as he or they as a group live, while in hell there is no return, when one still has the opportunity to become a child of God he is not in hell but in a hell like which is the kingdom of darkness where Satan is their god and there is no pain whereas hell is the final place of this kingdom, it is like comparably when the Jews where told by God of the curses that will fall on them if they disobey which they did and God patiently told them to look for the old ways by repenting and walk in them and they refused does not show that they were suffering the afflictions of hell until the desolation of Jerusalem came whereby some died by the sword and some by hunger as stated by God, this moment is what could be considered as hell.

[don alfa]

Please those that write God with a small g should change for god is any god which is not the creator and God shows that it is the most powerful God that created everything.

[mono]

I appreciate your modest and obviously Biblically well-educated stance, don alfa, and welcome to the forum. From your perspective, in thoroughly alluding to The Bible, a few things do not make entire sense to me, and I would appreciate more explanation.

the bible itself tells us that he (God) is omnipresent-everywhere, omnipotent-most powerful, omniscient-all knowing and that just as heavens are higher than earth so are his ways and thoughts than ours. it says in Job that he is incomprehensible in Ecclesiastes it says His works are unsearchable these are the attributes of God that should guide us in our quests about whatever pertains God.
. . .
In the holiest of holy heavens that is where the throne of God is situated as he rules in his kingdom of heaven over His the celestial and terrestrial servants, He is everywhere the bible says and the same bible says that he is too holy to be in our defiled environment. It says He is in His children which is supported by what Christ said the kingdom of God or heaven is within you (the chosen ones) so whoever is a real born again Christian who keeps God's commands is to that person that God will come in his heart as Jesus says in the gospel of John and as small John says in his letters that if we do not walk in light we have no fellowship with him.
. . .
In short i will say God is in heaven.
As you may have seen in my previous posts of this thread, I have quoted Cicero up-and-down, sideways-and-diagnoally, so to speak, and from his perspective in The Nature of the Gods (originally, in Latin, De Natura Deorum), as well as mine, this makes little sense. If The Bible itself stated, among other things, that any god proves omnipresent (everywhere), thereby infinite, then this god exists not only in the theorized heaven, but also in our "defiled environment," hell, within us (even those who do not allegedly "accept Him in our hearts"), and in every place, material and immaterial, that transcend the finite human faculties. By stating that an infinite Being does not exist here-or-there contradicts infinity and reduces his/her/its to human understanding, a faculty that cannot comprehend such a concept as infinity, despite what any text writes (whether The Bible or The Nature of the Gods); it implies that an infinite Being has borders and limits, thus rendering him/her/it impotent and having apparently created unknowing parts of the universe, both contradictory to what The Bible states.
Even stating that his/her/its holiness, for a lack of better words, exists in different concentrations, contradicts infinity. By writing that in the "holiest of holy heavens," an infinite Being's holiness appears more pure there, as opposed to our "defiled environment" implies that his/her/its virtue has borders and limits, again rendering his/her/its abilities impotent, assuming that one of the many virtues of any god proves as holiness. Instead, I would believe that a truly infinite Being's virtue, his/her/its power, knowledge, and existence, exists equally everywhere; by stating that an infinite Being resides here or there, his/her/its holiness exists more purely here or there, or that "He is in His Children" (as opposed to "His unchildren"), assumes lack of ability, knowing, and existence, contradicting what The Bible states as a god's qualities as omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence.
Based upon this, my question: how can an apparently infinite Being, including his/her/its virtues of holiness, exist more here-and-there, and less in other places?