Do animals know about death?

[blazeofglory]

Do animals know that they will die?

In fact it is men only who know about death and are worried about it. Animals in fact do not know it. And animals are not worried about death.

We humans are much worried about death, and cannot enjoy life.

I urge posters to give opinions.

[weltanschauung]

" an abyss of two incommunicable worlds opens between the man that has the feeling of death and the one who doesnt; despite this, they both die; but one ignores his own death, and the other knows it; one dies at only one instant, the other cant stop dying at every instant... their common condition puts them precisely at the antipodes of one another; at the two extremes and inside the same definition; incompatible, they suffer the same destiny.. one lives as if he were eternal; the other continuously thinks his eternity at denies it in each thought." (e. cioran- a short history of decay)

[MarkBastable]

Not according to Yeats...


Nor dread nor hope attend
A dying animal;
A man awaits his end
Dreading and hoping all;
Many times he died,
Many times rose again.
A great man in his pride
Confronting murderous men
Casts derision upon
Supersession of breath;
He knows death to the bone --
Man has created death.

[Helga]

I don't think they know they will die, but at a certain time I think they are ready. my friends dog was 15 years old when they put him to sleep and you could see it in his eyes a few days and weeks earlier that he just wanted to go to sleep and not wake up. but up until he got very sick he probably thought he would play with his mommy forever

[Homers_child]

I think they can recognize death, such as one of their own dying. They know their buddy isn't going to wake up and so a pack of animals would leave them behind after sniffing them and possibly mourning (like elephants).

But, I don't think they have the capability to see death and attribute it to themselves. Or... maybe they do. How could we really know? For example, primates are very similar to ourselves. Could they have fears of death? I'm not sure how could you prove either way. Animals avoid death just as we do.

[The Atheist]

Do animals know that they will die?

Pretty sure some of the other mammals do. Elephants, dolphins, whales & apes seem to mourn and respect their dead, so I'd say yes, but we obviously can't be sure.


We humans are much worried about death, and cannot enjoy life.

This makes no sense to me. Knowing that we will die increases my determination to enjoy life, and I do, so your theory falls over.

[MarkBastable]

Originally Posted by blazeofglory
We humans are much worried about death, and cannot enjoy life.


You often make these bald generalisations about how humans act, think, perceive things. Right or wrong, they ought to be supported by some kind of demonstrable argument (and not just '...as Hippocrates showed us...') otherwise you're always going to come up against flat contradiction that kills the proposition stone-dead.

So when Atheist says, "Well, I'm not," do you respond with,

a) Oh, okay. In that case forget the whole thing.
b) Ah, really? Let me refine the proposition to accommodate that new intelligence.
c) Er, actually, I think you are, even if you think you're not - allow me to argue that possibility.

[1n50mn14]

I'm of the opinion that yes, animals do know about death. Their main purpose in life is reproduction and ensuring the survival of the species: how could they not know about death? Perhaps they don't worry about it in the way humans do, in fact, I doubt they do, but I'm quire sure that they are aware. Luckily, they likely don't spend hours worrying about the purpose of life, what happens after death, etc. (But who am I to know anything for certain.)

Why do horses spook at cars, why do cattle run from wolves, why do many animals flee humans? To survive, which to me, points out an awareness of death.

When I was younger on the farm, the chickens knew when they were to be slaughtered. We'd kill one, and the others would be wary and refuse to be caught, even though the carcasses would be out of sight and earshot.

[The Atheist]

Why do horses spook at cars, why do cattle run from wolves, why do many animals flee humans? To survive, which to me, points out an awareness of death.


You're confusing simple survival instinct with knowledge of death. A fush will hide from a shark, but I'd lay very good odds a fish doesn't know what death is.

[weltanschauung]

i really dont think animals have perception of past and future. they live in the present, true it can be influenced by past experiences, but i dont think their memory is actively reflective.
to be able to think and know about death one has to be able to think of the future, and animals live in the present. when death approaches they probably feel "confused" and somewhat alarmed, but the thought of death is something i dont think they have. well, maybe an elephant... perhaps they can associate their own state with the death of others they have witnessed, but even that seems very unlikely, since it seems like some active reflection would be necessary.
it probably differs with the type of animal, however. i just cant imagine how even a monkey could have such sophisticated thoughts.

[AlaskaDan]

Dying is as natural as anything else on this planet. Everything has a beginning and an end including the planet. Someday it will all be gone and all of our literature and science will be dust in the universe. All the inventions and everything connected to mankind and the animal kingdom will be gone and no record will exist anywhere. Enjoy your life and be good to others. Mankind thinks ( generally ) that he is way more important than he actually is.
Trillions of years went by before the earth was formed and trillions of years will go by after the earth is gone. That tiny speck of time that the planet Earth existed will go completely unnoticed in the rest of the universe.

[Lokasenna]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6919063.stm

I don't think this is quite what blaze had in mind, but it made me vaguely curious.

[Paulclem]

I used to work in a slaughterhouse - an unpleasant and sad place, but times were hard in the 80s - and I used to hear people say that the animals knew they were going to die - cattle, sheep, pigs.

I don't think this was true. Some pigs used to die on the transport due to stress, and it affected all the animals. They were scared by the noise, unfamiliarity, the shouting etc, but it would be difficult to say that they knew about death. They would be there at night - those animals that stayed overnight - mere metres from where they would die the next day, and they would be calm while it was quiet.

I wouldn' say they knew about death, and anyway how could they without the verbalisation skills?

[LitNetIsGreat]

We humans are much worried about death, and cannot enjoy life.


This makes no sense to me. Knowing that we will die increases my determination to enjoy life, and I do, so your theory falls over.

I certainly don't think it is an either/or issue, it is more complex than that. The shortness of life can give you the positive edge to really live to the full (but how many of us can honestly say we really, really do that every day?) and I try to do that myself, but there is still the nagging threat at the back of my mind that I can't quite shake off all the time.

I'd say that some smarter mammals do comprehend death in some way, but not as fully as humans do.

I sometimes think there is some merit in being a cow, just stood in a field all day munching on grass with no worries...

[keilj]

i really dont think animals have perception of past and future. they live in the present

elephants go back and visit the bones of their dead loved ones years after the loved ones have died

they can find the exact bones, even after being miles and miles away for extended periods of time - they can go back and find them.

[bazarov]

Animals are also aware that they will die, and they are aware of that when the moment comes.

[Agonbite]

I have hunted (that is - killed) quite a few wild animals. Yes, I am sure every time I enter the woods with the rifle, the grouses, hares, beavers and gooses do know what the game is - that I am about to take their life. If I do not carry a gun, they act different.

I think animals do know death just as we do. But that is a contradiction. Wild animals are living constantly on the edge. They can not do any mistakes. And because death is always just a step away, they do not have to pay attention to their mortality. Death is not an option, death exists.

I would imagine a human rope-walker would not worry about his future death. He would be worried about his performance. And afterwards he would be glad he did not die, and would not give a thought to the fact that some day he has to.

[The Atheist]

I have hunted (that is - killed) quite a few wild animals. Yes, I am sure every time I enter the woods with the rifle, the grouses, hares, beavers and gooses do know what the game is - that I am about to take their life. If I do not carry a gun, they act different.


You will find that this is because of your attitude rather than the gun.

[BienvenuJDC]

You will find that this is because of your attitude rather than the gun.

Nonetheless, they understand what it is like to be hunted (by man or other predators). Yes, they do fear death...

[Revolte]

Why would they not know? Animals have been dying long before our species came into play.


You will find that this is because of your attitude rather than the gun.

Unless the individual animal has been introduced to the gun in violent ways before hand.

[*Classic*Charm*]

Animals have the capacity to recognize death when they see it. They know that a dead animal is dead. Some species have shown a sort of mourning behaviour.

The belief among animal biologists now, however, is that animals live solely in the present. They do not have the capability to look into the future. For example, when an animal is experiencing pain, they are unable to 'think' "once I go to the vet, I won't feel pain anymore". They don't have that ability to reason. To them, whatever is their current state is permanent because they don't have a concept of future.


Nonetheless, they understand what it is like to be hunted (by man or other predators). Yes, they do fear death...

They don't really "understand" anything. They feel pain, stress, fear but they don't "understand" what they're feeling. Death is not a feeling, therefore they cannot fear it.


I'm of the opinion that yes, animals do know about death. Their main purpose in life is reproduction and ensuring the survival of the species: how could they not know about death? Perhaps they don't worry about it in the way humans do, in fact, I doubt they do, but I'm quire sure that they are aware. Luckily, they likely don't spend hours worrying about the purpose of life, what happens after death, etc. (But who am I to know anything for certain.)

Why do horses spook at cars, why do cattle run from wolves, why do many animals flee humans? To survive, which to me, points out an awareness of death.

When I was younger on the farm, the chickens knew when they were to be slaughtered. We'd kill one, and the others would be wary and refuse to be caught, even though the carcasses would be out of sight and earshot.

They reproduce out of instinct, not because they have the conscious thought "I need to proliferate my species". They spook and run because the object poses the threat of competition. They experience stress in the presence of unfamiliarity. I don't think the chickens were aware of death, but the first one killed would have been experiencing stress at being removed from its familiar grouping, familiar surroundings, being suddenly handled by a person. The other chickens would be able to recognize that the first one is experiencing stress and would feel the unfamiliarity and have the same stress reaction. It's all a stress response to sudden change and unfamiliarity.


i really dont think animals have perception of past and future. they live in the present, true it can be influenced by past experiences, but i dont think their memory is actively reflective.
to be able to think and know about death one has to be able to think of the future, and animals live in the present. when death approaches they probably feel "confused" and somewhat alarmed, but the thought of death is something i dont think they have. well, maybe an elephant... perhaps they can associate their own state with the death of others they have witnessed, but even that seems very unlikely, since it seems like some active reflection would be necessary.
it probably differs with the type of animal, however. i just cant imagine how even a monkey could have such sophisticated thoughts.

Exactly.


I used to work in a slaughterhouse - an unpleasant and sad place, but times were hard in the 80s - and I used to hear people say that the animals knew they were going to die - cattle, sheep, pigs.

I don't think this was true. Some pigs used to die on the transport due to stress, and it affected all the animals. They were scared by the noise, unfamiliarity, the shouting etc, but it would be difficult to say that they knew about death. They would be there at night - those animals that stayed overnight - mere metres from where they would die the next day, and they would be calm while it was quiet.

I wouldn' say they knew about death, and anyway how could they without the verbalisation skills?

Honestly, the transport process is the worst part of an animal's life. It takes them out of their familiar groupings and studies show that unfamiliar social mixing is extremely stressful for animals, the stocking density in transportation vehicles is often way too high, the air quality is terrible, the trips often too long, and pigs are extremely sensitive to handling practices. They can literally drop dead of stress if you look at them the wrong way.

And really, a lot of the poor practices that go on at slaughter plants could be corrected by re-vamping the position of the slaughter plant attendants. They need to be more educated and they need to have respect for the animals and for the job they do. The shouting and electric prods need to be eliminated, and doing so could be so easy with the right re-training.

If you don't mind my asking, Paul, have you experience with downer cows?

Pigs do have a system of verbalization though. They can recognize squeals and whatnot as being related to a certain feeling, I believe. Same with dogs barking/growling, etc.