This little poem

[PrinceMyshkin]

was lifted, whole, from where it first appeared
and has been posted here,
on your site, by the liar
who signed his or her name
below!

*
Stolen from http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?p=755435#post755435

[breathtest]

hahaha BRILLIANT. shove it in their faces. I feel as though i should be shouting and cheering you on.

[PrinceMyshkin]

hahaha BRILLIANT. shove it in their faces. I feel as though i should be shouting and cheering you on.

I just added a line about where this was stolen from. I've noticed that the plagiarist, in lifting my "Brain-scan" included the line attributing the idea for it to Virgil. I'm hoping that others will take up my idea of posting their own poems to http://forum.3rbdream.net/dream29/ before the plagiarist can do so. The administrator of that site has been notified by Sophia that this is going on but obviously has no intention of exiling the plagiarist. I've also urged our own Administrator to take this up with Google.

[AuntShecky]

In our local Sunday paper the editor's weekly column stated that the AP (Associated Press) has an application which traces the source every time some other publication copies one of its articles and prints it in its own publication. Evidently the AP can then bill (or sue) the periodical which pilfered AP's intellectual property.

Maybe there's a similar app that LitNet could use?

[PrinceMyshkin]

In our local Sunday paper the editor's weekly column stated that the AP (Associated Press) has an application which traces the source every time some other publication copies one of its articles and prints it in its own publication. Evidently the AP can then bill (or sue) the periodical which pilfered AP's intellectual property.

Maybe there's a similar app that LitNet could use?

I've written Admin about this but their position is that since they don't own the copyright on the plagiarized material, there's nothing they can do, but it might not hurt to bring your info to their attention.

[symphony]

I emailed pccwglobal as our Admin suggested. No response yet... Well may be I should be patient, it's only been 3 days.

[amuse]

:D Brill

[blazeofglory]

was lifted, whole, from where it first appeared
and has been posted here,
on your site, by the liar
who signed his or her name
below!

*
Stolen from http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?p=755435#post755435

You punned it strikingly.

[firefangled]

I sent a formal copyright infingement document to PCCW Global, the apparent owner of the website. They can remove the poems if they will.

24 hours to respond with their intentions is the legal time limit. I'll post whatever response I get. If it is positive I will be happy to post the completed template for all to use and just substitute your own information.

Thanks to Sophia, Symphony, and Monamy for their efforts in providing information and posting acknowledgements in the Arab Dream Forums.

[PrinceMyshkin]

I sent a formal copyright infingement document to PCCW Global, the apparent owner of the website. They can remove the poems if they will.

24 hours to respond with their intentions is the legal time limit. I'll post whatever response I get. If it is positive I will be happy to post the completed template for all to use and just substitute your own information.

Thanks to Sophia, Symphony, and Monamy for their efforts in providing information and posting acknowledgements in the Arab Dream Forums.

Hats off to you for doing that. If I knew how to navigate the thicket of URLs, links &c. I'd do the same - and if you do post the template, I'd use it.

[Delta40]

How do you effectively monitor plagiarism?

[vagantes]

And who are you going to sue and where.

All this is hatred.

Let it be.

What you write is what you write.

that's it.

No one can recapture that moment.

[PrinceMyshkin]

To Vagantes, message #12:

Have you checked to see whether any of your poems were pilfered? And if they were, are you still as laid-back about it as in your above post? It's theft, dude, as if someone had broken into your house, taken something and then found a fence to take it off his or her hands.

This is our communal house and our poems are the equivalent of our material possessions.

[Delta40]

I feel the same way yet I wonder if this remark is a case of 'size matters'. What I'm trying to say is that I write short stories as well and I would be especially miffed if they were stolen. Perhaps a few lines of verse are not regarded as important? All original work is of course and we should not minimise their relevance based on size....

just a thought

[PrinceMyshkin]

I feel the same way yet I wonder if this remark is a case of 'size matters'. What I'm trying to say is that I write short stories as well and I would be especially miffed if they were stolen. Perhaps a few lines of verse are not regarded as important? All original work is of course and we should not minimise their relevance based on size....

just a thought

Of course size does NOT matter! I've written an eight word poem I'm rather proud of. Happily I posted it here long before the plagiarizer began his or her work here.

[Delta40]

I agree. But I think other people probably feel differently. Especially when it comes to the principles of stealing. For example the rationalisation is thus:

'It's only two dollars - not two hundred'

I'm speaking in terms of size and not value here so don't misunderstand me. I only want to understand why people plagiarize and I don't want to offend you.

[vagantes]

You asked on another thread why people began to hate each other because of difference.

Unfortunately you have answered your own question.

When I write a poem I do something unique. if someone chooses to copy it and pass it off as their own work they are deluding themselves and thus are of no interest. What is unique stays unique. It does not mean it has any worth: simply that it is unique. Nor does it mean that I own something I have created as I do not own any of my children. My poems exist for themselves and by themselves and if anyone wishes to claim they own them, then that is a form of madness to be pitied.

[PrinceMyshkin]

You asked on another thread why people began to hate each other because of difference.

Unfortunately you have answered your own question.

When I write a poem I do something unique. if someone chooses to copy it and pass it off as their own work they are deluding themselves and thus are of no interest. What is unique stays unique. It does not mean it has any worth: simply that it is unique. Nor does it mean that I own something I have created as I do not own any of my children. My poems exist for themselves and by themselves and if anyone wishes to claim they own them, then that is a form of madness to be pitied.

I hope we haven't misundrstood each other. I don't hate the plagiarist because he or she is (as I can only assume) an Arab or a Muslim but because he or she is a thief.

[vagantes]

The problem is that you are conflating the terms.

[PrinceMyshkin]

The problem is that you are conflating the terms.

Which terms: "Arab/Muslim" with "thief"? He/she is taking poems written by others and posting them, over his/her own name, on a site designated as Arabic...

[vagantes]

Your poem about anti-semitism pointed out that racial hatred is not always obvious. Eg. the poster following the poem complained you were always posting poems which were about hating Jews ie it is acceptable to hate Jewish people, because they are always being defended which is irritating.

Your comment about solidarity with women at the end of my poem about Women's rights was rather patronising and demonstrated a view of women as not equal to men.

Your attack on this plagiarist constantly refers to him or her as Arabic, about which you have no proof and further as someone as pointed it is not a reliable term to use.

You are establishing difference which is a step toward racism/ sexism though you are obviously no racist or sexist, but your posts are beginning to provide ammunition for others to use etc,. etc.

[PrinceMyshkin]

Your poem about anti-semitism pointed out that racial hatred is not always obvious. Eg. the poster following the poem complained you were always posting poems which were about hating Jews ie it is acceptable to hate Jewish people, because they are always being defended which is irritating.

Your comment about solidarity with women at the end of my poem about Women's rights was rather patronising and demonstrated a view of women as not equal to men.

Where on earth do you find what you allege in the following comment on your poem:



Marvellous poem - not only for its defense of women's rights but for the right (or is it the duty?) of all of us to look closely and compassionately at our fellow/sister creatures.


Your attack on this plagiarist constantly refers to him or her as Arabic, about which you have no proof and further as someone as pointed it is not a reliable term to use.

He or she has been cutting and pasting our poems to a site clearly identified as "Arabic." Therefore I had no trouble eliminating the possibility that he/she was, e.g., Lithuanian, Welsh, Inuit &c.


You are establishing difference which is a step toward racism/ sexism though you are obviously no racist or sexist, but your posts are beginning to provide ammunition for others to use etc,. etc.

People who are so inclined will always find reasons to accuse others of this or that.

[vagantes]

Here is a quotation from Pascal:

"It is natural for the mind to believe and for the will to love: so that, for the want of true objects, they must attach themselves to the false".

It would appear that pseudo-feelings can be so seductive that we suspend our critical faculties. They become a danger to objective thought.

[PrinceMyshkin]

Here is a quotation from Pascal:

"It is natural for the mind to believe and for the will to love: so that, for the want of true objects, they must attach themselves to the false".

It would appear that pseudo-feelings can be so seductive that we suspend our critical faculties. They become a danger to objective thought.

A problem with the quotation is whether Pascal is using "natural" as a scientific term or an ideological one. He was, after all, a mathematician, physicist and a philosopher, not a biologist. And on what basis do you distinguish "pseudo-feelings" from authentic ones?

[vagantes]

The objective correlative.

[PrinceMyshkin]

The objective correlative.

But who will be the administrator of that criterion?

[firefangled]

And who are you going to sue and where.

All this is hatred.

Let it be.

What you write is what you write.

that's it.

No one can recapture that moment.

This is not about me or any one person. It has nothing to do with hatred. Yes, you can take the stance of Yeats in his poem A Coat, but I choose not to. Many of the poems written here by me and others have taken months to compose. To think they were stolen by a technology that blindly grabs new posts and imports them to another website makes it even more cowardly if that is possible.

You underestimate the severity of this, vagantes, with your cavalier attitude about it. To say it is hatred indicates to me you do not understand what is going on in the least.

If you made your living as a poet, where would you draw the line at "letting it be" - one poem, two...three? In the case of earning a living from poetry, what you write is what you eat and where you stay warm and safe.

You haven't given this much thought. That is evident.


How do you effectively monitor plagiarism?

Delta, I do not think you can most of the time, particularly on the internet in a nation where students have graduated from high school and even some colleges having never written an original thought.

However, when you catch someone at plagiarism, it is as serious a matter not to let them know that you know what they did. An effective law suit from something stolen from LN would cost more than you would ever collect I imagine.

[vagantes]

All property is theft including intellectual property.

By the way- who makes a living from poetry?

[PrinceMyshkin]

This is not about me or any one person. It has nothing to do with hatred. Yes, you can take the stance of Yeats in his poem A Coat, but I choose not to. Many of the poems written here by me and others have taken months to compose. To think they were stolen by a technology that blindly grabs new posts and imports them to another website makes it even more cowardly if that is possible.

You underestimate the severity of this, vagantes, with your cavalier attitude about it. To say it is hatred indicates to me you do not understand what is going on in the least.

If you made your living as a poet, where would you draw the line at "letting it be" - one poem, two...three? In the case of earning a living from poetry, what you write is what you eat and where you stay warm and safe.

You haven't given this much thought. That is evident.

One quibble with the foregoing: very few of us can realistically expect to make a dime let alone a living out of writing poetry, but



Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him,
And makes me poor indeed.

[firefangled]

All property is theft including intellectual property.

By the way- who makes a living from poetry?


One quibble with the foregoing: very few of us can realistically expect to make a dime let alone a living out of writing poetry, but



Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him,
And makes me poor indeed.


Well taken, Prince.

Few make a living off poetry and the majority of those pursue contests and grants to supplement book sales. It was the point that was important, vagantes, because addressing the subject in the ethical arena was not making much of a dent it seemed.

I have been a technical writer for decades. Not of much interest to plagiarist. Most of the technical writing I have done is proprietary. It involves the inner workings of software and hardware inventions. Several of the large corporations I have worked for are in constant pursuit of small companies who have stolen small and large parts of their public documents, or companies have distributed information beyond the parameters of their contract.

In 1983 I wrote an extensive decomposition of corporate processes for the national and internation divisions of a major corporation. It was to be used for developing process training.

I worked on it for hours each week beyond my normal workday for a year. It belonged to the corporation, as did anything I created in their employment. Aside from interviews with personnel in every department in the corporation (which were extensive) I was solely responsible for the books content, text, tables, and diagrams. My boss thanked me publicly for my help with the interviews and claimed he wrote the book, all 200 some pages of it. The kicker, no one made me do this, I did it on my own time because it was needed.

Legally this was not plagiarism. He was the CEO, the company owned me and thus what was created by me within their domain. Was it ethical? He received a $35,000 bonus (in 1983 dollars) for the improvements the study made for the company. I did not even get a raise. I quit 3 months later and started my own company.

Plagiarism is a huge crime against the heart and can be against one financially. It is not acceptible to copy without acknowledgement. It is not acceptable to copy wholesale literature outside public domain.

Thank you, Prince, for this lengthy diatribe in your thread, but everyone here should should be more than just concerned (not sure some are even that). I've said my piece.

Lit-Net serves a valuable purpose in calling attention to and motivating an interest in poetry and literature, even if none of us pursue notions beyond here.

[PrinceMyshkin]

Thank you, firefangled, for this self-described "diatribe," every word of which meant something to me; however it was in your "Plagiarism is a huge crime against the heart" that I thought you got at the non-legal aspect of what is so offensive about this sort of plagiarism. Even the lightest of our poems are aspects of our personhood, offered in trust and appreciation of this community.

[vagantes]

This is becoming cringe-making.

First we use poetry as a stick to beat the Arabs, now it's becoming something like a community love-in.

Nasty,nasty,very very nasty.

I appreciate that we all wish to become good citizens and help old ladies cross the road, but can we have some pillage and rape as well please.

I'll rephrase that: can we have some good old life with all its myriad flaws and blemishes.