Lord of the Rings- genre

[Linka_p87]

I’m preparing to my B.A. Thesis defense (My topic is: Tolkien’s Frodo from The Lord of the Rings as an Untypical Epic Hero) and one of the questions I probably will be asked is: What genre The Lord of the Rings is? I know about the epic elements, but I’m not sure about elements of other genres existing in the book. If you could help me or suggest anything I would be VERY grateful!

[Niamh]

Epic Fantasy.

[PeterL]

Epic fantasy is an appropriate term for the sub-genre, but I think that you may find that Frodo was not all that atypical. There were a number of unlikely heroes in myth and legend who were selected by the Gods or by chance. The first such hero that comes to mind in Ilya of Murom.

[Linka_p87]

In my B.A. Thesis I focus on Frodo's qualities untypical for epic heroes. And when you think about it, Frodo has a lot of such qualities and there are many situations when he acts in a very different way than Beowulf would.

[PeterL]

I understand what you mean,, but his type is one of the types that has been used as epic heroes. Beowulf was not the only model for epic heroes.

[Nightshade]

I have to say the only ataypical aspect of frodo as I see it was his not being human thing, but thats where the fantasy comes in.

[Linka_p87]

I know that Beowuf is not the only model for epic hero. Still typical epic heros are mostly build on the bases similar to Achilles or Beowulf. Later the model began to change making the hero more human and with less godlike qualities. And while Tolkien follows epic genre’s conventions he at the same time departs from the classic model of a hero. In fact, he leaves Frodo with only few heroic qualities.

[andave_ya]

a-typical, not untypical. Furthermore why are you limiting yourself to types of Achilles or Beowulf? If you must have Greek classics, how about Odysseus or Hector? Those are definitely types of heroes.

It's fantasy, primarily. Could also be labeled romance (although that would be missing the point entirely) or adventure, which bleeds into fantasy again.

[Nightshade]

Romance yes but isnt i more along the lines of the Romantic romances rather than romance romance?

[andave_ya]

Romance yes but isnt i more along the lines of the Romantic romances rather than romance romance?

Yeah, I think so too. It would help explain why nature is personified and plays such a big part in the story.

[Linka_p87]

I've chosen to compare Frodo to Achilles and Beowulf in my work that is why I limit myself to them (choosing too many characters would simply distract my work). Besides, I’ve chosen them because they are the best known epic heroes (Hector is killed by Achilles that is also why I’ve decided to stay with Achilles. Odysseus is rather a model for a trickster than a classic hero.

[PeterL]

Through much of history there has been a tradition of heroes who were plucked from an ordinary life and became heroes in literature. In some cases they were contrasted with god-like heroes. Consider the heroes of the Iliad, many were god-like, while there were others who joined the war only after long persuasion. Odysseus for one was a fine human hero, unlike some of the god-like heroes.

[PeterL]

If you can define your thesis well enough, then you might have something to go with, but it would be easy to chop your thesis to shreds, because there have been so many epic heroes who were not god-like figures, and Odysseus is at the top of that list.

[Linka_p87]

And yet, Odysseus never loses anything of his determination, strength (even if it’s human strength), and faith. And Frodo does, all the time. He becomes weak, sad, and weary, he is not a leader until he goes only with Sam and even then Sam must help him all the time. You must know that I’m depicting Frodo with the best known epic models of heroes. The heroic heroes I mean. Those that we learn about in schools and believe to be true heroes but not mixing them with those possessing qualities typical of Christian origin.

[Linka_p87]

I agree that Odysseus is not a god-like figure, but still he posses many heroic qualities and we do not hesitate to call him a hero. And Frodo posses only few of them and he loses them during the journey.

[PeterL]

Odysseus also had, at some points, a lack of resolve.

It's you thesis, so you have to convince yourself that you have a good argument, and it appears that you have done that. It is easy to contrast Frodo with some of the less intelligent heroes of literature, but he is mush like many of the most intelligent ones.

[Nightshade]

slightly off topic but not really ( i think you might be able to follow my train of though on how this links in. George Eliot on Ulyssess ( I just read this his morning so its stuck with me)

We object less to be taxed with the
enslaving excess of our passions than with our deficiency in wider
passion; but if the truth were known, our reputed intensity is often the
dullness of not knowing what else to do with ourselves. Tannhauser, one
suspects, was a knight of ill-furnished imagination, hardly of larger
discourse than a heavy Guardsman; Merlin had certainly seen his best days,
and was merely repeating himself, when he fell into that hopeless
captivity; and we know that Ulysses felt so manifest an _ennui_ under
similar circumstances that Calypso herself furthered his departure. There
is indeed a report that he afterward left Penelope; but since she was
habitually absorbed in worsted work, and it was probably from her that
Telemachus got his mean, pettifogging disposition, always anxious about
the property and the daily consumption of meat, no inference can be drawn
from this already dubious scandal as to the relation between companionship
and constancy.

[Linka_p87]

We can consider Frodo as a hero, of course, but he is rather a Christian like hero. He sacrifices himself to take the burden of the Ring, he breaks under its influence a few times but despite of that he goes on with his mission, etc. BUT he lacks determination of epic heroes, their strength, he stops being in the centre of attention and “The hero remains at the heart of the action, and seems to lose nothing of his adamantine essence.” (Miller, The Epic Hero), he does not seek praise and glory as epic heroes do.
“The hero is devoted to combat and confrontation: he must be prepared to seek out, or at least never avoid, those aspects of the quest involving “blocking” strategies, threats, and finally violence. He is both physically and morally prepared for such violence (…).”(Miller, The Epic Hero), and can you possibly say that Frodo is prepared o fight with Orcs? Or Shelob? Or most importantly Sauron or at least the Ring? In the end he fails to the the Ring.

[Linka_p87]

And those features differentiate Frodo from the simple heroes as well as from those more complex and intelligent.

[Linka_p87]

Nightshade, my personal opinion, nobody can forever be a hero.

[Linka_p87]

a-typical, not untypical

And sorry for all the mistakes :blush:, I'm not a native speaker.

[JCamilo]

Odysseus is archetypical however. The Cunning orator, Frodo is not. It is a normal bumpkin dude. The heroic in traditional senses characters are Aragorn or Legolas or Gandalf. Since the book is about their departure and the end of a magical era, it is natural to find a normal guy as the hero. Tolkien talks about it in his letters.

[JBI]

In terms of archetype - he's the same mold as Winnie The Pooh. Of course, various characters seem cut out of the English pastoral - Merry and Pippin, perhaps, can be attributable to Beatrix Potter's Peter Rabbit and Benjamin Bunny. Certainly there is a tad of the Bible in Aragorn - though I don't think he plays Bar KochVah (Latinized inaccurately as Kokhba) better than the original - and running behind the whole story, in a sense, is the grail mythos, which pops its head out at times - as well as the Norse heroic sage.

But in a sense, Frodo's strangeness of heroism comes from the fact that he isn't really a hero, and doesn't really fit into the molding of the situation - Aragorn, for instance, has all the characteristics of the traditional hero, but ultimately, I think Tolkien was trying to carve out a place in the sun for the "unheroic", or "fat English Bumpkin" that he knew he corresponded to.

[JCamilo]

Yeah, he basically said it. The Hobbits are the hero because it was the end of mythical age and in the end of mythical age common people and not heroes rule...

[Linka_p87]

And I know all of that, and exactly those arguments I use in my work.