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coberst
07-05-2009, 03:53 PM
Are we all neurotic?

My reading tells me that we are all neurotic and some of us are so neurotic that we cannot function satisfactorily in normal society and are then considered to be mentally ill.

]b]All humans repress aspects of their life that might cause anxiety. This repression is called neurosis.[/b] It is the constant conflict wherein the ego constantly struggles to hold down thoughts that will cause anxiety. Freud discovered the unconscious in life and there exists a constant conflict between the unconscious and the ego. The ego keeps that in the unconscious that can cause anxiety from becoming conscious.

Humans are the only species to be self conscious. We dread death and repress that dread because we cannot live with a constant consciousness of our mortality.

Conflict is the essential characteristic of humanness.

Regression to animal existence is one answer to the quest to transcend separateness. Wo/man can try to eliminate that which makes her human but also tortures her; s/he can discard reason and self-consciousness. What is noteworthy here is that if everybody does it, it ain’t fiction; anything everyone does is reality, even if it is a virtual reality. For most people, reason and reality is nothing more than public consensus. “One never ‘loses one’s mind’ when nobody else’s mind differs from one’s own.”

Regression to our animal form of instinctual behavior happens when we replace our lost animal instincts with our own fully developed symbolic instincts; we can then program our self to uncritically follow these culturally formed instincts without further consideration. We can then do like the elephant parade; we hold the tail of the one in front of us with our trunk and march in file without any other thoughts to disturb our tranquility.

“The great characteristic of our time is that we know everything important about human nature that there is to know. Yet never has there been an age in which so little knowledge is securely possessed, so little a part of common understanding. The reason is precisely the advance of specialization, the impossibility of making safe general statements, which has led to a general imbecility.”

The steel worker on the girder
learned not to look down, and does his work
And there are words we have learned
Not to look at,
Not to look for substance
Below them. But we are on the verge
Of vertigo.
George Oppen

Norman Brown informs us that to comprehend Freud one must understand “repression”. “In the new Freudian perspective, the essence of society is repression of the individual, the essence of the individual is repression of the self.”

Freud discovered the importance of repression when he discovered the meaning of the “mad” symptoms of the mentally deranged, plus the meaning of dreams, and thirdly the everyday happenings regarded as slips of the tongue, errors, and random thoughts. He concludes that dreams, mental derangements, and common every day errors (Freudian slips) have meaningful causes that can be explained. Meaningful is the key word here.

Since these psychic phenomena are unconscious we must accept that we have motivation to action with a purpose for which we are unconscious (involuntary purposes). This inner nature of which we are completely unaware leads to Freud’s definition of psychoanalysis as “nothing more than the discovery of the unconscious in mental life.”

Freud discovered that sapiens have unconscious causes which are hidden from her because they are disowned and hidden by the conscious self. The dynamic relationship between the unconscious and conscious life is a constant battle and psychoanalysis is a science of this mental conflict.

The rejection of an idea which is one’s very own and remains so is repression. The essence of repression is in the fact that the individual refuses to recognize this reality of her very own nature. This nature becomes evident when it erupts into consciousness only in dreams or neurotic symptoms or by slips of the tongue.

The unconscious is illuminated only when it is being repressed by the conscious mind. It is a process of psychic conflict. “We obtain our theory of the unconscious from the theory of repression.” Freud’s hypothesis of the repressed unconscious results from the conclusion that it is common to all humans. This is a phenomenon of everyday life; neurosis is common to all humans.

Quotes from Ernest Becker, Pulitzer Prize for General Nonfiction Denial of Death

libernaut
07-06-2009, 03:15 AM
RECOMMEND:
Neil Postman - Amusing ourselves to death

Neil Postman - Technopoly

offers an interesting perspective and critique on the futurist 21st century

coberst
07-06-2009, 07:09 AM
Aristotle said that all men seek happiness. Freud said that the goal of the pleasure-principle is happiness. Man’s desire for happiness sets at odds to the reality-principle. It is the reality-principle that propels the world into tomorrow. Humans naturally seek what they wish but “reality imposes on human beings the necessity of renunciation of pleasures”.

Therein lay the rub and the rub is called repression.

Freud says that the whole edifice of psychoanalysis is constructed on the theory of repression—the essence of society is the repression of the individual--the essence of the individual is repression of him or her self—Freud’s theory is that the phenomena dreams, neurotic symptoms, and errors are caused—i.e. the principle of psychic determinism—they are meaningful because this means there is purpose or intention—“since the purport of these purposive expressions is generally unknown to the person whose purpose they express, Freud is driven to embrace the paradox that there are in a human being purposes of which he knows nothing, involuntary purpose”—i.e. unconscious ideas.

Neurosis is “the disease called man” Nietzsche. “Neurosis is an essential consequence of civilization or culture.” Brown

“Between “normality” and “abnormality” there is no qualitative but only a quantitative difference, based largely on the practical question of whether our neurosis is serious enough to incapacitate us for work.” The difference between “neurotic and healthy is only that the healthy have a socially useful form of neurosis.”

Freud defined psychoanalysis as “nothing more than discovery of the unconscious in mental life”—the other hypothesis is that “some unconscious ideas in a human being are incapable of becoming conscious to him in the ordinary way, because they are strenuously disowned and resisted by the conscious life”.

Norman Brown tells us that to comprehend Freud one must understand “repression”. “In the new Freudian perspective, the essence of society is repression of the individual, the essence of the individual is repression of the self.”

Freud discovered the importance of repression when he discovered the meaning of the “mad” symptoms of the mentally deranged, plus the meaning of dreams, and thirdly the everyday happenings regarded as slips of the tongue, errors, and random thoughts. He concludes that dreams, mental derangements, and common every day errors (Freudian slips) have meaningful causes that can be explained. Meaningful is the key word here.

Since these psychic phenomena are unconscious we must accept that we have motivation to action with a purpose for which we are unconscious (involuntary purposes). This inner nature of which we are completely unaware leads to Freud’s definition of psychoanalysis as “nothing more than the discovery of the unconscious in mental life.”

Freud discovered that sapiens have unconscious causes which are hidden from her because they are disowned and hidden by the conscious self. The dynamic relationship between the unconscious and conscious life is a constant battle and psychoanalysis is a science of this mental conflict.

The rejection of an idea which is one’s very own and remains so is repression. The essence of repression is in the fact that the individual refuses to recognize this reality of her very own nature. This nature becomes evident when it erupts into consciousness only in dreams or neurotic symptoms or by slips of the tongue.

The unconscious is illuminated only when it is being repressed by the conscious mind. It is a process of psychic conflict. “We obtain our theory of the unconscious from the theory of repression.” Freud’s hypothesis of the repressed unconscious results from the conclusion that it is common to all humans. This is a phenomenon of everyday life; neurosis is common to all humans.

Dreams are normal phenomena and being that the structure of dreams is common to neurotics and normal people the dream is also neurotic. “Between “normality” and “abnormality” there is no qualitative but only quantitative difference, based largely on the practical question of whether our neurosis is serious enough to incapacitate us for work…the doctrine of the universal neurosis of mankind is the psychoanalytical analogue of the theological doctrine of original sin.”

Quotes from “Life against Death: The Psychoanalytical Meaning of History” Norman O. Brown

The Atheist
07-06-2009, 03:18 PM
Are we all neurotic?

My reading tells me that we are all neurotic and some of us are so neurotic that we cannot function satisfactorily in normal society and are then considered to be mentally ill.

Isn't that blown apart by the known chemical imbalances which cause the neuroses in the mentally ill?

MarkBastable
07-06-2009, 05:28 PM
You can only identify neurosis in terms of its difference from the practical norm. Without a norm, there's no neurosis. So, no, we're not all neurotic, because if we were that would be the norm so none of us would be.

amarna
07-06-2009, 05:34 PM
Are we all neurotic?

My reading tells me that we are all neurotic and some of us are so neurotic that we cannot function satisfactorily in normal society and are then considered to be mentally ill.

Sounds like a conspiracy of the pharmaceutical industry to sell us Haldol... :D

Recommend: Foucault: Madness and Civilization (http://www.amazon.com/Madness-Civilization-History-Insanity-Reason/dp/067972110X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246916963&sr=8-2)




.

libernaut
07-06-2009, 10:06 PM
also it follows that if insanity becomes the norm than sanity is actually what is insane. because insanity is now the norm

amarna
07-07-2009, 05:24 AM
also it follows that if insanity becomes the norm than sanity is actually what is insane. because insanity is now the norm

Jepp. In communist countries lots of humanists and democrats were regarded as mad and therefore populating the funny farms.

coberst
07-07-2009, 01:33 PM
Isn't that blown apart by the known chemical imbalances which cause the neuroses in the mentally ill?

I suppose that the chemical imbalances that you speak of are caused by repression; just as fear can cause chemical imbalances. We have learned how to combat chemical with chemical rather tan understanding the cause of the imbalance and solving the problem at the source. Technology is king.

billl
07-07-2009, 10:58 PM
...We have learned how to combat chemical with chemical rather tan understanding the cause of the imbalance and solving the problem at the source. Technology is king.

Does anybody around this forum think it would be OK if technology (probably drugs/chemicals, maybe physical implants) were to make everybody simply tolerate all of their problems?

The Atheist
07-07-2009, 11:43 PM
I suppose that the chemical imbalances that you speak of are caused by repression; just as fear can cause chemical imbalances. We have learned how to combat chemical with chemical rather tan understanding the cause of the imbalance and solving the problem at the source. Technology is king.

You may be right - it's all a bit chicken/egg, although no doubt the autists' parents will blame genetics, which takes out the social factors.


Does anybody around this forum think it would be OK if technology (probably drugs/chemicals, maybe physical implants) were to make everybody simply tolerate all of their problems?

Absolutely. Not a popular idea, but I'll be implementing just this once the takeover's complere.

billl
07-07-2009, 11:51 PM
Brings a whole new meaning to "changing one's mind."

The Atheist
07-08-2009, 12:11 AM
Brings a whole new meaning to "changing one's mind."

:D

You could say that.

I just think that if there were a drug/chemical which would remove all the mental anguish in the world, I'd be putting in your water.

coberst
07-08-2009, 09:12 AM
Does anybody around this forum think it would be OK if technology (probably drugs/chemicals, maybe physical implants) were to make everybody simply tolerate all of their problems?

I suspect that booze and drugs are often used to make like more tolerable. Also young people find that the use of drugs is fun. I suspect that this form of making life more tolerable was what caused MJ's death.

kurious
07-08-2009, 12:43 PM
I don't think Michael Jackson took drugs so he could have fun. I think he took drugs to not feel the pain of living in a world that was created by his success.

When he was performing he seemed to be in a special place where he could be at peace.

I enjoy reading all of your postings, and some of the books that have been mentioned are on my to buy list.

Buh4Bee
07-15-2009, 12:05 PM
You can only identify neurosis in terms of its difference from the practical norm. Without a norm, there's no neurosis. So, no, we're not all neurotic, because if we were that would be the norm so none of us would be.

I agree with this statement. There is a range of "normal" behavior and if you are say in the bottom 15% percentile than you maybe considered mentally ill. No, we are not all neurotic.

Mental imbalances can be caused by heredity or by stress from the environment. Although I agree with most people that pharmaceutical drugs can be bad if not prescribed correctly, they can be extremely necessary in bringing someone back from a psychotic episode.