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coberst
07-02-2009, 03:43 AM
Have you ever doubted anthropomorphic polytheism?

Those individuals who comprehend such things, in this case I am speaking of art historians in general and Alois Riegl in particular, inform me that the worldview of primitive wo/man at the very beginnings of human history was founded upon an infinite polytheism. That is to say that “everything in nature that moved, grew, and died without agency—or even against the will—of man seemed superior to him for its autonomy of existence and will. Everything in nature was therefore a god.”

At some crucial moment in human progress wo/man developed a more secure conception of her relationship with the world. When s/he began to confine their mutual perception to individual phenomena of nature that appeared to be the strongest and most frightening they became more assured of their power to prevail in many contests. “With that shift, we find ourselves standing in the very first period of history: the first opportunity has opened up to activate desired improvements of nature.”

This began a natural progression for humanity. As s/he recognized the ability to overcome the most ferocious and deadly of all animals wo/man came to recognize a degree of superiority over nature. “At the same time, he still had to acknowledge behind every natural phenomenon the presence of a driving, animating force far removed from human perception or control…A distinction yet unknown to primitive peoples, who ascribed an autonomous will to everything in nature.”

Wo/man recognized a dichotomy between that which they had some significant control to that which they could only reason to be underlying the appearance reached through human visual faculties. Humans recognized here the natural that could be readily perceived, but also recognized that there was much more that humans could only imagine but not perceive or control. S/he could only imagine these reasoned realities and naturally imagined them to be endowed with sensible human form; the only form imaginable at this time in human development.

“Only human form could appear worthy of a force superior to human beings. Thus was born anthropomorphic polytheism, which the Greeks would bring to its fullest perfection.” Henceforth we humans could envision those forces superior to our own must be envisioned as in human form but unencumbered by our shortcomings in matters of beauty and mortality.

Quotes from Historical Grammar of the Visual Arts by Alois Riegl

NikolaiI
07-02-2009, 03:48 AM
I think that we were able to manipulate our environment to a small degree long before we were conscious enough to think of things as being controlled by, or being, gods.

I wonder if any of this could be based on anything but speculation? We are discussing events of about ten million years ago, right?

coberst
07-02-2009, 03:29 PM
I think that we were able to manipulate our environment to a small degree long before we were conscious enough to think of things as being controlled by, or being, gods.

I wonder if any of this could be based on anything but speculation? We are discussing events of about ten million years ago, right?

No. We are discussing art that was begining to be created about 30,000 years ago. I do not think that anything before that time has been discovered.

NikolaiI
07-02-2009, 10:11 PM
No. We are discussing art that was begining to be created about 30,000 years ago. I do not think that anything before that time has been discovered.

I thought homo sapiens have been around for around 11,000 years. And I thought that sometime during this time they began to use basic tools. I am not greatly knowledgable in that area, and I am not for certain. But aren't you saying that before they began to use tools, they believed in polytheism, but sometime around when they began to use tools, they dropped their polytheism to a degree? How do you know?

coberst
07-03-2009, 01:57 AM
I thought homo sapiens have been around for around 11,000 years. And I thought that sometime during this time they began to use basic tools. I am not greatly knowledgable in that area, and I am not for certain. But aren't you saying that before they began to use tools, they believed in polytheism, but sometime around when they began to use tools, they dropped their polytheism to a degree? How do you know?

I think that the species homo sapiens originated about 4 million years ago and the first art that we have found was created about 35,000 years ago. Anthropology and art history studies such things.

NikolaiI
07-03-2009, 02:04 AM
I think that the species homo sapiens originated about 4 million years ago and the first art that we have found was created about 35,000 years ago. Anthropology and art history studies such things.

Right. Okay, I understand. I just am a bit skeptical of what anyone could really know about what we thought so far back.