The problem I have while writing....Kindly help me!

[Nikhar]

Hey everyone!

I have faced this problem so often and would really like to get it solved. Well, our native tongue is not english. So, I basically have problems in naming different nouns. I wonder if you understand. I'll try to explain further.

For example, suppose, according to my story, I am required to describe a huge villa. Now, the problem that I would have is that I wouldn't be able to describe the interior, or the floorplan or stuff.

Well, basically, suppose, there's an object, I know what its called in Hindi and if I want to include that object in my story, I would just keep wondering, "Hey, what's it called in English!"

A few days back, I didn't know what a porch was, or a courtyard and am still not very clear about different types of room and stuff.

Another example, suppose I want to describe a scenery. I wouldn't know how exactly to describe it. I wouldn't know what exactly does a chasm, a valley a gorge or an ebb means.

Well, I have read LOTR and it has a whole lot of scenic description and when I would read it, I wouldn't understand quite a lot of it. The storyline and the characters, that's all easy to understand. Only problem that I have is identifying the noun and visualize it. I can't visualize the noun, cause I don't know what it means.

I hope I have been able to explain my problem.

Can you please suggest how can I overcome these problems? Any help would be truly appreciated.

Btw, I would like to add some of the methods I have thought of using:-

Playing architectural games...like where I have to build houses and all, but I haven't exactly found that type of game. Can anyone suggest any game?

Can anyone propose a book that is rich in architectural and natural description and sketches?

Thanks in advance.

[billl]

well, i'm a native english speaker, and, just to begin, i want to say that i didn't always know what certain landscape terms meant when i read LOTR many years ago. some of what you might encounter in an older book might have fallen out of regular usage. and some landscape/nature terms might fall out of common usage, or be unknown to city dwellers, etc. for example, i don't know what a "vale" is, but i have never bothered to check a dictionary.

regarding other words, well, that's an interesting dilemma. Of course, just checking a dictionary has answered a lot of your questions, obviously. in addition to continuing that route, you might want to look into buying/borrowing some picture dictionaries. there's different ones to choose from, and different ones might cover different environments and associated nouns. however, those sorts of dictionaries are more "functional" than they are specific/literary, so you might still end up with some mysteries, or end up with some awkward word choices.

next, i'd suggest using google--it seems that you know some words, but are unsure about maybe some nuances or how they might be used. maybe you need more examples. so you can maybe type "ebb" into google, and see if some of the most popular hits teach you anything about how the word is used.

actually, i just tried that and got a lot of dictionary entries (with examples).

but i had better luck with searching "ebb vocabulary examples" and "poem ebb".

o well, sometimes googling works better--especially if you can search for a phrase. anyhow...

so, here's my advice:
1) dictionary (like you have been doing)
2) picture dictionaries
3) google

also, 4) relax, and just describe things using the english that you know. instead of saying "the tide ebbed" you could say "the tide moved out" or the tide "fell away" or "the tide retreated" and probably quite a few other formulations. depending on your facility with the vocabulary that you do already know, you might sound rather poetic. i know it's easy for me, and this piece of advice might seem useless, but i think, as a language learner, you know how it sometimes works just fine. of course, if this technique feels risky, you might actually end up writing something that sounds confusing or odd, and that would need editing or proofreading. still, many times, the best way is to just use what you know already.

that being said, i know that things aren't that simple, and that maybe, when all else fails, the only way to get some of that perfect-vocab-for-the-situation is by reading about landscapes or whatever (and taking notes when something new comes along) or asking someone on a case by case basis...

[Nikhar]

Firstly, I truly appreciate from the bottom of my heart the time you took to help me.:)


I really liked the idea of picture dictionaries. That could help a lot. Can you give me some examples of appropraite dictionaries.

I do google a lot to search about various terms but believe me, it's time consuming and the results are just about ok.


Well, loking into a dictionary has been one of the methods I have been frequently using. But again, sometimes, one does not get how exactly does something look.

Regarding your fourth advice, till date, that's the only option I have had and have been using.

Btw, I would like to add some of the methods I have thought of using:-

Playing architectural games...like where I have to build houses and all, but I haven't exactly found that type of game. Can you suggest anyone?

Can you propose a book that is rich in architectural and natural description and sketches?


And again, thanks one again.:)

[billl]

just wanted to reply real quick about the picture dictionaries--it'd be best if you could get to a bookstore and check them out before buying. the quality can vary (they are often used to teach children, but some are geared for adult ESL students, and while some might still cater to beginners (like kids) other ones might have some new and interesting vocab/illustrations for you.) ALSO, the kind of picture dictionary i meant to recommend is one in which each page or two might have just one or two drawings on it, and the drawings would be cunningly crafted to include as much vocab as possible regarding some particular environment (e.g. office, farm, shop, kitchen, etc.).

The best I've seen was the (Robert) Lado Picture Dictionary, but there are other ones. By the way, you know a lot of vocab, actually, so it might be impossible to find a picture dictionary that would add very much. it's hard to tell, that's why it'd be best if you could look them over first...

if i think of a book with a lot of architectural vocab, i'll add it to the thread.

thanks for the really nice 'thanks'! :)

[AuntShecky]

Way back "in the day" when I was substituting for ESOL teachers, I used to ask the students what was the most difficult thing about learning English. I thought that they would say it was grammar in general, or the irregular endings for verbs, or even the fact that English syntax hinges upon word order instead of inflected endings. Nope. Although all of the students told me that they thought learning English was extremely difficult, the worst part for them was the extensive vocabulary.

Just the other day I read in the newspaper (the old-fashioned print kind) that English has over two million words, with new ones added everyday. Not only are there numerous nouns and modifiers (adjectives, adverbs), just one word can have multiple meanings. So what is a blessing for native speakers can be a bane to those struggling to learn English.

To your problem though, which, I gather, involves difficulty in trying to come up with words to describe architectural features in your writing:

My question is, unless you are writing for a specific audience consisting of architects or engineers, why is description "required?" If you're writing a literary or a mainstream story, your readers won't know the exact term and though we always read "to learn something new," the usual motive for reading fiction is to be entertained, primarily.

Since fiction, especially short stories, thrives on economy of expression, the writer doesn't necessarily have to include lengthy descriptions of anything, villas or anything else. For instance, you wouldn't have to provide a detailed description of every tiny thread of fabric, but just a thumbnail swatch will inform us of what the whole cloth looks like.

In a story where setting is so important that it's almost a character, even then we don't need to have every square inch of the room reproduced. Just a few carefully-placed sentences and phrases is enough to tell us what the room is like. There are many examples of this: just off the top of my head I can think of "The Yellow Wallpaper" by Charlotte Perkins Gillman and Hemingway's "A Clean, Well-Lighted Place."

A few lines of skillfully-rendered dialogue would likewise give us a glimpse of what the character is like. We don't really need to know how tall he is, or how the sunlight bounces off his hair, or how much his eyes sparkle -- unless his height or hairdo or peepers are integral to the theme of the story.

Back to your original question, if you can't come up with the exact word you want to describe something, think of an analogy! That's what writers do, or at least the ones who disdain the use of clichés and prefer to come up with something new. For instance, Stanley Elkin in his religious satire, The Bitter End, describes Heaven as looking like a "theme park."

I don't know if all this will help or not, but in any case, I wish you best of luck in your writing efforts.

[Nikhar]

just wanted to reply real quick about the picture dictionaries--it'd be best if you could get to a bookstore and check them out before buying. the quality can vary (they are often used to teach children, but some are geared for adult ESL students, and while some might still cater to beginners (like kids) other ones might have some new and interesting vocab/illustrations for you.) ALSO, the kind of picture dictionary i meant to recommend is one in which each page or two might have just one or two drawings on it, and the drawings would be cunningly crafted to include as much vocab as possible regarding some particular environment (e.g. office, farm, shop, kitchen, etc.).

The best I've seen was the (Robert) Lado Picture Dictionary, but there are other ones. By the way, you know a lot of vocab, actually, so it might be impossible to find a picture dictionary that would add very much. it's hard to tell, that's why it'd be best if you could look them over first...

if i think of a book with a lot of architectural vocab, i'll add it to the thread.

thanks for the really nice 'thanks'!

Hmm...ok...thanks again!:)


Way back "in the day" when I was substituting for ESOL teachers, I used to ask the students what was the most difficult thing about learning English. I thought that they would say it was grammar in general, or the irregular endings for verbs, or even the fact that English syntax hinges upon word order instead of inflected endings. Nope. Although all of the students told me that they thought learning English was extremely difficult, the worst part for them was the extensive vocabulary.

Just the other day I read in the newspaper (the old-fashioned print kind) that English has over two million words, with new ones added everyday. Not only are there numerous nouns and modifiers (adjectives, adverbs), just one word can have multiple meanings. So what is a blessing for native speakers can be a bane to those struggling to learn English.

To your problem though, which, I gather, involves difficulty in trying to come up with words to describe architectural features in your writing:

My question is, unless you are writing for a specific audience consisting of architects or engineers, why is description "required?" If you're writing a literary or a mainstream story, your readers won't know the exact term and though we always read "to learn something new," the usual motive for reading fiction is to be entertained, primarily.

Since fiction, especially short stories, thrives on economy of expression, the writer doesn't necessarily have to include lengthy descriptions of anything, villas or anything else. For instance, you wouldn't have to provide a detailed description of every tiny thread of fabric, but just a thumbnail swatch will inform us of what the whole cloth looks like.

In a story where setting is so important that it's almost a character, even then we don't need to have every square inch of the room reproduced. Just a few carefully-placed sentences and phrases is enough to tell us what the room is like. There are many examples of this: just off the top of my head I can think of "The Yellow Wallpaper" by Charlotte Perkins Gillman and Hemingway's "A Clean, Well-Lighted Place."

A few lines of skillfully-rendered dialogue would likewise give us a glimpse of what the character is like. We don't really need to know how tall he is, or how the sunlight bounces off his hair, or how much his eyes sparkle -- unless his height or hairdo or peepers are integral to the theme of the story.

Back to your original question, if you can't come up with the exact word you want to describe something, think of an analogy! That's what writers do, or at least the ones who disdain the use of clichés and prefer to come up with something new. For instance, Stanley Elkin in his religious satire, The Bitter End, describes Heaven as looking like a "theme park."

I don't know if all this will help or not, but in any case, I wish you best of luck in your writing efforts.

Firstly, I truly appreciate the time you took to help me out. Sincerest thanks to you.:)

Secondly, well, I am not writing for engineers or architectures. I do aim at writing a mainstream fictional novel, a murder mystery, to be more precise. Well, while writing murder mysteries, I do think, that one does need to describe the tiniest of details, to sketch a plot, at least, it's necessary sometimes. One book, that I can remember, where the details come in handy is "Murder of Roger Ackroyd" by Agatha Christie (a classic!).

I am huge Agatha Christie fan and have read a lot of her novels, and more often than not, I have noticed how she has used different details. "Murder is Announced" is another novel that uses the description of a room to a great effect.

I hope, I have been able to throw some light on as to why I want to clear my problem.


Though, once again, a sincere thanks to you.:)

[billl]

just googled architectural vocabulary and got this:

http://www.buffaloah.com/a/DCTNRY/vocab.html

i checked porch and a few other things, and this looks pretty good. i imagine it'll help you at least a bit if you haven't checked it out already!

[Nikhar]

just googled architectural vocabulary and got this:

http://www.buffaloah.com/a/DCTNRY/vocab.html

i checked porch and a few other things, and this looks pretty good. i imagine it'll help you at least a bit if you haven't checked it out already!



Oh...it's wonderful, simply excellent. Thanks a ton!:)

[billl]

no problem, the links are all over the place, some of the photos are enough to inspire a new mystery even... :)

[billl]

just to save you time maybe, there's a linked FURNITURE section, too--who knows what else...

http://www.buffaloah.com/f/glos/index.html

[Sarasvati21]

This is probably a foolish suggestion, but I think it would help me if I had a similar problem--Nikhar, have you thought of getting a dollhouse? You could, perhaps, label the different rooms, or even try your hand at describing them. You could then put the descriptions in each room...
Silly suggestion...

[Nikhar]

This site's truly outstanding. Thanks a ton again!:D:)

[billl]

This is probably a foolish suggestion, but I think it would help me if I had a similar problem--Nikhar, have you thought of getting a dollhouse? You could, perhaps, label the different rooms, or even try your hand at describing them. You could then put the descriptions in each room...
Silly suggestion...

quote i can't remember who it was, but i remember once seeing an article about a famous author who drew up diagrams of the buildings in his stories, so that he could realistically describe how long it took to move from one room to another, could keep track of what might be possible/probable when people bumped into each other, and maybe even got some ideas about the story's action that way. a doll house or diagrams might help someone a lot, if they are going to spend a lot of time in a certain building during a novel...

[Nikhar]

This is probably a foolish suggestion, but I think it would help me if I had a similar problem--Nikhar, have you thought of getting a dollhouse? You could, perhaps, label the different rooms, or even try your hand at describing them. You could then put the descriptions in each room...
Silly suggestion...



Thanks for the advice. And no, it wasn't silly.

It was really good of you.:)

[billl]

saw this at the bookstore and thought of this thread.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Visual-Dictionary-DK-Publishing/dp/0789428741


well, i'll leave that first link up there, but this next one looks like the same book, but larger (i think they just shrank it for the first one i showed. and 5 x 6 inches seems way too small to show all detail and description! this second link is probably the one i saw in the bookstore at 8 x 9 inches).

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Visual-Dictionary-DK-Publishing/dp/0756626064/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246299729&sr=8-1

[Nikhar]

Thanks...I'll check the book out. :)

[Tammbrey]

Have you tried to use an on-line free translator? Type the Hindi word you know, and have it translate it to the English version. Use similar words, so you have a variety and pick the frequent one given.

Then refer to your dictionary.

[Nikhar]

Yeah, I have tied online translator but they aren't exactly acuurate.

Thanks anyways.

[bahaa1986]

A few lines of skillfully-rendered dialogue would likewise give us a glimpse of what the character is like. We don't really need to know how tall he is, or how the sunlight bounces off his hair, or how much his eyes sparkle -- unless his height or hairdo or peepers are integral to the theme of the story.

if you ask me my opinion , i would say " write these words by gold , and hang it over you desk . so every time you sit down to write , you see it " .

Personally - as not a native speaker - i suffer pretty much from the writers who insist on " showing up his language skills " which is quite boring for me . Cause writing isn't about language that much comparing to the " message " or " the meaning want to be transferred through the language .

But , i think it's not the writer problem as much it's mine in fact . but some times giving so much details about events or situations not even involve in the story - destroys the message , the writer want to deliver .