Literature with POSITIVE view on drugs (the argument from freedom)

[hampusforev]

Hey people,
I don't know if this thread might get shut down, because it's a rather controversial subject. If it will be shut down, I'd have to leave. I can't stand fear of ideas, and free speech, so I'll be gone if that's the case. Not saying it would be any great loss, but just to let you know.

Anyway, I'm writing an essay on drug prohibition, and my stance is fairly clear, I think we should abolish drug-prohibition. Not for any selfish reason mind you, I almost never smoke pot (just once or twice, and wasn't impressed), nor do I intend to use anything "stronger". My sentiment is entirely concerned with freedom, the freedom to do what you want to your body (same argument could be made for prostitution). It's just that simple. If the government tells you that some mental states are illegal, they're trespassing on your consciousness!

So, what I'm looking for are examples of pro-drug literature, or pro-freedom literature. Either explicit or implicit, and when I say "pro-drug" I don't necessarily mean that they end up president of the US in spite of being a coke-head (*cough* Bush *cough), but just literature that advocates freedom.

I know Candide deals with freedom over the state, and I intend to read it. Any suggestions?

Cheers

[Mr Endon]

The only untouchable topic is current politics, so I don't think you'll have a problem just because the topic is controversial (although you're really asking for trouble by mentioning GWB, and such an unnecessary comment, too!)

I've never come across literature on drugs, but maybe you'd benefit from Martha Nussbaum's Sex and Social Justice, where she defends gay rights and the legalisation of prostitution. Maybe you could work your way to drug use from there?

[hampusforev]

Yeah I guess the GWB comment was unnecessary, but he's not CURRENT politics is he? And come on, taking a jab at GWB is standard operating procedure now a days.

Yeah I guess I can take a look at that book, wouldn't hurt, right? I've read Naked Lunch and Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, which are at least accounts on how it is to be a junky.

[Mr Endon]

Ha, I know what you mean, nevertheless I know at least couple of users in this forum who'd get offended by that, so it's always better to tone it down before you post.

Had forgotten about Fear and Loathing, that's a nice idea.
I'd look into Jack Kerouac.
What about Keats's 'Ode to a Nightingale'?
Of course you can't cite a stand up performance in an essay, but you should probably get acquainted with Bill Hicks.

[hampusforev]

Oh I'm so glad you mentioned ol' Bill Hicks. Man I love him, listened to Rants in E-minor again and of course he's a great account. But even though he's my favorite comedian, the essay is on literature, so canonical literature would be the key. But I definitely think I could use his stand up pieces as a reference, not as a case and point, but as a quote.

[Alyoshka]

It probably isn't totally what you're looking for, but it sure is about drugs: Trainspotting by Irvine Welsh; it's brilliant! I wouldn't say it's against drug-prohibition, but it's a great novel about the effect drugs have on you and your life. If you're writing about drugs, that's no minor issue. It really made me think differently about drug addicts.

I second Keruoac. That's probably more what you're looking for, but I recommend Trainspotting as well.

[Mariamosis]

I am not sure of any pro-drug literature, however, there are a number of good magazines that provide personal testimonials, articles, political agendas, etc.. on such matters. Ex: High Times ( I can't remember any others... although there are tons... it's been a while since I worked in a head shop)

Although, many authors were on drugs when writing some of their better works...

Robert Louis Stevenson wrote 'The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde' while on cocaine and Thomas De Quincey wrote an account of being on opium in 'Confessions of an English Opium Eater'. I don't know if this helps any....

[The Comedian]

Here's something different for you: Try Alan Moore's run on the Swamp Thing comic series. Excellent reading and it offers a different, but positive spin on drugs.

Good Hunting!

[amarna]

"Artificial Paradises" by Baudelaire.

[hampusforev]

Thank you everybody. I know drugs can totally screw up lives, just like the Beatles, heavy metal and internet porn can do (yes I know of examples of all three). But ultimately it's an issue of freedom, which is why I'm speaking against prohibition. I'd like to provide some great authors who wrote about drugs, not that it adds anything in terms of argument, but just for reference.

[AuntShecky]

Aldous Huxley wrote about LSD long before the late sixties, when it was in the news. Sorry, but I can't remember the title of Huxley's specific novel about drugs.

[PeterL]

Anything by the Beats would fit. Huxley's Brave new World Revisited and The Doors of Perception. De Quincey has been mentioned. Some of the Sherlock Holmes stories mention Holmes' use of cocaine and his defense of it against the discouragement by Watson. There have been a fair number of books published that made surveys of such literature, but I can't remember titles.

[Lokasenna]

Wilkie Collins' The Moonstone takes a very interesting view on the uses, both positive and negative, of opium consumption.

[Wilde woman]

Allen Ginsberg's long poem, Howl, jumps to mind.

[hampusforev]

Yeah I love Howl, I know there's a lot of Ginsberg-bashing going on at times, but the angel headed hipster and the starry dynamo in the sky proves that he can write that old hippy.

[kelby_lake]

Thank you everybody. I know drugs can totally screw up lives, just like the Beatles, heavy metal and internet porn can do (yes I know of examples of all three). But ultimately it's an issue of freedom, which is why I'm speaking against prohibition. I'd like to provide some great authors who wrote about drugs, not that it adds anything in terms of argument, but just for reference.

Don't be silly. They have to get drugs from somewhere. Unless you propose to put them in supermarkets, there's going to still be people thinking they can sell tablets which have god-knows-what in to people who don't know any better. What about the poor person's family? It's a totally selfish argument to say you have the right to destroy yourself, because it's not just about you.

You might like Artaud:
It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must from time to time be present.
Antonin Artaud

[Mariamosis]

Don't be silly. They have to get drugs from somewhere. Unless you propose to put them in supermarkets, there's going to still be people thinking they can sell tablets which have god-knows-what in to people who don't know any better. What about the poor person's family? It's a totally selfish argument to say you have the right to destroy yourself, because it's not just about you.


What about the United States alcohol prohibition of the early 1900's?

Illegal production of alcohol became uncontrollable and not to mention dangerous. Bootlegging led to racketeering until the repeal of the prohibition in the 1930's.

How many times do you see someone on the street selling illegal alcohol? I am sure it exists, but I have never come across a single case.

I am not saying ALL drugs should be legalized, but our prisons are overflowing with petty drug criminals, and drug criminals whom we are all paying taxes on in order to support.

I have talked extensively with people whose lives are ruined due to drugs, and people whose lives have been saved due to drugs.

Okay I am done whining now :), but where do we draw the line?
But ....ahem... yeah, books....

[kelby_lake]

What about the United States alcohol prohibition of the early 1900's?

Illegal production of alcohol became uncontrollable and not to mention dangerous. Bootlegging led to racketeering until the repeal of the prohibition in the 1930's.

How many times do you see someone on the street selling illegal alcohol? I am sure it exists, but I have never come across a single case.


Alcohol is an entirely different matter. It is only the over-consumption of that that is dangerous- one drug pill can be enough to kill you.

[hampusforev]

Alcohol is an entirely different matter. It is only the over-consumption of that that is dangerous- one drug pill can be enough to kill you.

It's pretty obvious that you know nothing about drugs. In 2007 scientists heeded for a reclassification of drugs, and alcohol and tobacco is more dangerous than ecstasy, LSD, amphetamine and cannabis.
Not to say that they don't have any dangers to them, but having them illegal just simply doesn't work. Read LEAP's (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition) statement about first hand account with prohibition, it doesn't work. It fuels the black market which isn't exactly known for human decency, and the prices sky-rocket because some people have such high addiction rate that they'll do anything for heroin. Locking them up DOESN'T work.

Of course you could still get pills and drugs from the black market, just like some people brew their own alcohol, but it would decrease significantly. The comparison with US alcohol prohibition is pretty accurate, when alcohol became illegal, murders and deaths irrupted, and when they reinstated alcohol the mobsters shrunk in power, quite drastically at that.

People are going to use drugs, stop hiding from that. Regulating them is the only way. It's safer, it could help the economy, and it's not a mockery of personal choice.

Of course it's selfish! I don't condone it, but freedom might lead to selfish behaviour. I don't see your argument, just because someone is selfish towards their family you should lock them up? It's a private issue which they should deal with themselves. You're basically playing the emotional card, of course I feel bad for the families who were destroyed by drugs, but the present solution doesn't work.

[Veva]

It probably isn't totally what you're looking for, but it sure is about drugs: Trainspotting by Irvine Welsh; it's brilliant! I wouldn't say it's against drug-prohibition, but it's a great novel about the effect drugs have on you and your life.

After reading and later watching it... it had made me stop experimenting. Definitely, it had a little positive view on drugs but put me off anyway.

[Mariamosis]

Alcohol is an entirely different matter. It is only the over-consumption of that that is dangerous- one drug pill can be enough to kill you.

This site has a little more information on the subject in case anyone is interested.
http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/

and now to help Brian Bean:
This issue could probably be discussed more in the Serious Discussions Forum.:)

To get back on topic... I believe Oscar Wilde also made mention of opium use in 'The Picture of Dorian Gray'

[PeterL]

Assertions regarding to the dangers of various intoxicants are not relevant to this topic. The effects of different chemicals are different for different people. What would not be noticed by one person would be an extremely strong intoxicant to another, and what might give a mild high to one person would make another insane. De Quincey didn't mention great pains of withdrawal when he stopped taking opium after more than twenty years; he mentioned having a cold that lasted a month, as if he had saved up all of the colds that he hadn't gotten while using opium.

[Mariamosis]

The effects of different chemicals are different for different people. What would not be noticed by one person would be an extremely strong intoxicant to another, and what might give a mild high to one person would make another insane.

There is no dispute regarding this statement and Dr. Ronald Siegel wrote a great book which relates various accounts of cocaine use and the paranoia that is attributed to its abuse. It is entitled: 'Whispers: The Voices of Paranoia'

[JacobF]

Aldous Huxley wrote about LSD long before the late sixties, when it was in the news. Sorry, but I can't remember the title of Huxley's specific novel about drugs.

The Doors of Perception. Huxley was a strong advocate of LSD and believed that, when taken, it can reveal new planes of consciousness. Definitely a must-read for anyone interested in that topic. I'd also recommend Huxley's Brave New World because it explores the theme of a society which accepts (and to an extent is dependent on) drug use.

[PeterL]

There is no dispute regarding this statement and Dr. Ronald Siegel wrote a great book which relates various accounts of cocaine use and the paranoia that is attributed to its abuse. It is entitled: 'Whispers: The Voices of Paranoia'

My observation has been that people become more self-centered and somewhat nasty when they take coke, but CNS stimulants seems to encourage paranoia in many people. For me that's an example of a drug that does nothing at all to some people.

[Trystan]

Try 'Junky' by William S. Burroughs. It's a very honest description of junk addiction in which Burroughs presents all the positives and the negatives of being an addict. The junk withdrawal, the euphoric kick, the crime, the jail, the rehab clinic, getting the habit, kicking the habit, getting it again . . . it's all there in the book. Some people say they try drugs after reading it (though for me, it had the opposite effect - though I do, like Burroughs did, support drug legalisation).

[Trystan]

Don't be silly. They have to get drugs from somewhere. Unless you propose to put them in supermarkets, there's going to still be people thinking they can sell tablets which have god-knows-what in to people who don't know any better. What about the poor person's family? It's a totally selfish argument to say you have the right to destroy yourself, because it's not just about you.

You might like Artaud:
It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must from time to time be present.
Antonin Artaud

If people can't destroy themselves, then they're slaves, just like if they can't have freedom of movement, can't improve themselves by education, can't be with certain people or say certain things etc. etc.. Basically, the government says: you will not use drugs in the privacy of your own home, or we'll lock you up. War on drugs = war on freedom.

What is it that the Americans say?

"Don't tred on me"



Of course you could still get pills and drugs from the black market, just like some people brew their own alcohol, but it would decrease significantly. The comparison with US alcohol prohibition is pretty accurate, when alcohol became illegal, murders and deaths irrupted, and when they reinstated alcohol the mobsters shrunk in power, quite drastically at that.



Precisely.

[Desolation]

Look up Timothy Leary.

[blp]

Have you seen The Wire? TV series, not a novel, obviously, but part of the intent is a damning indictment of the war on drugs. Not that it's pro-drugs. I believe some of the writers who worked on it are also novelists writing about similar subjects, so you could look up some of their books.

On a completely different tack, there are the Carlos Castaneda books, The Teachings of Don Juan and its sequels, in which the author describes (totally made up) experiences of meeting a Mexican shaman and being conducted, via hallucinogens, through various visionary experiences.

Surprised no one's mentioned Hunter S. Thompson. It gets pretty hairy for him at times, but he never ever comes down on the side of opposing drug use. 'I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.' Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas would be the apotheosis of this creed. A must-read classic, in my view.

You could also try Jean Cocteau's Opium.

EDIT: Oh, I see, yes, you did mention Thompson. Oh well.

[k.brignell]

hey, it's not exactly 'literature' but I recently read High Society by Ben Elton, and though it doesn't really approve of drugs in so many words, it does put forward
compelling arguments for why drug use should be made legal.

[kelby_lake]

If people can't destroy themselves, then they're slaves, just like if they can't have freedom of movement, can't improve themselves by education, can't be with certain people or say certain things etc. etc.. Basically, the government says: you will not use drugs in the privacy of your own home, or we'll lock you up. War on drugs = war on freedom.

What is it that the Americans say?

"Don't tred on me"


If we had total freedom, there'd be anarchy. Should we allow people's 'freedom' to murder someone they don't like? Some people don't know what to do with freedom

People's mindset- legal=okay. Yes, it might help junkies but what about people experimenting?

You are free to do drugs- it's just that there's a consequence if you do. If you want to risk it, you can.


Order without liberty and liberty without order are equally destructive. ~Theodore Roosevelt

[Mariamosis]

If we had total freedom, there'd be anarchy. Should we allow people's 'freedom' to murder someone they don't like? Some people don't know what to do with freedom

People's mindset- legal=okay. Yes, it might help junkies but what about people experimenting?

You are free to do drugs- it's just that there's a consequence if you do. If you want to risk it, you can.


Order without liberty and liberty without order are equally destructive. ~Theodore Roosevelt

"What we have to remember is that not everything is under our control. If people are free in any meaningful sense of the word, that means they are at liberty to foul up their lives as much as make something grand of them. That's a gamble we all take. That's the risk of liberty. Nobody wants others to screw up their lives, but each must be free to do so for themselves." - Joel Miller

(his book is 'Bad Trip: How the War against Drugs Is Destroying America')

[Mr Endon]

I hereby declare kelby lake's victory due to Godwin's law (joking!).

Seriously, though, you should probably continue this very interesting discussion in a thread I've just started in the "Serious Discussions" section for that effect: http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44701

[Mariamosis]

I hereby declare kelby lake's victory due to Godwin's law (joking!).

Seriously, though, you should probably continue this very interesting discussion in a thread I've just started in the "Serious Discussions" section for that effect: http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44701

:lol:
I will direct my comments there from now on. :) Thanks!

[hampusforev]

Yes, I'll answer kelby there aswell.

OT: Thank you for all your suggetions, I'll write my speech today and incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible.

[Trystan]

Should we allow people's 'freedom' to murder someone they don't like?


Obviously not, since that would take away the murdered person's freedom. Duh.

[kelby_lake]

Then that's conditional freedom. You aren't free to take freedom, therefore you aren't entirely free. Complete freedom does not obey morals.

It's not that I think we should just leave society's drug punishments how they are, but I don't agree with the 'argument from freedom'. What sort of people are we if we allow others to get to the stage when they feel they have to destroy themselves?

[Mr Endon]

kelby lake, we need you here:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44701

!

[valleyjune]

What about any of Robin's books? "Even cowgirls get the blues" for example?

[Maida]

I realize this thread was started in 2008, but maybe Rick Moody's Garden State? He writes a lot about suburban kids and their use of drugs, and while he doesn't condone it, he doesn't condemn it either.

[virginiawang]

I would suggest those who are interested in reading something about drugs to try Thomas De Quincey's Confession of an English Opium Eater, which is one of the most fascinating books I've ever read. The author wrote about his own experience in eating opium, the dreams he made during the time he ate it, and the feelings opium had aroused in him. He also gave a true account of his love for a girl, whom he missed throughout his life. I was captivated by the book when I almost graduated from college, and that left a deep impression upon me.