Why do you need God?

[blazeofglory]

We are natural beings, and all we can sense is nature and God is beyond nature or is supernatural. As a matter of fact God has nothing to do with day-today affairs. And we all are bound to worldly things, and otherworldliness is beyond our comprehension.

Why do we worship God? Without worshiping God will still be with us. As God is a father figure and as such he does not depict a shade of partiality towards his children just because they pray or do not pray. Fathers forgive children those who engage in culpable things.

I think we must change our course of life, and religions must transform our thoughts, words and actions. If religions do not transform us and our attachment to religions or spiritualities do not help us behave differently through philanthropic predilections or altruistic leanings we are nowhere religiously and spiritually.

Give reasons why you need God?

[NikolaiI]

In order to elaborate Vivekananda and Gandhi’s belief that religion was a positive and elevating force and Hinduism was nothing but spiritual secularism, it would be best to let them speak for themselves. Dr S Radhakrishnan, in connection with his study of religion, posed three questions to Gandhi. These questions were : “What is your religion? How are you led to it? What is its bearing on social life?”

Gandhi replied the first question thus: “My religion is Hinduism which, for me, is the religion of humanity and includes the best of all religions known to me.” In response to the second question, Gandhi said: “I take it that the present tense in this question has been purposely used, instead of the past. I am led to my religion through truth and non-violence. I often describe my religion as religion of truth. Of late, instead of saying God is truth, I have been saying, truth is God... Denial of truth we have not known... We are all sparks of truth. The sum total of these sparks is indescribable, as yet unknown truth, which is God. I am daily led nearer to it by constant prayer”.


http://www.hvk.org/articles/0203/134.html

I thought this was a nice answer to begin the discussion with.

[Scheherazade]

Everyone needs someone to blame for their shortcomings, failures and bad luck.

[lupe]

Oh no.....There we go again !!!!!!:crash:

[Nightshade]

Well I dont think everyone feels they do need God, now do they?
Why do I need God, personally, at the risk of sounding daft and trite, for me God gives meaning to my life and the Universe, and I am comfortable with the type of order of the universe *shrugs*

[La Amistad]

Everyone needs someone to blame for their shortcomings, failures and bad luck.

:thumbs_up i guess.

[NikolaiI]

What Gandhi means, or another way to say this, is that the Divine is the Over-Soul. We are all parts and parcels of the Divine, only we are scattered into individuals, but the individual sparks, the spiritual sparks, are part of the whole, and division is illusion. We are not parts with some separate existence; no, we are parts of the whole. What "God" is is that Divine Being, the Complete Whole. God is perfect, and infinite. If we can't comprehend the infinite, that is fine. God only exists to us as our best idea of perfection and infinity. God is the Whole.

[Bark]

God is our man in the mirror. It is easy to expect God to do things, answer prayer, things like that. But he won't. You are on your own. What happens happens. Providence, fate, etc. are fairly bogus. If every action has a ripple effect and all things happen for a reason, then the number of possibilities in fate and what the determination relies upon is basically infinite to the infinite degree. Even if there is a God ordered logic to the sequences that happen in the ripple assumption and fate, it is so far beyond us it is ridiculous.

God is the man in the mirror. The golden rule, "do unto others..." Mark Twain told of a prayer meeting where a town prayed for victory in war. An angel reported what God heard. He said that God heard the town say, make sure you kill them all, sew their fields with the blood of their youth, leave women orphans and invalids with no men, etc...

What we ask for is one sided. We should seek to make sure our desire does not injure another. As long as this is accomplished we are following the rule. View it via negitiva, see it as if you were issuing the command 'do' After all, they are the words of God, God is personal and in us all. Man speaks the word of God. Gods voice would kill us remember. If one can issue a command like that, can he not but follow it?

This is why we need God. God gives us an unimpeachable source of right when he is understood. When the speaker understands God it is fairly clear when he can appeal to a wide diversity of faiths. God can. We can speak his words, and record them as we always have. We need God because he gives authority through self confidence.

I know that is jumbled as hell, sorry.

[subterranean]

Because I need the holidays.

[breathtest]

Fear.

[Buh4Bee]

I have been asked some many times why do I need God? The answer is, I do not know. I was raised this way and have always believed and have struggled horribly with my faith. The relationship with the divine can be personal these days. But most often you feel alone and cannot hear a response in the dark. This is when the doubt is greatest for me. Waiting patiently, when God has already given me the answer that I don’t want to hear, is a mean trick. I wait for the reply that I do want to hear, but nothing happens. Fundamentally is God out there, I don’t know? This is why I have faith and this is why I try to live my life in the most honest way possible.

[subterranean]

The question basically leads me to think that god is somewhat a vending machine. As a matter of fact, it is very likely that the situation is the other away around, god needs me to fulfill his plans (whatever they may be). Otherwise why bother to have me in the first place.

[Bark]

I don't believe in a "need" per se. It should be a desire. When someone gives me a new shirt for my B-day, I say thank you. When someone gives me a buck so I can get on the bus when I'm short, I say thank you. But what has always given me solace in this world, I am a country boy stuck in a city, but nature always gives me solace. I can sit next to a river and forget the hell that life can be. I can climb rocks and concentrate to the extent of exclusion of the world. I love spring, and the flowers, and the smells, and who do I thank?

I know I am greatful for nature, but I can only think to thank an ineffable. But when I go from sad to happy, I feel divine. I feel like I should say thanks to someone. God seems to be what be handiest.

I think someday we will answer to something. I am lead to believe that it is our own conscience we will answer to, but when the time comes that someone or myself, will ask me to account for my life, I feel that the lessons of Jesus will give me the faith in my good name to stand tall and proud.

[ShoutGrace]

Everyone needs someone to blame for their shortcomings, failures and bad luck.


:thumbs_up i guess.

If what is being discussed here is blame and failure at a personal level, I find that scientific naturalism (being, to my mind, the most plausible form of atheism) does a much better job than theism in this regard.

On atheism, I am defined entirely by my genetic endowments and the physical stimuli that I receive. (It is partly considerations like these that lead most scientists to reject the notion of "free will.") I can blame nature and my surroundings for who I am, for it is these two factors entirely that define what kind of a biological organism I am and will be.

On certain forms of theism, however, I have a consciousness and an agentic will that is not entirely dependent on and determined by the physical world. I have something like a "soul" for which I am responsible. I can freely make moral choices and I determine, to whatever extent, certain causes. It seems to me that on this viewpoint, my life is what I make it, and I am responsible for my actions and constitution.


Because I need the holidays.


The question basically leads me to think that god is somewhat a vending machine.
Oh my, haven't we grown cynical? :D :D

I myself always try to guard against using God as a vending machine. If God exists, He doesn't exist to serve my needs or to make me feel better. God isn't a domesticable entity, pliable to my biases, which I can fit into a box and use when necessary. As C.S. Lewis said, "You must remember: Aslan is not a tame lion."

I too appreciate the holidays ;).


As a matter of fact, it is very likely that the situation is the other away around, god needs me to fulfill his plans (whatever they may be). Otherwise why bother to have me in the first place.

I have seen something like this in a different context:

1.) If God is Omnipotent, then He has no needs or wants.

2.) Creation shows that God has needs or wants.

3.) Therefore God is not Omnipotent.

Why should we think, however, that premise 2 is true? Aren't there other explanations?

Perhaps God bothered to have you because, out of His entirely loving and selfless nature, He recognized that to create you would be a mercy, and that to sustain a world around you filled with ripe, interesting, difficult, and profound things would fulfill the intellectual desires you possess as a genuinely free moral being; and that to create others to share in this wild, exploratory adventure would also answer the deepest urges and passions of your heart; a heart capable of love, fear, anger, despair and joy, ever moving in longing (though not necessarily in practice) towards the inexhaustible Source of all there is, even God, ultimately achieving pure bliss and utter fulfillment in an eternal reciprocal relationship with Himself.

[grotto]

No need to give a reason for needing for there is no “need”.

[Helga]

not everybody needs God. I don't.

[NikolaiI]

Perhaps God bothered to have you because, out of His entirely loving and selfless nature, He recognized that to create you would be a mercy, and that to sustain a world around you filled with ripe, interesting, difficult, and profound things would fulfill the intellectual desires you possess as a genuinely free moral being; and that to create others to share in this wild, exploratory adventure would also answer the deepest urges and passions of your heart; a heart capable of love, fear, anger, despair and joy, ever moving in longing (though not necessarily in practice) towards the inexhaustible Source of all there is, even God, ultimately achieving pure bliss and utter fulfillment in an eternal reciprocal relationship with Himself.

I agree with this fairy well... One thing I don't do is ask, "Why did got create us, why would he create us?" at least not, especially not, as an argument against the existence of God. We can't argue God into or out of existence. Either He exists, or He doesn't. I agree with you that He is the inexhaustible Source of existence. For me, also, we are part of God. Each of us is a spiritual spark, a soul, and God is the infinite, the Supreme. We are all parts and parcels of God.

But asking "Why would an omnipotent God create anything?", trying to use it as a proof against God's existence is not something I would do. The question is, what is God? Who am I? What is reality? If it turns out we can by some means answer these questions. For instance, as you say, ShoutGrace, if God is the source of all, as I would agree, then the question becomes how can we perceive Him? How can we realize Him?

That is my position, also, that God is the source; infinite, infinite bliss, peace, and so forth. All came from God and if all is transitory, then God is absolute. Why can't we see? We are conditioned by matter... It's the same reason we do not feel self-realized, enlightened. But to say that self-realization, enlightenment, do not exist, well, that is what most do anyway so everyone has to make up their own mind.

[backline]

I...The question is, what is God? Who am I? What is reality? If it turns out we can by some means answer these questions. For instance, as you say, ShoutGrace, if God is the source of all, as I would agree, then the question becomes how can we perceive Him? How can we realize Him?...


If I believe that God created all we can percieve of energy and matter in the universe, then when I view all creation I am looking at evidence of God.
Next I would say that God is inexplicable, ineffable. But if he inhabits his creation (he put himself into all parts of it: every rock, every form, even me) then truly the kingdom of god is within us.
It is by becoming aware of what is within me that I can perhaps realize god's creation and inhabitation within his creation.

[Ohmyscience]

Everytime I see these discussions, there are so many vareties of god that it becomes an arguement of definitions. There seems to be a lot of those believe god is great and all good but you have to realize the same god that creates is also the one that can toss a tsunami. If we are to attribute any kindness to that kind of diety lets not forget his wrath, which is quite cruel if you ask me. Which is why I do not believe. I just couldn't honestly tell someone who could lose someone so dear to them that there is an all powerful benevolent agent behind it.

[Monamy]

NikolaiI dear, loved your comment on this topic!

"Why would an omnipotent God create anything?"
I blieve we, as humans with very limited knowledge compared to Him, can't really put our finger on an answer to that question. All I can think of is how Satan, which was actually one of the angels before becoming the devil, didn't kneel to Adam for thinking that he was superior, thus being cursed by God.

Maybe all this life, all this creation and wide galaxy, is but a challenge between Him and Satan. I don't know, I could be wrong... In the Holy Qur'an, God said "إنّي أعلم ما لا تعلمون" to His angels right after He said that He'd create mankind, which translates as "I know what you know not." Just imagine, he said that to His angels, the angels that - when it comes to knowledge - are superior to mankind. So how come 'we' are trying to answer the question? We simply lack knowledge that only God has, and no one else!

Hope all that makes sense :)


Everytime I see these discussions, there are so many vareties of god that it becomes an arguement of definitions. There seems to be a lot of those believe god is great and all good but you have to realize the same god that creates is also the one that can toss a tsunami. If we are to attribute any kindness to that kind of diety lets not forget his wrath, which is quite cruel if you ask me. Which is why I do not believe. I just couldn't honestly tell someone who could lose someone so dear to them that there is an all powerful benevolent agent behind it.

Good thing you pointed that out! But then again, don't you think that part of humanity - specially this time and age we live in - are totally corrupted and made the lives of many a living hell? I agree with you that some of those 'natural' disasters are cruel and it tend to strike the innocents as well as the corrupted, but when God desides to end the life of things He does it swiftly so they won't feel pain. I believe those portions of innocent people die without even feeling the pain, and no matter how your dear ones die - natural disaster or killed or simply died of age - you'll feel ripping pain in your heart (yes, it's all the same, ask me!)

Death doesn't have to be always a bad thing (for I believe in the afterlife and The Judgement Day); God takes the lives of many innocents for His mercy, we however - the ones that are left behind in this life and can't really see the full picture - can't really judge Him; in the end, He has far better insight and judgement than us humans, we're His creation after all, right? ;)

[Whymsi]

If we are to attribute any kindness to that kind of diety lets not forget his wrath, which is quite cruel if you ask me. Which is why I do not believe. I just couldn't honestly tell someone who could lose someone so dear to them that there is an all powerful benevolent agent behind it.

I completely agree, Ohmyscience. This is one of my objections to the existence, or in any case the benevolence, of a god (in the traditional sense of the word.) In my mind, there is no way to justify the death of an innocent human being, and the statement that lives are taken for reasons that humans are incapable of understanding is not a good enough answer.

[NikolaiI]

Everytime I see these discussions, there are so many vareties of god that it becomes an arguement of definitions. There seems to be a lot of those believe god is great and all good but you have to realize the same god that creates is also the one that can toss a tsunami. If we are to attribute any kindness to that kind of diety lets not forget his wrath, which is quite cruel if you ask me. Which is why I do not believe. I just couldn't honestly tell someone who could lose someone so dear to them that there is an all powerful benevolent agent behind it.

I don't see it this way. I may disagree with someone, with Monamy or someone, about Satan or whatever, but I haven't had an argument about it for as long as I can remember. And arguments should never come into it, as we are discussing something which is personal to everyone involved. Belief in God is more personal than anything else.

And sure, there are different definitions. I have reasons for mine, and others have reasons for theirs. I do not, and will never, believe there is some sort of battle between Satan and God, but I won't argue about that for two reasons; one, it is not constructive in the least, and two; again, it is a personal thing.

My own view of God has several sides... one which is necessary is my understanding of the universe. The universe is non-dual, and we are part of it. I was just thinking this last night, I was just in meditation and some thought was sort of teasing me, but it slipped away. But it is just an expression of the fact that we are part of the universe. If you think about it, if we are part of everything, then we are part of everywhen, but despite that.

Second is that God is Being. God is the Absolute. All of this temporary, seemingly finite world is resting, resolving on God. God as Being is the source of every living entity. Being is within every living entity, as every living entity is one very small part of Being. That is what God is for me. Being, the Absolute, and the Source. It has nothing to do with angels or devils. And as to the existence of God, that requires stringent scrutiny. We have to be as doubting towards that as toward anything else.

But we still should search. If we can perceive God, through the science of Raja yoga for instance, then we should try to document it... even if the only way to perceive it comes from illumination.

Tragedies affect us; but should they make us broken?

Anyway, the idea of God for me is Being, and the Absolute, and the Source. We can't investigate that with physical science as it is. There is a science called Raja Yoga by which we can investigate. Physical science cannot investigate the mind, the soul, or the Absolute... The Absolute is beyond what physical science, even what speculative philosophy can really understand.

There is a good word, which I read explained the other day... the way some people pray to God and expect Him to answer their prayers, is really shopkeeping. As in, I will give God a prayer, and in return, God will give me some money, or a nice car. But that is shopkeeping. God obviously doesn't work that way.

Also, when I am going about my life, let's say, leading a superfluous or superficial life, God, the Absolute, is not going to manifest before me just to convert me. God is unchanging. God is the Absolute, greater than the whole universe, and eternal, the canvass on which the universe is painted, the souce, the root of reality. Such a One merely exists, and continues to exist. Why does God, why does Being, why does the Source, not stop it when one of us is about to befall disaster?

Well, that's not really the point. It's clear that the goal of life isn't to be saved no matter what whenever anything bad is going to happen. Life has good and bad. You say it precludes a God. I am telling you God is Being, all are rooted in God.

I'm sorry this was so long. To sum up, as every living being is within God, or Being, God is also within every living being. Since Being is the source, beneath all forms, beneath all layers, what we are, is the source, is Being. That's why God is called in Hinduism the Self. Just because physical science can't measure it, doesn't mean it's not real. It may not be real or it may be real. But the great sages of ancient and recent times have said this, that within every living being is the source, within which all the universe is contained. Beneath all layers, conditioning, and false identification, we are the source.

May all beings be happy,
May all beings be peaceful,
May all beings be blissful.

[billyjack]

Belief in God is more personal than anything else.

delusions fester better privately than publically, thats all that is

[NikolaiI]

delusions fester better privately than publically, thats all that is

how cruel of you to say...

[backline]

...There seems to be a lot of those believe god is great and all good but you have to realize the same god that creates is also the one that can toss a tsunami. If we are to attribute any kindness to that kind of diety lets not forget his wrath, which is quite cruel if you ask me. Which is why I do not believe. I just couldn't honestly tell someone who could lose someone so dear to them that there is an all powerful benevolent agent behind it.


Um, well having lost a son to lymphoma and now my wife of 33 years having been diagnosed with stage IV lung cancer, I can't speak for anyone else, and certainly don't intend to be an apologist for the Spanish Inquisition or any of the other usual suspects, but I have chosen to believe that beyond the god I hang in the sky there could be a God: though I find God ineffable and inexplicable.
It comes down to each person's conclusions.

I have my reasons for believing what I believe, despite the mess I've experienced I call "Life on life's terms."

What is, is what is. I apprehend "what is" my way, and try to keep an open mind about some telling experiences I have had that befuddle my sense that it's just all coincidence and perceived patterns.
The next person thinks I'm deluded: what that person thinks of me is none of my damn business.

[amarna]

I need him (her? it?) by poetical reasons. There's nothing more romantic than the view of village churches by midnight, illuminated by pale moonshine...

...Just kidding. I'm not interested in speculative ideas.

[tailor STATELY]

I am a child
of God.
He gave me life.
He gives me purpose...
And guides me, always.
I love Him...
And His love sustains
me through each
and every moment.
I long to return to
Him... in His time.

The Myrmidon

Witness
the myrmidon
not as
grazing sheep
but a love
of silent
service

12-10-2006

:tailor STATELY

[Brave Archer]

When I hear someone say to a parent that it was Gods will that their child was murdered, I wanna slap the hell out of them for talking so stupid.

Why would God create a murderer? Now, I do believe in God, but in the bible it states that man is responsible for his own decision. God is not some mastermind controlling man for his own twisted desires. People need to stop blaming God for there problems. If you've made a mistake, get off your *** and rectify it. Don't pray and sit down waiting for Him to "take care of it". God helps those that help themselves, take one step towards Him...... He doesn't make things worse, but I truly believe that if you show Him, and you put effort towards your goal, that he will help you in any situation.

Someone asked me once what if I was wrong, and God doesn't exist? I said I don't have any more proof of His existence than you have of Him not existing, and if i'm wrong then i've lost nothing. But, if he is real then i've gained everthing. I believe that when I pray to God to help my concentration when I write or am studying, that he is helping me concentrate. But, I would never ask God to write for me or stuff my brain with all the info I need for a test. Or stick a garbage bag full of cash outside my door. Read the story of Jesus being tempted in the desert.

Some people who question why God would make or let a person commit a crime miss the point of choice, and what the bible say's seperate us from his other creations.

[backline]

...Someone asked me once what if I was wrong, and God doesn't exist? I said I don't have any more proof of His existence than you have of Him not existing, and if i'm wrong then i've lost nothing. But, if he is real then i've gained everthing...


I believe that's called Pascal's Wager.
It's been examined by experts in logic and found wanting I think.
Nevertheless I have sometimes appreciated the comfort it offers some individuals.

[Brave Archer]

There are experts in Logic?

My feeling is a little different in that I refuse to try and explain why I believe in a higher power, with certain people who just want to argue as oppose to listening and understanding. I use to ask people how they knew he didn't exist as a retort, i've even explained why I believe what I do, and 9 times out of 10 the response, from whomever i'd be speaking with, would be well it just doesn't make sense to me. Well, most theories don't make sense, but someone spends money to try to convince others that theirs is right.

But, a personal belief is just a personal belief. Out of my friends, i'm the only one who believes, but we all respect one anothers opinon as opinions that have merit, maybe no value to me, but it does to them.

As you say, backline, I do get a certain comfort from feeling that no matter how despondent or lonely, I may feel, there is someone who cares. That was never my reason for believing in God, I didn't always believe, but it is does offer its comforts.

You know, we all aren't going to believe the same thing, no belief or science has been proven. They all have there flaws, some just don't want to think to hard about why God may exist, some Christians (and i'm not a Christian) are to weak minded to understand how science make sense to some.

The same way as scientist misuse science, christians misuse the bible. (side-story) I got into an argument with the bishop of my girlfriends church, I will never be a member of a church, but I have no problem attending. One day she let it slip that he told her because I wasn't a member of her church we were unequally yoked. Can you believe that, and the funny part is that I know he knew better and that pissed me off, so I confronted him in front of some of the other church members. I can't stand when people use the bible to further their own cause instead of Gods----let me stop, im already sidetracked.

[billl]

That's a good observation, Brave Archer, about how sometimes science and religion are misused. That's not the only thing driving the debates that happen, but it's a key factor, I'd say.

[Ohmyscience]

Some theories have been unfaltering for so long that most people accept as fact. I wouldn't say its proof but its damn good consistency. I wonder how many of us actually doubt energy and mass conservation. I could find many more who would doubt the story of Adam + Eve. I mean to really have the conviction to believe it physically happened like that. I'm not wanting to start a debate but there are just some absurd things in all the holy texts that no one in the 21st century would firmly believe. And if one begins to doubt some aspects then what is left of an infallible text?

[Brave Archer]

I think the biggest issue is with man, and not God. A lot of people who read the bible, and believe, think it is set in stone. And, a lot of people who don't pick certain passages and say "that couldn't happen like that", without either reading the entire bible, or without understanding that we all believe something that someone else doesn't agree with. It doesn't make someone stupid or dumb or ignorant because we believe different.

Now there are people who also ignore the fact that the bible has been used for centuries to serve the purposes of corrupt men. Slavery, murder, mind control (science has been used for these purposes as well), all on the basis of a book and a belief system that should be used to make man better.

Anything can be turned around, but this battle between science and religion is mind boggling, as if either can actually prove one way or another. It is all theory. Religion is theory, science is theory. It is all in the eye of the beholder, I believe that God is with me and everyone else. I also believe that (some) scientist are doing great work.

The bible doesn't tell us everything, and neither does science. I think, eventually, people will smarten up and understand that religion and science don't have to be in competition, they both can be used to teach.

And, to ohmyscience, while there are things written in the bible that are seen as absurd, so are a lot of "proven scientific theory". No one can prove how creation happened, it is all in what you believe. For instance, I believe in the creation in the bible, but I also know that there was something here before Adam, and that Adam wasn't here alone, the bible makes that clear.