O'Brien as a character

[Knirps]

Hi everyone!

I have a seminar on O'Brien, but O'Brien is such a weird character in the book, that i have mixed feelings about him and cant really describe him. What would you u guys suggest.

so far i thought of:

- Master Manipulator.
- Maintains Order in the society.

I need 4-5 traits with proof. Could you please help me out ?

[The Atheist]

Empathic - Winston wants to bare his soul to him.

Authoritarian - his way is always right.

Delusions of grandeur - O'Brien thinks that he and the other members of the Inner Party are god.

Amoral - he has no compunction in being the father figure, then switching to unspeakable torturer; he only acts for the good of the Party.

[Knirps]

Delusions of grandeur - O'Brien thinks that he and the other members of the Inner Party are god.

Thanks so much for your reply!

He thinks, or he believes that the party = God?...

So then what is his, "O'Brien's" point of view as an outlook on the party? Does he genuinely believe that its good? It seemed as if he did, but this phrase kinda threw me off: "they got me long time ago?" Its like They captured and brainwashed him when he was young, but to this date he disagrees with the party and its ideals.

Also, to which dictator could you connect O'Brien, if he must reflect the theme of being an "agent of order in the repressive regime"?

[Wilde woman]

So then what is his, "O'Brien's" point of view as an outlook on the party? Does he genuinely believe that its good? It seemed as if he did, but this phrase kinda threw me off: "they got me long time ago?" Its like They captured and brainwashed him when he was young, but to this date he disagrees with the party and its ideals.

I don't think we readers are ever told what O'Brien thinks. We're never allowed into his head, so this question is left ambiguous. I think that's another big character trait you can add to O'Brien - he is morally ambiguous and very mysterious. We're not given much information on him other than he was once rebellious but was caught and turned by the Party. Who knows? He could still be inwardly rebellious but hide it from the world, perhaps he despises himself for the work he does and finds himself a hypocrite, or maybe the brainwashing worked and he genuinely loves the the Party now.

One last to think about: You might want to try looking at O'Brien as a foil to Winston. Both characters once hated the Party, both tried to rebel, both failed. They're very similar. You might even see O'Brien as a precursor for what Winston will become. Or, if you don't believe that Winston's demise was inevitable, you could try to argue that Winston is somehow different from O'Brien.

Good luck!

[The Atheist]

I don't think we readers are ever told what O'Brien thinks. We're never allowed into his head, so this question is left ambiguous. I think that's another big character trait you can add to O'Brien - he is morally ambiguous and very mysterious.

I don't agree.

I think the real O'Brien is the one talking to Winston after capture. He has nothing to fear from being honest and I think his feelings as stated are entirely logical and in keeping with the stpry.

He uses doublethink perfectly, at once accepting the insanity of what he does, while recognising it as complete sanity in preservation of himself as part of the Party. He is embodied in it and therefore immortal. I see that as the true O'Brien.


We're not given much information on him other than he was once rebellious but was caught and turned by the Party.

No. You've mistaken something, because that is not the case. Are you mistaking O'Brien's answer to Winston when they meet in the MoL and W asks, "They got you too?" and O'B replies "They got me a long time ago."?

That's a metaphorical answer to the question, not an acknowledgement that he's been re-programmed. O'Brien's dogma is perfect.


Or, if you don't believe that Winston's demise was inevitable, you could try to argue that Winston is somehow different from O'Brien.

Good luck!

They are as different as could be - short answer: Winston was incapable of doublethink and O'Brien lives it.


Thanks so much for your reply!

He thinks, or he believes that the party = God?...

O'Brien clearly sees the Party as immortal - and Orwell does as well, more importantly - and as I just said above, by making the Party in his own image, O'Brien becomes immortal, which is as close to god as one can be - while still being part of the ruling clique.

Remember, the point of the Party's rule is absolute stagnation of everything except the perfection of the Party/State. Rooting out unorthodoxy is the only growth industry. It seems pretty clear to me that Orwell saw the proles and outer Party members simply becoming beasts of burden incapable of independent thought. As part of that, O'Brien and his work will live on.


So then what is his, "O'Brien's" point of view as an outlook on the party? Does he genuinely believe that its good? It seemed as if he did, but this phrase kinda threw me off: "they got me long time ago?" Its like They captured and brainwashed him when he was young, but to this date he disagrees with the party and its ideals.

Yep, and I suspect the other poster thought the same thing. Maybe it's an idiomatic thing, because that kind of phrase was in wide use and it just means that he didn't join last week. While the total reindoctrination would enable Winston to take on any job for the Party, the destruction of his brain was such that he would be useless in doing the work of an Inner Party member. His brain has been shattered and all he is capable of is mooching around. O'Brien, in comparison, is a vital, energetic man, in total control of his life and everything in it.

I think it's a given that O'Brien has always been in the Party. Given the indistinct timing, I think it's possible Orwell intended him to be one of the progenitors of the Party. He was clearly in charge of the operation to trap and change Winston and had been for many years, which I equate with a level of high power in the Party. He seems to have a really personal ownership in talking to Winston in the MoL, every "we" seems more of a royal we than a group one, if you get my drift. Along with that, his age appears consistent with a young firebrand in his early 20s at the time of the revolution.


Also, to which dictator could you connect O'Brien, if he must reflect the theme of being an "agent of order in the repressive regime"?

All of them!

:D

No, seriously - pick a horrendous dictator - Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, Idi Amin - you'll find bits of O'Brien in all of them. Be creative!

[Knirps]

Thank you so much for your responses !

I thought of various charactersitics, and whats common for figures such as O'Brien; most are extraordinary, but not to the point of insanity. Is there any way, in which O'Brien can be seen as a Genius?
I mean he is obviously a crazy man, his approaches to "cure" people are the best proof to that. But can he also be a Genius?

[Knirps]

ooops double post by accident

[The Atheist]

But can he also be a Genius?

Absolutely - we've been here a few times.

In terms of what he wants, he is a genius. He has every luxury known to mankind, unadulterated power over billions, and is establishing a permanent legacy to himself. Absolutely brilliant. Nasty, but true genius.

[bazarov]

Idi Amin - firstly I read it like Admin :lol:
Good work.