Congratulations, Carol Anne Duffy.

[prendrelemick]

Carol Anne Duffy, has been appointed Poet Laureate. The first woman to hold the post in the 341 years it has been going, (and the first Scot.)

The holder of this position traditionally recieves a barrel of sherry in payment for their services, but Andrew Motion says he's still waiting for his.:)

Although she is now taught at GCSE, I have never really seen much of her work. So if anyone has a favourite , post it here.

[TheFifthElement]

Yes, congrats to Carol-Ann.

I understand the choice was between her and Simon Armitage; either would have been a good choice.

Can't post due to copyright restrictions but if you get the chance check out either Rapture which is a fantastic collection of love poetry, or The World's Wife which tells tales of famous men from the perspective of their wives. The Icarus poem is really funny.

[wessexgirl]

Congratulations to her. I caught a bit of an interview with her last night, and she mentioned the work she'd like to do with schools, which is great.

I like her poem Warming her Pearls, (I think that's hers).

We will be having a new Childrens Laureate in June when the current one's tenure (Michael Rosen) comes to an end. I love his energy and enthusiasm, and hope we get someone as good. It may not necessarily be a poet though, as Rosen is, because we've had novelists before.

[meh!]

Michael Rosen is a novelist as well, at least I know he wrote Sad Book. I get what you mean though.

Duffy is really good, I imagine she'll be alright as a poet laureate. Hard to tell really. It'll certainly boost her already significant sales, haha.

[Pecksie]

I've been reading her poetry for a long time, and it's wonderful --- I think she was a very good choice.

It's also interesting to read Andrew Motion's comments on the less enjoyable obligations that come with the position of Poet Laureate --- i.e. writing poems for royal anniversaries, events, etc. Apparently they gave him a serious case of writer's block :( Like Ms Duffy herself said at some point, no self-respecting poet should have to do that --- IMHO it would be better if they just held a contest before these occasions, so that people who really want to write about them may send in their pieces and have the best among them selected. But then again, I guess it's all about tradition (like the 'butt of sack'), so... :)

[Michael T]

I think it's fantastic that both a woman, and a poet who's popular with children should be given the post. Excellent choice :thumbs_up :)

[JBI]

Unfortunately, in my estimation, she isn't the greatest of poets, and is more of an Ogden Nash type comic poet, which is a shame, since the post could have been given to someone a little bit more serious.

Lets hope she either writes better poetry, or abdicates soon. As it is, she turns the post into somewhat of a joke. Short comic verse children's poetry from the Poet Laureate - one must ask, is that how dry England has become recently?

Just my quibbles - perhaps she will surprise yet, but as it is, I think she'll join the history of the Poets Laureate of who people ask, "Who is that, and what good did they ever write."

AS for being the first woman, perhaps that is a step forward, but seriously, if it took this long, I don't think it particularly matters, but either way, I think the post of laureateship has become obsolete in England - I think England as a poetic force has become rather dry, but that isn't relevant. It's not as if choosing a woman is choosing a minority though - from what I know, Women make up around half the population, and there are just as many female poets as males.

Though I guess being a homosexual poet gives her a bit of an angle in terms of likely hood to be appointed. It's just a shame to me really, if the poet laureate promotes poetry, to have someone whose verse does so little service to poetry, and rather then moves forward into a new mode, is rather conservative, and childish, and feels better suited to the light verse of the 1960s.

But, then again, was Andrew Motion a better laureate? perhaps not - he isn't very good either. It would seem though, with the exception of perhaps Ted Hughes, who I don't particularly like, though have many friends who do, so perhaps that is idiosyncratic, everyone appointed since Robert Bridges seems to be a rather light, popular, yet somehow undeveloped poet. Masefield for instance, wrote like a child, and, considering the power of poetry around him, seems rather silly. Betjeman wrote popular, light mediocre verse, and Motion essentially followed suit. I think one needs to anticipate whose next, and I think, if Duffy abdicates soon, perhaps we'll see the likes of Wendy Cope, or some random television performer who scribbles third-rate limericks on napkins, and sells them to a children's audience.

Oops, it looks like I forgot Cecil Day-Lewis's brief tenure, but I think most of the world will sooner or later.

[wessexgirl]

Who would you have chosen?

I think you're being rather hard on her, and the many others who've had the post. Saying they've all been popular, light poets is surely the point. There's not going to be some indecipherable, adored-by-critics-but-unknown-by-the public poet in such a position. She's popular, and she's good. I don't think your comparison to some tv scribbler or limerick maker is very apt or fair.

[TheFifthElement]

I think you're being rather hard on her, and the many others who've had the post.
I agree. Though I'm sorry to say JBI that your opinion lost credibility for me when it criticised the state of English poetry and the relevance of the laureateship to England when writing about a Scottish poet ;)

[meh!]

Unfortunately, in my estimation, she isn't the greatest of poets, and is more of an Ogden Nash type comic poet, which is a shame, since the post could have been given to someone a little bit more serious.

Lets hope she either writes better poetry, or abdicates soon. As it is, she turns the post into somewhat of a joke. Short comic verse children's poetry from the Poet Laureate - one must ask, is that how dry England has become recently?

Just my quibbles - perhaps she will surprise yet, but as it is, I think she'll join the history of the Poets Laureate of who people ask, "Who is that, and what good did they ever write."

AS for being the first woman, perhaps that is a step forward, but seriously, if it took this long, I don't think it particularly matters, but either way, I think the post of laureateship has become obsolete in England - I think England as a poetic force has become rather dry, but that isn't relevant. It's not as if choosing a woman is choosing a minority though - from what I know, Women make up around half the population, and there are just as many female poets as males.

Though I guess being a homosexual poet gives her a bit of an angle in terms of likely hood to be appointed. It's just a shame to me really, if the poet laureate promotes poetry, to have someone whose verse does so little service to poetry, and rather then moves forward into a new mode, is rather conservative, and childish, and feels better suited to the light verse of the 1960s.

But, then again, was Andrew Motion a better laureate? perhaps not - he isn't very good either. It would seem though, with the exception of perhaps Ted Hughes, who I don't particularly like, though have many friends who do, so perhaps that is idiosyncratic, everyone appointed since Robert Bridges seems to be a rather light, popular, yet somehow undeveloped poet. Masefield for instance, wrote like a child, and, considering the power of poetry around him, seems rather silly. Betjeman wrote popular, light mediocre verse, and Motion essentially followed suit. I think one needs to anticipate whose next, and I think, if Duffy abdicates soon, perhaps we'll see the likes of Wendy Cope, or some random television performer who scribbles third-rate limericks on napkins, and sells them to a children's audience.

Oops, it looks like I forgot Cecil Day-Lewis's brief tenure, but I think most of the world will sooner or later.

Some of her verse is indeed funny, but it's silly to dismiss her as a 'comic' poet. She's a deeply serious poet, I would recommend you read her collection Rapture. If you still think she's a 'joke' (or have already read it) then there you go. Though, I don't know if anything will be able to convince you that she's not a good poet :p:

Pedantic point: she's the UK's poet Laureate, not England's (it simply seems relevant given her nationality).

It is also, frankly, bizarre to say that 'england' (by which I assume you mean UK) has dried up as a poetic force. What does that mean? There are so many good poets around, new and old. You seem to be harking back to some golden age that doesn't exist.

[JBI]

She is so much more England's poet Laureate than the UKs, I can't see many Scottish people really caring. I don't know about the North Irish, or the Welsh, but I just can't picture Scottish people particularly caring about her appointment. They all seem to be from England, with the exception of Cecil Day-Lewis, who was born in Ireland, though raised in London from the age of 2.

[wessexgirl]

She is so much more England's poet Laureate than the UKs, I can't see many Scottish people really caring. I don't know about the North Irish, or the Welsh, but I just can't picture Scottish people particularly caring about her appointment. They all seem to be from England, with the exception of Cecil Day-Lewis, who was born in Ireland, though raised in London from the age of 2.

Why would the Scots not care about her appointment? That's a massive assumption on your part. Those who are interested in poetry will care, wherever they're from in the UK.

[JBI]

Why would the Scots not care about her appointment? That's a massive assumption on your part. Those who are interested in poetry will care, wherever they're from in the UK.

From what I understand, they have their own poet laurel poet, Edwin Morgon, would carry a larger significance than a post that has, from my understanding, never been particularly Scottish. But then again, perhaps Duffy being originally from Scotland (living there until she was 4) may cause somewhat of a connection - I doubt it though. But perhaps I am just generalizing, and if I come off as offensive, forgive my ignorance.

[meh!]

I think you're pretty much right there. I wouldn't really have realised she was scottish if someone hadn't pointed it to be honest. Also, she seems to be taught in English schools (she isn't in scotland) so i imagine she is much more popular in England. Edwin Morgan is far, far better than Duffy (in my opinion) but oh well.

I prefer the post of Makar also because it's not related to the royalty.

That said, i'm still supportive of her as poet laureate just because I think a popular poet is what the laureate needs to be.

I'm agree with you know, what are the chances.

[Jozanny]

I have no brief in this controversy, as I am an obscure American poet with a still decent record of published appearances, and can care less about the blessings of official sanction, but this is from Slate's blog. The astute among you can find the site on your own:


Poet(ess) Laureates
Posted Monday, May 04, 2009 3:59 PM | By Meghan O'Rourke


As of Friday, Britain has its first female poet laureate: Carol Ann Duffy. She is a writer who favors plain language arranged "complexly" rather than what she has called "Seamus Heaney words" like "plash." She is also openly bisexual and much has been made of that in the press. Coincidentally or not, America's poet laureate, Kay Ryan, is a gay woman who favors plain language arranged complexly too. Women are coming into their own, it would seem; just this weekend, I was talking with a poet friend who felt very powerfully that women were about to become a major part of the next generation of poetry here and abroad; she's a teacher, and she felt the power and range of her female students was extraordinary and, somehow, new.

Britain's poet laureates hold the job for a term of 10 years, unlike American poet laureates. They also have to write poems to honor royal occasions, unlike American poets. It'll be interesting to see what Duffy, with her slyness, does with those moments. Here's a poem of hers called "Words, Wide Night":

[JBI]

I think many female poets would take a great deal of offense from the above clipping - as if a State sanctioned position is somehow fundamental to the way they express identity. Emily Dickinson didn't need a laureateship, and I think such a statement cheapens the tradition - it, I would argue, merely appropriates women's writing under the banner of "The new in" as if it had not existed before this.

I don't know though - there always have been as many good female Canadian poets as male ones - in truth, the bulk of the major works of Canadian literature seem to be dominated by women, even from the very beginning.

As for the United States, well, there was, from the Romantic Period onward I would think, somewhat of a prevalent movement in women's writing. H. D. for instance, Amy Lowell, Edna St. Vincent Millay, etc. all had a direct influence in the beginning. To say then, that now finally, since the State approves about them, that these poets are gaining credibility is ridiculous. Half of the scholarship from the 70s onward would disagree with such nonsense. Quite simply, Bisexual women's writers worked hard to be read as female bisexual writers long before Carol Ann Duffy, or Kay Ryan, and I think by creating this myth of how finally there is a tradition being formed is quite a slap in the face to those who came before.

So for England then, one questions if, politically, this was even that big a deal? I mean, there certainly have been precedents, dating back to the 17th century. I'm of the mind that really, she was chosen more for the fact that she holds closer to a conventional interpretation of poetry, instead of a radically experimental one, and therefore can be seen as something to pitch for kids. Someone who uses simple language complexly is hardly as inaccessible as someone who uses difficult language difficultly. I can't see the Poet Laureate being anything like the Canadian Poet Laureateship, which no one knows about, and which really supports post-structuralist poets who are informed by contemporary discourse and issues.

Playing on the bisexuality, to me seems a weak. I doubt the bisexuality was even considered - they most likely assembled a panel and asked who we could appoint that would make us proud of our poet laureate. Certainly someone who really challenged the Status Quo could not be chosen, and certainly someone who people, and we are talking about not avid poetry readers here, could understand would also seem key. And then, as a second thought, they probably said, there are half a million people like that we could choose, lets narrow it down. We want to seem progressive, so lets take a woman, but which woman? Well bingo - this one fits all the criteria, lets appropriate her.

[kelby_lake]

Don't think much of her. If we have to study her next year, I'll be very annoyed.

[Jozanny]

I think many female poets would take a great deal of offense from the above clipping - as if a State sanctioned position is somehow fundamental to the way they express identity. Emily Dickinson didn't need a laureateship, and I think such a statement cheapens the tradition - it, I would argue, merely appropriates women's writing under the banner of "The new in" as if it had not existed before this.

I agree, even in my ignorance of Kay Ryan and Duffy both. In the US, Ryan is, at the moment, the darling of the liberal media, because she is an atypical laureate, but I am not sure why the XX blog had to *out* her, other than to titillate. Meg's view seems otherwise simplistic. Even before Dickinson, there existed a pioneering feminine literary voice.

I do not know if I like Ryan, and I mean that in the most neutral sense, except in the competitive one, my style is no doubt on the wane. I do not like small clipped stanzas with one motif, like Kay's "green hills", which are supposed to carry great import, and of Duffy I know zilch, but along with Armitage, these seem to represent a new breed, where language is used simply, in easy to understand terms, but come with twists, or secondary inferences.

The only work I have been doing on my poetry, before my life got shot to hell, was putting my published pieces together for book contests. I'm not even sure I'm a poet anymore, because I cannot make money off of being one, and my writing needs to earn. I can no longer truly afford mere exposure in the latest literary journal.

[quasimodo1]

Words, Wide Night by Carol Ann Duffy
Somewhere on the other side of this wide night
and the distance between us, I am thinking of you.
The room is turning slowly away from the moon.
{excerpt}

[emily00]

This discussion, from another - non-literary -forum, about the removal of Duffy's 'Education for Leisure' from the GCSE Anthology after public protest, may be of interest:

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=18807

[prendrelemick]

This discussion, from another - non-literary -forum, about the removal of Duffy's 'Education for Leisure' from the GCSE Anthology after public protest, may be of interest:

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=18807

Sometimes I despair.

Three Blind Mice will be next, if it isn't banned already .

[JBI]

This discussion, from another - non-literary -forum, about the removal of Duffy's 'Education for Leisure' from the GCSE Anthology after public protest, may be of interest:

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=18807

Earth to Duffy - writing about your frustration was so 1970s. Seriously, the fact that they anthologized that in the first place is enough for protest - it sounds like some 15 year old's doggerel. But then again, I guess they are feeding children what they want to read.

But when thinks of it, if you look at Italy, for instance, you get 17-18 year olds reading something like Leopardi at that age.

What sweet thoughts,
what hope, what hearts, O my Silvia!
How all human life and fate
appeared to us then!
When I recall that hope
such feelings pain me,
harsh, disconsolate,
I brood on my own destiny.
Oh Nature, Nature
why do you not give now
what you promised then? Why
do you so deceive your children?

From To Silvia (A Silvia) tr. A. S. Kline

I think something like that takes a similar subject, perhaps a more profound one, and plays better with it. The Duffy poem to me looks like at attempt at polemics, but doesn't really have the same power, or punch as other good poems, for instance, Gwendolyn MacEwen's poem For a Friend Contemplating Suicide (I think I got the title right, I don't have it in front of me, unfortunately, as I need a copy of MacEwen badly). Something like that, for instance, which goes over the reasons why the friend should commit suicide, then triumphantly ends with essentially "What are you waiting for?" is so much more potent all things considered.

The poem reads of mediocre confessional poetry of the Anne Sexton kind, with little innovation in language, or style, other than writing sentences of a 10 year old. Perhaps the poem is interesting, and ironic the first time, but I can't help but feel it is tedious, and a cheap way of "Trying to make poetry relate to the kids."

[emily00]

I agree that it is not a particularly good poem; it would be quite easy for the average A level student to tear it apart, stylistically. Nor is it, you will be relieved to learn, the only kind of poem which British 15 and 16 year olds study - the Anthology in question contains a much wider range and includes poetry by Jonson, Shakespeare, Browning, Heaney, Clarke, Armitage, Nichols (to name but a few off the top of my head!). But all that misses the point a little.

The question raised by the discussion on the link I posted was really - given the poem's exclusion from one board's Anthology - whether or not it is appropriate to include poetry with violent themes or violent 'voices' in the secondary school Literature curriculum, and why; I would be interested in anyone's views on that.

[JBI]

I googled the contents of the anthology - I know - but quite honestly, the poems inside it weren't particularly difficult, or inspired. Strangely though, the poems all seem to be written by males, with the exception of the Duffy and Gillian Clarke ones. With the exception of Whitman too, all the poems seem to be from the British isles (Heaney was born in North Ireland, and Yeats in colonial Ireland, so I think that counts and it isn't even a particularly good Whitman poem either, "Patrolling Barnegat"), so I guess it isn't the best anthology, in terms of poetry, to begin with anyway.


As for Violence in poetry, Charge of the Light Brigade is a staple in anthologies (and always makes the versification as a dactylic example), dating back to the end of the 19th century. Likewise, something like "Daddy" by Silvia Plath, or virtually anything by Margaret Atwood have been included in most anthologies over here for school children. This whole violent voice bit is just exadurated. What is bloodier than Homer? Certainly La Gerusalemme liberata, Tasso's masterpiece that was a standard text all the way from its penning through to the beginning of the 20th century is incredibly violent?

The question then turns to content - people have this crazy myth in their heads, that children are more violent today than they have ever been. Statistically, it has shown that rates are down, and there is no correlation between exposure to violence in media, and violence toward others, yet this is the single most funded research question in the field of media studies. More has been poured into this, than almost all the rest combined. People are seeking a justification for why somehow the younger generation is more corrupt and violent than the older one, when clearly that is hardly the case.

As to pulling this poem, I think if a youth who was reading this really had angry urges to destroy something, the poem wouldn't help or convince him to do it, well perhaps it would come to that. Maybe it would bore him to make him hate reading poetry even more than (s)he already did, because, after all, this poem is an insult to their intelligence.

People just use these "controversial bits" in order to take attention away from the real cause of violence amongst teenagers - bad parents, and corrupt society, and income inequality, racism, classism, and you name it thrown into the mix. I have never heard of anyone who got convinced to break things from reading a mediocre book.

As for the discussion on that forum goes though - I didn't find it particularly enlightening, or relevant. Anyone with any sense realizes that Macbeth, or King Lear, or even Hamlet are far more violent, and I doubt they will be replaced soon.

[emily00]

I googled the contents of the anthology - I know - but quite honestly, the poems inside it weren't particularly difficult, or inspired. Strangely though, the poems all seem to be written by males, with the exception of the Duffy and Gillian Clarke ones. With the exception of Whitman too, all the poems seem to be from the British isles (Heaney was born in North Ireland, and Yeats in colonial Ireland, so I think that counts and it isn't even a particularly good Whitman poem either, "Patrolling Barnegat"), so I guess it isn't the best anthology, in terms of poetry, to begin with anyway. You appear to have missed the sixteen poems written in English by poets from non-British backgrounds as far apart as San Francisco and Nigeria, although I suspect that some of them are included tokenistically, rather than on literary merit. I think you are also being rather elitist about this compilation. I agree, there are some pretty turgid contributions in there, but there is good stuff too; approached selectively, it can prove a useful springboard for getting some young people interested in poetry who are not interested to begin with. I suppose it will always be difficult to compile a single anthology accessible to the full ability range, but there is nothing to stop teachers of abler students extending and enriching their students' study with more demanding material, as many do.




As for Violence in poetry, Charge of the Light Brigade is a staple in anthologies (and always makes the versification as a dactylic example), dating back to the end of the 19th century. Likewise, something like "Daddy" by Silvia Plath, or virtually anything by Margaret Atwood have been included in most anthologies over here for school children. This whole violent voice bit is just exadurated. What is bloodier than Homer? Certainly La Gerusalemme liberata, Tasso's masterpiece that was a standard text all the way from its penning through to the beginning of the 20th century is incredibly violent? I agree. (Exadurated? Is that how exaggerated is spelled in Canada?)



The question then turns to content - people have this crazy myth in their heads, that children are more violent today than they have ever been. Statistically, it has shown that rates are down, and there is no correlation between exposure to violence in media, and violence toward others, yet this is the single most funded research question in the field of media studies. More has been poured into this, than almost all the rest combined. People are seeking a justification for why somehow the younger generation is more corrupt and violent than the older one, when clearly that is hardly the case. I think I agree with you there, too, although in the absence of reliable data, it is difficult for us to be 'clear', isn't it?



As to pulling this poem, I think if a youth who was reading this really had angry urges to destroy something, the poem wouldn't help or convince him to do it, well perhaps it would come to that. Maybe it would bore him to make him hate reading poetry even more than (s)he already did, because, after all, this poem is an insult to their intelligence. Exactly the point which is made by one of the contributors on the other forum.




People just use these "controversial bits" in order to take attention away from the real cause of violence amongst teenagers - bad parents, and corrupt society, and income inequality, racism, classism, and you name it thrown into the mix. I have never heard of anyone who got convinced to break things from reading a mediocre book. I'm not sure what you mean by 'these contraversial bits'. Please could you clarify? On the last point, my 3 year old once trashed his bedroom immediately after reading the Beatrix Potter story about two mice who do the same to a dolls' house - does that count?



As for the discussion on that forum goes though - I didn't find it particularly enlightening, or relevant. That's strange, since most of the points you have made, are made there too!


Anyone with any sense realizes that Macbeth, or King Lear, or even Hamlet are far more violent, and I doubt they will be replaced soon. Again, this point was made in the discussion, and nobody has suggested that they will be, have they?

[prendrelemick]

There is as much to learn when studying a "bad" poem as a good one.

[emily00]

There is as much to learn when studying a "bad" poem as a good one.


Well, perhaps not quite so much! And not quite so enjoyably. Much bad poetry is to be found in greetings cards, for example, and I think there is probably a limit to what can be learnt from that kind of verse.

Did you have a particularly bad poem in mind, from which you have learnt something really useful?

(The muddy brown background to this forum is really rather nauseous, isn't it?)

[prendrelemick]

Well, perhaps not quite so much! And not quite so enjoyably. Much bad poetry is to be found in greetings cards, for example, and I think there is probably a limit to what can be learnt from that kind of verse.

Did you have a particularly bad poem in mind, from which you have learnt something really useful?

(The muddy brown background to this forum is really rather nauseous, isn't it?)

It was a general point. I put quotation marks around bad, because its a subjective thing. You read a bad poem, or a poem with faults, and discuss and analyse those faults,you're learning about poetry and its appreciation.

Like Beige, (or muddy brown as you called it) makes you appreciate other colours.:D

[emily00]

It was a general point. I put quotation marks around bad, because its a subjective thing. You read a bad poem, or a poem with faults, and discuss and analyse those faults,you're learning about poetry and its appreciation.
I agree, especially about the subjectivity; I have not once come across a definition of a 'good' poem on which more than about three people are agreed.


Like Beige, (or muddy brown as you called it) makes you appreciate other colours.:D Mmmm. Not sure about that. However, I think the sheep in your picture is related to the ones outside my house. It's a very Yorkshire-looking sheep, isn't it? A Swaledale? The dry stone wall looks less familiar, though. Where is it?

[Jozanny]

Ah, I believe I was lurking in the General Teaching thread when Scheherazade posted about teaching "Education for Leisure", so I stand corrected on my exposure to Duffy.

JBI: The interpretative module I came across through Sche's efforts suggests that this poem is more than a sophomoric effort, not that I have time to defend it stanza by stanza, but there is something to be gained through a careful reading here.

[prendrelemick]

Mmmm. Not sure about that. However, I think the sheep in your picture is related to the ones outside my house. It's a very Yorkshire-looking sheep, isn't it? A Swaledale? The dry stone wall looks less familiar, though. Where is it?

Its one of four my nieghbour left me when he moved. Its mum was a Swaledale (or Swardie as they're called round here) Its dad was a Herdwick crossed with something or other.
The setting is the upper Calder Vally in West Yorkshire.

[emily00]

Its one of four my nieghbour left me when he moved. Its mum was a Swaledale (or Swardie as they're called round here) Its dad was a Herdwick crossed with something or other.
The setting is the upper Calder Vally in West Yorkshire.

That all makes perfect sense, thank you! The dry stone walls round my bit of Yorkshire (the Dales) are much jaggier. No shelter for the wallers to start hewing them into shape, I guess. They just used to dig the rocks out of the ground and whack the walls up. Yours looks a bit more 'designer'. Very self-possessed looking sheep. too. Does it read much?

[prendrelemick]

No, but it drives.



Drives me round the bend, that is



Like Carol Duffy (he said, desperately trying to get back on subject so entries aren't removed)

[JBI]

Ah, I believe I was lurking in the General Teaching thread when Scheherazade posted about teaching "Education for Leisure", so I stand corrected on my exposure to Duffy.

JBI: The interpretative module I came across through Sche's efforts suggests that this poem is more than a sophomoric effort, not that I have time to defend it stanza by stanza, but there is something to be gained through a careful reading here.

The one redeeming quality I see in the poem is the last clause, "I touch your arm." perhaps that says something, but when valuing poems like these, you must ask, a) what is missing from the book that is good, and b) has similar stuff been written, and how much better. I don't think the poem is particularly enlightened, nor do I think it particularly authentic. That creates problems - it seems like she is trying to adopt a silly persona in order to relate to a certain age group, or probe the issues of a certain age group, but quite clearly, it comes off as a rather silly, half joke.

One could argue, Duffy has merely adopted a persona of a struggling artist (or if you want to take it to a lesser extent, struggling adolescent), or one dealing with an inability to express oneself, and therefore uses the breaking of things as an example of expression. But even so, does that make it a good poem? Is that even a profound insight? I think people have realized that people vent their anger through destruction for hundreds of years. Freud made a career out of such obvious speculation. I can hardly see what is so darn enlightening about said poem.

Really, it feels as if she is trying to take cheap crime novel personas, and transfer them into poetic subjects, in a rather mediocre dramatic monologue. Whereas Browning's Duke though, reveals elements, and dark ironies within his sadistic existence though, Duffy's merely takes a contemporary, somewhat polemical issue (Columbine fever is still rampant, and reinforced by the media exposure of similar acts) and tries to sympathize with it, but does so in a silly, and to no avail.

Poetry is not that kind of vehicle - a short story is perhaps that kind of vehicle - but poetry handles static time far better than it does dynamic time. The progression of the monologue then, demands a revelation in perspective, and a building sense of drama. This isn't occurrent in the poem - there is no drama, no insight, no revelation of character, or reflexive revelation upon the reader. It reads like light verse, without the fun - a cheap crack at trying to make something sound profound.

[emily00]

No, but it drives.



Drives me round the bend, that is



Like Carol Duffy (he said, desperately trying to get back on subject so entries aren't removed)

Seriously? The Forum Police will remove anything which diverts from the stated topic? Good grief. The diversions are often the best bits and the ones from which most can be gained.

If anything light or diversionary is removed as soon as it appears, you guys must feel that you are incarcerated in a perpetual lecture theatre, with no tea breaks.

[prendrelemick]

No, not that seriously.

what part of the Dales do you hail from ?






I bet Ms.Duffy would like to live in the Dales (;) )

[Scheherazade]

Seriously? The Forum Police will remove anything which diverts from the stated topic? Good grief. Before "The Forum Police" get even a worse name than they already have, please read the Forum Rules:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/announcement.php?f=10

[emily00]

No, not that seriously.

what part of the Dales do you hail from ?



Between the Ribble and the Swale.


Before "The Forum Police" get even a worse name than they already have, please read the Forum Rules:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/announcement.php?f=10

Thank you. That's OK, then. Swaledale sheep and dry stone walls do not seem specifically to be proscribed, as they are not overtly political. Although... if the great writers we discuss had been banned from discussing 'current politics', some of their oeuvres would have (arguably) been far less rich and provocative.

Into which periods in politics may one safely stray (assuming it is relevant to the literary discussion in progress?)? Pre-Blair? Or is that too recent?

[prendrelemick]

you should be safe enough with Pericles:lol:

[emily00]

you should be safe enough with Pericles:lol:

That's depressing. How can one discuss the work of Alan Bennett or Caryl Churchill without having a good rant about the Age of Selfishness that was the Thatcher Years?

[Red-Headed]

Carol Ann Duffy has recently become the first female UK Poet Laureate. However it is a possibility that a woman may have become laureate earlier. Christina Georgina Rossetti (1830-94) was the sister of D.G. & W.M. Rossetti. She shared many of her brother's intellectual & literary interests from a very early age. Unfortunately ill health (which later developed severely) ended her career as a governess. Her engagement to one of the original Pre-Raphaelite painters, James Collinson, ended in 1850 when he rejoined the Catholic Church. Her devout High Anglicanism, which bordered on Tractarianism, was a large contributing factor to this event. Her work ranges from fantasy to ballads, sonnets & religious poetry. In fact she wrote many religious sonnets in later life. She has often been compared to Emily Bronte for her sense of melancholy which could sometimes border on morbidity. She was a favourite of Queen Victoria & would have certainly been the first female Poet Laureate after the death of Tennyson. This would have set an important precedent. Unfortunately she developed a fatal cancer in 1891 with which she succumbed to three years later. Seven Poet's Laureate followed but it was not until Carol Anne Duffy, CBE, FRSL, succeeded Andrew Motion on the first of May 2009 that a woman held the post.

[kelby_lake]

The collection of poems called Rapture...she just uses the same metaphors over and over again. Same box of tricks...gets very samey after a while, especially seeing as you don't have a nice archaic style to appreciate.

We're studying the collection for A-Level :( Last year, they did Shelley!

[kelby_lake]

Anybody know anything about Duffy and allusions?

[prendrelemick]

Don't think much of her. If we have to study her next year, I'll be very annoyed.


Oo unlucky!