May / Detective Reading: The Maltese Falcon [Archive]

Stargazer86

05-07-2009, 02:23 PM

I started reading this 2 days ago. I would have finished this morning but I had to go to work so I'll be finished this evening. It's fantastic! Not a book I would have picked up and read on my own, but I'm so glad it was picked. It's a hard one to put down! I'm looking forward to discussing it. I may go buy the movie tonight

Virgil

05-07-2009, 06:04 PM

I read and did a theis on this as an undergraduate - going to get my notes out and bore you all to death!
Oh that would be great. I actually had this as a read in an undergrad class centuries ago and have loved it since.

I started reading this 2 days ago. I would have finished this morning but I had to go to work so I'll be finished this evening. It's fantastic! Not a book I would have picked up and read on my own, but I'm so glad it was picked. It's a hard one to put down! I'm looking forward to discussing it. I may go buy the movie tonight

I'll have to go dig outr my copy and start. It is a great detective story. The prose writing is tops. Have you seen the movie with Humphery Bogart? After you finish you should try to get it Stargazer. It's a really fine movie too. :)

wateredwhisky

05-08-2009, 07:20 PM

I read and did a theis on this as an undergraduate - going to get my notes out and bore you all to death!

I just finished up an undergrad class in Roman Noir, so we did a lot of the hard-boiled detective fiction. I'll probably get around to posting some of my notes on it here pretty soon.

JohnMelmoth

05-08-2009, 07:38 PM

My copy of The Maltese Falcon has now arrived from Amazon and I am looking forward to what looks like a good read. I have all of Sunday at home this weekend so I hope to read it all in one go. It will be a nice break from War and Peace, which I have been reading all year - and I still have 600 pages to go!

Stargazer86

05-09-2009, 06:14 PM

I really enjoyed this book. As I stated earlier, it was so hard to put down! There's action from beginning to end. I absolutely love the descriptions and dialouge and how seedy all these people are while still managing to maintain some class. I could just picture the whole thing in black and white and almost hear thier voices. I wouldn't say the ending was alltogether shocking, but I profusely enjoyed it nonetheless. I've never seen the movie but I saw it on sale at Target and will be buying it. I believe it stars Humphrey Bogart who I'm sure is just PERFECT in the part of Spade. Actually, that's exactly who I was picturing while reading the book. Spade is just such a scumbag, but you've gotta love him. And in the end he does seem to have some sort of twisted sense of morality.
I didn't realize that Spade is a recurring character in other Hammett stories. I'd be interested in checking those out to read on the history of Archer and Spade. Perhaps that would have made this book even more interesting.

Michael T

05-09-2009, 07:10 PM

I really enjoyed this book. As I stated earlier, it was so hard to put down! There's action from beginning to end. I absolutely love the descriptions and dialouge and how seedy all these people are while still managing to maintain some class... I believe it stars Humphrey Bogart who I'm sure is just PERFECT in the part of Spade.

This may not be the thread to mention it, but you should check out the novels of Raymond Chandler. His detective is Philip Marlowe and Bogart played him in more than one movie.

Boris239

05-10-2009, 11:16 AM

I read about a year ago- didn't like it too much... I've always preferred classical detectives.

Stargazer86

05-12-2009, 07:55 PM

Oh that would be great. I actually had this as a read in an undergrad class centuries ago and have loved it since.

I'll have to go dig outr my copy and start. It is a great detective story. The prose writing is tops. Have you seen the movie with Humphery Bogart? After you finish you should try to get it Stargazer. It's a really fine movie too. :)

They're selling a fantastic special edition version at Target right now for $20. That's my next DVD purchase for sure. I'm looking forward to seeing it (and the special features as well)

Virgil

05-12-2009, 07:58 PM

They're selling a fantastic special edition version at Target right now for $20. That's my next DVD purchase for sure. I'm looking forward to seeing it (and the special features as well)

Great!! Though $20 sounds pricey. I wonder what special features they are providing.

Stargazer86

05-13-2009, 02:35 AM

Great!! Though $20 sounds pricey. I wonder what special features they are providing.
I think classics cost more. They've been releasing them gradually at Target. $20 used to be standard DVD price but it seems $10 now is a little closer to standard. Not sure what the special features are though I believe it said over 7 hours of them. And I think there's an extra movie on there. How close is the movie to the book?

Don Quixote Jr

05-13-2009, 05:21 AM

I read the book several years ago, and liked it very much. I've seen the film version starring Humphrey Bogart at least a dozen times, and still haven't gotten tired of it. His was the third movie based on the novel, which I discovered while doing a term paper on the movie for Cinema 101.
I'm going to re-read the novel since it is the month's featured novel.
PS: Have re-read it, & still like it a lot!

Scheherazade

05-13-2009, 12:22 PM

Janine

05-13-2009, 07:43 PM

I think classics cost more. They've been releasing them gradually at Target. $20 used to be standard DVD price but it seems $10 now is a little closer to standard. Not sure what the special features are though I believe it said over 7 hours of them. And I think there's an extra movie on there. How close is the movie to the book?

Stargazer, look on Amazon. Many of the classics are coming out now and they are cheaper than $20. I buy mostly all my DVD's from Amazon and they have sales, too. I got "Casablanca" not long ago and it was onsale for under 15 bucks; might have been $10.99. Do you really need 7 hours of special features? I always group a few items so I don't pay shipping - designate super-saving shipping when you check out. You save on tax, too. How can you beat that?

Virgil

05-13-2009, 07:47 PM

So, I started reading today. Read only about 1/10 but hello? I don't know why guys complain about chick-flicks as this one is obviously a "guy flick"...

And "sweetheart", "darling"? *rolls her eyes so much that she can see the back of her own head*

:lol: I guess it might be. But I know lots of women that love these hard detective novels. I think it's mostly women who buy them. There are now women hard detectives.

JuniperWoolf

05-13-2009, 08:03 PM

I've never understood why this book is so popular. My boyfriend read it and he enjoyed it. I found it boring, and I didn't like any of the characters (except for Effie, she was okay). Sam Spade was repugnant. I DID like the flow and vocabulary, and the Flitcraft story made me pause and think for a while, but all in all not one of my favorites.

Stargazer86

05-15-2009, 12:08 AM

So, I started reading today. Read only about 1/10 but hello? I don't know why guys complain about chick-flicks as this one is obviously a "guy flick"...

And "sweetheart", "darling"? *rolls her eyes so much that she can see the back of her own head*

Otherwise, it sounds like a typical detective story so far.

Spade is pretty despicable. Well they all are. No one would EVER get away with talking like that now. That's part of what really gets you in that frame of mind and the setting so I think its appropriate for what it is and the time period in which it's told. He's the upper echelon of scumbag. And well...I love it! Never was much a chick flick fan myself. I've always been more into "guy movies" (stories in general).

Stargazer, look on Amazon. Many of the classics are coming out now and they are cheaper than $20. I buy mostly all my DVD's from Amazon and they have sales, too. I got "Casablanca" not long ago and it was onsale for under 15 bucks; might have been $10.99. Do you really need 7 hours of special features? I always group a few items so I don't pay shipping - designate super-saving shipping when you check out. You save on tax, too. How can you beat that?

Oh lol I think the 7hours of special features includes another movie. And I'm a dork and love watching interviews, bios, and behind the scenes stuff.

parora86

05-23-2009, 06:56 AM

Just purchased the book from Borders. They had the Maltese Falcon for $12.95 and then they had all three of Hammett's book for $24. I had a 40% coupon, so all three cost me ~$15. Read the first chapter last night...

be back May 31st!

kasie

05-24-2009, 07:53 AM

It's done it again. :flare: :flare: :flare:

I've just written a careful, thoughtful and (ahem) erudite assessment of MF and my log-in has run out and the whole lot has disappeared into the wide blue ether. :rage:

So, briefly: reads like a film. Date is significant - 1929-30, talkies taking over from silent movies. Visual, lots of minute descriptions, silent films conveyed story visually. Dialogue short and sharp - silent films interspersed visual action with short, quick to read bits of dialogue, style carried over into talkies, gave rise to 'hard-boiled' convention. No introspection, no authorial interpretations, not allowed into character's interior thoughts or allowed to share their moments of illumination. Sam a superhuman detective - no description of previous life or how he became a detective, physical description 'Satanic', satyr-like, to emphasize superhuman aspect. Characters stock character, serve their purpose within the plot and have no existence outside the plot. Effie the most 'human' of characters because she reacts with her emotions - like us - and Sam warns against use of 'woman's intuition', must think like a detective and read the clues.

Now - will I be able to post this?

Yes! :banana:

Virgil

05-24-2009, 09:39 AM

Oh I'm sorry to hear about that Kasie. It happens to me on occaision too. I can't seem to find my book. I know it's somewhere in the basement. I'm just about done wqith Kim (yes, I was still reading that) and I'll put Austen's Persuasion on if I can find my Maltese Falcon.

papayahed

05-24-2009, 09:49 AM

Yeah, I take Sam's behaviour with a grain of salt, it sets up the story really well.

I just finished the book and I'd give it a 3.5. I still like the Thin Man better.

Virgil

05-24-2009, 10:21 AM

Yeah, I take Sam's behaviour with a grain of salt, it sets up the story really well.

I just finished the book and I'd give it a 3.5. I still like the Thin Man better.

Is that 3.5 out of ten or five or four?

parora86

06-06-2009, 02:17 PM

I am a little disappointed that not many read this book. I am almost done, 50 more pages to go!! Then, Ill prob watch the movie. But I'll post no later than tomorrow.

papayahed

06-06-2009, 06:03 PM

Is that 3.5 out of ten or five or four?

Out of 5.;)

Scheherazade

06-06-2009, 07:21 PM

Finished reading it couple of weeks ago. The earth did not move.

It is a good holiday/beach read but that's about it for me.

Jozanny

06-06-2009, 09:53 PM

Virgil

06-06-2009, 10:35 PM

I don't mean to be read too critically here, but it seems only kasie made an effort to really discuss the novel. It is something of a happenstance that I have studied Hammett under a number of instructors, and he did more than make hard-boiled detectives into a stock formula.

If I had the time, which I don't, I'd give his work its due and respect.

I've started. I'll make a few points shortly as I get further in. It is an interesting novel. It really formulates a picture of how we see the world which was fairly innovative for it's time.

Jozanny

06-06-2009, 11:00 PM

I've started. I'll make a few points shortly as I get further in. It is an interesting novel. It really formulates a picture of how we see the world which was fairly innovative for it's time.

Yes, particularly in Hammett's embrace of Manichian tendencies in both his hero and the text itself. That statement ought to keep the gang busy on Google for a few:p. I have read the novel perhaps three, for times, but I am really under pressure with this deadline, at least for this week, but even after that, I am not up for swimming along Virgil, but maybe I'll agree with you or not from memory; I'll peek in here and there.

PS: If I can really coax my poet-writer friend in here, I will rib him more mercilessly than I would you:D. Happy? He emailed me back today and said he might join Lit Net because I'M here. Everytime I hear from him he cheers me up immensely and I envy his joy of life. Read my last post here (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?p=733172#post733172) if I am losing you dear, but he has known me 11 years, and survived the association!:lol: His wife is equally charming. We should have an LN gathering one day.

Virgil

06-06-2009, 11:09 PM

Great on your friend Jozy. Anyone that writes poetry is welcomed and I'm certainly interested. As to Hammett, I will have to look up to see what you mean by Manichian. ;)

kasie

06-07-2009, 08:28 AM

Come back, Jozy, come back - please, what redeems Sam? Is there any redemption for any character or any to be found in that dark world? I wasn't reading at that sort of depth!

Virgil

06-07-2009, 08:42 AM

Come back, Jozy, come back - please, what redeems Sam? Is there any redemption for any character or any to be found in that dark world? I wasn't reading at that sort of depth!

Hehe, in short, his personal code. :)

kasie

06-07-2009, 08:56 AM

But has he got a personal code? Doesn't he revenge his partner's death only because it wouldn't be good for the business to let it go unavenged?

'...When one of your organization gets killed it's bad business to let the killer get away with it. It's bad all round - bad for that one organization, bad for every detective everywhere....' Ch.20

Jozanny

06-07-2009, 09:01 AM

kasie, as much as I'd love to accommodate you, I am trying to whip up a sentimental vignette for around 100USD, and I have the title and one line. Why? I fried up kippers with hash browns last night, flicked my television remote in homage to the uber-reality of digital, popped in here to whirlpool with Virgil, and took an hour to order 100 dollars worth of food to my door, had three cups of coffee, and made about 3 chess moves, stopped to read a few articles, fed the cats twice, watched StarTrek, and by 5am EST frowned at my swelling tullip bulb foot, and wonder if I can get through a paragraph with my ears ringing while the cats are sleeping.

I have only myself to blame.

Scheherazade

06-07-2009, 09:09 AM

I personally don't think that there is much in this novel that piqued my interest to offer it a in depth analysis or discussion.

It might be a novelty in the sense that the central character treats female characters like objects or uses them to the best of his ability (as oppose to, say, Agatha Christie's Poirot, who is always moral and respectful). This is not a character trait I find endearing or giving my full attention.

Once I reached the half-way, the story became quite predictable to me as well so there was nothing exciting there either.

The constant description of outfits, make-up and food items made me want to skip passages.

So, I stand by my feedback that it did not impress me.

Having said that I also don't see why I should be in a position to defend my dissatisfaction.

I don't have the time to give this book the criticism it deserves.

kasie

06-07-2009, 09:49 AM

Scher - I think I started off like you: I recoiled from the treatment of women then realised it was a 21st century PC knee-jerk reaction, looked back at the date of publication and that, together with how most of the early posters mentioned the film not the book, got me thinking about silent films/talkies and the book seemed to slot into place for me. I can't say it was a book that I enjoyed - I found the style irritating and dated, though it has made me want to go on and read a Raymond Chandler as I understand he was also writing for Black Mask magazine at the same time as Hammett and was influenced by him. I haven't voted on the poll because I don't feel a simple 'Yes I liked it' or 'No, I didn't like it' actually says much about the book or any book, come to that - it says more about what kind of book I personally like which is probably only understandable to people who know me personally. As we were looking at the book as an example of its genre (and Detective Fiction is a genre I do enjoy and have read quite extensively) I thought it might generate some discussion if I put down my thoughts from that aspect.

Jozy - no hurry, but if you could expand on your thoughts when you have time, I'd appreciate it. What a busy life you lead!

mtpspur

06-07-2009, 04:53 PM

Jozanny

06-07-2009, 06:39 PM

Alas, kasie, I meant it as a personal criticism, my war between me and surfing and online socializing, my work, public housing frustration. It gets worse with age, and I am making a concerted effort to stop smoking. On top of that...well, maybe I'm becoming a failed writer.

Anyway, on another day maybe I'd be happy to waltz on Sam Spade. I'd add: Hammett doesn't have to be read that deeply. He isn't Borges. But there is stuff :)

Virgil

06-07-2009, 07:11 PM

I keep telling you people--the Continental Op is the one to study. Sam Spade can't hold a candle to him. Red Harvest is so much more interesting then Spade who must be a close cousin of James Bond in the use of women and mission statements.

Oh really. I think I have that somewhere in my basement unread. Perhaps next year I will give it a try.

mtpspur

06-07-2009, 07:40 PM

To any one who want a TASTE of Hammett's The Continental Op some must reads would be Dead Yellow Women, Fly Paper, The Gutting of Conffignal, novel Red Harvest, The House in Turk Street, and The Girl with Silver Eyes--for starters--at least these were some of MY favorites.

It's no secret that I adore the Continetal Op and disdain Sam Spade the 'character' with even more dislike for Nick Charles but I agree with one biographer of Hammett's that the three characters reveal Hammett's distancing himself from the genre and characters by showing the decline of the private detective The Op---cool professional who tries very hard to maintain a code of honor (within the limtations of the work), Spade (starting a walk to the dark side--could flip either way, and Charels--pretty much gave it all up as meaningless and unfulfilling--The Thin Man was tedious to work through. Hammett's place is secure in the detective field but time and disatnce does seem to give him an dated feel to him. I salute Raymond Chandler as the more literate writer but prefer the middle ground of John K. Butler and Frederick Nebel (both in great need of more reprints).

papayahed

06-07-2009, 10:42 PM

In terms of treatment of women I assumed The Maltese Falcon was akin to rap videos of the 90's.

dfloyd

10-22-2009, 09:57 PM

Mary Astor as the girl Bogart sends over. Humphrey, as Sam Spade, shows that short men can wear doublebreasted suits. Peter Lorre is great as the obviously gay Joel Cairo. Sydney Greenstreet is aptly named as Gutman. The Gunsel is Elisha Cook Jr., who died not too long ago. He was in his 80s. Definitely Dashiel Hammett at his best.