Anorexia

[ajoe]

Okay, I'm not even sure if this topic deserves its own thread, but.

I was just wasting my time today and somehow stumbled upon this blog.

Goodness, there are even blogrings.

I've heard of anorexia, sure, and people around me like to go on a diet every now and then, but I didn't know with anorexic people it was this bad. How is it that they obsess about their weight and their body? Why do they believe their waist measurement also measures their worth? Can't they find something else better to do than keep a blog of what they eat or not eat? Do they constantly think only about themselves and how they look? (They don't even have a typical-day's-story of their life; everything revolves around food and weight.) How narcissistic of them.

Sorry, I'm ranting. Reading some of the entries (i.e. "i'm only 5'3 and i weigh 100lbs now. omg!!! i'm still 30lbs away from my goal weight.") just make me depressed. I want to knock some sense into their head.

[amuse]

um, call me narcissistic, but i was bulimic for 20 years and my refusal to be controlled by that or my reactions to food any longer make it really hard to eat if i'm not hungry - really unhealthy for a diabetic! and it was worse before.

it's a disorder, ajoe. ;) and narcissism probably goes along with it, but i'm sure these girls didn't want to choose to hate food or their bodies.

[Logos]

For some people, they do actually have `disorders' as outlined in the DSM-IV (http://www.psychologynet.org/dsm.html)

But for some people I think they get a little carried away, it's not really a `disorder' for them. It's only through peer pressure and desire to be `cool' and accepted, that to be obsessed about their weight and what they eat, that if they aren't somehow overly concerned about their external appearance, they're not acceptable to the cool kids.

[amuse]

OMG!!! there's a mathematics disorder!

*continues to contemplate changing major. :p

[Taliesin]

OMG!!! there's a mathematics disorder!

Where!?!?!?!
We wanna!

[shortysweetp]

that site is really wrong. i mean there shouldnt be sites out there that encourage young girls to be anorexic or belumic most of the girls on that site are 16 or younger. no offense amuse but you yourself must realize how dangerous this site is by encouraging these girls' disorders. sorry if i offend anyone but i would never starve myself or allow my daughter to think that its ok. i would hope that my daughter would never feel the need to starve herself.

[amuse]

none taken. i would never encourage someone to have an eating disorder; it's no fun thing to have.
i didn't check out the site, was just responding to ajoe. of course promoting disorders is horrid. ...on that note, btw, so are elements of today's mass media. ex: women in the phillipines were fine with their body size, etc; after the introduction of western tv, eating disorders escalated by 500% or some such horrid #.

Taliesin, it's on the link Logos provided.
Where!?!?!?!
We wanna!

[Helga]

OK, in my group therapy there are a few anorexic girls and I have studied this a lot, (since I'm too 'underwheight') and this is a disorder, depression followes it for a lot of people. I understand what the thought that comes with this is, since it's a lot like depression you just keep on beating yourself down and you think you aren't good enough and have to be different to be accepted by the people around you.

There are MANY websites that encourage this behaviour in young girls. Some even think they have some magic solution that makes this ok. Luckily in todays society there are many programs that help people that have Anorexia or Bulemia. It's weird but what anorexics love the most is their scale. Often it is taken away from them.

Ohh, I have mathematics disorder....

[shortysweetp]

i completely agree that society is the corrupting this young girls but its not only girls i know a guy that was. its really sad. i checked the site out b/c i wanted to know why some of the girls did this and most of it was being obsessed with weight and today's media. the avatars on there were mainly the olsen twins, paris hilton, britney spears and supermodels. i used to be skinny i weighted 100 but i am only 4'11 i ate all the time and a lot now i have gained about 25 pounds (having my daughter did that) and i refuse to starve myself to get back down. sometimes i am unhappy about my weight but only b/c i used to be little and pettite but on most days I am content just being me. I love food plus i dont ever want my daughter to think people have to drop weight to be happy. i know its going to be a battle i fight every day when she gets older but i will not let the media corrupt her.
amuse,you were saying about how the western world's media has affected the worlds eating habits it has also affect the women's thoughts on everything. the some countries have a lower birthrate b/c of the media. i read in my geography class that governments are actually trying to use US's tv programs as a way to promote birthcontrol.

[amuse]

horrors! :eek2:

you sound so very nice and sane. btw.

[shortysweetp]

thank you.

[imthefoolonthehill]

yeah, we should totally, like, burn down all those tv stations that, like tell all those teenage girls they aren't pretty enough.

and whats more, we should install barf-free zones around schools to prevent bolemia.

[imthefoolonthehill]

the barf free zones would also prohibit drunken barfing.

[shortysweetp]

fool are you being mean??? :( dont be mean

[imthefoolonthehill]

mean? naw... i'm just proving that nothing is sacred.

[shortysweetp]

ok ok ..

[imthefoolonthehill]

and i'm inviting you to laugh at a serious subject.

[shortysweetp]

ok as long as you arent being mean to me :)

[Koa]

Well apart from fool's sarcasm, it IS about tv...tv to make it short, I mean society. I've always been a bit overweight (wow I'm improving: I said 'a bit'...) and as a teenager (or even before) I've been often humiliated for that, like 'shut up you fat one'. Plus seeing that thin girls got attentions from boys and I didn't and so on, well i've had hard times accepting how I look like. Not that I fully do now, but who cares. This is to say that I see where some disorders come from, it is insecurity and problem in accepting themselves... I have no strength of will so I would never be able to diet seriously or get obsessed by it, moreover I like food too much especially when i feel that my life is dull and I feel like I suffer from lack of affection. But the feeling of guilt that comes with that is often not funny, and it's probably just a case of my total laziness if I've never been bulimic.

So I think what should be done is allow society to show all kinds of bodies as beautiful, not just skinny ones. I think one reason why i've never been liked by an Italian boy is that they're too obsessed about the female models they see on tv (Italian tv has been criticised also abroad for the terrible use of thin half-naked girls in almost every program), it's just a wrong model that is given. I've seen plenty of tv talk shows dealing with this, unlike ajoe who was surprised. And maybe I shouldnt blame it on others but I've blamed society a lot for my insecurities about my aspect, as I discussed many times with the first boy who liked me, whose taste I found absolutely crazy cos he liked me for being rather fat. But he came from another culture, where girls sizes are different. By the way, talking of sizes, in shops in Italy I always wear the biggest size or almost, or not even find a size big enough for me. When I'm abroad I hardly ever have to take the biggest size, to my surprise. I remember often coming home in tears after trying to buy clothes as a teenager, and I think the un-democracy of clothes sizes can also help in putting bad ideas in mind. Then people get carried away, maybe have other issues, and then comes the disorder.

(sorry this was a bit long but you know how verbose I am and this is a topic I had sort of something to say about as I've spent a long time thinking about how damn social models influence the ideas of beauty and therefore the acceptance of one's self)

[amuse]

i thought it was funny, fool. :blush:

[amuse]

So I think what should be done is allow society to show all kinds of bodies as beautiful, not just skinny ones...By the way, talking of sizes, in shops in Italy I always wear the biggest size or almost, or not even find a size big enough for me. When I'm abroad I hardly ever have to take the biggest size, to my surprise.Gawd, that's brilliant! :eek: nice thinking!
btw, i bought a very nice Esprit coat, and come to find out it was a large or extra large in Euro sizes - in the U.S. i wear a medium - i see exactly what you mean!!!

[mono]

Well apart from fool's sarcasm, it IS about tv...tv to make it short, I mean society.
I partially agree and disagree. Besides having the component of media and societal/sociological pressures, geneticists have found specific genes that follow heredity in families; through statistical analysis, a mother or father who had an eating disorder gives a child a 50% chance of inheriting the same eating disorder. In essence eating disorders have both a nature and nurture contribution.
This reminds me of a sociology study once conducted in southeast Indonesia; the small island, which I cannot remember the name, had no form of media (television, radio, Internet) until recent decades. Before the appearance of media, most men and women seemed more liked as being larger and heavy-set; after the approaching of the first television, within the first 10 years (!), the trend of attraction changed drastically.
Logos provided the best possible link anyone could ask; both medical professionals and patients rely entirely on that resource.
I cannot imagine how difficult life would seem with a severe eating disorder. I have considered myself very close to both anorexics and bulimics (two, in specific, presently). I have also taken care of a few patients with severe cases (one of whom, a woman, who weighed roughly 78 pounds - or about 35.5 kilograms; I apologize that I cannot provide anymore information). In a philosophical sense, I have always thought of eating disorders controlling voluntary actions (the will); every person afflicted with such a disorder I have known desires to consume, but simply "cannot," and, truly, attempting to force them to eat, which too many medical professionals, family, and friends try, only exacerbates the condition to further severity, from the stress. Force, in my opinion, only seems needed in a life-threatening scenario (like my former patient I mentioned); before then, one can simply recommend counseling and any forms of psychiatric medication.

[Koa]

I partially agree and disagree. Besides having the component of media and societal/sociological pressures, geneticists have found specific genes that follow heredity in families; through statistical analysis, a mother or father who had an eating disorder gives a child a 50% chance of inheriting the same eating disorder. In essence eating disorders have both a nature and nurture contribution.
.

Well OK, it's not hard to believe...but like many other things, a predisposition to it can remain latent till something makes it explode...

And the conception of beauty in the society is often too strict and limited.


btw, i bought a very nice Esprit coat, and come to find out it was a large or extra large in Euro sizes - in the U.S. i wear a medium - i see exactly what you mean!!!

Wow, another point to my theory. In the US I'd be thin :D Once I bought a tshirt in Austria and naturally grabbed theL one...then realised it was huge and bought a M... here I'd never even try a M, I just grab a L and pray it fits...which not always happens. :goof:

That said... I need a diet :d But diet always starts 'tomorrow'...:D:D:D

[ajoe]

Wow. Having never been even a bulimic, I guess I'm the only one here without enough willpower to try to lose weight--even though I know I need to shed a couple pounds or ten. '_'

Hahah, I also used to wear size L only, but it was only because I was quite lucky to grow up around food while most people in my country did not get enough nutrition and therefore could not possibly grow into very big people. Here, my size ranges from S to 2XL depending on the brand names. :p

Oh, whoops, since I may be going to Italy soon, I'd better prepare enough clothes cause I probably wouldn't find any clothes my size there.

[fayefaye]

but... the problem with how society tries to deal with things like this sometimes is that they turn it on their head; people can get discriminated against for being skinny too. I mean, I have friends who are naturally quite thin and they've been told they're anorexic before... even though they're not. and it's like, 'God! eat something!!' and they DO, they're just thin. and then there are other times; if my friends are on diets 'I'm on a 'smelling' diet' (SMELL food rather than EAT it... cheh, good idea. *rollseyes*) and I tell them how silly they're being and it becomes, 'OH. that's ok for YOU to say. You're SKINNY.' (they're not even fat!... it's INSANE)

this is totally, off topic...but I love Esprit coats too. :)

ps, koa, please don't diet.

[Bandini]

My girlfriend is very healthy, has absolutely no food issues, but is very thin. She has been called 'anorexic' and had people assume she is obsessive about her weight, (she really never thinks about it - we both eat fairly healthily but enjoy food and drink) when she really is 'just that way' - as are her family. She had experiences very similar to you fayefaye.

I think, as with the rise in 'self harming' a lot of 'sufferers' are looking for attention. Sad, but if they were living in a less affluent, priviliged society, one can't help thinking they'd have other things on their mind.

BTW - if obesity is genetic, where are the fat people in the third world? In the mansions and government buildings, I'll warrant. We need to stop medicalising everything. Some people are naturally inclined to be 'bigger' or 'smaller' but obesity is down to eating too much food. End of.

[amuse]

i don't know if anorexics are looking for attn., but bulimics tend to (as did i) keep their stuff damned private. most people have no clue that they there's a problem. i've only become vocal after 20 years, and after healing, because the only way, imo, for a bulimic to get help is to Admit it, and very, very, very few do.
and i know at least one other person who has kept this secret for nearly two decades.

in other words, i resent the "a lot of sufferers." it depends on the disorder. ;)

a lot of obese people are in u.s. cities, and on buses, and at home - many simply don't go out as much as smaller people, so we see less of them (as per my developmental psych. book).

anyhoo

[Bandini]

Please feel free to disagree - I like to hear other views, as most people I know sahre my views on the whole body dismorphia t'ing. I know I over simplify and generalise a lot - I just like people to react; then I learn. Apologies to any non-attention seeking anorexics, and obese people who only eat salad!

[amuse]

lol! that's great. :)

[Dyrwen]

Yeah, the internet helps anyone with a problem nowadays find thousands of people with a similar problem that can make it a good thing. Fine by me, really..

If people want to go out of their way to look "beautiful" as they see being beautiful should be and that entails destroying oneself with lack of food and nutrients your body needs, that's their peroggative. If they're content trying to be thinner, so be it. I don't go stopping drug attics that enjoy their high. Until they ask for help on their own initiative, there's really little reason to feel much for them outside of support in my book. Whether it's a "disorder" or not that can't be changed by mere thought isn't my issue with the thing, seeing as anyone with an addiction to being skinny (much like those addicted to food, drugs, exercise) will never realize they're truly addicted until it's too late. It's not place to go pointing out the issue to someone before it's too late only to have them not accept it and further distance them from other people in reality.

[amuse]

i can't of course speak for anorexics, but the major issue for myself and other bulimics is control. a great many times eating is a knee jerk reaction to feelings of overpowering helplessness, and getting rid of the food translates to being in control.

[elysium]

When I was thirteen years old, I had anorexia for a period of about 6 months, which, though it seems like it was an entire lifetime, is relatively short. Actually, the actual disease probably continued during treatment, but since I'm not sure when I was no longer considered anorexic, I just tell people "Six months" when they ask. Now I'm sixteen years old, and although my weight is now normal (thanks to vitamin supplements and other weight maintenance medications) and I no longer see myself as overweight, or have obsessive thoughts or compulsions about my image, I still consider myself anorexic. In the same way that alcoholics will always be alcoholics, even after they have been sober for years, there is always the looming possibility that I will have a relapse. After all, about half of anorexics never fully recover.

I agree, anorexia is not the same as narcissism. It helps if you think of an analogy; you wouldn't consider an alcoholic as neccessarily suicidal, would you? Even so, alcoholism does often lead to premature death, even if the alcoholic has no desire to stop living. Yes, anorexic people are obsessed with their image, but it has nothing to do with their own volition. I didn't choose to be anorexic, I developed the disorder for reasons that have still never surfaced. I think some people overlook the non-physical side of anorexia: the intense depression. If anorexics were narcissists, they would see themselves as already perfect, right? Anorexia is such a terrible disease because it causes a feeling of worthlessness and imperfection much beyond that of the average person. So I think I would be right in saying that anorexia nervosa is the exact *opposite* of narcissism.

So anyway. I sort of have my doubts as to whether that woman is really anorexic. Anorexia is something one generally tends to hide, because anorexics are terrified at the thought of being viewed as anything less than perfect. As someone said earlier, a lot of people say they are or even attempt to be anorexic because I guess they like the idea, or think it makes them look cool. These people are not real anorexics. I wouldn't worry too much about the site, for whoever it was that was concerned about young girls; if a girl is going to develop anorexia, she will regardless of what anyone says to her because it is a control issue buried deep within an individual's psyche, and has little to do with normal low self-esteem. Of course, it could further advocate the disease within someone who is already anorexic.