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coberst
04-28-2009, 04:19 PM
How is body and mind one?

“It is our organic flesh and blood, our structural bones, the ancient rhythms of our internal organs, and the pulsating flow of our emotions that give us whatever meaning we can find and that shape our very thinking.”

Our Western philosophical culture and our Christian religion deny this very obvious fact. We try desperately to think of our selves as gods with minds that float above our body with its nasty old anus.

Descartes, one of the first philosophers that the young philosophy student learns about, informs us that “my essence consists solely in the fact that I am a thinking being…I have a clear and distinct idea of myself, in so far as I am simply a thinking, non-extended thing; and on the other hand I have a distinct idea of body, in so far as this is simply an extended, non-thinking thing.”

Our Christian culture, our Western philosophical tradition, and our naïve common sense perceptions all seem to work in concert to instill this erroneous mind/body dichotomy upon our comprehension of reality. All of these factors lead us to place a positive evaluation upon freeing our self from our body. When we die and our mind/soul/spirit goes to heaven our body decays into dust where it came from. And we are forever free of its unpleasant burden.

SGCS (Second Generation Cognitive Science) challenges this traditional and common sense inherited duality of mind/body. This new paradigm for cognitive science targets the disembodied view of meaning that results from our objectivist philosophy.

Traditionally, meaning is associated with words and sentences. Meaning in this traditional sense is about propositions and words, but SGCS considers this a very limited view of meaning; this disembodied view is far too narrow. “Meaning traffics in patterns, images, qualities, feelings, and eventually concepts and propositions.”

Objectivist philosophy recognizes two fundamentally different kinds of meaning: descriptive and emotive meaning. This is an illusory demarcation that led certain philosophers of language to retain focus upon the conceptual/propositional as the only meaning that mattered and that emotive meaning had no meaning in rigorous testable modes of knowing.

This dream of “freeing oneself from the body” reinforces the erroneous idea that is buried deeply within our psyche by our Western Christian philosophical inheritance the dangerous idea that a person’s “true” self is not of this world but abides in some transcendent kingdom. These kinds of ideas lead us into ignoring our situation on this planet because it is of small consequence when we spend eternity in some heavenly bliss. Such thoughts make it possible for people to strap bombs upon their person and go strolling in the mall on the way to heaven.

SGCS argues “for the central role of emotion in how we make sense of our world. There is no cognition without emotion, even though we are often unaware of the emotional aspects of our thinking.”

Quotes from The Meaning of the Body by Mark Johnson

RichardHresko
04-30-2009, 11:44 PM
I can not comment on your Christianity, but mainstream orthodox Christianity would have very serious objections to your characterization.

Consider first of all that Christianity insists on a bodily resurrection. Obviously for a person to be whole in the Christian sense there is a required unity of body and soul.

Second, both Augustine and Aquinas teach us that it is a false dichotomy to present the human being as possessing an evil material body and a pure spiritual soul. Augustine does this in several attacks on the Manicheans (which he knew from the inside, having been a Manichean for perhaps twenty years). Aquinas points out that the soul is what provides form to the body (following Aristotle) and is incomplete without it.

Augustine was perfectly aware of mind-body interactions as he illustrated so well in his Confessions. In Book IX he gives us his pre-conversion prayer, "Lord give me chastity, but not yet!" He also reflected on the simple happiness of a drunkard in Book VIII (I may be mistaken, not having the text in front of me).

You might have a bit better basis for blaming Buddhist thought for the dualism, given that the goal is freedom from the flesh in Eastern mysticism.

NikolaiI
05-01-2009, 12:03 AM
How can we be separate? All life is one. We are part of the universe, and this is the source of mysticism; but we feel as though we are separate. What I am saying, is I disagree with a different kind of duality, not mind/body, but self/other. I think I am separate from all this, but as Einstein says, this is a kind of optical delusion of consciousness.

So the duality I am addressing is different from mind/body, and yet I don't agree with you at all on that one, either. I am not separate from the universe, the universe is one, and separateness is an illusion. Still I also don't agree with the way you've talked about the mind/body duality, making fun of those who think they are a soul.

Of course, and naturally, accepting theoretically comes before realizing directly that I am not separate from the universe. And if I never turn my meditations inward, then I would never question the normal ideas about ego, and I never would have accepted that there is more than my conceptual consciousness.

Glimpses of the true, non-duality of my situation come in brief snatches, for example, in meditation. Perhaps it is a very long spiritual path to enlightenment. Theoretically accepting comes before realizing directly. Theoretically stating it is nothing, this is emphatically stated, nothing at all the same as realizing, as knowing.

Theoretically, and intellectually, arguing, as it seems is your main occupation on these threads, is not at all the same as realizing. And realizing is something which goes beyond theoretically accepting. Realizing makes us aware of something which defies concepts, just as it defies duality. Some, having realized non-duality with the universe, conclude the existence of Soul. And these are ones that you are pooh-poohing with your intellectually condescending attitude, even though they have unearthed the true, pervasive, dualist fallacy - and have realized the Self.