A Definition of Noir

[wateredwhisky]

What exactly is it that defines American "Roman Noir"? It would seem as if most noir novels are loosely based around crime, but it seems like it goes beyond that. Most people try to define it either by some sort of plot-based element (generally grouping it closer towards detective fiction or in the hard-boiled tradition of Hammett, Chandler, etc.) or through ideological means.

However, that doesn't really seem to sufficiently sum up noir. Nightmare Alley by Gresham is loosely based around "crime," but I'm not so keen on assuming that Stanton's actions are necessarily criminal. It would seem like there is some sort of an ideological undercurrent to noir that ends up defining it.

I just read an interesting article the other day while trying to find some answers. The author of the piece, William Marling was actually arguing that a lot of the conventions of the post-WWII noir are actually adopted from film noir, which was originally the brainchild of hard-boiled detective fict. He was noting that a lot of the common tropes of film noir (an emphasis on internal sets, drab and bleak lighting, a focus on still-frame aesthetics) actually ended up influencing their original sources.

It seems as if out of that influence the later noir novels were born, such as Highsmith's Ripley novels or Thompson's The Killer Inside Me that seem to focus less on the "whodunit" but more on the profile of a killer, questioning identity and the law. For example, David Goodis' Down There certainly deals with crime, but the real heart of the novel is about a man continually stuck in varying situations, jostled about by the world around him. That sense of helplessness just seems more pervasive than the crime elements. Is it possible that some of the after-effects of film noir influenced this stronger emphasis on ideological shapings of noir?

[kelby_lake]

Glamorous exotic woman I think would be part.

[Frankie Anne]

I’ve read quite a few articles on what exactly is “noir” - both film and Roman. I’ve read everything Raymond Chandler and James M. Cain ever wrote as well. Both of these authors, as well as Dashiell Hammett, wrote before “film noir” and, in fact, “Double Indemnity” (written by Cain) is considered by many to be the most excellent example of film noir there is, was published in serial form in a magazine in the 30's, before it hit the screen in 1944.

Noir has an element of sex in it as well as crime and violence. Often times, the narrator is a victim of this, as in “Double Indemnity.” Walter Neff kills Phyllis’s husband for her then finds out she is seeing someone else. Though he has committied a crime, he is a victim as well, drawn in by Phyllis’s sexual appeal.

Hammett’s Sam Spade and Chandler’s Phillip Marlowe are detectives in the “hardboiled” genre - confident and cocky, often engaging in violence and confronting danger themselves. If I recall correctly, many of Phillip Marlowe’s clients are, again, beautiful women with an element of danger in them - or at least their circumstances are dangerous. The underlying element of falling for a woman or, at least, being persuaded by her sexuality is a common theme in Roman noir.

I have not read any of the authors that you mention (haven’t read one bit of Gresham) but I cannot see how they could not have been influenced by film noir or by Chandler, Cain or Hammett. Mickey Spillane’s creation of the very popular hard-boiled detective Mike Hammer had to have been influenced by Spade and Marlowe, I would think, both of whom were portrayed in film.

[Sapphire]

The first association that pops up into my mind would be "femme fatale".

I am no expert on the subject though.

[kelby_lake]

Agreed. Maybe a smoky bar...