Your reaction?

[Lokasenna]

I have been a member of this forum for a couple of months now and have thoroughly enjoyed myself. There is, however, something that I always find rather striking, and quite depressing; when I click on 'New Posts' and see the invariable creation of new threads that usually read something like:

"hi i want 2 talk about 'the use of gender in Twelfth Night' any ideas plz?"

Or some derivative thereof. And, needless to say, their post-count is inevitably '1', and they are never heard from again.

Now one of my main reasons for joining this forum was, having stumbled upon it while randomly browsing the net, that I liked the diversity of the community. We have a complete range from enthusiastic amateurs to professional academics, who are all coming together to discuss something that we feel a spiritual involvement in.

Is it not therefore somewhat disheartening to see people so overtly trying to take advantage of our pleasure, providing us with a high-school essay title and a basic platitude? Would any self-respecting thinker, professional or not, be prepared to do someone's work for them, someone whom they do not know, and who will pass off their work as their own? There was even one posted the other day who was offering $50 for someone to do their homework on Julius Cesar - I, for one, would not consider so shamelessly prostituting my mind out, and certainly not to undermine the educational system.

The fact that these people haven't even taken a few moments to look at the long list of mostly unanswered threads would seem to reflect their lack of care about what they do, merely desiring an instant end to the work they do not want to do.

I feel like grabbing them by the metaphorical collar and giving them a shaking. "You have a brain!" I would say, "Use it! Anyone can, if they try! And your work will be so much more satisfying because it is your own work!"

Am I getting disgruntled over nothing? Or do other people feel much the same? I'd be interested to know.

P.S - I hope I posted this in the right place; if I haven't, I'm sorry!

[kasie]

The lazy wotsits actually make me smile, Lokasenna - they think they are being so ingenuous but you can see them coming a mile off! Sometimes I recognise genuine out-of-time panic but I usually hope the poster will have learned his/her lesson and get down to the homework that bit sooner next time. Then there are the ones who are genuinely requesting help and are totally flummoxed and it's a pleasure to try to help them a little - once a teacher, always a teacher, I guess - and I learn a lot by reading other people's replies, as well. Often I find myself being extremely grateful that I am no longer a student - some of those assignments are hard!

[JBI]

You get some interesting things. For instance, a couple weeks ago, someone came in with a question on Don Gutteridge's Poem, "Cornering". Instantly, I realized that someone was to preform a presentation on the poem in one of my classes the next day - I scan the name - the usernames match, and I think - wow, if I help this person, I may actually here my notes spewed back to me in a live presentation the following day. I said nothing, as I had struggled on my presentation (I got an A+ :) so mine didn't go poorly), and figured that person deserved to struggle too.

Of course, this could be taken many ways - for instance, one, I didn't help this person because I knew them. Second, I didn't help them because this would directly affect the class average, and therefore make getting marks harder, and 3rd, because quite simply, I realized that everyone who asks for help is in one way or another trying to cheat.

Asking for answers here is a form of cheating in most cases. Some people are too lazy to do their own reading or research, so treat the boards as a classroom-specific sparknotes. That being said, some people come in with interesting discussions and questions, which are worth answering, or are honest, but the bulk of them are just lazy people who want a specific answer for what their teacher assigned. Had it been assigned to me, I would answer it, but unfortunately, it wasn't. I think I've done my highschool work, and quite honestly, if I want a good mark on an essay, asking for the answer here would be the last place I would look (the first being in the book). It seems that either people are too lazy to go to the library/read their books/do their homework, or that somehow this constitutes proper research.

Now, there are exceptions. For instance, their is a poster who keeps asking questions about her thesis on Alfred Lord Tennyson. That is perhaps better, seeing as how she has come up with an answer, and is asking our opinion of it. Of course, that shows a little insecurity, but it is not the same as, "Help me, I need a thesis on Gender identity in Tennyson, someone please give me one It's due tomorrow!!!!" Still one must wonder about the insecurity of the writer, as one would trust a public with an opinion of an assignment. I guess it is a shyness - as I know if I wanted help creating a thesis probably the first place I would go would be my professor, then my teaching assistant, then critical works, then just straight into the book, and then finally here.

It makes one wonder actually - do people not realize all the answers to assignments come straight out of books already? The internet is probably the worst place to look for answers on anything, unless you are going through databases, and quite simply, if you were, this forum would not come up.

Of course though, I think I am unfair. I take worse to people who come here to get people to read their verses that they scribbled, and then without even reading, simply post them randomly into the poetry forum, and expect people to say how good they are. Those are worse, but really, helpme posts rarely spawn any discussion, as usually the essay topics assigned seem to be so obvious that everyone has already written their own essay on The American Dream in the Great Gatsby, or whatever. It seems that most high school teachers are reading the same lesson plans, actually, as the repeat of questions is actually staggering.

But yeah, perhaps the worst thing though, is they come here, ask for answers, take those answers, mask them as their own, don't say thank you, hand in their essay, and never log back in here. When I think of that, I can't help but wonder why I should waste my time helping people, if they don't even have the decency to stay long enough to say thank you.

[Chava]

I think it's a pity. I've gotten help here before with assignments, but it has always been in the form of a discussion, which inspired me into new directions and observations with the essays.
I think it's quite funny when people make a thread that has a really specific question and then 'invite' the forum goers to discuss. Nice. It is a pity because it takes away from the serious discussions, and who wants to engage in such an unrewarding discussion?
I wouldn't want to help with those questions, and I think it is a huge pity that people do not find literature interesting enough to even think about the questions asked in their assignments, instead waiting for the answer. They don't even think long enough to consider what the question is asking, and reformulating that into a discussion on the litnet. Then why should we care to help them pass their courses?

[librarius_qui]

Is it not therefore somewhat disheartening to see people so overtly trying to take advantage of our pleasure, providing us with a high-school essay title and a basic platitude? Would any self-respecting thinker, professional or not, be prepared to do someone's work for them, someone whom they do not know, and who will pass off their work as their own? There was even one posted the other day who was offering $50 for someone to do their homework on Julius Cesar - I, for one, would not consider so shamelessly prostituting my mind out, and certainly not to undermine the educational system.



This should be reported, and marked as spam.~

[Lokasenna]

If someone wants to discuss something, and they've made the effort to involve themselves, then I have no problem with having a chat! JBI's example of the Tennyson thesis is perfectly commendable - its about the distinction between bouncing your ideas off of other people, and expecting to be spoon-fed inspiration.

@librarius:

Forgive my technical incompetence, but how does one do that? I can't see a button anywhere to let me mark something as spam...

[IJustMadeThatUp]

I am in no position to give people advice, I came here to learn myself. Whenever I have been to the author boards to see what people are discussing in regards to particular books I have read, all I see is a flood of posts saying "help me blah blah blah" all with zero replies. It is very frustrating.

[amalia1985]

I agree with you. It's like some schoolmates of mine when I was in high- school, who used to steal our notebooks to copy the essays in Literature. And I totally agree with Chava, I don't mind reply to a discussion (obviously!), but this direct statement "I have homework, help me!" is somehow disturbing...

[Scheherazade]

I understand your concerns that most of these "help-seekers" do not try to do a little work themselves or bother to come back to say even a simple "thank you" if their questions are answered.

However, the Forum is open to everyone and we cannot bar people from asking for help.

As long-term members, we have two options: we can ignore all such threads or keep faith. In either case, I do not see how they would be taking dvantage of us. They are not trying to get our attention under false excuses or promises.

If we choose to help, then it is like doing a good deed (an intellectual "charity"). If we choose to ignore them (we don't even need to click on such threads), we can carry on without our usual posting and that's that.

One thing is certain, though: requests for help cannot be treated as spam or those people cannot be banned from this site.

If you do not consider them worthy of your time and energy, please feel free to ignore.

[sprinks]

I've asked for help a few times here. Never like that though. I think the most disappointing thing is that it's normally their first or second post and they never return, even if people help.

[Lokasenna]

@Scheherazade:
Sorry if I sound whiny - that was not the idea! I'm not complaining (well, not in a pro-active sense anyway). I'm just genuinely interested on how other react to the phenomenon.

As for those of you who say here that you've asked for help, then let me say that your participation, intelligence (and post count!) all speak for you not being spongers!

[Tournesol]

I agree with both of you Lokasenna and Scheherazade

I have no problems in helping them, we all need a little hand now and then.

But I think what Lokasenna is saying is that they seem to not try for themselves.

And I see this in my students: there is no desire to learn the process of literary analysis and discussion. And perhaps it's a bit disgusting for some of us [who crave literary analysis as a way of life] that there are some out there who just want the grade.

[subterranean]

One or two years ago (I cant remember exactly when), I assisted someone in writing his final paper and I did this because I was also interested the subject he chose. So I did some readings myself to help him out. I receieved a thank you message for that, which I gladly accepted. Then I apparently, he took further study and then he contacted me for another assignment. Interesting topic still, yet since I was really busy, I just said to him I didn't have time for it.

[librarius_qui]

However, the Forum is open to everyone and we cannot bar people from asking for help.

As long-term members, we have two options: we can ignore all such threads or keep faith. In either case, I do not see how they would be taking dvantage of us. They are not trying to get our attention under false excuses or promises.

If we choose to help, then it is like doing a good deed (an intellectual "charity"). If we choose to ignore them (we don't even need to click on such threads), we can carry on without our usual posting and that's that.



"This forum is open" is an interesting way of governing, and it's what makes of LitNet, however a place hugely populated, an interesting place to be. It's got to give you moderators quite a lot of hardwork in dealing with people, but "thank-(a)-god" you manage.






One thing is certain, though: requests for help cannot be treated as spam or those people cannot be banned from this site.

If you do not consider them worthy of your time and energy, please feel free to ignore.

Indeed, I don't know what happens when a message is reported as spam. (I never did). I know there's a button, or a hyperlink option, I don't know. I hope it simply informs moderators that that is a suspect message, but I don't actually know if it's somehow marked ...

I agree with Sheherazade: it's required a lot of responsability to judge and sentence a message as spam, in a forum. It's much more interesting to ignore it. or try, if you have the time or the disposition to do that, to show the person what you think about the message. Someone asked not long ago what language we recommend him to learn, and I answered that it depends on his mentality, personality and plans of life, and that noone could give this answer to him. Most people, however, talked about the languages they themselves would like to learn next ... That day, I wasn't in the mood to talk about myself. Besides, the question wasn't about me, ir my tastes for language.

So, Loki, the matter is a bit .. "socially" (or civilly) complicated. It's good. It makes us think (and learn) what's to be a citizen, in a written place.

Lq.~

[maraki16]

i think i have never asked for help concerning an assignment. well, maybe it also has to do with what our teachers ask for. we don't have many assignments in literary classes yet. but i wrote my first short assignment on theory and literary criticism about half a month ago. yes, it was not the easiest thing to do, but i did it. asking from other people's view is something that i find very insecure. unfortunately, i only trust my self when it comes to such matters. of course, virgil told me that he would be really glad to help me when i mentioned the difficulty that i find with american poetry and how insufficient the notes i keep in class seem to me(yeah, i am a notes-freak!), and tht i find some difficulty in literary criticism. yet, i do not think that i would ask for help in this forum, just because i don't think it would be useful. it would be more useful to ask for help concerning writing poetry, or perhaps an opinion on an essay i have written(and that of course only with PM and to specific users).
once, i helped someone who had to answer some questions on pride & prejudice. obviously, he had never read the book, and i answered the questions though i had read it some three or four years ago. i started making an analysis of the answers, and then he told me it was just a multiple choice and they did not have to explain and analyze their answers. he thanked me(ok, that was good), and told me he would let me know how he did. almost a year has passed. i still have not received his reply....

[Michael T]

I find great pleasure in attemping to lead these students in the right direction when I can. I think the trick is to give them a couple of ideas, just enough to get them thinking. I imagine that sitting alone at home with a novel or poem you have just been asked to analyze can be quite daunting for some. Hopefully a few little snippets will spark their brain cells into life. I always live in the hope that once set off on the right track they will come to realise the depth and beauty of good literature and learn to love it. Having said that, I left some comment on Keats' Ode to Autumn for one such thread yesterday...only to find it was originally posted in 2006!

[JBI]

I understand your concerns that most of these "help-seekers" do not try to do a little work themselves or bother to come back to say even a simple "thank you" if their questions are answered.

However, the Forum is open to everyone and we cannot bar people from asking for help.

As long-term members, we have two options: we can ignore all such threads or keep faith. In either case, I do not see how they would be taking dvantage of us. They are not trying to get our attention under false excuses or promises.

If we choose to help, then it is like doing a good deed (an intellectual "charity"). If we choose to ignore them (we don't even need to click on such threads), we can carry on without our usual posting and that's that.

One thing is certain, though: requests for help cannot be treated as spam or those people cannot be banned from this site.

If you do not consider them worthy of your time and energy, please feel free to ignore.
Are we allowed then, to give creative answers? In other words, can I say that Heathcliff's descent into revenge comes about by a chemical imbalance within him, causing him to question his sexuality, and thereby forces him to either accept a new aspect of himself, or cling to his previously held facade of loving Catherine?

Am I allowed to be really creative, and not perhaps give the most scholarly of answers, or is that against the rules?

[Scheherazade]

Are we allowed then, to give creative answers? In other words, can I say that Heathcliff's descent into revenge comes about by a chemical imbalance within him, causing him to question his sexuality, and thereby forces him to either accept a new aspect of himself, or cling to his previously held facade of loving Catherine?

Am I allowed to be really creative, and not perhaps give the most scholarly of answers, or is that against the rules?Yes, trollish behaviour is against the Forum rules.

[librarius_qui]

Someone, once, asked (publicly, in a thread) for help in his grad speech. Now, THAT'S very interesting. Much more interesting. (I didn't pay attention, by then .. don't know why, 'cause I usually get interested by this .. Zapping around, once, I found the thread. Even so, once it was past, I never read it ...)

Mary said something interesting. This is an interesting place for friendship and creation. To me, better than to school work. Then again .. I didn't grow up with internet. When I studied, I didn't have such tool.

It's interesting to notice that we have, in a way, to lead and teach youngsters to behave, in this space, which is .. kind of new to all of us.

(What?, hugely spread like this? 10 years?, 15 in the States, perhaps?)

Interesting subject, this one.~



[

...

round and round we go... silly, these threads... A new user asking for help, and then never to be seen again.

and I am in an odd mood. My apologies for the rambling.

Now, I found this quite sad. I'm beginning to think that either:

1. there should be a specific board for this kind of question ("first question", "help board", "tasks help board" (...));

2. there should be a more strict moderation on this for some time, to see if the thing gets better;

3. there should be a fee to join the forum; (I make part of another forum that has a fee, and it's quite a civilized place; people seem to respect a little more the place, not to mention that not everybody simply joins out of curiosity or other interests ... they obviously think twice, and give up).

(I think it was a 6 Euro fee, when I joined.)

It IS getting a little weird to keep stumbling on this kind of thread ...


Lq~]

[Lokasenna]

Charging, eh? I suppose it would also get rid of those annoying robot posters that are trying to flog you something...