You and I are twined, yet separate

[PrinceMyshkin]

The butcher doesn’t know
what the seed-farmer needs.
The hunter stands apart
from the heart of his prey

And you and I are twined
yet as separate
as the furthest stars
that did once and still
operate on each other.

[Sapphire]

Wow...

I really like the imagery, though that is probably not the right word for it. I guess I should say comparison, but it creates such a strong image in my head. I could hear a heart beating in that 4th line.

And then the stars - I think that idea will stick to my head: people you once knew and was close with, now as reminiscent as the stars (which also, long agoo, were close to one another, interacting). But then in your words, for they really capture it.

Thank you very much for sharing,
Sapphire.

[PrinceMyshkin]

Wow...

I really like the imagery, though that is probably not the right word for it. I guess I should say comparison, but it creates such a strong image in my head. I could hear a heart beating in that 4th line.

And then the stars - I think that idea will stick to my head: people you once knew and was close with, now as reminiscent as the stars (which also, long agoo, were close to one another, interacting). But then in your words, for they really capture it.

Thank you very much for sharing,
Sapphire.

thank you so much, Sapphire! (The only other Sapphire I know is my next to youngest grand-child, so I have ample reason to love that name.)

[jon1jt]

First of all how else is a hunter supposed to kill his prey other than stand apart from it. So you toss in, "the heart of." Deep. :rolleyes:


And yet as separate
as the furthest stars


Are stars not far enough for you, Prince? Sort of like that boldtype...I'm getting to that in a second. What about this seed-farmer?...would his brother happen to be a tractor-farmer and his father a hay-farmer too? The butcher-farmer line is so awful. The poem is so awful.

The next time you boldface your poem, Prince, know that it doesn't produce a great poem. I leave it to you to figure out what does.

[Lokasenna]

First of all how else is a hunter supposed to kill his prey other than stand apart from it. So you toss in, "the heart of." Deep. :rolleyes:

Are stars not far enough for you, Prince? Sort of like that boldtype...I'm getting to that in a second. What about this seed-farmer?...would his brother happen to be a tractor-farmer and his father a hay-farmer too? The butcher-farmer line is so awful. The poem is so awful.

The next time you boldface your poem, Prince, know that it doesn't produce a great poem. I leave it to you to figure out what does.

I really don't think that's fair!

Well, I for one liked it. I think it has a beautiful symmetry. The first stanza gives the impression of an ever growing distance, which is countered by the second's realization that distance is, in many ways, illusionary; it is all about truly coming together.

[PrinceMyshkin]

I really don't think that's fair!

Well, I for one liked it. I think it has a beautiful symmetry. The first stanza gives the impression of an ever growing distance, which is countered by the second's realization that distance is, in many ways, illusionary; it is all about truly coming together.

Many thanks for your defense. I'd like to think that the poem is its own best defense, but your support is welcome.

About the distance between the stars, that was inspired by an experiment in Quantum Dynamics, in which a particle was split in two, each half sent as remote as possible from each other and yet they continued to behave as if they were one.

[qimissung]

I like your poem; but then, I always like your poems.

I love the idea about particles that you encompssed in those few words; it's just the kind of thing I like to try to do.

[PrinceMyshkin]

I like your poem; but then, I always like your poems.

I love the idea about particles that you encompssed in those few words; it's just the kind of thing I like to try to do.

Many thanks, Q., I'd have appreciated this at any time but it's especially welcome after some of the earlier activity on this thread.

[Silas Thorne]

Hi Prince. Of course you're referring to Jon's emotional outburst on another thread in response to some of your comments, and harsh criticism of your poem here.

While I was also rather confused by your use of the word 'seed-farmer' here too, I particularly like the second stanza. I find it beautiful. It seemed even to be a poem in itself. Is that 'twined' from 'twin'?

[PrinceMyshkin]

Hi Prince. Of course you're referring to Jon's emotional outburst on another thread in response to some of your comments, and harsh criticism of your poem here.

Yes, the less said about that, the better.


While I was also rather confused by your use of the word 'seed-farmer' here too,

To tell you the embarrassing truth, I don't really know if such a vocation exists, as distinct, that is, from a farmer plain and simple, but I needed something that would sound as remote as possible from a butcher


I particularly like the second stanza. I find it beautiful. It seemed even to be a poem in itself. Is that 'twined' from 'twin'?

No, that would have been "twinned." I haven't actually checked it out but I intended it to convey bound together as with twine.

[Virgil]

I'm not getting into the back and forth. [I saw conflict and I scootted off before I get into trouble somehow. ;) Prince I think this poem is exceptional. The song quality of the openning stanza (not sure why it rings of song for me, I think it's the metrics) sets you up but then never follows through metrically in the following stanza. Now some might think that's a problem but I don't and I don't think Prince does either. It really heightens the contrast between what is said in that first stanza and what comes after. And yet while the contrast is the point, I can't help but feel despite the difference the twins have they also have connection with the analogies made in the first, so that the twins both hold the analogy and diverge from it. I hope that made sense. This is a remarkable work of aesthetics Prince. Outstanding.

[PrinceMyshkin]

I'm not getting into the back and forth. [I saw conflict and I scootted off before I get into trouble somehow. ;) Prince I think this poem is exceptional. The song quality of the openning stanza (not sure why it rings of song for me, I think it's the metrics) sets you up but then never follows through metrically in the following stanza. Now some might think that's a problem but I don't and I don't think Prince does either. It really heightens the contrast between what is said in that first stanza and what comes after. And yet while the contrast is the point, I can't help but feel despite the difference the twins have they also have connection with the analogies made in the first, so that the twins both hold the analogy and diverge from it. I hope that made sense. This is a remarkable work of aesthetics Prince. Outstanding.

Somewhat lost in the mists of memory is something I once read, either by Paul Valery or Paul Verlaine: “I would rather write a second-rate work in full possession of my senses than a masterpiece in a trance.”

I understood - and to some extent, initially - sympathized with the sentiment, the wish to claim full, conscious responsibility for every noun, verb, comma, &c. in something one had written. But a couple of fallacies soon occurred to me: 1) Wasn’t it more admirable to present humankind with a masterpiece if one could, than to exalt one’s ego? And 2), more significantly, is one ever not to some degree in a “trance” when one creates? You can try to shut the door on your subconscious, but it has more doors than you can ever shut.

I don’t mean to claim that any part of this poem or the whole of it is a masterpiece, but you have discerned, between stanzas one and two, something of the history of my making it. The first two lines popped into my head one morning as I was between sleep and waking. I had no idea what they meant (if anything). They were a gift to me from my subconscious, conceived or at least delivered in a trance.

As soon as I got to my computer and entered those lines, the next two followed as if they’d already been waiting...

And then I was in trouble. I could see various ways in which those four lines could be built on - logically, but logic, the full light of consciousness, produced nothing but salt that had lost its savour, and I couldn’t put myself in a trance, and I discarded one attempt after another. But after several days, the opening of the 2nd stanza presented itself and the rest of it followed. So, I think, conscious and subconscious worked together, the former essentially as a censor, with the wisdom to hold back, to wait...

But none of the foregoing does justice to the marvellous argument you make in defending the poem against the charge of incongruity that could be made, that indeed you yourself make, between stanzas 1 & 2.

[MissTwain]

Theres so much subtext in your poetry I feel like I need a translator. I viewed your first "snapshots" poem as well and I was reminded of a vignette in the film "Paris, Je T'aime" have you seen it? If not, I suggest it. It is like a book of poetry.

I feel like I have much to learn from your poetry. Behind your words comes a subtle wisdom of the connection of people that can only come from experience...

[Niamh]

Hummm... on a reread of this poem, i really really like the second stanza. :thumbs_up

[PrinceMyshkin]

Theres so much subtext in your poetry I feel like I need a translator. I viewed your first "snapshots" poem as well and I was reminded of a vignette in the film "Paris, Je T'aime" have you seen it? If not, I suggest it. It is like a book of poetry.

Off-hand I don't remember seeing it but might look it up. These days I mostly see films that I record off of one of the movie challs on TV.


I feel like I have much to learn from your poetry. Behind your words comes a subtle wisdom of the connection of people that can only come from experience...

I feel truly honoured that you would think that and feel there are others here from whom you might learn, but it is evident from your own unmistakeable voice that you have already learned much & will almost certainly continue to learn from your own heart and eyes...