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coberst
03-14-2009, 08:54 AM
Ignorance, apathy, and irresponsibility

I claim that the citizens of the US (and probably most other Western style democracies) cannot continue with the level of apathy, ignorance, and irresponsibility that has been the condition with past generations. Technology and population conditions demand that the citizens of democracies must become more intellectually sophisticated if we hope for the species to survive beyond the next 200 years.

I think that a cursory examination of the twentieth century and our present conflict with what are labeled as terrorists dictate that we can no longer afford the luxury of the apathetic slumber that is characteristic of today’s citizens.

I also think that we can no longer afford to indulge in the very long incubation period that our species provides to the young. It is not unusual for youth today to remain less than responsible adults well beyond their twentieth year.

The inertia of the present customs and culture make it almost impossible for these changes to take place from the top down. I think that if drastic change is to take place it rests upon the new generations to force that change.

Young people can do this by quickly becoming more self-reliant, courageous, and enlightened citizens. They can do this through the development of a hobby that I call self-actualizing self-learning. They can do this by quickly becoming more intellectually sophisticated. All of this requires a larger dose of curiosity and caring.

Judas130
03-14-2009, 01:29 PM
Ignorance, apathy, and irresponsibility

I claim that the citizens of the US (and probably most other Western style democracies) cannot continue with the level of apathy, ignorance, and irresponsibility that has been the condition with past generations. Technology and population conditions demand that the citizens of democracies must become more intellectually sophisticated if we hope for the species to survive beyond the next 200 years.

I think that a cursory examination of the twentieth century and our present conflict with what are labeled as terrorists dictate that we can no longer afford the luxury of the apathetic slumber that is characteristic of today’s citizens.

I also think that we can no longer afford to indulge in the very long incubation period that our species provides to the young. It is not unusual for youth today to remain less than responsible adults well beyond their twentieth year.
I know you refer primarily to the states, but I am 17 years old and a resident in the UK, and I whole-heartedly agree with you. Ignorance, apathy, and irresponsibility are indeed the bane of mankind, for without care and a search for discovery, and some responsibility, there is little to stop the world resource becoming consumed to the last point that the species declines from surplus population.
Citizens of my generation have been tainted by the underage child birth rates, and how many young, unsupported parents there are of my age. essentially, Children giving birth to children. It is the taxpayer that pays for this, as those of my age sit back and enjoy a life of state payed benefits and do nothing but stay at home and binge drink on the weekends. What hope is there for the future of my generation? There is no self-reliance, no independence, we have grown addicted to a spoon-fed way of living, growing fat with dead end indulgences.


The inertia of the present customs and culture make it almost impossible for these changes to take place from the top down. I think that if drastic change is to take place it rests upon the new generations to force that change.

Young people can do this by quickly becoming more self-reliant, courageous, and enlightened citizens. They can do this through the development of a hobby that I call self-actualizing self-learning. They can do this by quickly becoming more intellectually sophisticated. All of this requires a larger dose of curiosity and caring.

As the older generations grow older, soon they shall not be able to teach the young. When the task of education falls upon us, only some shall be able to maintain a standard, while still relying heavily upon our elders. self-actualizing/ self-learning needs to be implemented now, and can not possibly wait, for we clearly do not have time.

peace.

mono
03-14-2009, 02:38 PM
Ignorance, apathy, and irresponsibility

I claim that the citizens of the US (and probably most other Western style democracies) cannot continue with the level of apathy, ignorance, and irresponsibility that has been the condition with past generations. Technology and population conditions demand that the citizens of democracies must become more intellectually sophisticated if we hope for the species to survive beyond the next 200 years.

I think that a cursory examination of the twentieth century and our present conflict with what are labeled as terrorists dictate that we can no longer afford the luxury of the apathetic slumber that is characteristic of today’s citizens.

I also think that we can no longer afford to indulge in the very long incubation period that our species provides to the young. It is not unusual for youth today to remain less than responsible adults well beyond their twentieth year.

The inertia of the present customs and culture make it almost impossible for these changes to take place from the top down. I think that if drastic change is to take place it rests upon the new generations to force that change.

Young people can do this by quickly becoming more self-reliant, courageous, and enlightened citizens. They can do this through the development of a hobby that I call self-actualizing self-learning. They can do this by quickly becoming more intellectually sophisticated. All of this requires a larger dose of curiosity and caring.
As much as I respect your thought, and enjoy reading your posts, coberst, I feel relieved that you began your post with "I claim," because most of it consists of opinion more than fact.
Of course, not to reference current politics too much, and I would not call myself the proudest American, the country has definitely dug itself in a hole these past decades; we have had some highs and lows, these past 8 years seeming more a low than a high, of course. Democracy rules on 'majority rules' basis, so if 50.1% of a population chooses this way to rule, 49.9% of the population will feel bound to dissatisfaction. With approval rates plummeting of current politics (though in 2009, they seem to have improved - likely not a coincidence), the economy showing difficult times, unemployment rates rising, wars amid us, global warming, it seems a challenge to feel optimistic.
Despite what country an individual comes from, I think it safe to say that everyone will attempt to find the easiest way out of a problem; success varies. With poor hope, scant resources, and no virtue, the success of solving a problem will worsen. Here, I apply Sissela Bok's philosophy written of in Lying of "spread and abuse" - once an individual gets used to something, s/he continues it. My apartment looks very messy right now with dirty dishes in the sink, unfolded clothes here and there, books and papers spread everywhere, and it looked less messy yesterday; I should have cleaned it yesterday, but got busy, after which I felt too tired to clean. Right now, I obviously type on my laptop amid this mess - spread and abuse: I have gotten used to this disastrous-looking place, despite feeling uncomfortable with it (but I will clean it today, definitely! :D).
Motivation to improve does not originate from space, but from the realization that things can look better with enough hard work, yet, as stated, we attempt to find the easiest, simplest means out of a problem; even after the discovery of a possible solution, the majority must agree upon it, at least 50%. Will we feel satisfied with it afterwards, if it succeeds, according to that over 50% of the population? That percent will, but not the potentially 49-something% of the population.
What I want to say: everyone will never feel satisfied, because even if two votes have equality, two individuals do not have equality - even Plato's Republic had faults. I agree, we should not "spread and abuse" into ignorance, apathy, or irresponsibility, but I believe we have potential - the female army of Rosie the Riveter maintained jobs and homes while the blue-collar workers fought in WWII, medical science has gained the upperhand in germ warfare, international ties have improved, and, despite what the rest of the world says, Chrysler, an American company, first adopted biodiesel, and General Motors adopted electric cars 3 years after their introduction to the world in mass production.
Our minds function on a cause-effect basis, and the more we focus on the problem, the less we focus on the solution; merely talking about it on a literature forum, let alone giving vague advice of how we need to improve, will not fix a thing, but as Mahatma Mohandes K. Gandhi popularly said, "you must be the change you wish to see in the world" - additionally my signature comes from a quotation by Robert Ingersoll, "the hands that help are holier than the lips that pray."

Emmy Castrol
03-17-2009, 11:56 PM
I've noticed this too and I call it the 'middle class mentality' (for want of a better term).

Ignorance, apathy, irresponsibility and carelessness are all characteristics of the middle class mentality.

I have found many of these people living as if there were chasing a dream and they are more obsessed with achieving this dream that they do not realising they are idolising it. Those of them who claim to have no need of God are merely idolising something else in its place and those who do claim to be Christian ('middle-class Christianity') do not realise that they are at risk of worshipping not God, but their middle class idea of God.

blazeofglory
03-20-2009, 01:18 AM
Of course these things are aplenty with the citizens of the US, and more than with the rest of people. For this is a country where people are swayed more by greed than responsibility and that is why there is abrasion in value and more and more people run after wealth. Hence the meltdown we see these days.

coberst
03-20-2009, 08:45 AM
Of course these things are aplenty with the citizens of the US, and more than with the rest of people. For this is a country where people are swayed more by greed than responsibility and that is why there is abrasion in value and more and more people run after wealth. Hence the meltdown we see these days.

I would say that a great deal of this is the result of teaching young people what to think rather than how to think. We (America) do not teach CT (Critical Thinking) in our schools and colleges and thus people are not sophisticated enough to create sophisticated values.

Emmy Castrol
03-23-2009, 07:26 PM
There is too much importance being placed on the intellect, which I think is partly responsible for the condition of the developed world today.

I think it is more an exercise for the heart (the spirit) than the intellect. Only through sympathy, compassion and love will people become more responsible, sensitive and considerate towards the people around them.

coberst
03-24-2009, 05:19 AM
There is too much importance being placed on the intellect, which I think is partly responsible for the condition of the developed world today.

I think it is more an exercise for the heart (the spirit) than the intellect. Only through sympathy, compassion and love will people become more responsible, sensitive and considerate towards the people around them.

But if they are unsophisticated they will not know how to respond.

Scheherazade
03-24-2009, 08:26 AM
Define "unsophisticated", please?

coberst
03-24-2009, 12:42 PM
Define "unsophisticated", please?


I think that we can usefully use the handyman and his tool box as an analogy for communicating my meaning for the word “sophistication”.

If we think of the contents of the handyman’s toolbox as indicating his intelligence and the number of tools that he has the experience and skill to use well as an indication of his sophistication you can see what I mean by sophistication.

Each handyman is born with a box full of tools, some handymen have more tools and some have less. It is the case that no handyman has developed the experience and skill to use all the tools in the box. If the handyman has only learned to hammer stuff then he is very unsophisticated and will hammer any job he tries to do. The more tools that he is experienced and skilled with the more jobs he can do well.

Emmy Castrol
03-24-2009, 08:01 PM
If the handyman has only learned to hammer stuff then he is very unsophisticated and will hammer any job he tries to do. The more tools that he is experienced and skilled with the more jobs he can do well.

I suppose the key word here is 'the job'. If 'the job' is to contribute to the world being less ignorant, less apathetic and more responsible I don't believe a high level of sophistication is necessary.

I do not believe there is necessary correlation between education (improving the mind) and increased sensitivity and consideration in a person. Education and the intellect are mere tools and instruments for the desires of humankind. If the desires of a person are selfish, then the intellect will be used to obtain their selfish desire. However, if the desire of a person is please an ideal which they consider important, the instrument of the intellect may be used to achieve this end. The 'desire' is the driving point, not the intellectual sophistication of a person.

Also, I suspect that out of the three - intellect, body and spirit - the intellect is the most closely entwined with personal ego. For that matter, we must be especially cautious with the intellect.

I do agree with you in the case that intellectual sophistication may be required should an individual want to express an idea in a general way (e.g. in a book) to reach the public. But then, one would have to consider the target demographic for a philosophical text. The average handyman (although I'm sure there's several out there who might have a penchant for reading philosophical literature) would not be likely to pick up a philosophical book so if one was to be written, it would more likely appeal to e.g. a fellow philosophical writer. Here, we must be careful, because of the association between intellect and personal ego. Some people have defined themselves by how intellectual they esteem themselves to be so it may be very difficult to persuade them to detach from the intellect and to view it as a tool only.

But to get back to 'the job' - as long as a person has the education level to be able to read the bible (and they don't even need this but it just makes it easier) they have the capability to be more considerate to all the world about them.

motherhubbard
03-24-2009, 08:48 PM
I also think that we can no longer afford to indulge in the very long incubation period that our species provides to the young. It is not unusual for youth today to remain less than responsible adults well beyond their twentieth year.


Young people can do this by quickly becoming more self-reliant, courageous, and enlightened citizens. They can do this through the development of a hobby that I call self-actualizing self-learning. They can do this by quickly becoming more intellectually sophisticated. All of this requires a larger dose of curiosity and caring.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I think we should consider a few very important elements of maturity and self actualization.

First of all, the human brain doesn’t fully mature until somewhere in the early twenties. Here is a brief reference http://www.livescience.com/health/060206_brain_mature.html . This article says that the brain is developed by age 12, that means wired, but doesn’t mature the early 20s http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/253786/new_studies_shows_human_brain_reaches.html .

The second issue is self-actualization. This is something I’m always striving for and I find that the quest is very satisfying. But some things have to happen first. Look at Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.
http://meerasinha.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/800px-maslows_hierarchy_of_needssvg.png
Basic needs must be met before someone can achieve self-actualization. That doesn’t happen in front of a Television or at the Mall or McDonalds which is were a lot of youths spend their time. I know that Americans have a lot of stuff, but that doesn’t mean they have anything they need.

coberst
03-25-2009, 07:45 AM
I suppose the key word here is 'the job'. If 'the job' is to contribute to the world being less ignorant, less apathetic and more responsible I don't believe a high level of sophistication is necessary.

I do not believe there is necessary correlation between education (improving the mind) and increased sensitivity and consideration in a person. Education and the intellect are mere tools and instruments for the desires of humankind. If the desires of a person are selfish, then the intellect will be used to obtain their selfish desire. However, if the desire of a person is please an ideal which they consider important, the instrument of the intellect may be used to achieve this end. The 'desire' is the driving point, not the intellectual sophistication of a person.

Also, I suspect that out of the three - intellect, body and spirit - the intellect is the most closely entwined with personal ego. For that matter, we must be especially cautious with the intellect.

I do agree with you in the case that intellectual sophistication may be required should an individual want to express an idea in a general way (e.g. in a book) to reach the public. But then, one would have to consider the target demographic for a philosophical text. The average handyman (although I'm sure there's several out there who might have a penchant for reading philosophical literature) would not be likely to pick up a philosophical book so if one was to be written, it would more likely appeal to e.g. a fellow philosophical writer. Here, we must be careful, because of the association between intellect and personal ego. Some people have defined themselves by how intellectual they esteem themselves to be so it may be very difficult to persuade them to detach from the intellect and to view it as a tool only.

But to get back to 'the job' - as long as a person has the education level to be able to read the bible (and they don't even need this but it just makes it easier) they have the capability to be more considerate to all the world about them.


I would say that the main job for all citizens is to become good citizens.

In a democracy good citizens are required to make good decisions. To make good decisions depends upon our ability to think cogently and clearly. CT (Critical Thinking) is the art and science of good judgment. Part of being a good citizen is studying the art and science of good judgment. This is also the foundation for intellectual sophistication.

Motherhubbard

I do not think that we can afford the luxury for the brain to become "fully matured" before we must demand that a person become a responsible citizen long before thier early twenties.

RobinHood3000
03-25-2009, 08:47 AM
Personally, I think that perhaps the best means for us Americans to become more enlightened is to get out of the country more. We're so insular the way we are now - we expect everyone to come here, but we never go anywhere else except to take leisure and we come back to criticize and judge.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness."

motherhubbard
03-25-2009, 08:51 AM
Motherhubbard

I do not think that we can afford the luxury for the brain to become "fully matured" before we must demand that a person become a responsible citizen long before thier early twenties.

Brain maturity is a luxury? I don’t think so. As a parent I would that my children postpone serious, lifelong decisions until their brains are mature. I would say that by sticking people in mature situations before their brains have the capacity to deal with it damaging society. I would say it’s not very responsible.

And just what is a responsible citizen. My fourteen year old volunteers her time, donates a portion of her money, makes good grades, is respectful, and stays out of trouble so I would call her responsible. That doesn’t mean she’s ready to run a household or work full time. What is “long” before early twenties? This argument makes as much since as saying that we need to demand that all six month olds walk because we can’t afford the luxury of physical development. After all, there are some who can walk at six months. Those other babies are slackers who just want their parents to carry them around all t he time, worthless little tikes.

SleepyWitch
03-25-2009, 09:01 AM
I would say that the main job for all citizens is to become good citizens.

......


yep, but in a democracy, people are free to do what they want as long as it's not something illegal. So what if some people do not want to be good (i.e. well-informed, critical) citizens because they find politics boring or because they feel politician's decisions don't affect their lives anyway or whatever? Does that mean they should emigrate as in "Well if you don't want to be a 'good citizen' of this country, go somewhere else?" As if anyone had much of a choice. Even if you emigrate to another country, you'll always be a citizen somewhere (unless you're [un]fortunate enough to be from countries like Sierra Leone and have lost your passport).
I'm not talking about those who don't have access to information (e.g. because they are from a disempowered background) but about your average man on the street. If people who are well-educated enough to participate in politics etc. are nontheless apathetic, that's up to them. In a democracy you can't force people to participate if they don't want to. Not even if their own interests are at stake. So if they don't stand up for what ought to be their interests, why be a missionary?
Maybe this issue is an inherent problem in representative democracies: we vote for politicians to represent us. So why do politicians and intellectuals keep telling us we should be more enlightened, self-reliant, critical, good citizens? Don't we elect politicians to sort out our issues for us? Isn't that what they get paid for? Why should we worry our own heads off when we've got politicians to do it for us?

Scheherazade
03-25-2009, 12:01 PM
I think that we can usefully use the handyman and his tool box as an analogy for communicating my meaning for the word “sophistication”. Thank you very much for picking up an anology to answer me but my not-so-very-sophicticated brain cannot grasp what you are trying to get at. Could you please define it without using an anology and explain why you think "unsophisticated" people cannot be good citizens?


I would say that the main job for all citizens is to become good citizens. Who determines what a good citizen is? Does the citizen get a say in that? Or our betters in Washington, London and in all the other capital cities of the world tell us what we need to do to be a good citizen? What happens if they decide that a good citizen works 60 hours a week, gives away 60% of his/her income as tax and cannot have more than one child?
Maybe this issue is an inherent problem in representative democracies: we vote for politicians to represent us. So why do politicians and intellectuals keep telling us we should be more enlightened, self-reliant, critical, good citizens? Don't we elect politicians to sort out our issues for us? Isn't that what they get paid for? Why should we worry our own heads off when we've got politicians to do it for us?Sleepy, this is a good point, I think, and one of the problems of democratic systems: In theory, the representatives are supposed to do just that: represent. However, it hardly works that way, doesn't it? It mostly feels like "us vs them (ie politicians)".

I think being more enlightened and critical helps us to question our "betters" in capital cities; however, once the representatives take their place in the capital, there is little the citizen can do to get in touch directly with those who are chosen or say that "you are not doing what you are supposed to be doing" or take the "representative" title away... Not at least till next elections.

Emmy Castrol
03-26-2009, 12:12 AM
I actually think being a 'good citizen' is not enough to overcome ignorance, apathy and irresponsibility. It must be a universal movement; they must be a 'good person', a good representative of humankind. This would make the political boundaries set by the word 'citizen' irrelevant.

coberst
03-26-2009, 06:21 AM
Could you please define it without using an anology and explain why you think "unsophisticated" people cannot be good citizens?

.


In a democracy the citizens have the final veto. If the citizen has poor judgment then the decisions are poor and we get into problems such as our present financial crisis.

Scheherazade
03-26-2009, 07:57 PM
In a democracy the citizens have the final veto. If the citizen has poor judgment then the decisions are poor and we get into problems such as our present financial crisis.I have to admit I am a little confused here. You mean unsophisticated = anyone with poor judgement?

coberst
03-27-2009, 03:29 AM
I have to admit I am a little confused here. You mean unsophisticated = anyone with poor judgement?

I think that we can usefully use the handyman and his tool box as an analogy for communicating my meaning for the word “sophistication”.

If we think of the contents of the handyman’s toolbox as indicating his intelligence and the number of tools that he has the experience and skill to use well as an indication of his sophistication you can see what I mean by sophistication.

Each handyman is born with a box full of tools, some handymen have more tools and some have less. It is the case that no handyman has developed the experience and skill to use all the tools in the box. If the handyman has only learned to hammer stuff then he is very unsophisticated and will hammer any job he tries to do. The more tools that he is experienced and skilled with the more jobs he can do well.

theatrics
03-27-2009, 09:28 AM
Yes sir! We are an ignorant bunch, and not just our youth, although they are faring worse than adults. Youth do not read anymore, case and point.
America WILL fall behind
We need to replace xbox, iPods etc for books, schoolwork, and just simple reflection time.

Scheherazade
03-30-2009, 12:50 PM
I think that we can usefully use the handyman and his tool box as an analogy for communicating my meaning for the word “sophistication”. Have you run out of arguments or are you being facetious by posting the same post again?

Lust Hogg
03-30-2009, 04:26 PM
Well, if you don't know what his definition of unsophisticated is, why don't you assume he means the opposite of sophisticated. I think Coberst is suggesting that uninformed automatons, lacking any critical abilities, are perhaps not damaging to some society, but given the availabilities present to a citizen of a democracy, they are not satisfying all of their potentialities. Unsophisticated would therefore seem to mean those individual's who choose not to exercise every available option that exists in any given democracy. Of course, its every individuals right not exercise their various rights, such as to vote, to care, or generally contribute in any way. Maybe that's what he means

coberst
03-30-2009, 04:37 PM
Have you run out of arguments or are you being facetious by posting the same post again?


I was responding to your question. Your question indicated to me that you had not read my post explaning the meaning of sophistication.

Scheherazade
03-30-2009, 04:59 PM
Well, if you don't know what his definition of unsophisticated is, why don't you assume he means the opposite of sophisticated. I think Coberst is suggesting that uninformed automatons, lacking any critical abilities, are perhaps not damaging to some society, but given the availabilities present to a citizen of a democracy, they are not satisfying all of their potentialities. Unsophisticated would therefore seem to mean those individual's who choose not to exercise every available option that exists in any given democracy. Of course, its every individuals right not exercise their various rights, such as to vote, to care, or generally contribute in any way. Maybe that's what he meansWell, I was brought up not to do just that. You know what they say about assuming.

I was responding to your question. Your question indicated to me that you had not read my post explaning the meaning of sophistication.In my post, I explained that I had read your post but wanted you to explain without making use of an anology.

If you are not willing to discuss things, why post/start thread after thread?

coberst
03-31-2009, 07:23 AM
If you are not willing to discuss things, why post/start thread after thread?

Some questions are designed to facilitate comprehension and some are designed to inhibit comprehension. Our (American) educational system has left us with severe learning handicaps, fear of learning new stuff is one of those handicaps.

Scheherazade
03-31-2009, 11:18 AM
Our (American) educational system has left us with severe learning handicaps, fear of learning new stuff is one of those handicaps.I wouldn't know; I am not a "product" of the American educational system but now that you have explained, it makes sense... a lot.

NikolaiI
03-31-2009, 11:47 AM
Some questions are designed to facilitate comprehension and some are designed to inhibit comprehension. Our (American) educational system has left us with severe learning handicaps, fear of learning new stuff is one of those handicaps.

What? Eh, as they say, speak for yourself. I had wonderful teachers and schools, growing up in the same town you went to college.

motherhubbard
03-31-2009, 11:54 AM
Our (American) educational system has left us with severe learning handicaps, fear of learning new stuff is one of those handicaps.

Speak for yourself! What role do you play in the reformation of the American public schools? What works on paper or in theory is not always practical in the classroom. As I have stated many times before we should consider the family’s role in a child’s education. We need to stop looking at it as if it were the sole responsibility of the education system to create moral, intelligent, responsible human beings. The public school system works with limited resources to provide an enormous service to the general public. It is not their responsibility to correct all of society’s shortcomings. They are there to assist a parent in educating their children.

robertlc53
03-31-2009, 03:27 PM
since when is it safe to comment on the indolence of an entire culture? seems foolish to me. i for one am concerned with the state of my own mind and spirit so i prefer to let alone passing judgement on entire cultures.

but for the sake of argument; presupposing that americans are by a large majority truly indolent and overly silver spoonish. why speculate, it was said in a response prior to mine that you can not force one to immediately become whatever your defenition of sophisticated is. think about the fallacy of your suggestion to the american culture. first, it emulates old school aristocratic political views where there is an exalted class based on status and education (sophistication) this ruling class exalted themselves and left an entire population bereft of common liberties the americans government vehemently advoacates and defends. if you have a problem with liberty, america has a problem with you. also if you have a problem with the way an american behaves, i can gaurantee that a citizen belonging to a society that embraces liberty and individuality would turn a deaf ear at your wanton quibble.

Emmy Castrol
03-31-2009, 06:42 PM
Some questions are designed to facilitate comprehension and some are designed to inhibit comprehension. Our (American) educational system has left us with severe learning handicaps, fear of learning new stuff is one of those handicaps.

Wow... you haven't seen how demotivating and middling Australian public schools are. That's why if a family has money, they'll send their children to private schools. I would never have described the American educational system contributing to a 'fear of learning new stuff'. The USA is very entreprenuerial and I'd like to see that pro-entreprenuerial culture as strong here in Australia as it currently is in the US.

weltanschauung
03-31-2009, 10:35 PM
i pretty much agree with everything colberst is saying, but i also see that the general ignorance is spread all over the world instead of just in america. the level of critical, creative and independent thinking is minimal all over the place, considering the amount of means of information available. what you see is armies of automatons manipulated by the media through pop culture. everything that is out for the general public is mass production lifestyles for sale and all you have to do is chose the one that fits your budget range. schools teach you how to be a complete moron, memorizing a bunch of useless information that will make you function in the mechanisms of society with mediocrity without questioning anything, as to not break the clockwork structure. no one is taught to think and thinking is pretty much not only discouraged but most of the times punished. you must follow the rules or you will be eliminated.
for the countries that are suposedly found over democratic principles the government is made of layers of power that are basically determined by the financial institutions, and we are led to believe through political propaganda that we actually make choices that affect the outcome of our own future as a citizen, but what really happens is a whole invisible set of power webs that are not affected by the desires of the nation but the desires of the great banks to perpectuate financial dictatorship.

and hear this, the great thing about all of this is that no matter how much you try to deny it, the truth is right before your eyes but you wont look or accept it, because that would make you a an oblivious slave and of course you arent.

some of the replies in this thread made me think of those hysterical nuns in huxley's the devils of loudun, projecting their lust after grandier into a demonic possesion under his command in order to be feel absolved from any guilt.

burn in the night
you're the devil's child!

blazeofglory
04-04-2009, 02:16 AM
All of us are hemmed in a vortex. We try to come upon the entrance to something or somewhere wherein we supposedly understand the meaning of life.

We are simply in a labyrinth. In our endeavours to come across the meaning of life we keep on getting more and more confused.

We keep on muffling ourselves with more and more ideas, and in the name of education we are masking or layering our real natures. We nurture ourselves naming it education averse to the natural course.

What is the meaning of life. Life has no meaning, no philosophy.

Life is life. If we try to get a meaning out of religoins, opinions, philosophies, beliefs, ideals or faiths we will distance oursleves from understanding life.

Let us not see life from an idealogical lens, and do not follow a prescription or a particular normative idea to understand life.

See a peasant. He or she is illiterate, yet lives a fuller and richer life. And he is so close to nature and things of nature he does not care about all our artificialities.

Emmy Castrol
04-05-2009, 08:46 PM
See a peasant. He or she is illiterate, yet lives a fuller and richer life. And he is so close to nature and things of nature he does not care about all our artificialities.

That is why I like the writings of D.H.Lawrence so much. He believes that it is instinct that is the driving force of human energy.

Perhaps the peasant is much more humble. Is it the ego that creates the necessity of ignorance - this need for classifying differing levels of intellect and sophistication? God is so vastly intelligent that the intellect level between a 'peasant' and a 'sophisticated individual' is so trivial that we must all appear stupid in His eyes.

And yet, how does one stop instinct? On the weekend I stopped by a dying country town on its last legs and waiting for a coffee in one of their cafes, could not help but be annoyed at the person serving behind the counter because of their lack of sophistication. I tried to strike up a friendly conversation and it was as if their own insecurity and self-consciousness could not allow them to be easy and friendly.

It was not a comfortable experience. However, not all Australian country towns are like that. I've been to some where the people are so friendly and because they love where they live they reflect no insecurity in their relations with visiting strangers.

But how does one push away that instinct - the one that feels annoyed at the lack of sophistication of the country bumpkin and pities them that they have not the worldly knowledge of the city, even though I know that the false superiority I felt was only due to worldly pride?