Lets talk about Distopia

[Dark Muse]

It should be no surprise that I love distopian literature. Probably because I am so pessimistic in my views on the future and I do not like typically happy endings.

I have read 1984 of course, and Animal Farm. I am currently reading The Handmaid's Tale and it looks as if I will be reading Brave New World pretty soon.

Oh and I almost forget, of course A Clockwork Orange.

I have also read some pretty good and interesting young adult distopian books for my Child Lit class. Feed I have discussed upon here, and I just finished a book called The Hunger Games.

So I am looking for suggestions on any good distopean books

[kevinthediltz]

I am nearing the end of Fahrenheit 451. I have definately enjoyied it, though I don't think it will measure up to 1984.

[Dark Muse]

I hear Fahrenheit 451 brought up a lot, though I never knew ezxaxtly what it was about, I have heard only good things about it from those who have mentioned it.

[kevinthediltz]

It's basically a distopia where books and literature in general are outlawed. And it centers around a fireman (firemen burn books and houses that have books instead of putting fire out) who aquires a few books and sees the beauty in them.
*very vauge discription*

[DisPater]

you can read also:

Yevgeny Zamyatin - We

Michel Faber - Under The Skin - not really a dystopia, but it can be seen as one.

[Dark Muse]

Well I will keep it in mind since it seems to be rather well liked

[Wilde woman]

Ayn Rand's Anthem and We, the People.

Also, Kafka's The Trial jumps to mind.

Dystopian societies are also popular in graphic novels like V for Vendetta, if you consider them literature.

[Dark Muse]

I am a fan of Rand, I have both those books just have not read them yet

[LitNetIsGreat]

It should be no surprise that I love distopian literature. Probably because I am so pessimistic in my views on the future and I do not like typically happy endings.


What are your thoughts on utopian literature then? For if you read utopian literature in turns real life into distopia and how bleak is that? The likes of Thomas More's Utopia, William Morris's News From Nowhere and Edward Bellamy's Looking Backwards are obvious places to start. Though I would definitely make Brave New World your next pick of the distopias.

[Hank Stamper]

I would definitely second We by Yevgeny Zamyatin.. it is much akin to Huxley (but prob a bit better) and was Orwell's major influence for 1984

[mystery_spell]

First off, you misspelled dystopia. :P

Brave New World is definitely a great dystopia book to read next. Lord of the Flies can also be considered a dystopia book, so I'd suggest that one as well.

[Gustavo L.]

I recommend Philip K. Dick's short story "The Faith of Our Fathers".

The author also wrote a novel based on an alternative timeline in which the Nazis and the Empire of Japan rule the world after have won World War II ("The Man in The High Castle"), but I haven't read this one.

[kelby_lake]

[QUOTE=Dark Muse;685682]It should be no surprise that I love distopian literature. Probably because I am so pessimistic in my views on the future and I do not like typically happy endings.

I have read 1984 of course, and Animal Farm. I am currently reading The Handmaid's Tale and it looks as if I will be reading Brave New World pretty soon.
/QUOTE]

Deffo Brave New World. Is distopia the American spelling of dystopia? I don't like it :(

[Dark Muse]

What are your thoughts on utopian literature then? For if you read utopian literature in turns real life into distopia and how bleak is that? The likes of Thomas More's Utopia, William Morris's News From Nowhere and Edward Bellamy's Looking Backwards are obvious places to start. Though I would definitely make Brave New World your next pick of the distopias.

To me the ida of an acutal utopia sounds like it would get dull and boring. I just finnished reading Paradise Lost and could not help thinking, wow the Garden of Eden sounds like it would just be boring after the first few days or so.

Hypothetically speaking since I do not actually believe in the Bible I am one of those people who look upon the fall of man as a positive thing. I do not really want a Utopia.

I don't want to live in a dystopia either where there is no freedom and the goverment controls everything. But there needs to be some chaos in the world.

That is acutally why I am against both Utopia's and Dystopias, becasue in different ways they both have too much order.

[Dark Muse]

Deffo Brave New World. Is distopia the American spelling of dystopia? I don't like it :(

LOL no, it is just my way of spelling it

[kelby_lake]

I like the greek roots :) I think the 'dys' is for machines that don't work- dysfunctional, dystopia...

[electricpenguin]

I'm reading a brilliant YA dystopian novel at the moment - 'Bloodtide' by Melvin Burgess. It's the first of a two-part science fiction adaptation of the Icelandic 'Volsunga saga' [allied to the Nibelungenlied]... and is a REALLY GOOD READ!

Hope this helps! :)

Penguin xxxx

[Dark Muse]

That does sound interesting

[Joreads]

I am nearing the end of Fahrenheit 451. I have definately enjoyied it, though I don't think it will measure up to 1984.

Muse you should really try Fahrenheit 451 it is a great novel.

[Hank Stamper]

I'm reading a brilliant YA dystopian novel at the moment - 'Bloodtide' by Melvin Burgess. It's the first of a two-part science fiction adaptation of the Icelandic 'Volsunga saga' [allied to the Nibelungenlied]... and is a REALLY GOOD READ!

Hope this helps! :)

Penguin xxxx

the first time the words 'brilliant' and 'melvin burgess' have ever been used in the same sentence

[lys]

i so much enjoyed animal farm it is such a beautiful satirical novel..........i also enjoyed lord of the flies...but nothing could compare to animal farm......good job Orwell

"all animals are equal but some are more equal than others"

its simply amazing that throughout the novel the only animals are the humans......and the animals are actually the humans themselves mentioned in the novel.........great comparison

[lys]

dysfunctional is a non working system
dystopia is a dysfunctional world

[kelby_lake]

dysfunctional is a non working system
dystopia is a dysfunctional world

? Hence the same prefix.

dys-
pref.

1. Abnormal: dysplasia.
2.
1. Impaired: dysgraphia.
2. Difficult: dysphonia.
3. Bad: dyslogistic.


[Latin dys-, bad, from Greek dus-; see dus- in Indo-European roots.]

[electricpenguin]

the first time the words 'brilliant' and 'melvin burgess' have ever been used in the same sentence

Come now Hank, that smacks of snobbery!

[Hank Stamper]

Come now Hank, that smacks of snobbery!

yep :D

he is awful though

[Mariamosis]

The Machine Stops - E.M. Forster
Bend Sinister- Vladimir Nabokov

I haven't actually read these, however, I have heard many good things about them.

[Emil Miller]

The Machine Stops - E.M. Forster
Bend Sinister- Vladimir Nabokov

I haven't actually read these, however, I have heard many good things about them.

In my view, The Machine Stops should be required reading in schools to restore some balance to the technological revolution we are now experiencing. Whilst we have amazing opportunities to broaden our horizens through the internet and the use of computers in general, we may be heading for the kind of situation that Forster pictures in his story. Below is an extract from a former post I made a while back.

......E.M.Forster whose short story The Machine Stops is a frightening tale of what happens to a world totally reliant on technology where human will has been weakened to the point that people can no longer do anything for themselves.

[Dark Muse]

Is The Machine Stops a short story? Something about it sounds familair

[Emil Miller]

Is The Machine Stops a short story? Something about it sounds familair

Yes, I read it many years ago in a book of collected short stories by E.M. Forster, the others were all on different themes, except for the underlying liberal/humanistic theme that is the hallmark of all Forster's writing.
There is a very good description of the story on Wickipedia.

[Dark Muse]

I think I have the story printed out though I have not read it yet, I came acorss it when I was doing some research on Forster for a class I was taking. I will have to look and see if I have it.

[aurevoiryouth]

a clockwork orange and brave new world for sure. i wouldn't recommend lord of the flies (mostly because i almost gouged my eyes out reading it :)). i've been meaning to read we by zamyatin, and moscow 2042 by voinovich. kafka's 'in the penal colony' is great too.

[Stargazer86]

I think Lord of the Flies, Animal Farm, and Farenheit 451 are the only books I've ever read that would fall under this catagory. I've heard several mentions of George Orwell's 1984 but am not sure what its about. *adds to list of books to read*

In searching for dystopias online, I found this link http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/science_fiction/451.htm which lists many of them and briefly summarizes some of the stories and some general interesting info.
Specifically, I was looking to see if Dandelion Wine by Ray Bradbury would fall under the catagory. Its been AGES since I've read it and I don't remember it well...

[wateredwhisky]

Maybe just watch some documentaries about the McCarthy trials. :thumbs_up

[Like_Herod]

I studied dystopia at the end of last year as my part of my English course. Most of the books mentioned here came up at one time or another, but the main one we studied was Kazuo Ishiguro's 'Never Let Me Go'. It doesn't focus on the idea of a controlling government in the same way that '1984' or 'Brave New World' do but instead looks at the possible effects of cloning people for organ donation.

I think 'The Time Machine' by H.G. Wells could also be called a dystopia. I really enjoyed it and thought it brough up quite a lot of valid points.

[pagebypage]

I'm trying to think of some that I've read that hasn't been already mentioned.

If you include alternate histories then Fatherland by Harris and The Man in the High Castle by Dick were pretty good.

SciFi I'd have to include The Day of the Triffids by Wyndham (he was the Michael Crichton of his day) and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Dick.

Oh, and We by Zamyatin is a nice classic example of the political type.

[Grimes]

I am a Phillip K. Dick fan, although I think his books can be better described as "Cyber Punk" instead of Dystopian. There are many elements of Dystopia in his novels, though, such as The Man in the High Castle. I think most people have mixed feelings about The Man in the High Castle because it is so open ended, but I particularly liked how the vision of an alternative post-war world reveals so much about the reality of the actual post WWII world.

I haven't read any Margaret Atwood except for Oryx and Crake, but it's one of my favorite speculative dystopia books.

[Desolation]

1984 is horrifying. I read it in a day, and felt sick when I was finished. The thing about it is that America really is not so far off from Orwell's nightmare.

Brave New World and Fahrenheit 451 are also really good. If you like Brave New World, you should read Huxley's follow-up, Brave New World Revisited it's an essay that goes over how we can prevent BNW from becoming a reality.

[JuniperWoolf]

Make Room! Make Room! - Harry Harrison.
It's about the consequences of overpopulation. Ever heard of Soylent Green? This is the book it was based on. Pretty depressing, if that's what you're into.

Riddley Walker - Russell Hoban.
Fan-freaking-tastic. Some people call it a difficult read, but it just takes some getting used to. It takes place two thousand years after a nuclear war, and the state of humanity is pretty dim. The spelling is incorrect on purpose, because man has just recently regained the ability to read and write. You'll find neat little secret meanings in the incorrectly spelled words. The end can be construed as pessimistic or optimistic, depending on your personalty.

[lichtrausch]

1984 is horrifying. I read it in a day, and felt sick when I was finished. The thing about it is that America really is not so far off from Orwell's nightmare.


This is a ridiculous claim. The conditions in 1984 are even worse than those in North Korea. At least there are no telescreens in North Korean homes. Are you seriously claiming that the situation in America is anywhere near as bad as in North Korea?

[Desolation]

This is a ridiculous claim. The conditions in 1984 are even worse than those in North Korea. At least there are no telescreens in North Korean homes. Are you seriously claiming that the situation in America is anywhere near as bad as in North Korea?
Currently, our conditions are not that bad, but we have the technology to go far beyond what Orwell described, we're just a "terrorist attack" away from it being implemented. They already have video cameras in DTV converter boxes, which is pretty similar to a telescreen.

The book was pretty much a mirror of the USSR and Nazi Germany, and I assume that North Korea is currently about as bad as Soviet Union was then. Even if they don't have explicit telescreens, it's probably pretty similar.

[lichtrausch]

Currently, our conditions are not that bad, but we have the technology to go far beyond what Orwell described, we're just a "terrorist attack" away from it being implemented.


Oh please. The worst terror attack in history only led to a very marginal curtailment of personal freedoms in the U.S.. It would take much worse to create an Orwellian society.



They already have video cameras in DTV converter boxes, which is pretty similar to a telescreen.


This immediately sounded like a conspiracy theory to me so I googled it and what do you know:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/02/dtv-converters/

I'd recommend that you start getting your news from more reliable sources.

[Desolation]

Oh please. The worst terror attack in history only led to a very marginal curtailment of personal freedoms in the U.S.. It would take much worse to create an Orwellian society.
There's no such thing as a marginal curtailment of freedom in my book. The DTV thing, I'll admit that I was wrong there. But just think what another terrorist attack could do to freedom, any "small" curtailment of personal freedom is unacceptable, and a slippery slope towards an Orwellian society.

[kelby_lake]

It is kind of scary, the thought that one might control every impulse you have. Who really dictates what we feel? I'm not saying that society is brainwashing us, but it has so much power it could if it wanted to.

[meh!]

To recommend it again, Lanark by Alasdair Gray. Of course it's overtly political like all of Gray's work but at it it's core it's about love and its important for one and for society. Though I wouldn't say that the ending is 'unhappy' the ending is actually quite uplifting, but it's certainly 'dystopian'.

[MissTwain]

We is definitely a fantastic book. I also took a Utopian/Dystopian course in University and we studied books that could be seen as either depending on how one views it... check out Ursula LeGuin's "The Dispossessed" or "Woman on the Edge of Time" by Marge Piercy (Gender roles are played with here as well)

I think my all time favorite book as an adolescent was also ambiguously dystopian "the Giver" by Lois Lowry. I recently re-read it and remembered why at an early age I wanted to write :D

[Dave Scotese]

So I am looking for suggestions on any good distopean books

Does it have to be fiction? The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto is pretty dystopian - but open ended and hopeful, as I should expect any history to be.

Hmm. On the other hand, it would be pretty remarkable to find a publisher and an author who'd go to all the work of writing a historically accurate book that provided a sense of doom along with a sense of closure at the end. It could be titled "Not Brave Enough for Suicide Yet?" or "You Can Be Depressed Too!" or "At Least Life Is Temporary". Hmm...

[Nick Capozzoli]

? Hence the same prefix.

dys-
pref.

1. Abnormal: dysplasia.
2.
1. Impaired: dysgraphia.
2. Difficult: dysphonia.
3. Bad: dyslogistic.


[Latin dys-, bad, from Greek dus-; see dus- in Indo-European roots.]

OK...but I think that the most people think that "dystopia" (a bad place) is somehow the opposite of "utopia." "Utopia" actually derives from "ou" (no/not a) + "topos" (place), and means "no place" or "nowhere." The Greek word for "good" sounds like the Greek word for "no" but the English words derived from it are spelled "eu-"...like eugenics and euphoria... The proper English word meaning "a good place" would have been "eutopia." :yawnb:

Nick