Writing with foreign or invented languages?

[koatna]

Hello everyone,

I have been working on a novel now for quite some time set in a fantasy fiction environment. About 99% of the novel is in english, however occasionally I like to toss in tidbits of a language I have been working to invent for certain circumstances (ex. when a character curses I often use a foreign language, or when they are making an exclamation of surprise or contempt). I felt as though this would add flavor and intrugue to the context of the novel.

Recently I picked up a copy of Strunk and White's The Elements of Style, and I read a portion which stated quite clearly "Avoid Foreign Languages" stating that it may cause a level of discomfort to the reader.

Basically I would just like your opinions on the matter. Should I leave it and continue to write as I have been? Or should I strike my linguistic interjections comepletely and write in english?

Thank you for your responses.

[kelby_lake]

Foreign languages are great to put in a book! Chances are that the reader is already interested in this place and would love to hear the language!

For example, here's a bit of French dropped in:

'My mother, she is un petit fou- hence the colour-coordinated plates and prayers to our compost bin'

The phrase or word should be obvious as to its meaning by the rest of your sentence- we shouldn't have to try and translate it into English.

[PeterL]

It's a matter of scale. An occasional foreign word or phrase is fine, but lengthy chunks are bad. The invented language is a somewhat different matter. You should make the meaning clear; showing the translation in parentheses would work.

[koatna]

A very good point. At first I was awfully proud of the insertions I had made, but I think after a hundred pages or so I started to try too hard. Some of the phrases have indeed become a bit less obvious and I think I will go and adjust as needed.

What do you think of using the word and then giving its meaning afterwards? At first I felt that this would have a similar affect, but now I am afraid that I am simply adding in unneeded details. An example would be something like:

"The woman was a Jentio, a gypsy."

That is not a direct usage in my story, but that is one of the general ideas. I use the term Jentio subsequently and quite frequently after this passage. Therefore the explanation isn't completely useless, but I don't want to convolute the story too much.

[koatna]

In response to PeterL,

I worry about simply showing the definition in parentheses because it seems to interrupt the flow of the novel. I don't want it to look like a textbook or dictionary.

[Wilde woman]

Is this a language you invented specifically for the fantasy world of your book or is it a real language?

I think if you're using an invented language, it's fine to use bits here and there, as long as it's a reader can understand it in context. I think it's particularly interesting when an invented language imitates a real language...as Tolkein's was influenced by Old English and Welsh.

As for foreign languages, lots of writers use them. One of my favorites, Umberto Eco does it quite liberally and I think it adds a wonderful new dimension to his books.

[Whifflingpin]

"A very good point. At first I was awfully proud of the insertions I had made, but I think after a hundred pages or so I started to try too hard. Some of the phrases have indeed become a bit less obvious and I think I will go and adjust as needed.

What do you think of using the word and then giving its meaning afterwards? At first I felt that this would have a similar affect, but now I am afraid that I am simply adding in unneeded details. An example would be something like:

"The woman was a Jentio, a gypsy."

That is not a direct usage in my story, but that is one of the general ideas. I use the term Jentio subsequently and quite frequently after this passage. Therefore the explanation isn't completely useless, but I don't want to convolute the story too much. "

That, to me, sounds like a good approach. A few words of the invented language add colour and a kind of reality, but too many become laborious.

Of course, in some books the language is not just a decoration, but an essential part of the work - the only one that comes to my mind at this moment is Peter Dickinson's "Shadow of a Hero." In that book the language, and the attempts to translate it, are a major vehicle for the ideas that the author wishes to convey.

[mayneverhave]

At one point in Ulysses (Joyce), Stephen Dedalus has a conversation with his Italian vocal instructor in Italian. This is feasible because it is realistic. An Italian vocal instructor (most likely) would speak Italian. It may be a hassle to translate the Italian to English, for the non-Italian speaker, but Joyce would never even dream of compromising his artistic integrity for the laziness of the reader.

[koatna]

The language is indeed specifically invented for the story and isn't particularly based off of a real language. It is mostly based off of whatever I think sounds right at the time and I plan to clean it up later.

Tolkein was actually one of my inspiration's for adding in this second language, as were several other things. As I stated before, I feel that it adds flavor, and emphasizes that the characters are in a world nothing like our own.

And yes, context is something I am trying to pay close attention to. As my story grows in length it is getting a bit more complicated to monitor and document the words that I create. But I feel that in the end, the finished product will will be worth it.

[Emil Miller]

The use of foreign words or phrases in fiction should be used sparingly and only for the purpose of accentuating a character's nationality or to add authenticity to the story. I found that when writing my second novel, I used French and German a few times because some of the story is set in Switzerland and Germany but anyone not speaking those languages would understand from the context of the sentence what was meant. So by all means carry on using limited foreign input but don't confuse the reader.

[armenian]

clockwork orange was great at making up its own language.
it was uncomfortable at first, but as you got further along, you began to understand the language perfectly and it actually enhanced the book.

[JBI]

As a general rule, if you aren't well versed in linguistics or languages, I'd avoid made up languages - from my reading of fantasy literature 99.9% of the time, they suck, and make no sense. Tolkien was particularly good at this, those that followed generally have been bad. Making up languages isn't just making up lexicons, and in truth, generally the reader won't care for it. Though, throwing in bits of real language is good, if used correctly, but Michael Ondaatje throwing in bits of proper Italian in In The Skin of a Lion I think didn't work, given that immigrant Italian workers in Toronto in the 1930s would probably be speaking Sicilian Italian, or an alternative southern dialect, not Tuscan. But if you know what you are doing, it works.

[koatna]

I definately understand your point JBI. That is actually one of my concerns. Obviously as a twenty-one year old business major I am not exactly qualified to make up a language as in depth and detailed as a linguistics master like Tolkein.

My main concern is that I don't want the reader to see this made up language and simply laugh, which is why I considered removing the phrases and in turn simply using the occasional word with a definition in the fashion that I stated above. However if I take this course of action I feel as though the singular definitions would feel out of place, useless, and unwarranted.

My fiance (being my first and only reader thus far) feels as though the idea of adding a language is stupid. However she also confessed that she doesn't read any sort of fantasy and therefore is biased in her opinion on the matter. I am considering scrapping the language all together, I just feel as though it removes a great deal of flavor and immersion. Ah decisions, decisions.

Also, thank you all for your quick and helpful responses.

[Petronius]

As long as you make sure your made-up phrases fit with the rhythm of the text, and that the words actually give the impression of being part of the same language, it should be an enriching addition. Try to balance how often and how many you use, though - if they are too casual and repetitive, they won't be taken seriously; too complicated and they will confuse. Try to ask yourself when is the character most likely to use words from his own language, and why (for example, not being able to find the proper word in the common language, or traditional formulas such as a prayer; using it for greetings would be unrealistic cliche). Also, if you used an english word to explain meaning once, make sure you keep using both forms further down the road, especially if you did it in dialogue - otherwise a small dictionary at the end would serve you better.

Good luck with your writing.

[crystalmoonshin]

I'd rather see foreign words than artificial ones in a book. Tolkien inspired lots of fantasy writers when he invented a language and I think he's done a pretty nice job. Other writers seem to suck, like Paolini in his Inheritance series.

[Mag Master 21]

Perhaps you could add a glossary at the end, which defines the words you've used throughout.

[JBI]

Perhaps you could add a glossary at the end, which defines the words you've used throughout.

That's even worse, in my opinion.

Either way, I recommend scraping the foreign language idea. It virtually never works, unless you are Burgess, who happened to be very well versed in languages and linguistics.

[Mag Master 21]

That's even worse, in my opinion.

Either way, I recommend scraping the foreign language idea. It virtually never works, unless you are Burgess, who happened to be very well versed in languages and linguistics.

If he's going to keep it, I think it's the least of the evils.

And without having read it, I'm not sure why you're hell bent on him scrapping the idea. Sure, many times it's disastrous, but perhaps you're jumping the gun.

[Pecksie]

I don't mind the interspersing of foreign-language expressions in a book, except in two cases:

1. When the author assumes that every foreign character will automatically sprinkle his/her everyday speech with words from his/her own language, or needlessly jump from one language to the other. Irritating.

2. When the author misspells or misuses words from a foreign language. Needless to say, this makes the whole work unconvincing. A very common example is the use of the Spanish words 'señor' and 'señora' ('Mr' and 'Mrs') without the article 'el' or 'la', as in 'Señor López said hello'. The correct usage would be 'El señor López said hello'. These common mistakes result in stilted, annoying texts, and make us lose confidence in the author.

[blazeofglory]

A blend of all makes a piece of wrting formidably moving as a matter of fact.

Of course some foreign stuff resonating in a piece will be flabbergasting!

But it depends how much the writer can attune himself or herself to the foreign stuffs.

[koatna]

I considered the glossary at the end of the book, I both like and dislike the idea. I like being able to use the language without interrupting the flow of the story, but I don't want the reader to growl in anger every time they need to look in the back to figure out what a word means.

The thing is I also think several of you may think that I am tossing in these words and phrases all over the place. In fact I am not even sure that there are enough words and phrases to warrant an entire glossary. I am very concerned with overwhelming the reader and overcomplicating things. Therefore, I have been very critical with my useage of these invented words. My goal is not necessarily an artistic look and feel, but more a way of grabbing the reader and making the story more enjoyable.