Does anybody else feel the human race is worthless?

[ihavebrownhaira]

After reading The Mysterious Stranger it has finally dawned on me how worthless we are as human beings! Kurt Vonnegut emphasized this before his death and he is absolutely right. After all the violence and abuse and war and dirty money and rape and murder and drugs. Shouldn't we just end this? Pretty soon the Earth will be so overpopulated that there will be no more resources for us to consume and destroy. It is sad. I see it everyday. I work a bad job and I live in a bad town and I've traveled and I still see this pain and nonsense. It happens all the time. Every single day. Good things do happen rarely, but usually they get run over. When one lives through a bad childhood I believe ones bull**** sensor begins to run properly and one can take away all the glamor and bull**** and begin to see things for what they really are.

I look in the mirror and i see a pig. I look at my grandmother and i see a pig. Every face I stare into I see a deceitful pig staring back at me. OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK. Some may claim I'm insane, but take the time to think about it. Year after year day after day second after second there is constant pain and war and violence and there is no end in sight! Things have been getting worse even! Now we have bombs that could kill us all in a second if not less! Think about this!

After the holocaust we claimed there would never be so much gruesome killing again, but in the 90's in Africa more than 800,000 people were slayed at one time. It doesn't stop people! It never stops. I see how piggish we are at work and at home and at school and you do too. It does not stop. I will never have children. I will not contribute to this sick experiment.

[jon1jt]

Your problem is that your starting point is 'the big picture,' but that has no reality, because real change happens on a small scale. Yeah sure, more work needs to be done, you don't have to tell me that. I'm more interested in what you have done to make a difference in changing the big picture. I'm sure you can come up with some examples, and if you can't, well, then shame on you. But it's not too late either. Get to it Tonto.


"The greatest offense to humanity is the man without a purpose." Ayn Rand

[weltanschauung]

its not worthless, its just been mislead and misused for way too long. its time to take the power back, dont you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBGGAjMg9vw

[Zee.]

People tend to look at things on a scale much larger than day to day happenings.

War, rape etc etc
those are "big" words.

The reasons why humanity is not worthless?
The charity that is shown. The kindness that is shown. The friendliness that is shown. The compassion which is given.

You can't view it in an "absolute" way. The world isn't "worthless". Sure, terrible things happen, and worthless people exist.
But that doesn't account for the good.

Also, the book you read didn't inform you of how you're feeling right now. It may have brought what you have already thought to your attention, but it is not a new "idea".
Has it ever been amazing? the place is too big to reach such expectations. All we can do is try and make the best of "our" world. Atleast then itll help the bigger picture. Change starts within.

Everyone wants to change the world you know. Half the time they're the ones with the problem, not the "world".

[jon1jt]

its not worthless, its just been mislead and misused for way too long. its time to take the power back, dont you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBGGAjMg9vw



I agree, weltans. Public indifference turned inside out becomes acquiescence to those who have misused the power of the people. We are our own worst enemy.

[1n50mn14]

Next time you feel the need to make such an extreme argument, please take the time to phrase it in a coherent, calm and intelligent fashion... the OINK OINK OINK OINK doesn't really help your argument... instead, it shows that even YOU get angry, YOU get pissed off, you lose your cool and have to blow it off in a small way- even if it's just writing in all capitals.

I have to agree with Lima. Vonnegut's book can not have done this to you. Maybe it was a final straw. But it's Just a Book. It is his opinion as an author. His bias, his views. Not yours. Form your own opinion based off of what you personally see. Yes, horrible, horrible things happen in the world- always have, always will. Human nature, unfortunately. But we are not a worthless race. Otherwise, certain members wouldn't try to redeem the entire race.

Compassion, love, friendship and a variety of other redeeming characteristics exist. We are a pretty suck-tastic race as a whole. But oh no, not worthless. I can't bring myself to believe that, when there are strangers who have taken me in off of the street, when I've seen friends offer each other a helping hand, when I've seen the work people put into helping others. Dedicating their lives to it, portions of their energy to it, etc. When I see the struggle many individuals go through on a day to day basis, without worrying about war, genocide, global warming, and other atrocities committed against humans by other humans, I don't think we are worthless. The INDIVIDUALS who set horrendous things into motion are not worthless, either. Mislead, confused and backwards is all we are. We need some fixing, and it might never happen, and as the atrocities grow steadily in volume, we may, someday, become worthless.

I live in a bad town. I've travelled, and I've seen some bad places. But even in the heart of London, I've had complete strangers help me. In a Toronto alleyway, when nearly mugged by a man, I've seen a change of heart. WE need to be the ones to show the compassion to make the changes! If we can not believe, YES, it WILL get worse until it isn't worth changing the world, until it isn't possible. But the blatant cynicism from people such as yourself DO NOT help the situation!!! Lack of belief exacerbates the entire problem! Try extending a helping hand, and, I quote, Being the Change you Wish to See.

Yours was an extremely biased post, and I am sad for you that there aren't people in your life that make you believe in the hope and compassion that exists in the hearts of men.

I'm sorry if that came across as rude. But this is an issue I feel quite strongly about.

[jon1jt]

I think to be fair to the OP, it is pretty easy for people to make this kind of assessment about the world nowadays. Nobel Prize Winner John Paul Sartre's novel Nausea comes to pretty much the same conclusion, blaming the problems of the world on human beings who feel discontented, alienated, and marooned in their own bodies. But even Sartre recognized that change is possible when we're willing to take 'responsibility' for our own actions---and, more often the case, for lack of action. ;)

[a_little_wisp]

"You're an interesting species, an interesting mix. You're capable of such beautiful dreams and such horrible nightmares. You feel so lost, so cut off, so alone, only you're not. See, in all our searching, the only thing we've found that makes the emptiness bearable is each other."

-Contact


There is so much horror in the world today, but that makes it that much more important for men to be stronger, more moral, more adamant in their belief in love. Don't let one book bring you down - don't lose hope yet. We're stronger than that. If you give up on mankind now, you give up on all the good people trying to stop those terrible things from happening, who want to save the world. If we say "eff this place" to the world, we're that much more to blame for its destruction.

I look at my mother and I see absolute beauty, absolute strength. She had my brother when she was eighteen, me when she was twenty-one - I couldn't imagine having a kid right now, at the same age. But she did it, and she loved us, as my father did, and against all odds, against the poverty she'd faced in the years before, she managed to feed us, and clothe us, and keep a roof over our head, and wonder of all wonders, raise us to see the world as a beautiful and magical place. And it is, oh god it is. She devoted her whole life- time she could have spent in school - to raising my brother, my two little sisters, and all. She is absolutely giving, and I have yet to see one day that she has lived solely for herself.

I've seen that same quality of selflessness in other people, many other people.

I go home and watch the news or read something awful in the papers and I feel helpless -

But the next day, I see one of my managers pay for a poor man's food or sit down to talk with a lonely old lady.

Limajean said:


"All we can do is try and make the best of "our" world. Atleast then itll help the bigger picture. Change starts within."

And that is oh-so true. One smile changes the course of one person's day, one act of kindness brightens the whole world around us - a chain reaction is set off.

I've known people with terrible childhoods, who have been adopted, who have been ignored by their parents, who have been raped -

And who still see beauty in the world, who still want to save people, to save the world.

I've been a waitress for some time now, and I can honestly say I've never had a downright mean customer- and isn't that something? Sure, some have been dissatisfied at times, but never rude, never cruel. I believe you can kill with kindness, that the more you smile, the less they feel like frowning, the less they have the ability to.


And we get walked over all the time. I help a girl out at work and she steals my tips - so what? It's three bucks. Maybe she needs it more than me. Or maybe she just wants to go get drunk with it- if so, that's her life. I'm the better, stronger person, I didn't let her change me, and one day when she's alone and her college days have been wasted (s'cool to drink on the weekends, but dawg, every day of the week?), maybe she'll realize who she is and maybe things will change. Maybe things won't. I hope they will.

There's always. always. Hope.

I am so sorry for whatever you've been through to make the world seem so bleak to you, but believe me when I say that change happens - although not without us giving it a hand.



CHORONZON: I am a dire world, prey-stalking, lethal prowler.

MORPHEUS: I am a hunter, horse-mounted, wolf-stabbing.

CHORONZON: I am a horsefly, horse-stinging, hunter-throwing.

MORPHEUS: I am a spider, fly-consuming, eight legged.

CHORONZON: I am a snake, spider-devouring, posion-toothed.

MORPHEUS: I am an ox, snake-crushing, heavy footed.

CHORONZON: I am an anthrax, butcher, bacterium, warm-life destroying.

MORPHEUS: I am a world, space-floating, life nurturing.

CHORONZON: I am a nova, all-exploding... planet-cremating.

MORPHEUS: I am the Universe -- all things encompassing, all life embracing.

CHORONZON: I am Anti-Life, the Beast of Judgement. I am the dark at the end of everything. The end of universes, gods, worlds... of everything. Sss. And what will you be then, Dreamlord?

MORPHEUS: I am hope.

- Neil Gaiman, Sandman.

EDIT: Jon, just saw your post. I just wanted to say I agree entirely - Sartre had it right. goexistentialists...!

[Zeruiah]

I think your feelings are simply a result of natural indignation towards the modern world. Unlike most people who you tell this to, I don't think its unreasonable at all to feel the way you do. Its simply your gut reaction to modern stupidity.

Nevertheless, the problem with keeping this mindset is that it leaves no room for positive change. Many literary characters who feel the way you do are used merely as indicators of societal problems, but they stay paralyzed in self-doubt and never achieve anything. Take Dosteovsky's Fyodor Karamazov for example (In fact, I had almost thought that your post was a blatant rip-off of some Dostoevskian character like Marmeladov because of the OINK OINK OINK onomatopoeia and your Sturm und Drang-esque use of exclamation marks. It would have made a very witty troll post if it was.).

I'm not saying to start a coup-d'état or anything, I just think that you should follow jon1jt's advice and begin small scale. Humans are capable of positive strength and achievement, but it won't happen overnight or in a big, sudden bang.

[wind_cloud]

i don't konw who was right,i just want to say all is the same.Human being were birth with sins,since we cry to the world we have been always suck in the lust.people want to get what they don't have,this demand came from the inner never stop.But we should consider another question that human can't develop better if we don't first care aboult our benefits.Selfish makes the huamn advance,love makes the world better.

[Zee.]

No one said that we as humanity are meant to be rolled up in compassion, love and kindness. That is what makes us so complex. The fact that we can feel such amazing things, and do amazing things yet have the ability to turn around and destroy all of it by some kind of evil. And isn't that where the change, if at all, should occur? in the ability to choose? better yet, can it occur, should it occur? or is it undeniably part of our world. Like I said, change starts within. But on that note, no one is perfect, people do "terrible" things. Terrible things happen to people. Is this life? is there much point in working towards some kind of absolute purity within our world? or does the small sightings of kindness, those moments of compassion and love - are they what really embodies us as human?
Because in my opinion, that is what we should be proud of.
Whoever said pain should not exist and is unnatural is barking up the wrong tree. Why do we think that we have the right to live in a world free of war, free of pain, free of "evil"? people tend to think it should be a given right to live free of all that. Nothing is deserved, it is earned. Put the effort in to making the change you want to see, start with yourself. We all should.




I read over all of what i said, in my previous posts, it was littered with mistakes. My apologies :)




After the holocaust we claimed there would never be so much gruesome killing again



Did we?

That was a terrible event in history, and it was acknowledged as being so. But you are targeting all of humanity for one man's ( and undoubtably others ) evil.

But what about me? what about you? what about those who suffered, what about everyone who feels sick at the thought of the holocaust? what about those who could never, ever, do such a terrible thing to others. You're focusing on hate, and you're disregarding most of humanity.

People acknowledged the holocaust as being evil.
The UN was formed in response to it, and they never said such a thing would not occur again, I mean, how could they?


Also, i'm sorry you see life as a "sick" experiment.


Life is beautiful.

[SleepyWitch]

Your problem is that your starting point is 'the big picture,' but that has no reality, because real change happens on a small scale. Yeah sure, more work needs to be done, you don't have to tell me that. I'm more interested in what you have done to make a difference in changing the big picture. I'm sure you can come up with some examples, and if you can't, well, then shame on you. But it's not too late either. Get to it Tonto.


:thumbs_up
I like your attitude, jon.

brownhair, I can see where you're coming from. I agree that things have even got worse lately and it bores me no end to watch the news just to learn about another war etc. But jon is right. I find it helps me to collect newspaper clippings about 'good' news that make me optimistic, like a guy opening a bicycle rental in Paris (=less waste of resources) or a new NGO that gives African woman credit to buy a cow. etc. There are lots of positive things that happen on a small scale. Even your own attitude and the way you interact with others can make a difference.

edit: PS: pigs are very intelligent and cute :)

[subterranean]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBGGAjMg9vw

I had to pause Zeppelin's In The Evening for that. Fair trade.




.................................................. ................................

You remind me of someone from the past. He used to be a member.

[Pensive]

I have yet to meet something/someone worthless....

[librarius_qui]

After reading The Mysterious Stranger it has finally dawned on me how worthless we are as human beings! Kurt Vonnegut emphasized this before his death and he is absolutely right. After all the violence and abuse and war and dirty money and rape and murder and drugs. Shouldn't we just end this? Pretty soon the Earth will be so overpopulated that there will be no more resources for us to consume and destroy. It is sad. I see it everyday. I work a bad job and I live in a bad town and I've traveled and I still see this pain and nonsense. It happens all the time. Every single day. Good things do happen rarely, but usually they get run over. When one lives through a bad childhood I believe ones bull**** sensor begins to run properly and one can take away all the glamor and bull**** and begin to see things for what they really are.

I look in the mirror and i see a pig. I look at my grandmother and i see a pig. Every face I stare into I see a deceitful pig staring back at me. OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK. Some may claim I'm insane, but take the time to think about it. Year after year day after day second after second there is constant pain and war and violence and there is no end in sight! Things have been getting worse even! Now we have bombs that could kill us all in a second if not less! Think about this!

After the holocaust we claimed there would never be so much gruesome killing again, but in the 90's in Africa more than 800,000 people were slayed at one time. It doesn't stop people! It never stops. I see how piggish we are at work and at home and at school and you do too. It does not stop. I will never have children. I will not contribute to this sick experiment.

Human being isn't worthless.~

[Chris Thompson]

Search for the story The Horrendous Fall of The Great Blue Ball.

[Dori]

Man is a mystery. It reads to be unravelled, and if you spend your whole life unravelling it, don't say that you've wasted time. I am studying that mystery because I want to be a human being.

Dostoevsky


Know then thyself, presume not God to scan,
The proper study of mankind is man.
Placed on this isthmus of a middle state,
A being darkly wise, and rudely great:
With too much knowledge for the sceptic side,
With too much weakness or the stoic's pride,
He hangs between; in doubt to act, or rest;
In doubt to deem himself a god, or beat;
In doubt his mind or body to prefer;
Born but to die, and reasoning but to err;
Alike in ignorance, his reason such,
Whether he thinks too little or too much:
Chaos of though and passion, all confused;
Sill by himself abused and disabused;
Created half to rise and half to fall;
Great lord of all things, yet a prey to all;
Sole judge of truth, in endless error hurled:
The glory, jest, and riddle of the world!

Alexander Pope


To define the human race as either good or bad seems a bit provincial to me.

[Virgil]

I look in the mirror and i see a pig.

Well, I look in the mirror and am quite pleased. :D

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1244/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1244-3800.jpg

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

[Joreads]

Gee Virgil feel free to post some more pictures like that.

He is really worthwhile

[Virgil]

Gee Virgil feel free to post some more pictures like that.

He is really worthwhile

:lol: Yeah well, sometimes I take pictures of myself in underwear. :p

[Silas Thorne]

Yes, the human race is worthless they say who worship Shay-El the cockroach god and smile at decay. It only takes one to tango, twos a waltz, and the cakes only half over before the coffin sings.

[librarius_qui]

Human being isn't worthless.~

But it has everything to do with feelings ... According to your title: "do you feel?"

So, what leads someone to feel this way? Well, don't answer, I don't think it might be the point, but think.

I felt miserable, now and again, but not everyday.

Being human is about being happy sometimes, and miserable now and again, and tired of working, and enjoying a holliday, sometimes, waiting for the weekend to come, hating mondays ...

If you feel miserable all the time, perhaps you're not living in a .. human condition.

According to what has been said, it usually has to do with yourself, rather than with others. Usually, but not necessarily. If everyone around you annoy you, maybe it's time to spend some time alone ...

I don't know.

A hobby might be good as well.

Sports.

Cooking?

(Eating!)

Maybe playing chess with yourself ...

I don't recommend tv.

Nature!: run away, climb a mountain!

See the ocean.

Walk under the moon.

Hear some music ... Mallu Magalhaes, perhaps?:

After all the weekend
On a supposed calm sunday afternoon
At the moment she could see the moon
When I saw her she was just crying
Right under my fav’rite tree

I talked to her and I was trying
To show her what she couldn't see
Behind the flowers in the light she found the sun
Behind the sad I showed her that life is pretty fun

(...)

Hey, ha, ho
There's no reason to hide
I could be a kind of a guide
I could be by her side

Yeah, yah, yo
She could be just with me
& I would be grateful
Cause I would feel, yes, I would feel really (cool)

If you come over I'll say chewba-dooba
If you are down, baby I'll say chewba-dooba
If you don't know where I am, I'll be chewba-doobing
If you don't know who you are
You can chewba-da, well you can chewba-dooba

[guitar_solo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIrshiKvw6U
(I just found her out ...)

(She doen't make a pig ... Well, if you can only see a pig, at least there are cute pigs that seem to have poped out of manga books ... Doesn't she resemble lightly Minmei, of Macross/Robotech? :D )

It's GOTta be worth living!

Doensn't it?

But for it to be, you must find a (one or more) reason(s).

[Delta40]

The micro far outnumbers the macro. Stop and consider them. Slow down. Bend at the knees if you must. Breathe.

Release Goliath and just be David

[imthefoolonthehill]

worthless compared to what? The question seems to presume an absolute value of worth.

And worthless to whom? Isn't worth defined by how much someone will pay for it? How much is a roasted squirrel worth to a starving man? I'd probably pay someone to get rid of it for me.

[ihavebrownhaira]

I have come to the conclusion that only certain men can see the human race for what it is at the end of the day. It takes a special person. It also takes a special person who can close his newspaper after reading that 3,000 troops or what have you have just been blown up and continue on with his day as if nothing happened. Not giving anything a second thought.

[SleepyWitch]

I have come to the conclusion that only certain men can see the human race for what it is at the end of the day. It takes a special person. It also takes a special person who can close his newspaper after reading that 3,000 troops or what have you have just been blown up and continue on with his day as if nothing happened. Not giving anything a second thought.

Continuing on with one's day is not the same as not giving anything a second thought. What would be an appropriate reaction in your book? should that newspaper reader start bawling and take a day off because he can't bear the thought of the 3,000 killed troops? That would have nothing to do with sympathy or respect for the troops and everything with self-pity on that bloke's part. Or should he jump off a bridge out of sympathy? How would that help anyone? It won't bring back the dead or make the world a better place. Again, this would be pure self-indulgence, because by committing suicide, the bloke can escape the evils of this world rather than facing up to them.
Just because people go on with their daily life doesn't mean they don't care about anything. Imagine everyone would plunge into a depression or kill themselves whenever something goes wrong in some part of the world... In that case every member of the human race would have to suffer from continuous depressions or do suicide ten times over. This is absurd.
I know this is clichéd, but there are people in poor countries who have nothing more than a hut and just about enough food and they are happy anyway.
By the way, no one ever said it's easy to be happy. It's even harder to be happy and at the same time NOT ignorant about what's going on in the world. It takes a lot of effort. In my humble opinion, negative, cynical people are just lazy and prefer whining to getting off their @rse. Most of those people have only themselves to blame because they prefer self-pity to making an effort. But on the other hand they are too cowardly to do the world a favour and shoot themselves. They'd rather moan and groan and get on everyone's nerves. Sorry, I didn't mean this personally. I was just talking about cynical people in general.
Anyways, if you really have an inferiority complex, do something that you are NOT good at. Doing things we are NOT good at makes us confident. E.g. I hate jogging, but I do it anyway and it makes me feel great.
By the way? How old did you say you were? 18? You probably won't like to hear this, but most people feel the way you do when they're 18. It's called adolescence. I felt this way when I was 18 and I didn't like it. I didn't even like myself for feeling this way. I'm glad I've grown up, even though at that time I was positive that I'd always feel this way and there was no alternative.
Maybe even old jon and Uncle Virgil felt depressed, alienated, cynical, doomed, whatever when they were 18?
Anyways, feeling that the human race is worthless does NOT make you special. So you might as well cut the cr@p :)

[ihavebrownhaira]

Drink the prunes and drink the tea run to the toilet one two three.

[Dori]

I'm not cutting anything. Perhaps you should be the one doing the cutting. I am simply speaking my mind. It was almost like a journal entry I simply submitted it to the public. I just keep learning new negative things everyday. And I am poor and tired and I keep getting average grades and it makes me feel average and I hate feeling average. Its a horrible feeling. Writing a paper and being told its average while some idiot writes about worms and apples and receives a 95. I keep hearing about all these great wise brilliant men and I feel pitiful. My fathers dead man. My mother is a witch. I hate her. She is my mother, but I do hate her and at the end of the day I stop and I say. I am nobody. I have nothing and the things I can accomplish have been done. I can't write and I can't read well and its pitiful. I am a pitiful excuse for a human being and I know this and it keeps me warm at night. It allows me to slip away and dream and its a nice feeling. I keep getting papers back saying, "Its not logical and it doesn't dance." I don't want my papers to contain logic and I don't care if they dance. I just keep getting pushed more and more and more. I know I'm not alone. Very many men get pushed and shoved and then they push and shove or they break down and become morons, but it just keeps happening and this makes me sound like a schizophrenic to some. perhaps I need a little pill to help me get through these times. Oh what a wonderful life. God bless America! The Human Race will go very far. We are the most intelligent logical race. We are the most intelligent beings on this planet. We have no soul. Only brains. Deny deny deny. I live with a pig who does not think only acts and shes a sadist and perverted and I am a sick fool.

ihavebrownhaira,
You are somebody. A human being. Just like me, him, her, and that other guy. There must be something of value beneath that pessimistic crust of yours. Trust me; there has to be.


Put a smile on, will ya? :D

[Joreads]

ihavebrownhaira,
You are somebody. A human being. Just like me, him, her, and that other guy. There must be something of value beneath that pessimistic crust of yours. Trust me; there has to be.


Put a smile on, will ya? :D

I agree with Dori here. Everyone has something to add to the human race. If you think positive it catches on believe me,

[Delta40]

It is important to not compare your work with others. As a Lit-Netter, this is a lesson of first importance. Your style will never be comparable to another's . trust me, it is apple and oranges (and worms). Focus on your past efforts instead and thrive in this way. You're 18. Watch yourself grow and flourish across a lifetime. that is more interesting than living in the shadows of others

[jon1jt]

How old did you say you were? 18? You probably won't like to hear this, but most people feel the way you do when they're 18. It's called adolescence. I felt this way when I was 18 and I didn't like it. I didn't even like myself for feeling this way. I'm glad I've grown up, even though at that time I was positive that I'd always feel this way and there was no alternative.
Maybe even old jon and Uncle Virgil felt depressed, alienated, cynical, doomed, whatever when they were 18?
Anyways, feeling that the human race is worthless does NOT make you special. So you might as well cut the cr@p :)

I never felt cynical about life the way the OP did until I graduated college and there were no more parties, then I had to go out and get a real job. :p

[weltanschauung]

I'm not cutting anything. Perhaps you should be the one doing the cutting. I am simply speaking my mind. It was almost like a journal entry I simply submitted it to the public. I just keep learning new negative things everyday. And I am poor and tired and I keep getting average grades and it makes me feel average and I hate feeling average. Its a horrible feeling. Writing a paper and being told its average while some idiot writes about worms and apples and receives a 95. I keep hearing about all these great wise brilliant men and I feel pitiful. My fathers dead man. My mother is a witch. I hate her. She is my mother, but I do hate her and at the end of the day I stop and I say. I am nobody. I have nothing and the things I can accomplish have been done. I can't write and I can't read well and its pitiful. I am a pitiful excuse for a human being and I know this and it keeps me warm at night. It allows me to slip away and dream and its a nice feeling. I keep getting papers back saying, "Its not logical and it doesn't dance." I don't want my papers to contain logic and I don't care if they dance. I just keep getting pushed more and more and more. I know I'm not alone. Very many men get pushed and shoved and then they push and shove or they break down and become morons, but it just keeps happening and this makes me sound like a schizophrenic to some. perhaps I need a little pill to help me get through these times. Oh what a wonderful life. God bless America! The Human Race will go very far. We are the most intelligent logical race. We are the most intelligent beings on this planet. We have no soul. Only brains. Deny deny deny. I live with a pig who does not think only acts and shes a sadist and perverted and I am a sick fool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gLWTtlMwo4

[SleepyWitch]

I never felt cynical about life the way the OP did until I graduated college and there were no more parties, then I had to go out and get a real job. :p

heheheh :) what decade did you grow up in? something fun like the 80s?



I am simply speaking my mind. It was almost like a journal entry I simply submitted it to the public.
so what? that doesn't make its message any truer. Whether your post is written like a journal entry, a shopping list or an academic essay, the basic content stays the same. I wrote my response almost like a journal entry. Does that make it any more convincing to you?


...makes me feel average and I hate feeling average.
guess what? probably the guys who get the good grades feel average,too. maybe your teacher is wrong about your essays, maybe he/she is right. getting average grades is NOT a free membership card for the club called "I am an oppressed artisit and the one and only true genius and if people don't understand me it's because their all daft".
What's wrong with being average? Most people are average. No one ever said you have to be special. Those who are special either are special by accident (and probably feel average themselves) or because they had a goal that they worked very hard to achieve. Claiming that the human race is worthless does NOT make you special. It's been done a million times before by both 'average' people and intellectuals and using the exact same arguments you gave.


I am a pitiful excuse for a human being and I know this and it keeps me warm at night.
Just because you feel worthless does not mean the whole human race is worthless.
Besides, if it makes you happy to feel worthless, what are you on about? I mean, if you are content feeling worthless, why do you want others to read your negative messages? There can only be two reasons. Either, you secretly want to be convinced that you are wrong, i.e. that things are not as bleak as you believe them to be. Or you are simply fishing for attention.
Anyways, if it makes you happy to feel worthless and generalize about humanity, I'll leave you to it.
Bye, have a nice life.

[Dark Muse]

I view the human race as a cancer upon the earth, they are killing it and all other living things in the name of thier own greed and selifishness. Like any cancer, I think that for the sake of all other life the human race should be oblitherated. They are all going to die once they destroy the world anyway, why should all living things suffer becasue of humans.

[Silas Thorne]

If you think the human race is worthless, don't participate in it. But that doesn't mean you can't do other things.

[Silas Thorne]

I view the human race as a cancer upon the earth, they are killing it and all other living things in the name of thier own greed and selifishness. Like any cancer, I think that for the sake of all other life the human race should be oblitherated. They are all going to die once they destroy the world anyway, why should all living things suffer becasue of humans.

Where do you get the 'they' idea from anyway. Are you not a part of it?;)

[Dark Muse]

I choose not to associate myself with the human race. I am pretty much withdrawn from all human society.

[Niamh]

Would participating on a forum not be part of a human society, albeit a virtual one?

[subterranean]

I'm not here. This isn't happening.

[Dark Muse]

Would participating on a forum not be part of a human society, albeit a virtual one?

I do not know if I would consider posting on a forum bored as parking in human soceity per sae. And the way the world is there are somethings that cannot be helped though soemday I really would not mind simply living in a cabin the middle of the forest with no sight of anyone for miles around.

[Chava]

You know what, it's a pretty bold statement to disown all of humanity. And our parituclar momentary existance on the planet may seem insignificant, my worries about dinner, and about buying bus tickets, are not big problems. My life, my death will have no impact but to those that love me.

But this is nonetheless the reality that we live in, and if you want to spend your time secluded, that's fair game, enjoy it. Personally I would rather spend my time exploring the good things, and valueing the positive parts of life. I, and indeed most here, come from extraordinarily privileged societies. It seems almost arrogant to find life to have no meaning, when others must fend through incurable diseases, that they had no part in attaining, that others are forced to be soldiers before the age of twelve, that in some places, little girls are sold as slaves. And I know people who have been through that, who have been molested, even tied to a tank and used as a human shield, who are able to find things that they can look forward to and enjoy.

The human race worthless? in comparison to what? Who ever claimed we must be a superior force? We are, and that is what matters. I would always advocate care for others and for the precious environment that we live in, but we are not worthless, the human race has given me things that are valuable to me, and wether it is self illusion or not, they are things that make my day worth waking to.

[Dori]

I view the human race as a cancer upon the earth, they are killing it and all other living things in the name of thier own greed and selifishness. Like any cancer, I think that for the sake of all other life the human race should be oblitherated. They are all going to die once they destroy the world anyway, why should all living things suffer becasue of humans.

Well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.
I suppose it's a good thing I like cookies. :D

(If I might add, your viewpoint seems altogether lacking. You are a human being too, not matter what you say, think, or do. You are a part of this so-called kiling of all living things and this so-called selfishness and greed. If I'm a cancer, you're a cancer. Have a nice day! :D)

[Dark Muse]

Well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.
I suppose it's a good thing I like cookies. :D

(If I might add, your viewpoint seems altogether lacking. You are a human being too, not matter what you say, think, or do. You are a part of this so-called kiling of all living things and this so-called selfishness and greed. If I'm a cancer, you're a cancer. Have a nice day! :D)

Exzactly, which is why I have no problem calling for the oblitheration of the human race, knowing that if such were to happen, I too would be oblitherated but I think that it would be for the greater good.

Humans no longer deserver thier right to live as a species. All other species should not have to die just for the human race, particuarly when they are already on the path destroying themselves.

It would be better if only humans were destroyed and everything else got to live.

[Dori]

Exzactly, which is why I have no problem calling for the oblitheration of the human race, knowing that if such were to happen, I too would be oblitherated but I think that it would be for the greater good.

Humans no longer deserver thier right to live as a species. All other species should not have to die just for the human race, particuarly when they are already on the path destroying themselves.

It would be better if only humans were destroyed and everything else got to live.

Animals die. People die.
People kill animals. Animals kill people.
(Luckily for us, we're on top.)

I can't imagine what killing off every human being would do to the welfare of any given ecosystem, or biodiversity in general.

And no one deserves the obliteration of an entire species. Period.
(Not even Hitler.)

Tell me, what would benefit? And how?
Tell me more about this "greater good."

[Dark Muse]

I belive that human beings are destroying the Earth. They are killing EVERYTHING. All forms of life are being killed off by humans. I do belive the Earth does not have much longer and that pretty soon humans are going to be the cause of its end.

If the entire human race was exterminated right now. Every human just gone, dissapeared. Without thier further influence the Earth would be able to in time recover itself.

If humans live, everything including humans are going to die.

If humans die, every other living thing will have a chance at life.

The way I see it humans are already on the path to bringing about the destrution of thier own exisitince, but in the process they are going to take everything else out with them. So if humans are so determined to destroy themselves, I do not think every other life form should have to die for it as well. It would be best if only the humans were eliminated so everything else could live.

[Dori]

I belive that human beings are destroying the Earth. They are killing EVERYTHING. All forms of life are being killed off by humans. I do belive the Earth does not have much longer and that pretty soon humans are going to be the cause of its end.

If the entire human race was exterminated right now. Every human just gone, dissapeared. Without thier further influence the Earth would be able to in time recover itself.

If humans live, everything including humans are going to die.

If humans die, every other living thing will have a chance at life.

The way I see it humans are already on the path to bringing about the destrution of thier own exisitince, but in the process they are going to take everything else out with them. So if humans are so determined to destroy themselves, I do not think every other life form should have to die for it as well. It would be best if only the humans were eliminated so everything else could live.

Well, I suppose I will abstain from arguing further.
Personally, I believer the earth, and even human beings, will be around longer than you think.

[Dark Muse]

I see nothing to convince me of that. As it is Polar bears may very likely go extinct in my own life time. And the Rain forest does not appear as if it has a hope of lasting much longer. Millions of acres of it has already been destroyed for good.

Everything is polluted more and more natural habitat is being devestated.

And the effects on Weather Patterns caused by Global Warrming are already happening.

[Delta40]

Dark Muse, when did you become so judgemental of others to the point of separation (above the rest of us, if you don't mind - I note the tone here very strongly because you certainly don't sound less than us) This attitude
strikes me as hypocrisy. I don't like it.

Come down off your throne
Leave your body alone
Somebody has to change

Make that somebody you. Be an agent of change and not a passive recipient. ;)

[Dark Muse]

It comes from me being a misantrhope I loathe the human race. And for as long as I can remember I have always been judegemental of the human race. I never particuarly cared for other people.

As far as me being a hyporctie, hardly. But even if I did go to the most extreme of giving up all modern conveinces and living in the middle of the woods running around naked, and using nothing at all that is harmful to the enviroment, that one loan act is not going to save the world at large.

I do what it is within my power to do. But it is going to take more than that to turn things around.

I use organic products, and I only buy from companies that have good enviromental records, I belong to varrious groups that are dedicated to helping the enviroment. I conserve as much as possible and recyle, reuse, use reusbale bags when I go to the store. All the things a single individual can do.

[Delta40]

No problem. I know where you stand. I will continue to see wonders abound. nice boundary Muse.

[SleepyWitch]

I belive that human beings are destroying the Earth. They are killing EVERYTHING. All forms of life are being killed off by humans. I do belive the Earth does not have much longer and that pretty soon humans are going to be the cause of its end.

hey Dark Muse, I kinda agree with you on that. but what if humanity was destroyed? scientists say that another species would evolve to be 'intelligent' like humans and would eventually dominate all other species. So it probably wouldn't make a difference. Dolphins or orangutans may be cute the way they are now, but give them a couple of million years to evolve in the absence of humans and they'll be just as bad as us.
Plus, wouldn't it be a better solution to develop a way of life that does not destroy the earth, or at least 'destroys' to a significantly smaller degree than our current lifestyle does? We have the technological means to do that. I agree that 'society' is not willing to do it, but if more and more individuals were willing, we'd get there some day.
What I really don't understand about cynical people who preach the destruction of humanity is why they don't set a good example themselves. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean you personally. I'm not saying "Come one, Dark Muse, jump jump jump!". I mean people with this attitude in general. Why do they wait for the human race as a species to be destroyed (by whom? itself? aliens? a flash from Heaven?)? If they are so sure that humanity is a cancer on the planet, why don't they start surgery by doing themselves in? Wouldn't it set an example for others? Or even if no one follows their example, wouldn't it be consistent to kill themselves if they really believe that they are part of a species that ought to be obliterated? I mean, these people all use up resources (e.g. by participating in forums, eating, heating, taking showers) and thus help destroy the planet, even if they shut themselves off from 'society'.
Sorry if I'm being macabre, but I just don't get it.

[SleepyWitch]

It comes from me being a misantrhope I loathe the human race. And for as long as I can remember I have always been judegemental of the human race. I never particuarly cared for other people.

As far as me being a hyporctie, hardly. But even if I did go to the most extreme of giving up all modern conveinces and living in the middle of the woods running around naked, and using nothing at all that is harmful to the enviroment, that one loan act is not going to save the world at large.

I do what it is within my power to do. But it is going to take more than that to turn things around.

I use organic products, and I only buy from companies that have good enviromental records, I belong to varrious groups that are dedicated to helping the enviroment. I conserve as much as possible and recyle, reuse, use reusbale bags when I go to the store. All the things a single individual can do.

:thumbs_up :thumbs_up
sorry, I didn't read this before. Sounds like you do a lot to save the environment. I hope I'll be able to adopt a similar life style soon. who ever said you have to single-handedly save the world though? ;) why do you put so much pressure on yourself? not even Jesus or Muhammed or Buddha (sp?) or Gandhi or Ralph Nader any other of the usual suspects managed to save the world.
what I find difficult to grasp, though, is how not caring for other people is the same as hating them or being a misanthrope. I'm a bit like you in that I've never been really interested in other people. Most of the time, I like to be left alone and I wouldn't mind living in a stone age hut on my own. but I don't hate humanity and I interact well with them as long as they don't overstep the line. I click well with other grumpy people who need lots of time to be on their own, as long as they are not misanthropic. I also click with uncomplicated, nice people (as long as they aren't stupid). I only begin to hate certain individuals when they get on my nerves too much and want to be mothered or entertained by me 25 hours a day. Or when they are really stupid and tell me the same silly things all over every time we meet.
So I guess what it takes is an ability to both shut oneself off from the nasty or silly people (about 80% :( ) and see the good in the rest of humanity (and even in those silly people). I'm not saying I have this ability, but it does seem a goal to me that is worth aspiring to.

[Dark Muse]

:So I guess what it takes is an ability to both shut oneself off from the nasty or silly people (about 80% :( ) and see the good in the rest of humanity (and even in those silly people). I'm not saying I have this ability, but it does seem a goal to me that is worth aspiring to.

I am exzactly the oppisite. I can see the good in certain individuals, but in humanity as a whole, I only see bad. I have no hope in humanity as a whole.

I have really started being something of a misanthope at a very young age. I have always been drawn more to nature and animals than to people, and as early as elementery school I developed the idea that humans were the enemey of the enviroment and of nature.

I went through a phase of being optimistic about humanity and the future around highschool, but those ideals have now been crushed.

[Dori]

I am exzactly the oppisite. I can see the good in certain individuals, but in humanity as a whole, I only see bad. I have no hope in humanity as a whole.

Don't you know that the whole is the sum of the parts? ;)

[Dark Muse]

Yes, but I dislike more people then I like. And what I basicaly meant was that just becasue I hate humanity as a whole does not mean I hate every single person as an individual, though I am automaticaly prejudged against everyone based on thier being human.

But once in a blue moon there is a rare individual that I see as being better then the massess.

[Virgil]

I must say that my philosophy has man as the epitome of creation. I am still in the Renaissance I'm afraid. How can man even appreciate art, music, literature without appreciating the creativity of man. Or man's engenuity and genius. :D

http://invisiblehandinyourpants.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/michelangelo-1.jpg

http://www.parstimes.com/spaceimages/man_on_moon.jpg

That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLu0Ak9Blog&feature=related

[weltanschauung]

I must say that my philosophy has man as the epitome of creation. I am still in the Renaissance I'm afraid. How can man even appreciate art, music, literature without appreciating the creativity of man. Or man's engenuity and genius. :D
http://www.parstimes.com/spaceimages/man_on_moon.jpg

That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLu0Ak9Blog&feature=related

virgil!!!! that was a BAD example... its pretty much out in the open nowadays that the whole man on the moon thing was a(nother huge) hoax

but instead, how about THIS huge leap:
http://www.crystalinks.com/2001monkey.jpg

http://www.mapsofworld.com/travel-destinations/images/taj-mahal.jpg

http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/10.gif

[SleepyWitch]

virgil!!!! that was a BAD example... its pretty much out in the open nowadays that the whole man on the moon thing was a(nother huge) hoax

are you sure that's not a conspiracy theory?

[Delta40]

Actually Mythbusters exploded that and man did land on the moon (or is that a conspiracy too????)

[SleepyWitch]

Actually Mythbusters exploded that and man did land on the moon (or is that a conspiracy too????)

what's Mythbusters?
edit: I agree that having a man land on the moon was not a humanity's most useful endeavour, though.

[mono]

Ah, I love absurdism! Camus, Kierkegaard, Kafka, where art thou?
I have followed this thread with some enthusiasm, smiled at most responses, frowned at few. Certainly, I would consider myself a bit more of an optimist than a pessimist, and have gotten quite good at it, but I would never call myself a ray of sunshine - I know myself as impatient, difficult to forgive, somewhat materialistic and Hedonistic, and I drink more wine than the soil beneath a grapebush.
It seems easy to slip into a thought that all of the human race seems worthless - the media covers murders, rapes, robberies, but one rarely hears of successful, miraculous births, we obsess of wars, global warming, international relations (or lack thereof), drug warfare, endangered species, poverty and starvation in other countries, animal abuse and abandonment, and how human fuel these, but one often simply shrugs his/her shoulders when two countries previously at war sign a treaty, when Al Gore comes to town teaching of Kyoto, scientists breed panda bears, or when an unsuccessful greyhound gets adopted from the Humane Society by a loving family. Cynicism seems so much easier to breed than optimism; we learn nursery rhymes that reek of happy endings in childhood, then come to literature that does not contain a good plot without an intriguing problem, whether by a hero/ine overcome or not.

Not to sound too stereotypical of 'what I have seen,' but as an RN who works in an intensive care unit, I have encountered many individuals in some impressively high extents of suffering and in their ends, miserable deaths, the endings of long marriages, the endings of motherhood and fatherhood. A former patient of mine, her last words consisted of asking for me, a nurse who had cared for her on multiple admissions. Would my presence have meant anything to her during her last moments, or anything to any patient I have cared for in his/her final hours? Probably, but it never fails to depress me afterwards, such as after an unsuccessful code blue occurs, when a husband of 50-something years sees his wife undergoing chest compressions, defibrillation, and invasive procedures, then regrets never apologizing for an argument they had gotten into the night previous while saying goodbye.

Do we seem entirely worthless? Perhaps, but it depends upon what side of the coin you look, and who you allow to nurture your thoughts (nature vs. nurture); if you overlook the mother feeding her newborn child in the park to see the police failing to stop a man from stealing an elderly woman's purse, then, yes, possibly we seem worthless. If you can see the construction of the Burj Dubai, the training of Lance Armstrong, the successful abolitionist movement of 1863 in the U.S., and the ambulation of a patient you contributed to saving in a cardiopulmonary arrest, you cannot deny some worth.

[PoeticPassions]

So long as there is hope and love, there is purpose. There have been great men in history that have made huge impacts on humanity-- some advanced human rights, some advanced peace, and some spread love and forgiveness. Among the great men, have been "evil" men... those that caused wars; that spread fear; that killed a countless number of people. These contraries have always existed, and they shall most likely not cease to exist. I suppose one needs hate to have love... but this is getting off the point.

Whether or not there is an actual purpose to humanity--that can be debated. Religious people will argue that our purpose lies in serving God and so forth, while others might say that we are all living in random chaos, and Nature is both brutal and beautiful; capable of massive destruction, yet also of creation. Regardless of the view, I believe that there is worth in every single person... every person is someone who has potential for hate and for love; for empathy and indifference; for "evil" and compassion. We can learn from every person (whether they commit atrocious or beautiful acts) and what they have done with their potential. Today, someone showed a lot of compassion, and today that person was worth to me more than any material wealth or any hedonistic enjoyment/pleasure/gratification.

The love I feel from those around me offers me a purpose... a hope... and creates value for all of these things.

We have seen the worst of humanity, and we have seen the best of humanity. The knowledge that individuals or groups have produced. Scientific advancements, literature, poetry, amazing architecture, revolution, etc... these are surely beautiful. Even in the midst of suffering, there is always something beautiful. Always something that makes us crave life.

I suppose that in the bigger picture of things, we might just be worthless. Worthless to this planet (or rather we are destroying this planet so we are beyond worthless). But we are here. We will be here until we die out as a species (who knows when that might be?) and so we have to make the best of it. Each person should strive to change the world for the better... to improve... to work for the collective good... FOR HUMANITY. If you don't, then you become part of the problem. And merely complaining about worthlessness entraps you into mediocrity and helplessness. Try to be of value.

PRACTICE UBUNTU

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu)

[The Comedian]

Nope. Not me. I think the human race is full of worth -- worth is everywhere. This Jack Daniels and spring water that I have right now, for example: it just seems to get more worthwhile with every sip.

And I have two beautiful daughters who show me the value of humanity with every breath -- even when they're driving me crazy.

And nothing beats reading Walden by the lake near our house on a quiet morning. And my phalaenopsis is in bloom -- 9 flowers. I love it.

[Virgil]

virgil!!!! that was a BAD example... its pretty much out in the open nowadays that the whole man on the moon thing was a(nother huge) hoax


What?? Of course it is true. Apollo 11, July 20th, 1969. That was the first time. Then there was six more missions and five more landings on the moon. Hey I used to pay hookey from school so I could stay home and watch on TV. I can't believe there are people who think it was a hoax.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_program

[Silas Thorne]

Yes, the moon story is a hoax to keep us from finding out who our true masters are: the lizard people who live under the earth. ;)

[Silas Thorne]

Seriously, from my perspective I believe that the actions of one person can make a big difference to the world, for either good or evil, and that there are many more people who make a positive difference to the world than a negative one. I think there's hope for the world (including the natural world) and the human race.
I heard a quote from a wise Japanese guy called Doshin So, and it has been translated from Japanese:
'the person, the person, everything depends upon the quality of the person'.

[weltanschauung]

are you sure that's not a conspiracy theory?

blah it doesnt matter, but in any case, are you sure it isnt :p

[weltanschauung]

What?? Of course it is true. Apollo 11, July 20th, 1969. That was the first time. Then there was six more missions and five more landings on the moon. Hey I used to pay hookey from school so I could stay home and watch on TV. I can't believe there are people who think it was a hoax.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_program


hey, just for the sake of it, everyone saw these too
http://www.cabiz.net/zolaric/ccposter.jpg



http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c224/facist_jockitch/sm/catfight7iu.gif

[wat??]

After reading The Mysterious Stranger it has finally dawned on me how worthless we are as human beings! Kurt Vonnegut emphasized this before his death and he is absolutely right. After all the violence and abuse and war and dirty money and rape and murder and drugs. Shouldn't we just end this? Pretty soon the Earth will be so overpopulated that there will be no more resources for us to consume and destroy. It is sad. I see it everyday. I work a bad job and I live in a bad town and I've traveled and I still see this pain and nonsense. It happens all the time. Every single day. Good things do happen rarely, but usually they get run over. When one lives through a bad childhood I believe ones bull**** sensor begins to run properly and one can take away all the glamor and bull**** and begin to see things for what they really are.

I look in the mirror and i see a pig. I look at my grandmother and i see a pig. Every face I stare into I see a deceitful pig staring back at me. OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK. Some may claim I'm insane, but take the time to think about it. Year after year day after day second after second there is constant pain and war and violence and there is no end in sight! Things have been getting worse even! Now we have bombs that could kill us all in a second if not less! Think about this!

After the holocaust we claimed there would never be so much gruesome killing again, but in the 90's in Africa more than 800,000 people were slayed at one time. It doesn't stop people! It never stops. I see how piggish we are at work and at home and at school and you do too. It does not stop. I will never have children. I will not contribute to this sick experiment.

Kurt Vonnegut certainly did not emphasize that human beings are worthless.

[NikolaiI]

what's Mythbusters?
edit: I agree that having a man land on the moon was not a humanity's most useful endeavour, though.

It's a show which has a team of people and they try to prove true or false various myths... I've only seen it a couple times... like for instance whether or not you could shoot someone down from being hanged by a rope with a gun from that time period, or whether cigarette lighters can explode (they can if you have a whole, whole lot of them together, but then it's not very big)

[SleepyWitch]

blah it doesnt matter, but in any case, are you sure it isnt :p

yes. I'm sure it's a conspiracy theory.

[weltanschauung]

Actually Mythbusters exploded that and man did land on the moon (or is that a conspiracy too????)

i bet they exploded indeed http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c224/facist_jockitch/sm/doh.gif

hey man, no offense, but a tv show?
come on..
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c224/facist_jockitch/sh/310981.jpg
think it, speak it, buy it, drink it
read it, vote it!
use it, eat it, hear it, say it
have it, live it, spend it, be it


yes. I'm sure it's a conspiracy theory.

good for you :thumbs_up
however...

[Eugenie]

I have to go with God's opinion of the human race :For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotton Son.............

Now to do that shows that God considers us terribly valuable and worth suffering for.
there is a portion in the Bible, I would have to find it, but I remember when a child reading that humans became so evil and selfish and cruel and murderous and wanton at one point that God'grieved in His heart and was sorry that he had made man. Sorry, but still wanting to redeem us and love us and share his awesome universe with us.
It is the things people do that are depraved and deceitful and cruel and so on that make it seem that mankind is worthless I guess. But when you look at the new born babe, see the innocence and beauty, when someone does a random act of purely unselfish kindness for someone else, then you see what human kind was fashioned to be.
I always remember the story of a priest who was in a German concentration camp and it was the practise to kill a person or more for something to do in a day I suppose. A man was chosen and was terrified and heart broken, for he had family and had hope still......
This priest walked up to the guards and asked to be killed instead and they agreed and forced him to drink something that ate the insides of him , being the nice men they were. That strengthened the others, that act of divine kindness.
So, no I think humankind is very very precious.

[1n50mn14]

yes. I'm sure it's a conspiracy theory.

Unfortunately, very basic science proves it wasn't a hoax.
Check out this (http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/) website.

[ihavebrownhaira]

I am the founder of this thread and I am proud-well I was proud- that I have created this thread, but it has gone too far. Now we are talking about poor television shows and man walking on the moon. We have gone too far. Of course people will continue to go, but out of respect for my misery and out of respect for my having the guts to write such a thread I would like to end it now. I don't believe this will happen and its fine. I no longer care to look at it.

[NikolaiI]

Unfortunately, very basic science proves it wasn't a hoax.
Check out this (http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/) website.

I think, though I only looked at this thread briefly the other day... Sleepy was saying it's a conspiracy theory that the moon landing was a hoax, and she's saying it was real.