Rethinking Young Adult Lit.

[Dark Muse]

I am currently taking a class in Child Lit, and one of the thing the teacher in the class likes to do, which is kind of interesting is showcase books that challenge the ideas that adults have about children/young adults and what is or is not appropriate for them to read, and who should be the one to determine what things are or are not appropriate for certain age groups and the idea that children's books are often biased by what the adults think the children should be reading. So in the class she assigns a lot of books that have been banned or challenged because they contained material that was thought not appropriate for the age group that the books were written for.

Right now we just started reading The Chocolate Wars, which I have never heard of before, and it is a book that is often challenged, and it is written for teenagers, the characters in the book are high school students, and knowing that it was written specially for the Young Adult audience I was at first surprised by the references to sex within the book, and the mention of drugs, while I am totally against all censorship, thinking of the book as a Young Adult book, it did initially take me back to read it, and it was not at all graphic, or dwelled upon, it was just mentioned in passing, there is one of the characters who makes a comment about masturbation, and it talked about sneaking playboy magazines, and reading them in the bathroom and one character mentions pot, though he is not actually smoking it.

So at first reading it I was a bit surprised, but then when I really think about it, when I was in high school I was reading Anne Rice, which is full of very strong homo eroticism and Cry to Heaven I read in high school, and excellent book but it involves Cardinals having sexual relations with young male opera singers. I read some very adult material as a teenager that was far more graphic and subversive then anything in this book thus far.

Then the other thing I thought about it, is these are things that teenagers are actually experiencing, actually being exposed to and thinking about, talking about, engaging in. That is a part of their world, their life, so why shouldn't they have books that speak to them, that they can relate to, that talks to things that are familiar to them. It is not as if reading it in the book is going to suddenly give them the idea to do it, they are already living it, it is already in their minds.

[mayneverhave]

Funny you should say that: My 9th grade English teacher (who was quite inspired, by the way) had us read The Chocolate War for class. The book, for me at the time, was very interesting, it really spoke to the youth inside of me. Also, it was subconsciously the first encounter I had with T.S. Eliot - with the protagonist's locker poster saying: Do I Dare Disturb The Universe? A very inspiring bit of verse for a young adult.

[1n50mn14]

Teens are exposed to far more than many adults think, and I'm saying this as a teen. Drugs, masturbation, sex, death and lust are not unfamiliar to teens, nor are racial slurs and differences, many political ideas, etc. (Or at least they weren't at my highschool.)

I don't believe in cencorship. The world is out there. We're going to find out about it eventually. Why not have it explained to us by some of the finest- our teachers, who are, after all, there to teach us- not only about literature and sciences, but about life and other people and morals, etc. (Though that is not, perhaps, their place.) I think educated people (e.g. teachers) should hold in their hands the power to sway the children and the teens, and they are the ones best qualified to explain the content of much 'controversial' literature, controversial themes in literature, and controversial ideas and plots (e.g. drugs, sex, etc.) within literature.

[Dark Muse]

It is funny now that I think of it, taking this class, one of the things the teacher talks about a lot is how a lot of Childrens/Young Adult books are made just as much for the parents as for the Chidlren, becasue they have to appeal to the parents if they are going to buy them for the kids, and a lot of the books that are banned or challanged are done so by parents.

But I do not know if this is unusual or not, but of course for me at the time it seemed normal and I never gave it thought, but for me from middle school-high school, pretty much once I got old enough to pick out my own books for myself my mother never preapproved the things I read, she let me pick out whatever books I wanted for myself and gave me free reign in my reading.

I was reading a lot of books that were geered to adults on my teen years.

[Il Penseroso]

I took a similar class (Adolescent Lit.) last semester in which my professor did basically the same. We studied Catcher in the Rye as well as a book by Ned Vizzinni called Be More Chill. Though I can't recommend the latter for something that should be tought in schools (the literary value is somewhat shoddy), it is interesting to read and try to figure out what adolescent students might get out of it. There's lots about sex and drugs in it, though it is definitely geared toward a young audience.

[mono]

Interesting thread. :nod:
I have never read The Chocolate Wars, as I tend not to keep up with young adult literature too much, but I think I have seen it on the shelves; from what it sounds, it has lit a bit of controversy.
What seems appropriate for one age, but not another, I would not call myself the best judge, having very liberal views on censorship and considering it a travesty, but it seems so much easier for parents to censor what gets taught in schools, what books to read, than for the parents to turn off the television, showing adult themes, violence, and, in my opinion, inappropriate language for a child to hear; around here, we call it the 'electronic babysitter.' In Pixar's The Incredibles, though I loved it, the sexual references in the film to the wife's flexibility seem no more or less adult-themed than any brief references you, Dark Muse, mentioned in The Chocolate Wars.
In childhood, having read many books that have now gotten banned, and, in my opinion, I seem no more-or-less corrupted than the grown child, I would allow a child to explore; whatever literature appeals to him/her, read it, for it seems not nearly as toxic as television. If I had a child (imagine that!:D), I would not hand him/her the latest edition of Penthouse Letters for reading material, per se, but if s/he wanted to read something that made references to masturbation, marijuana, and homoeroticism, it sounds no more tainted than some of the presupposed analogies written in the classics I read as a child; knowledge appears too great to restrict to only what seems appropriate.

Two acquaintances of mine, a male homosexual couple, have a lot to say on this issue; both carry Ph.D.'s, teach at their individual universities, and write, in addition. One wrote a short novel, young adult fiction, about the time he discovered his homosexuality, in his young teenage years; I even got around to reading it about a year ago - not bad! He has received mixed reviews, and, of course, the negative comments protrude sharper, but young adults and their parents have read it, and it still sits for sale on bookstore shelves. Why hide something they will discover regardless? If they must discover it, would not it make more of an impact on the children hearing it from their parents, rather than on television or from schoolmates?

[Dark Muse]

Yes I agree with you, and well I can say from my own experince in high school, as well thought I myself did not smoke I hung out with the stonners, and I am sure it is no surprise, that teenage boys talk about sex and in many high schools, you are going to be exposed to drugs as well as ideas relating to sex. It is not like they never heard of sex and drugs untill they read about it in a book.

When I was younger then high school a friend of mine found a Hustler magazine somewhere and we were sitting there looking at it and it did not make me a devient, or tramatize me. Of course that does not mean you should give your children pornography to read.

But I think it could acutally be beneficial rather then harmful if books made for young adults include things that they can acutally relate to in thier own lives, and having sexual or drug references in the book is not going to be the thing that makes the kid decide to go out and do it, besides it is not as if the book is promoting it, it is just talking about the realy world of teenagers and real things they experince and talk about.

[Chava]

I suppose the cuture gap between the states and here is large. When i was just in 7th grade (that's 13) we were reading books with explicit sex scenes, blowjobs and all, for my danish class, and asked to analyse on the relationship between the two main characters. And it wasn't even something that made us giggle on the back row.

In some ways the Danish society has been very open for many years, and it has made many things a very natural part of our adult lives. It has broken down taboos, and it's left us without a moral majority. In fact it's a favourite public secret, that HC.Andersen himself was gay, and used to make a note in his diary whenever he had masturbated... And all us deviant danes are thinking, "Oh that's nice, makes him more human".

[Dark Muse]

I have always been more in line with the European treatment of sex and nudity, then the uptight Americans. But that is what you get from a country that was founded by Puritans. It is a shame.

Being a Pagan of course my own views are for more loose, liberal, and open, and I do not personally think sex or nudity should be made into a taboor or opressed. It is all perfectly natural.

[Zee.]

Well, Young - Adult's are not "children"

It'd be quite strange if they weren't exposed to any of that until they were adults.

I really can't stand the negative attachment to sex these days. It's like people should be ashamed of something as natural as the damn earth.
Drives me absolutely insane.

[Dark Muse]

In the literary world though young adults are viewed as children. We spoke about this in my class, and "Childrens Books" are genreally classified as being from age 0-18.

And in our class we have had discussions about how to determeine which books should be read by what age groups and how the distictions are made, and who are the ones that make those distictions.

[oopsycandy]

Its a really interesting topic, I don't pre approve anything my 13yr old reads but then again I don't really need to as we often talk about what we're reading. My daughter will ask me too when there is something she does'nt understand in what she is redaing.


However I would be very uncomfortable trying to explain various sexual acts to her or indeed my 11yr old :eek:

While young adults are exposed to sex and drugs there is probably always a certain part of me that will want to maintain the innocence(ignorance?) of my children.

My children were given sex education at school but we had and do continue to discuss various issues in regard sex/drugs etc..

I don't know how anybody can decide what is age appropriate it must be a complicated and thankless task in a lot of ways because you are never going to please everyone!!!

Its a difficult thing balancing educating your kids enough that they are safe and happy in the world and keeping them protected from it.

I have to say I would object to my kids reading literature at school that included sexual acts previously mentioned, but I would'nt have a problem with them reading something that referenced sex or drugs in context.

[QuestingScholar]

In some ways the Danish society has been very open for many years, and it has made many things a very natural part of our adult lives. It has broken down taboos, and it's left us without a moral majority. In fact it's a favourite public secret, that HC.Andersen himself was gay, and used to make a note in his diary whenever he had masturbated... And all us deviant danes are thinking, "Oh that's nice, makes him more human".

Chava, I just came across this information earlier today while working on some graduate work on Hans Christian Andersen! How coincidental!

As far as "controversial" young adult literature . . .

I do not think there is much controversy in its existence. However, it becomes controversial when it is taught in American schools. As a teacher, I am always concerned with what I choose. One of my coworkers decided to go ahead and use The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian by Sherman Alexie with her class. It contains a somewhat graphic description/reference to masturbation that I would hesitate to include in my class. Now, I wouldn't mind teaching it, I'm just not reading for potential parental lashback. Give me a few more years!

I think using texts to address relevant issues in high school (even middle school) to explore topics of multiculturalism, sexuality, and risk is beneficial, as that is where students are in their lives.

Again, I think the inclusion of these topics in novels are fine, and students should be able to read them. However, I also know they are not always read due to fear of community response--that, and the need to cover certain classics in the curriculum.

[subterranean]

In the literary world though young adults are viewed as children. We spoke about this in my class, and "Childrens Books" are genreally classified as being from age 0-18.

And in our class we have had discussions about how to determeine which books should be read by what age groups and how the distictions are made, and who are the ones that make those distictions.

I wiki-ed 'young adult' in attempt to find out the age range involved. I see that when it comes to literature, it refers to the age group between 12 to 18, which I found a little bit 'interesting' as I'd not consider a 12 years old as a young adult nor define an 18 years old as a child. Moreover, depending on the field of studies (e.g. Literature, Advertising, Sociology, Psychology) we might find different age ranges. I'm not realy sure, but I suppose the age range in literary world would most likely based on definitions from other field of studies (i.e. Sociology).

[Dark Muse]

When deciding what books should be classified into what age groups, a lot of it does come from adults ideology about children and what childhood is, and part of it of course has to do with culture as well as time period. But a lot of the way books are classified has to do with adults preceptions of children or young adults.

For instance one of the books we read called The Owl Service, is about this Celtic/Welsh myth that is sort of being retold in a modern context, that was a young adult book, and the Garner held the view that "Children/Young Adults" are intelligent, and would get the book, and should be alloud to think for themselves and be left with questions and have some mystery, and not have everything framed. The ending if very open, and as the story starts it does not spell out exzactly what was happening it leaves questions that you have to figure out as you go along and peice things together.

So the book reiceived a lot of critisim from adults who do not feel as if Children would get it, or be able to understand it.

But the young adult readers of the book really liked it and they did get it.

And part of that book was cultural, it was published in the UK I beleive, and the author himself was Welsh, so there were things in the book that would be obvious to a Welsh child, that an American might not pick up on.

[Niamh]

This is actually a very interesting topic. I, as you all know, have spent the last four years working for a booksellers in Ireland. I am also a lover of Childrens and Young Adult books.
Now the issue of content and what catagory a book should go under has happened a few times to me in work. There are some books classed as independant reader that i would class as young adult because they have a sexual content. If a book is a bout teens and has a sexual underlinging theme, i would not question whether it shouldnt be read by YA. If it was a childrens book on the other hand i would, and have, and those books have since been moved to the YA section.
I couldnt help but smile when i read you post about reading Rice in High School. I was reading her when i was in Secondary school (12-18. Probably where the YA classifications come from...). I think i read Cry to Heaven when i was 15. Its an amazing book. (Although i'm surprised the church didnt ban it in Ireland! :p ) Now if i had a child on the other hand, i dont think it would bother me if at that age they were reading things like Cry. If they were 11... that would be different. Although, i dont think i'd let them read the claiming of Sleeping beauty books she wrote regardless of what age!
As for porn... would you believe me if i told you that there is no age restriction on the sale of prono mags in Ireland?? Technically if a 14 year old walked up to me with Nuts magazine i could sell it to him. ( dont though as there is also no legislation to say i cant deny the sale to the 14 year old.) I cant find any info regarding the sale of Porn mags to under whatever age in ireland either.

[Chava]

Teens should be informed. Reading about sex, drugs, and so forth takes away some of the mystery, and I am sure it is part of the mystery that is so alluring. When things are out in the open, it's easier to make rational choices and be responsible about things. The books we read back then were as much about matters of the heart, as they were about how embarressing it would be to put on condoms.

I think knowledge is very important, and I'm secretly plotting that when I have teens of my own, I'll leave books about sex, and innocent teen novels lying around for them to read "secretly", rather than them having to investigate dodgy internet pages.

[Niamh]

I dont see the problem with teens reading books that take on the issue of sex...I mean they probably already had sex ed by the time they start reading the books. I had it in primary school.

[mono]

Days ago, midly sleep-deprived, with one of my fellow literary geeks, who happens to collect comic books, we wandered into a comic book store. I saw what I expected, Batman, Spiderman, Superman, The Incredible Hulk, a few of The Simpsons, Ren & Stimpy, etc. Lastly, I walked into the section of more recent comics. I saw children, perhaps as young as 6 or 7, their parents nearby, paging through some of the most violent animations I have seen, literally people getting dismembered, cannibalism, autopsies, murderers dancing with barely-alive victims; I must say, I felt impressed by the graphics - very detailed.
Unless we speak of the comic strips in The New Yorker, I thought most comics, cartoons, and bubbled conversations had the intention of reaching children and young adults. What I post to 'Rethinking Young Adult Lit.' points out the irony in this situation - how parents/guardians stand amid their children reading and observing extraordinarily violent material, yet have no hesitation of censoring what the two parents performed to have their child, nor ridding an entire classic novel in classrooms for the writing of one word, as a slang for an African-American. Does anyone else find this strange?
Though the majority of parents do not take their children to comic book stores, and I do not mean to place the label of those specific parents in the store for censoring literature, less than one mile from that store sat a public library that I recall seeing a display of books banned for their 'inappropriate content' from schools.
Does violence seem more acceptable to read than of sex? Would a parent feel relieved to find a copy of Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler between the mattresses of a teenage boy, rather than The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn or a Hustler magazine?

[Dark Muse]

That is the great debate in media of many forms, the whole why parents are willing to expose thier children to strong violence and yet scream bloody marry at nudity and sex.