Humanity Needs Islam

[Wael Manzalawy]

The human nature means the soul and the body. A man without a spiritual life is no longer a man. Equally, whoever proclaims that spiritual training can delete the materialistic demands of that body is a devil in the clothes of a saint. Can he give up sleeping? Is he ready to destroy his body and to be a soul flying in the world of ideals?

The holy Quran says:

"O you mankind, a proof has already come to you from your Lord ; and We have sent down to you an evident light. So, as for the ones who believed in Allah and firmly adhered to Him, then He will soon cause them to enter into a mercy from Him, and Grace, and will guide them to Him on a straight path"

This Grace and mercy from Allah Al-Mighty is true for the believers in life and in the day after. The heaven is the endless grace and mercy. It is not only a spiritual heaven but the materialistic pleasures are innumerable there. Equally, in our life Islam does not forbid materialistic pleasures, but Islam is a unit of enjoying our lives and, more important, obeying our God and creator. Thus, without Islam there can never be a balance and harmony between the soul and the body. Who do not believe in that can do a comparison between Islam and other doctrines and the result is undoubtable.

[NickAdams]

This chat is far from general. You should have posted in religion.

[Logos]

thread now moved :)

[planet earth]

This is beautifully written

Thank you Wael

[Rozzy]

Islam is just another religion that has joined the crowd.

[mariem]

Islam is not just another religion as Rozzy said. Islam is the religion of all Mankind . All humanity needs Islam as Wael said.

[JBI]

Humans existed for hundreds of thousands of years before Islam, they don't need Islam.

[NickAdams]

The human nature means the soul and the body.

Does it? Human nature refers to innate responses of the the brain (is the brain not the body?). What is this soul?


A man without a spiritual life is no longer a man.

If a man without a spiritual life is no longer a man, then how can he be a man without a spiritual life?


Equally, whoever proclaims that spiritual training can delete the materialistic demands of that body is a devil in the clothes of a saint.

Are you addressing a particular religion? I would call this proclaimer hopeful, idealistic and perhaps naive, but to say that he is a devil in the clothes of a saint suggest that the proclaimer is aware of their folly. It is a very aggressive statement and you condemn someone who may have earnest faith in humanity. It would be like calling someone wishing to end poverty a "capitalist swine" in the clothes of a humanist.


Can he give up sleeping?

There is a child who has never slept due to a brain malfunction, so yes he can. Would you like the link to that report?


Is he ready to destroy his body and to be a soul flying in the world of ideals?

The brain is a part of the body and by destroying the body, you destroy the brain. Ideas are created by the brain, so how can this "soul" fly in something that is dead?

Ideas do not belong to the "soul". Humanity does not belong to the "soul". What are the qualities of the soul? What does it produce?



This Grace and mercy from Allah Al-Mighty is true for the believers in life and in the day after.

So is it false for the non-believers? This seems like subjective truth based on perception and I believe that if one believes in an afterlife they will move onto it and those who don't will not, but those who don't can not attend a damnation they have not accepted an invitation to.


Thus, without Islam there can never be a balance and harmony between the soul and the body. Who do not believe in that can do a comparison between Islam and other doctrines and the result is undoubtable.

OK, lets see what is written in the Tao-Te Ching:



Chapter 38:

The highest virtue is not virtuous; therefore it truly has virtue.
The lowest virtue never loses sight of its virtue; therefore it has no true virtue.

The highest virtue takes no action, yet it has no reason for acting this way;
The highest humanity takes action, yet it has no reason for acting this way;
The highest righteousness takes action, and it has its reasons for acting this way;
The highest propriety takes action, and when no one responds to it, then it angrily rolls up its sleeves and forces people to comply.

Therefore, when the Way is lost, only then do we have virtue;
When virtue is lost, only then do we have humanity;
When humanity is lost, only then do we have righteousness;
And when righteousness is lost, only then do we have propriety.

As for propriety, it's but the thin edge of loyalty and sincerity, and the beginning of disorder.
And foreknowledge is but the flower of the Way, and the beginning of stupidity.

Therefore the Great Man
Dwells in the thick and doesn't dwell in the thin;
Dwells in the fruit and doesn't dwell in the flower.
Therefore, he rejects that and takes this.

[NickAdams]

Humans existed for hundreds of thousands of years before Islam, they don't need Islam.

I would be interested in a religion whose text predated history. A text where insight predated man's observations. Only then would I be convinced that the word was of God and not man's creation.

[jon1jt]

Islam needs followers or else Islam is no more.

[kilted exile]

From a personal standpoint - this human needs a strong drink

[planet earth]

Humans existed for hundreds of thousands of years before Islam, they don't need Islam.

Oh, actually this is always misunderstood. Islam is not the religion that prophet Muhammad came with only. It is a much broader term.

Islam, is translated in most scriptures as "bowing down" to the Godly order, in the Quran it will be usually translated surrender. whether surrendering to His Will or Bowing down to his Will it has always been the same, before Humanity.
THe problem is we value ourselves so much to the extent that we refuse to see, that we do not move our joints, except according to Allah's will, and so on. We cannot chose our death time, or have we chosen our birth day and the Power that has chosen all this for us is our Creator Allah, who reports that Abraham chose the word Muslim, to describe the rest of descendants.

We are unable to create any sort of creation, so why deny the Power of Allah.

Wael was very clear in what he wanted to convey. He was conveying we need balance between everything in our lives. we need to be central one way or another.

THe word of GOd has always been the same.

To be in a state of Islam, it is very simple, to worship then obey and that is it.

[billyjack]

actually as far as i can tell in this day and age, the world most certainly does not need islam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZyPhOoNx6k&feature=related ....this guy is an american educated jew who converted to islam and moved to the middle east

[blp]

actually as far as i can tell in this day and age, the world most certainly does not need islam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZyPhOoNx6k&feature=related ....this guy is an american educated jew who converted to islam and moved to the middle east

Let's not judge the whole barrel by a few bad apples.

Still, I'd tend to agree that the world doesn't need Islam any more than it needs Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Satanism, Scientology, Buddhism, Shintoism or any other religion.

[billyjack]

agreed but its tough not to. without a higher authority to appeal to, insane comments like the ones in the link above might not be so prevalent. i guess i'm a throw the baby out with the bathwater type when it comes to theism. (its not a popular stance to take amongst my buddies--i get called a tyrant sometimes)

[Zee.]

What humanity NEEDS is the ability to choose for themselves what religion, if any, they wish to follow.

Choice. Choice. Choice.

Plus a good kick up the ... booty

[NickAdams]

agreed but its tough not to. without a higher authority to appeal to, insane comments like the ones in the link above might not be so prevalent. i guess i'm a throw the baby out with the bathwater type when it comes to theism. (its not a popular stance to take amongst my buddies--i get called a tyrant sometimes)

I'm not a member of any party, but the the chapter I quoted from the Tao-Te Ching sums up my thoughts on needing an authority to persuade one to be moral with the promise of a reward (or punishment, for those motivated by fear):

"The highest virtue is not virtuous; therefore it truly has virtue.
The lowest virtue never loses sight of its virtue; therefore it has no true virtue"

[lupe]

" Those that deny Our revelation We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed that We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise."

The Coran, 4:55-56

This is how much Humanity needs Islam.

[Remarkable]

We are unable to create any sort of creation, so why deny the Power of Allah.


We are unable to create? Then what are books? Plays? Buildings? Television sets? Films? The internet? Vehicles? These emotions I see by the side of my screen?

Lupe, you have a very good point there:thumbs_up!

[blp]

agreed but its tough not to. without a higher authority to appeal to, insane comments like the ones in the link above might not be so prevalent. i guess i'm a throw the baby out with the bathwater type when it comes to theism. (its not a popular stance to take amongst my buddies--i get called a tyrant sometimes)

I'm for that too. I guess I'm just a little oversensitive about the fanatics from this particular religion appearing in any way to be the part that stands for the whole. You know... darnit, I can't say anymore. Orange jumpsuits. Come for the beaches, stay for the waterboarding. etc.

[Wael Manzalawy]

Hi NickAdams,

You deny the presence of the soul because you cannot see and cannot touch the soul. We cannot see electricity, but we are sure that there is something called electricity because we can see its effects -the light and the heat for example-. Equally, we cannot see the soul, but we can see its effects. What is the difference between two young men: one of them can talk and move while the other is dead without any reason? He did not suffer from any disease. He was not the victim of any accident. The difference is that the soul of the first one is inside his body while the soul of the second one had left his body.

[blp]

Hi NickAdams,

You deny the presence of the soul because you cannot see and cannot touch the soul. We cannot see electricity, but we are sure that there is something called electricity because we can see its effects -the light and the heat for example-. Equally, we cannot see the soul, but we can see its effects. What is the difference between two young men: one of them can talk and move while the other is dead without any reason? He did not suffer from any disease. He was not the victim of any accident. The difference is that the soul of the first one is inside his body while the soul of the second one had left his body.

I'm sorry, but this is an absolutely outdated explanation from the days before science was able to explain this phenomenon. It's actually you who are denying what you cannot see: the complex series of relationships between chemical, biological and physical processes that take place within the body, constituting life. These processes have been painstakingly mapped by science over the centuries and can be measured and even manipulated, just as electricity can. There is, by way of contrast, simply no evidence of any kind for a soul. It's like continuing to believe that the world is the centre of the universe or is flat or carried on the back of an immense tortoise. These are simply explanations human beings gave themselves in the absence of more accurate ways of understanding things.

[Taliesin]

From a personal standpoint - this human needs a strong drink

ditto

As do I after reading this thread.

I think I should stop reading the threads where people proclaim that their religion is greatest and a must-be for all humanity, because it is impossible to argue with them - their viewpoints do usually not base on logic and rational argumentation but on faith and you can't argue about faith, really.
I suggest others also disregard this thread.

[muhsin]

I think you quite misunderstand the main theme of such a thread. It's not, although from what I regard it, like that. What that fellow (the author of this thread) was simply saying is; Humanity Needs Islam. And nothing more or less.
:idea:

[Pendragon]

Islam suffers as does Christianity because Radicals seem to be the ones people follow. Why when people choose to go in a totally chaotic direction do people allow those to be the ones who speak for them? Most Muslims are decent, law abiding, God fearing people but the radicals make them look bad. The same can be said for most if not all religions. The insanity of the few cause a blight upon the whole.

[zado_k]

Islam suffers as does Christianity because Radicals seem to be the ones people follow. Why when people choose to go in a totally chaotic direction do people allow those to be the ones who speak for them? Most Muslims are decent, law abiding, God fearing people but the radicals make them look bad. The same can be said for most if not all religions. The insanity of the few cause a blight upon the whole.

Yes it's like Richard Nixon and the Quakers! Until he came along Quakers had a pretty good rep! ;)

[planet earth]

I think the only way to find evidence of the soul is to Believe to see not see to believe.

Regarding creations, the problem is that I cannot find and English alternative for the Arabic word Khalq. Books and so on are Ibdaa, meaning creative thoughts. But we do not have the power to make a leaf and colour it green, make it yellow in autumn, then make it fall, then produce another green one and so on. We cannot even control the whether we want. What if I want it to rain tomorrow, could I order the sky to bring down the rain, and will it obey?

Do I have the ability to know what any of us are doing while offline? and so on. We are limited.

[NickAdams]

Yes it's like Richard Nixon and the Quakers! Until he came along Quakers had a pretty good rep! ;)

OMG! Nixon was a Quaker. Out of all of the different religious services I've been to, I've enjoyed the Quaker meeting the most and the things you hear are priceless.


I think the only way to find evidence of the soul is to Believe to see not see to believe.

Couldn't we equally believe "that spiritual training can delete the materialistic demands of that body"? Why deny it, just believe.

[blp]

I think the only way to find evidence of the soul is to Believe to see not see to believe.

So it's not like electricity after all?




Regarding creations, the problem is that I cannot find and English alternative for the Arabic word Khalq. Books and so on are Ibdaa, meaning creative thoughts. But we do not have the power to make a leaf and colour it green, make it yellow in autumn, then make it fall, then produce another green one and so on. We cannot even control the whether we want. What if I want it to rain tomorrow, could I order the sky to bring down the rain, and will it obey?

Do I have the ability to know what any of us are doing while offline? and so on. We are limited.

Yes, we are. I don't think anyone here would deny that. But why should that imply the existence of a being who is not limited?

[Wintermute]

ditto

As do I after reading this thread.

I think I should stop reading the threads where people proclaim that their religion is greatest and a must-be for all humanity, because it is impossible to argue with them - their viewpoints do usually not base on logic and rational argumentation but on faith and you can't argue about faith, really.
I suggest others also disregard this thread.

Thanks Taliesin, and well said. Goodness folks, it's time to grow up spiritually! The universe is such an amazingly beautiful thing. To have such an ego to believe with 100% certainty that some sky daddy created this little planet special, for some 'humanized' reason is just folly in my opinion. Whatever is really going on is likely to be far more awesome than anything our little minds can create. Human constructed religions serve mainly to cause hatred and anger for folks that believe in another human constructed religion. Can't you see that? Please, I beg you to open your minds to the possibility that you might be wrong.

Blessings,
Doug

[Pendragon]

Thanks Taliesin, and well said. Goodness folks, it's time to grow up spiritually! The universe is such an amazingly beautiful thing. To have such an ego to believe with 100% certainty that some sky daddy created this little planet special, for some 'humanized' reason is just folly in my opinion. Whatever is really going on is likely to be far more awesome than anything our little minds can create. Human constructed religions serve mainly to cause hatred and anger for folks that believe in another human constructed religion. Can't you see that? Please, I beg you to open your minds to the possibility that you might be wrong.

Blessings,
Doug

"Has It Ever Occured to You That You may Be Wrong?" Charles Schultz as Snoopy. One of the greatest statements I ever heard.

[Scheherazade]

The human nature means the soul and the body. A man without a spiritual life is no longer a man. Equally, whoever proclaims that spiritual training can delete the materialistic demands of that body is a devil in the clothes of a saint. Can he give up sleeping? Is he ready to destroy his body and to be a soul flying in the world of ideals?

The holy Quran says:

"O you mankind, a proof has already come to you from your Lord ; and We have sent down to you an evident light. So, as for the ones who believed in Allah and firmly adhered to Him, then He will soon cause them to enter into a mercy from Him, and Grace, and will guide them to Him on a straight path"

This Grace and mercy from Allah Al-Mighty is true for the believers in life and in the day after. The heaven is the endless grace and mercy. It is not only a spiritual heaven but the materialistic pleasures are innumerable there. Equally, in our life Islam does not forbid materialistic pleasures, but Islam is a unit of enjoying our lives and, more important, obeying our God and creator. Thus, without Islam there can never be a balance and harmony between the soul and the body. Who do not believe in that can do a comparison between Islam and other doctrines and the result is undoubtable.Please read the Forum rules, especially:


B: These forums are not here for preaching, or attempts to convert, nor promote other religiously affiliated websites.
http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15410