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coberst
01-13-2009, 10:29 AM
Is CT the Foreplay of Understanding?

I consider CT (Critical Thinking) for all citizens as the only avenue for improving the judgment of our society in general. CT is, in my opinion, philosophy lite; it establishes the philosophical attitude but is less filling.

Everybody considers themselves to be a critical thinker. That is why we need to differentiate among different levels of critical thinking.

Most people fall in the category that I call Reagan thinkers—trust but verify. Then there are those who have taken the basic college course taught by the philosophy dept that I call Logic 101. This is a credit course that teaches the basic fundamentals of logic. Of course, a person need not take the college course and can learn the matter on their own effort, but I suspect few do that.

The third level I call CT (Critical Thinking). CT includes the knowledge of Logic 101 and also the knowledge that focuses upon the intellectual character and attitude of critical thinking. It includes knowledge regarding the ego and social centric forces that impede rational thinking.

I think that any normal human can easily comprehend the message of CT. Very few adults have been taught CT but it can easily be learned by anyone who recognizes its importance.

Anyone who can watch TV for a few hours a week certainly has the time to learn. The problem is lack of motivation and that is due to the fact that within our society few individuals recognize that thinking can be improved by study. Because our schools and colleges have only recently began to teach the subject few people have ever heard of the subject. Everyone thinks they are critical thinkers because they know nothing about it and that is the purpose of my sounding the horn.

Our first experience with ‘understanding’ may be our first friendship. I think that this first friendship may be an example of what Carl Sagan meant by “Understanding is a kind of ecstasy”.

I also think that the boy who falls in love with automobiles and learns everything he can about repairing the junk car he bought has discovered ‘understanding’.

I suspect many people go their complete life and never have an intellectual experience that culminates in the “ecstasy of understanding”. How can this be true? I think that our educational system is designed primarily for filling heads with knowledge and hasn’t time to waste on ‘understanding’.

Understanding must come in the adult years if it is to ever come to many of us. I think that it is very important for an adult to find something intellectual that will excite his or her curiosity and concern sufficiently so as to motivate the effort necessary to understand.

We have little comprehension of ‘understanding’ because our schooling has taught us only to know. Understanding is a step beyond knowing and our society which values production and consumption has little use for understanding. Those who make public policy do not want a population that cares about understanding. The bull that understands will hook at the Matador rather than the cape.

Understanding is generally not valuable in our society and so we have little comprehension of what it is. However there seems to be one application for understanding. I have on several occasions heard a professor say that “you never really understand a subject until you try to teach it”. Here is one occasion that people can begin to comprehend the meaning of the concept. I suspect we all have a sense of what the professor is saying. So here is a ‘use’ for understanding and in this example we who only value that which is ‘useful’ can begin to gain a comprehension of the concept.

We imply that reason can be depended upon as a guide but we do not help the individual understand what reason is. The problem is that our schools and colleges are only now beginning to teach CT (Critical Thinking), which is the art and science of how to think. We adults were never taught how to think we were only taught what to think. If we do not learn how to think and how to help others learn how to think then we are giving only empty words. We are as ignorant of what reason is as those we wish to give up dogma for reason. Until we learn the art and science of reason we cannot help others to learn how to think.

Search for meaning through self-actuated study can provide a purpose similar to the purpose believers find in religion. Understanding resulting from study, leading to meaning and purpose, is perhaps a legitimate foil to dogma.

I think that understanding happens in that rare conflation of emotion and intelligence when we create a meaning that happens like a tipping point, like when water becomes ice, it gives the person a jolt, a eureka moment. When we understand we are creating meaning that is subjective but is what we find we must believe is true.

Comprehension is a hierarchy, resembling a pyramid, with awareness at the base followed by consciousness, succeeded by knowing, with understanding at the pinnacle.

I have concocted a metaphor set that might relay my comprehension of the difference between knowing and understanding.

Awareness--faces in a crowd.

Consciousness—smile, a handshake, and curiosity.

Knowledge—long talks sharing desires and ambitions.

Understanding—a best friend bringing constant April.


I am a retired engineer and my experience in the natural sciences leads me to conclude that these natural sciences are far more concerned with knowing than with understanding.

Understanding is a long step beyond knowing and most often knowing provides the results that technology demands. Technology, I think, does not want understanding because understanding is inefficient and generally not required. The natural scientists, with their paradigms, are puzzle solvers. Puzzles require ingenuity but seldom understanding.

0=2
01-16-2009, 02:22 AM
The problem is... it's all just so... dead. Like knowledge, we turned it to absolutes, forgot the relative and transient natures implicit in the formation and continuation of all knowledge. Knowledge is an active being, we need to stop snapping freezeframes and holding them to be God, but our way of knowing is so deep, so centralized, it's all we've done. Ever since htis time conceptio, this idea of becoming, of a progression towards...

We CREATED the conflict we now seek to work our way out of, but the work is not... of nor in time. It's now, it's the instance. You cannot work towards it, because that denies you the immediacy of it. Every moment is laced with ecstasy. Anyone ele find this beautiful?

Coberst, I'm interested to know, have you read The Beginnings of Learning by J. Krishnamurti? deals with many very prevalent issues in this... field. Dynamics of Time and Space by Tarthang Tulku does as well, but it's a little less immediately accessible to those seeking... answers.

coberst
01-16-2009, 08:18 AM
Coberst, I'm interested to know, have you read The Beginnings of Learning by J. Krishnamurti? deals with many very prevalent issues in this... field. Dynamics of Time and Space by Tarthang Tulku does as well, but it's a little less immediately accessible to those seeking... answers.


No, it sounds interesting.

0=2
01-17-2009, 03:22 PM
Talks about how distinguishing self from known is an assumption that naturally produces an ego through validation of the "knower" as possessor of truth, and how naturally this creates a continuum by which and through which the individual experiences reality.

coberst
01-19-2009, 09:32 AM
Talks about how distinguishing self from known is an assumption that naturally produces an ego through validation of the "knower" as possessor of truth, and how naturally this creates a continuum by which and through which the individual experiences reality.


The ego is our command center; it is the “internal gyroscope” and creator of time for the human. It controls the individual; especially it controls individual’s response to the external environment. It keeps the individual independent from the environment by giving the individual time to think before acting. It is the device that other animal do not have and thus they instinctively respond immediately to the world.

The id is our animal self. It is the human without the ego control center. The id is reactive life and the ego changes that reactive life into delayed thoughtful life. The ego is also the timer that provides us with a sense of yesterday, today, and tomorrow. By doing so it makes us into philosophical beings conscious of our self as being separate from the ‘other’ and placed in a river of time with a terminal point—death. This time creation allows us to become creatures responding to symbolic reality that we alone create.

As a result of the id there is a “me” to which everything has a focus of being. The most important job the ego has is to control anxiety that paradoxically the ego has created. With a sense of time there comes a sense of termination and with this sense of death comes anxiety that the ego embraces and gives the “me” time to consider how not to have to encounter anxiety.

Evidence indicates that there is an “intrinsic symbolic process” is some primates. Such animals may be able to create in memory other events that are not presently going on. “But intrinsic symbolization is not enough. In order to become a social act, the symbol must be joined to some extrinsic mode; there must exist an external graphic mode to convey what the individual has to express…but it also shows how separate are the worlds we live in, unless we join our inner apprehensions to those of others by means of socially agreed symbols.”

“What they needed for a true ego was a symbolic rallying point, a personal and social symbol—an “I”, in order to thoroughly unjumble himself from his world the animal must have a precise designation of himself. The “I”, in a word, has to take shape linguistically…the self (or ego) is largely a verbal edifice…The ego thus builds up a world in which it can act with equanimity, largely by naming names.” The primate may have a brain large enough for “me” but it must go a step further that requires linguistic ability that permits an “I” that can develop controlled symbols with “which to put some distance between him and immediate internal and external experience.”

I conclude from this that many primates have the brain that is large enough to be human but in the process of evolution the biological apparatus that makes speech possible was the catalyst that led to the modern human species. The ability to emit more sophisticated sounds was the stepping stone to the evolution of wo/man. This ability to control the vocal sounds promoted the development of the human brain.

Ideas and quotes from “Birth and Death of Meaning”—Ernest Becker

skasian
01-19-2009, 10:19 AM
I just been accepted to university and decided to take a paper in philosophy, topic being Critical thinking. It deals with debating and arguments but not logics. Is there a book that I should be reading to increase my knowledge in CT?
I think that critical thinking is not just about understanding something, but rather manipulating the meaning and purpose to bend it in a new way of percieving - Using what you already know and implement in a new direction, increasing the efficiency of its meaning and purpose.

Lust Hogg
01-19-2009, 02:29 PM
"I conclude from this that many primates have the brain that is large enough to be human but in the process of evolution the biological apparatus that makes speech possible was the catalyst that led to the modern human species. The ability to emit more sophisticated sounds was the stepping stone to the evolution of wo/man. This ability to control the vocal sounds promoted the development of the human brain."

What does brain size have to do with operational capacities. I do not have to be capable of substantiating some profound feeling or insight with language to be able to understand how i feel. When something is emotionally evocative, such as a film, song, or poem, i don't have to be able to linguistically describe the way i feel, to know that i am moved by something. Language is a means of organizing and categorizing our perceptual database. I don't think that the verbalization of thought was that which led to the unique and marked difference in primate and human development.

coberst
01-19-2009, 03:50 PM
I just been accepted to university and decided to take a paper in philosophy, topic being Critical thinking. It deals with debating and arguments but not logics. Is there a book that I should be reading to increase my knowledge in CT?
I think that critical thinking is not just about understanding something, but rather manipulating the meaning and purpose to bend it in a new way of percieving - Using what you already know and implement in a new direction, increasing the efficiency of its meaning and purpose.

I suggest two books written by Richard Paul and Linda Elder
Critical Thinking: What every person needs to survive in a rapidly changing world and Critical Thinking:Tools for taking charge of your professional and personal life. The former is for teachers and the later is for high schoolers.

I think that CT can be considered as 'philosophy lite' and should be taught to all high schoolers.

robertlc53
03-31-2009, 04:07 PM
Search for meaning through self-actuated study can provide a purpose similar to the purpose believers find in religion. Understanding resulting from study, leading to meaning and purpose, is perhaps a legitimate foil to dogma.

I think that understanding happens in that rare conflation of emotion and intelligence when we create a meaning that happens like a tipping point, like when water becomes ice, it gives the person a jolt, a eureka moment. When we understand we are creating meaning that is subjective but is what we find we must believe is true.


thank you coberst. in my endless digestion of philosophy, classics, and teachings in general, i am often lost for an explanation as to why i would engage in such toils. you have given me words to desrcibe the pulse in my body. i am seeking purpose. i have yet to find it and i fear that i am spiraling towards cynicism

coberst
04-01-2009, 03:15 AM
robert

A few remarks from today's Washington Post newspaper

Turn Off, Tune Out, Drop In

Yet, with so much data coming from all directions, we risk paralysis. Brain freeze, some call it. More important, we also risk losing our ability to process the Big Ideas that might actually serve us better. It isn't only Jack and Jill who are tethered to the Twittering masses, after all. Our thinkers at the highest levels are, too.

robertlc53
04-01-2009, 07:12 PM
robert

A few remarks from today's Washington Post newspaper

Turn Off, Tune Out, Drop In

Yet, with so much data coming from all directions, we risk paralysis. Brain freeze, some call it. More important, we also risk losing our ability to process the Big Ideas that might actually serve us better. It isn't only Jack and Jill who are tethered to the Twittering masses, after all. Our thinkers at the highest levels are, too.

a question:

what is the twittering mass? their nature i mean? i know a girl who drinks (IMO) far too often, sleeps with many different partners, and spents more time at a bar than in a book.

but how am i any better because i drink less, read more, and enjoy a good conversation about the hard questions that most people shrug at and say 'who cares'

where is the difference in myself and the twittering masses? (disregard the girl for it is only my inference as to what 'twittering masses' may mean; i am more interested in your opinion than debating my proposition)

secondly, what is the actual benefit from seperating oneself from 'the twittering masses'?

RobinHood3000
04-02-2009, 02:10 AM
I'm inclined to agree. Critical thinking is crucial to being able to live a life that is informed and focused. The ability to analyze and comprehend a deeper meaning is often lost in scientific studies, or at the very least reduced to a purely deductive process. I had the good fortune to receive schooling in analytical and critical thinking, and it's often heartbreaking to see people not using the thinking skills that are essential to useful function in this modern world.

coberst
04-02-2009, 08:56 AM
Solitude is a valuable resource when changes of mental attitude are required—solitude can be as therapeutic as emotional support from a friend.

Our way of thinking about life and ourselves is so habitual that it takes time and effort to change attitudes—people find it difficult to make changes in attitude but solitude and perhaps changes in environment facilitate changes in attitude because habit is fortified by external environment—religion is well aware of these facts—only through experience of change in environment can one know if such change will facilitate change in attitude—one needs not just solitude but one needs to be able to sink roots into some replenishing philosophy also.

Solitude is not to subject oneself to sensor deprivation, which can lead to hallucinations. One needs the stimulation of the senses and the intellect.

Imagination—solitude can facilitate the growth of imagination—imagination has given humans flexibility but has robbed her of contentment—our non-human ancestors are governed by pre-programmed patterns-- these preprogrammed patterns have inhibited growth when the environment changes—humans are governed primarily by learning and transmission of culture from generation to generation and is thus more able to adapt—for humans so little is predetermined by nature and so much is dependent upon learning—happiness, the contentment with the status quo is only a fleeting feeling—“divine discontent” is the gift of our nature that brings moments of ecstasy and a life time of discontent—the present is such a fleeting part of our reality that we are almost always in the past or the future.

I think that a regular dose of solitude is very important for everyone, young and old. Does that make sense to you? I think that each individual needs to make radical adjustments in their attitude toward learning when school dazes are over. Solitude might be helpful in facilitating such adjustments.

This stuff comes from reading “Solitude: A Return to the Self” by Anthony Storr. Most of this is snatches of text that is sometimes a paraphrase and sometimes a quotation