January / Thriller Reading: The New York Trilogy by Paul Auster

[Scheherazade]

In January, we will be reading The New York Trilogy by Paul Auster.

Please post your comments in this thread.
Review
Three postmodern, dream-like tales of urban paranoia on the subject of the nature of identity. In the first a crime writer is drawn into a mysterious investigation; in the second a man spies on someone from an apartment; and in the third the childhood friend of a disappeared man is made his literary executor. Auster's prose glitters and beguiles, but does not offer anything as mundane as objective truth. (Kirkus UK)

Product Description
Three stories on the nature of identity. In the first a detective writer is drawn into a curious and baffling investigation, in the second a man is set up in an apartment to spy on someone, and the third concerns the disappearance of a man whose childhood friend is left as his literary executor. http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-York-Trilogy-Ghosts-Locked/dp/0571152236/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228256876&sr=1-1

[NickAdams]

It was a nomination that started it, one of ten, and was followed by a number of votes in it's favor. The nominee, and eventual winner, was a trilogy of novels collectively known as The New York Trilogy. After reading the first chapter, I thought it would be fun to follow Quinns journey around the Upper East Side and take and post photographs of places mentioned; I thought I would try to enhance the book club experience this year.

[Virgil]

Oh Gee, I would love to read this but I'm swamped this month. I'm holding out for Kim for February. ;)

[Paige19]

I'm picking up my copy at the library tomorrow.

I love your idea, NickAdams!

[Tallon]

Picked mine up from the library today and read the first chapter on the bus home. My interest was immediately peaked by the phonecall so hopefully i'll enjoy it.

[Virgil]

It was a nomination that started it, one of ten, and was followed by a number of votes in it's favor. The nominee, and eventual winner, was a trilogy of novels collectively known as The New York Trilogy. After reading the first chapter, I thought it would be fun to follow Quinns journey around the Upper East Side and take and post photographs of places mentioned; I thought I would try to enhance the book club experience this year.


I'm picking up my copy at the library tomorrow.

I love your idea, NickAdams!

Oh now I'm really going to be jealous. I could enhance those experiences too. I may have to alter my reading priorites.

Actually if the three stories are not interlinked, I would not have to read all three. :idea:

[papayahed]

I'm about half done with the first story and I have to say it's a little creepy at the moment.

[NickAdams]

I'm picking up my copy at the library tomorrow.

I love your idea, NickAdams!

I'll have to wait until the rain passes which will be a day or two even though the rain would add accuracy to a certain scene.


Oh now I'm really going to be jealous. I could enhance those experiences too. I may have to alter my reading priorites.

Actually if the three stories are not interlinked, I would not have to read all three. :idea:

The first story, City of Glass is only 124 pages, or so, long and they're stand alone ... I think.


Picked mine up from the library today and read the first chapter on the bus home. My interest was immediately peaked by the phonecall so hopefully i'll enjoy it.

Auster had me at the "limp penis".:lol:


I'm about half done with the first story and I have to say it's a little creepy at the moment.
It gets creepier.:alien:

[Tallon]

Yes, it is unusual to have read "limp penis" and "turd" so early in a novel :P

[Virgil]

Yes, it is unusual to have read "limp penis" and "turd" so early in a novel :P

It depends what age you are, Tallon. Obviously you are not over forty. :p

[TheFifthElement]

Picked mine up from the library today and read the first chapter on the bus home. My interest was immediately peaked by the phonecall so hopefully i'll enjoy it.
That first line is brilliant. It just captivates.


Oh now I'm really going to be jealous. I could enhance those experiences too. I may have to alter my reading priorites.

Actually if the three stories are not interlinked, I would not have to read all three. :idea:
Virgil, if you can't read them all (they are kind of linked but the link is soft) at the very least try to read City of Glass. It is the best of the trilogy, in my opinion, and a well worthwhile read.

I find Auster's prose and approach in City of Glass very clipped and precise, as though it is a logical puzzle and each word, each step, has been chosen very specifically and very precisely. I also love that he is writing about someone masquerading as Paul Auster, the detective, and the Peter Stillman character 'my name is Peter Stillman. That is not my real name.'.

[Thespian1975]

Yes, it is unusual to have read "limp penis" and "turd" so early in a novel :P

It was the "expelling a turd" and the graphic toilet routine that shocked me. That said I found the scene with Peter Stillman (That's not my real name) was astounding. Pages of stream of conciousness speech that never lost it's interest.

So far up to Chapter 7 and I'm enjoying it.

[Tallon]

It depends what age you are, Tallon. Obviously you are not over forty. :p

Why, were there lot's of penis and turd novels before my time?:lol:
I've just read Portnoy's Complaint which is full of filth :p

I was also very impressed with the Stillman monologue, Auster reminds me of Haruki Murakami so far.

[lupe]

I read the trilogy a few years ago and then again "City of Glass" again last August. I really appreciated them both times and I'm sure people in the club will enjoy the reading.

Another idea to accompany the book is to watch "Smoke", which was based in Auster's script - another hymn to New York... A brilliant movie indeed.

The only book of Auster I wouldn't recommend is "Moon Palace".

I wish a good reading time to everyone...

[TheFifthElement]

.

The only book of Auster I wouldn't recommend is "Moon Palace".

Ditto that. Like crawling through treacle. I gave up.

[Alexei]

Another idea to accompany the book is to watch "Smoke", which was based in Auster's script - another hymn to New York... A brilliant movie indeed.

The only book of Auster I wouldn't recommend is "Moon Palace".


Great idea, Lupe. I loved the movie. It seems this reading is going to turn into some kind of big experiment. I can't wait to see how all this will end :p

I actually enjoyed "Moon Palace", but I've heard lots of bad comments on this one. I know it's rather unrealistic (that's the argument I hear the most), but I don't know why it is supposed to be, after all this is fiction. I can see most of the elements that make me like Auster's books. Maybe the most important difference is that the events aren't so closely related to the narrator as usually is.

I've read the trilogy and I will start rereading it tomorrow.

Nick, this is a good idea. I've been thinking of visiting these places while reading the book for the first time. I wish I could do it too :D They seem very important for the story, or at least I have that impression in the time, so it would be great if you can share the photos you've taken.

[bouquin]

I have just finished reading the first story. Why do you think the title is City of Glass?

[Paige19]

Only just started it, but I'm past the limp penis and the turd. I'd been wondering what narrative use Auster would make of the turd and, in truth, it is the perfect activity to convey that annoying feeling of being hurried by a ringing telephone. I do wish Quinn had washed his hands after pulling up his pants, however.

[Virgil]

i bought the book today at lunch tme. I will alter my current reading to join in!!! I hope people don't mind. ;) I'll start tonight.

[NickAdams]

I started Ghost today and will go back to City of Glass when I take the photos this Saturday. These are the notes I wrote when I finished City of Glass and what I will be looking into on Sat:

***SPOILERS***

Daniel Quinn/ William Wilson/ Max Work
Peter Stillman the elder/ Henry Dark
Peter Stillman the younger
Virginia Stillman
Mrs. Saavedra
Paul Auster
Siri Auster
Daniel Auster

Narrator & Cid Hamete Benengeli

Misc:
Girl reading book
Cook at diner
Hotel clerk

-Guilt (Auster & Quinn)
-The narrator, who has stated that he is including the facts, never confirms if what Auster told Quinn was true.
-Two red notebooks and a red yo-yo.
-Map out Quinn's route.
-Who fed Quinn in Stillman's empty room?
-Benengeli quartet & Auster quartet.


I have just finished reading the first story. Why do you think the title is City of Glass?

I thought it might refer to fragments or something with the potential to break (i.e. Humpty Dumpty).


i bought the book today at lunch tme. I will alter my current reading to join in!!! I hope people don't mind. ;) I'll start tonight.

:banana:Did you get the trilogy or just City of Glass?


the Peter Stillman character 'my name is Peter Stillman. That is not my real name.'.



I was also very impressed with the Stillman monologue ...

I found it to be quite unusual at first, but looking back it makes perfect sense. Peter Stillman the younger is the broken thing that no longer serves its practical function that Peter Stillman the elder spoke of and therefore the name Peter Stillman is obsolete. He is and he isn't Peter Stillman.


Great idea, Lupe
Nick, this is a good idea. I've been thinking of visiting these places while reading the book for the first time. I wish I could do it too :D They seem very important for the story, or at least I have that impression in the time, so it would be great if you can share the photos you've taken.

I'm only taking photos of the path Quinn and Stillman walked together, because the path Quinn walked alone is faaaaaaaaaaaar too long.:lol:
I plan on using GoogleEarth to map out Quinn's private wandering and hopefully I will discover letters, or maybe even a word, similar to what Quinn found while mapping out Stillman's route.

[TheFifthElement]

I have just finished reading the first story. Why do you think the title is City of Glass?

You know, I've been thinking about this.

I think the title works on three levels; firstly there is the physical - the book is set in New York which is a 'city of glass', tall glass skyscrapers, and it is certainly a book rooted in New York. Secondly I think the book is a reflection, Auster is holding up a mirror (a glass?) on himself and this is evident in the character Quinn, who shares much of Auster's biography: he is a writer, he writes mystery novels under a pseudonym, he lives in New York, he used to translate poetry, he used to be ambitious. Quinn is mistaken for Auster, albeit Paul Auster the detective as opposed to the writer, and later in the book Quinn meets Auster. Thirdly, and I think this is the underlying theme of the book, it is about identity. Auster, particularly in the first chapter, concentrates quite heavily on the question of identity or the 'self'. Proposing that our 'self' is a 'city of glass' we construct around ourselves, fragile and illusory. Auster explores this in the character of Quinn who is, effectively, nobody, as he says here:


As for Quinn, there is little that need detain us. Who he is, where he came from, and what he did are of no great importance.

and

On his best walks he was able to believe he was nowhere.

and

Quinn was no longer that part of him that could write books, and although in many ways Quinn continued to exist, he no longer existed for anyone but himself.

In a sense Quinn has become a fractured personality. He is Daniel Quinn, the nobody. He is William Wilson the detective story writer. He is Max Work the fictional detective in his book. He is Paul Auster the detective. He elucidates this in these passages:

in reference to Quinn's relationship with William Wilson:

William Wilson, after all, was an invention, and even though he had been born within himself, he now lead an independent life. Quinn treated him with deference, at times even admiration, but he never went so far as to believe that he and William Wilson were the same man.

and in reference to Quinn's relationship with Max Work:

Over the years, Work had become very close to Quinn. Whereas William Wilson remained an abstract figure for him, Work had increasingly come to life.

And he refers to Quinn as the 'dummy', Wilson as the 'ventriloquist' and Works as the 'animated voice that gave purpose to the enterprise'.

And again, I think there is a clue in this passage where Quinn ruminates on the meaning of the term 'private eye':

Not only was it the letter 'i', standing for 'investigator', it was the 'I' in upper case, the tiny life-bud buried in the body of the breathing self. At the same time, it was also the physical eye of the writer, the eye of the man who looks out from himself into the world and demands that the world reveals itself to him.

And I think you find similar themes in the character of Peter Stillman ('that is not my name') though I've not got to that part yet on my third read of this book!

I wondered if there was some meaning in the things Quinn reads and listens to? So far (I'm at the end of chapter 1) he has been reading Marco Polo, and The Sporting News and listened to Haydn's opera The Man on the Moon. Also, I'd be interested in your views on this sentence:


The question is the story itself, and whether or not it means something is not for the story to tell.

Any thoughts?

[bouquin]

Only just started it, but I'm past the limp penis and the turd. I'd been wondering what narrative use Auster would make of the turd and, in truth, it is the perfect activity to convey that annoying feeling of being hurried by a ringing telephone. I do wish Quinn had washed his hands after pulling up his pants, however.




I read that part with bated breath too (no pun intended), to find out next if Quinn was going to wash his hands or not! I understand that there are links and similarities with the 3 stories; I suppose that the toilet scene in City of Glass would correspond to Walt Whitman's chamber pot in Ghosts.

In chapter 4 of City of Glass there is an extensive description of situations similar to that experienced by Peter Stillman junior. I was quite surprised that the author did not mention Genie the feral child, a relatively more recent case and closer to home.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child) )

[Virgil]

I got the triology Nick.

Now has anyone mentioned that William Wilson was the central character of the only novel Edgar Allen Poe ever wrote? I have no idea what the significance is, and I have not read that work by Poe, but given this is a detective novel (and Poe started the whole cncept of detective fiction) and given that Poe's William Wilson is a story using a doppelganger.


"William Wilson" clearly explores the theme of the double. This second self haunts the protagonist and leads him to insanity and also represents his own insanity.[2] This division of the self is reinforced by the narrator's admission that "William Wilson" is actually a pseudonym. The name itself is an interesting choice: "son" of "will." In other words, William Wilson has willed himself into being along with the double which shares that name.[3]

Poe wrote the story very carefully and with subtlety. Sentences are balanced, with very few adjectives, and there is little concrete imagery beyond the description of Wilson's school. Pacing is purposely set as leisurely and measured using a formal style and longer sentences. Rather than creating a poetic effect or mood, as Poe recommends in "The Philosophy of Composition," Poe is creating a tale based on rationality and logic.[4]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilson_(short_story)

I have only read a chapter into Auster's novel, but there has to be a link to Poe here. The coincidences are too much.

[NickAdams]

I finished Ghost, but have no comments at the moment.


You know, I've been thinking about this.

I think the title works on three levels; firstly there is the physical - the book is set in New York which is a 'city of glass', tall glass skyscrapers, and it is certainly a book rooted in New York. Secondly I think the book is a reflection, Auster is holding up a mirror (a glass?) on himself and this is evident in the character Quinn, who shares much of Auster's biography: he is a writer, he writes mystery novels under a pseudonym, he lives in New York, he used to translate poetry, he used to be ambitious. Quinn is mistaken for Auster, albeit Paul Auster the detective as opposed to the writer, and later in the book Quinn meets Auster. Thirdly, and I think this is the underlying theme of the book, it is about identity. Auster, particularly in the first chapter, concentrates quite heavily on the question of identity or the 'self'. Proposing that our 'self' is a 'city of glass' we construct around ourselves, fragile and illusory. Auster explores this in the character of Quinn who is, effectively, nobody, as he says here:



and


and


In a sense Quinn has become a fractured personality. He is Daniel Quinn, the nobody. He is William Wilson the detective story writer. He is Max Work the fictional detective in his book. He is Paul Auster the detective. He elucidates this in these passages:

in reference to Quinn's relationship with William Wilson:


and in reference to Quinn's relationship with Max Work:


And he refers to Quinn as the 'dummy', Wilson as the 'ventriloquist' and Works as the 'animated voice that gave purpose to the enterprise'.

And again, I think there is a clue in this passage where Quinn ruminates on the meaning of the term 'private eye':


And I think you find similar themes in the character of Peter Stillman ('that is not my name') though I've not got to that part yet on my third read of this book!

I wondered if there was some meaning in the things Quinn reads and listens to? So far (I'm at the end of chapter 1) he has been reading Marco Polo, and The Sporting News and listened to Haydn's opera The Man on the Moon. Also, I'd be interested in your views on this sentence:



Any thoughts?

Very nice. I still don't understand why Quinn decided to live in the alley across from Stillman's building, rather than go to their apartment to speak to Virginia; I know he thought it was the universe trying to prevent him from dropping the case, but ... why?:confused:


I got the triology Nick.

Now has anyone mentioned that William Wilson was the central character of the only novel Edgar Allen Poe ever wrote? I have no idea what the significance is, and I have not read that work by Poe, but given this is a detective novel (and Poe started the whole cncept of detective fiction) and given that Poe's William Wilson is a story using a doppelganger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilson_(short_story)

I have only read a chapter into Auster's novel, but there has to be a link to Poe here. The coincidences are too much.

There's mention of both Pym and Nantucket. I just finished Ghost and will read The Locked Room, so I will definitely read William Wilson. Thanks for the info.:thumbs_up

[Tallon]

I finished City of Glass. I sort of thought i knew what was going on until he meets Auster and starts talking about Don Quixote, but from then on i was pretty much miffed :D The story was very interesting though and warrants investigation and repeated reads. I also thought it would be a good idea to map out Quinn's walks, there must be a reason why Auster mentions every road he goes down in meticulous detail.

[TheFifthElement]

I finished City of Glass. I sort of thought i knew what was going on until he meets Auster and starts talking about Don Quixote, but from then on i was pretty much miffed :D The story was very interesting though and warrants investigation and repeated reads. I also thought it would be a good idea to map out Quinn's walks, there must be a reason why Auster mentions every road he goes down in meticulous detail.

I haven't read Don Quixote all the way through, but The New York Trilogy made me intrigued, I felt I was missing something. I will read Don Quixote this year. Is there some link then? I wondered as I think the link in the final book The Locked Room is with Hawthorne, I think specifically Fanshaw, and as I haven't read Hawthorne either I felt I was missing something there too.

Note initials: Don Quixote / Daniel Quinn.

I don't think there's anything random in the names he's chosen.

Did anyone else notice things cropping up in threes in City of Glass?

[Paige19]

No, Fifth, I don't think there's anything random going on. Quite the opposite. I started this book knowing nothing about Auster, and am now realizing what a lot there is to know. His writing is heavily influenced by Lacanian psychoanalytic theory (Jacques Lacan), and while I know nothing about that at all, I'm sure it is the key to many questions about the work.

Check out his MySpace page, linked below, and scroll all the way down past the YouTube links to influences (at very bottom below list of works). Virgil, you'll see Poe listed, so your musings about that connection were no doubt correct.

I'm starting to think that any discussion of Auster we will have will only scratch the surface!

In the case of the last book (Map of Love) I would say there was less there than met the eye; here there is clearly a lot more.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=172494827

[Paige19]

PS: I haven't even finished this, but just ordered two more of Auster's books. Thanks for nominating him, whoever it was. I feel a reading project coming on...

[Paige19]

PPS: make of this what you will:

In short, Lacan's theory declares that we enter the world through words. We observe the world through our senses but the world we sense is structured (mediated) in our mind through language. Thus our subconscious is also structured as a language. This leaves us with a sense of anomaly. We can only perceive the world through language, but we have the feeling of a lack. The lack is the sense of a being outside of language. The world can only be constructed through language but it always leaves something uncovered, something that can not be told and be thought of, it can only be sensed. This can be seen as one of the central themes of Paul Auster's writing.

I'll have to think about this.

[Alexei]

WOW, you have great ideas :thumbs_up This discussion is getting better and better.

TheFifthElement I like your ideas on Quinn/Willson/Work trio, but I have a bit different theory. I agree the story is greatly related with the problem of self identification, but I think this is going even beyond the aforementioned trio. I think all the characters are actually various interpretations on Quinn, in some way they all are Quinn and Quinn is all of them. In different moments in the story he becomes or may be it is better to say he is strongly associated with everyone of them and this is a constant process. Actually, he is never simply Daniel Quinn. In the beginning he is also William Willson and Max Work and later he becomes also Paul Auster. We will see that the other Auster is another version of Quinn, since he is what the main character would have been if his wife and child weren't dead. Then we have the Petter Stilmans. This similarity comes up in the end of the story, when in the dark room Quinn becomes both Peter Stillman (there he treflects mainly on the things he heard from him, he actually starts thinking ih Stillman's manner) and Petter Stillman junior (the conditions in the dark room are the main similarity here. Still, as you said there is some similarity between them in the phrase 'that is not my name'. In the case of Quinn it is easy to interpret it, but when it comes to PSJ it's different; I think he still thinks in the manner and with the words that he was used to when he was in the dark room, so I suppose he has his name, given by himself in the language he had in the dark.) All these characters are some personalisation of certain stages of Quinn's personality changes.

There is something else which I find interesting and important - the theory on Don Quixote. I think it is something like a suggestion how this book it is supposed or at least could be read. When you think about it actually Paul Auster (I mean the author here not anyone of the Paul Austers in the story) is also trying to pass the book as something that isn't fiction. Well, not exactly at the manner Cervantes does, but still there is something like it. In this manner of thought the initials the characters share should be strongly related. I haven't thought it through, so I can't say what exactly this scheme will mean if we use it on "City of Glass", but I think there is some link between them. Any ideas?



In chapter 4 of City of Glass there is an extensive description of situations similar to that experienced by Peter Stillman junior. I was quite surprised that the author did not mention Genie the feral child, a relatively more recent case and closer to home.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child) )

Bouquin, I think that the issue in this case is slightly different. Although this child was treated in the same way, the reason for this isn't experiment of any kind. In the book on the other hand this horrible thing is an experiment on language. So, Auster didn't simply need examples of children grown up in similar conditions, but examples of similar experiments.

Paige19, thanks for all the additional info. I haven't seen it all, but I will try to do so :) Well, I don't promise it will be soon though, I have too much work to do lately. By the way from what I read in you short summery of Lacan's theory, I've read an interpretation of it in one of Iris Murdoch's books - "Under the Net". Are yo familiar with it? Maybe it will be interesting to make some comparison between the two, based on this theory.



p.s. Sorry for not having any quotes, but I don't have the English text, I read it in translation.

[TheFifthElement]

PPS: make of this what you will:

In short, Lacan's theory declares that we enter the world through words. We observe the world through our senses but the world we sense is structured (mediated) in our mind through language. Thus our subconscious is also structured as a language. This leaves us with a sense of anomaly. We can only perceive the world through language, but we have the feeling of a lack. The lack is the sense of a being outside of language. The world can only be constructed through language but it always leaves something uncovered, something that can not be told and be thought of, it can only be sensed. This can be seen as one of the central themes of Paul Auster's writing.

I'll have to think about this.
Yes, very interesting. I think that comes across in the book, the further you read into it.




I'm starting to think that any discussion of Auster we will have will only scratch the surface!
I second that! My only criticism of Auster is that he leaves me feeling badly educated :(

Back on the subject of things occurring in threes, unless I've missed any in City of Glass three dreams are mentioned, as follows:

Chapter 1

In his dream, which he later forgot, he found himself alone in a room, firing a pistol into a bare white wall.

Chapter 8

In his dream, which he later forgot, he found himself in the town dump of his childhood, sifting through a mountain of rubbish.

Chapter 11

In his dream, which he later forgot, he found himself walking down Broadway, holding Auster's son by the hand.

and I wondered what the purpose of this was.

And I also wondered if there was a blurring here between the narrator and Auster, here at the end of chapter 5:

And then, most important of all: to remember who I am. To remember who I am supposed to be. I do not think this is a game. On the other hand, nothing is clear. For example: who are you? And if you think you know, why do you keep lying about it? All I can say is this: listen to me. My name is Paul Auster. That is not my real name.

At this point, and I think it's the listen to me that does it, I get the feeling it is Auster speaking, not the character of the narrator of the book. I think it is an interesting passage.

And I'm looking forward to Nick's photos :D

[Paige19]

How about those dreams? I wondered about them. Not their content, which in itself is fodder aplenty for interpretation, but that they were recounted at all. Who is telling them to us? During the reading of the story, we believe that we are reading from a third-person-limited viewpoint. We only know what Quinn knows. But at the end, it is revealed that there is a narrator, and no matter what he gleaned from the notebooks or anything else, how would he know about the dreams if Quinn forgot them?

WARNING! SPOILER BELOW!

Also, has anyone else yet said how the experience Quinn has in the white room at the end is like a reversal of Peter Stillman's? Light becoming dark, less and less words. Finally, disappearance. Like being unborn. Or something.

[Virgil]

I'm thirty something pages in, and it's a fun read. :D

[jon1jt]

Is this a pop novel? Because if it is I definitely won't read it, never ever.

[bouquin]

PS: I haven't even finished this, but just ordered two more of Auster's books. Thanks for nominating him, whoever it was. I feel a reading project coming on...




Moi again :D the same one who brought you Ahdaf Soueif's The Map of Love! .... You're welcome!

In Ghosts : I think the name Green would have been more suitable to Blue for he seems rather callow and unsophisticated.

[Virgil]

Is this a pop novel? Because if it is I definitely won't read it, never ever.

It's definitely got literary merit Jon.


I do find some parts kind of absurd. For instance Quinn sits down to talk with Stillwell at around ten o'clock in the morning, and Stillwell has a non-stop (albeit hilarious) monologue, with Quinn not saying a single word, or either of them getting up to eat or relieve themselves, until it got dark. :lol: I'm mean that's funny, but it's kind of like a TV comedy skit. But I am enjoying this.

[TheFifthElement]

How about those dreams? I wondered about them. Not their content, which in itself is fodder aplenty for interpretation, but that they were recounted at all. Who is telling them to us? During the reading of the story, we believe that we are reading from a third-person-limited viewpoint. We only know what Quinn knows. But at the end, it is revealed that there is a narrator, and no matter what he gleaned from the notebooks or anything else, how would he know about the dreams if Quinn forgot them?

WARNING! SPOILER BELOW!

Also, has anyone else yet said how the experience Quinn has in the white room at the end is like a reversal of Peter Stillman's? Light becoming dark, less and less words. Finally, disappearance. Like being unborn. Or something.

Yes, there has to be a reason why they're worded in the exact same way. And they appear, seemingly, out of the blue.

I wondered if Quinn's experience in the room was a reference back to the Tower of Babel - the legend that if you entered the tower and remained there for 40 days you would forget everything you'd ever known. And I wondered about the passage of time here as well, and as Virgil mentioned:



I do find some parts kind of absurd. For instance Quinn sits down to talk with Stillwell at around ten o'clock in the morning, and Stillwell has a non-stop (albeit hilarious) monologue, with Quinn not saying a single word, or either of them getting up to eat or relieve themselves, until it got dark. :lol: I'm mean that's funny, but it's kind of like a TV comedy skit. But I am enjoying this.

because time does seem to move through the story in a rather bizarre way.

Stillman Virgil, Stillman ;)

[Virgil]

Eek, Stillman, you're right. :blush:

[Niamh]

I bought the book so i hope to join in the discussion soon!

[papayahed]

How about those dreams? I wondered about them. Not their content, which in itself is fodder aplenty for interpretation, but that they were recounted at all. Who is telling them to us? During the reading of the story, we believe that we are reading from a third-person-limited viewpoint. We only know what Quinn knows. But at the end, it is revealed that there is a narrator, and no matter what he gleaned from the notebooks or anything else, how would he know about the dreams if Quinn forgot them?



Exactly, how does the narrator know anything prior to Quinn writing in the notebook? or that Quinn "tended to feel out of place in his own skin". Unless Quinn wrote this in the notebook.

But then who is feeding Quinn? Is someone feeding Quinn? Has Quinn gone into his own world like the homeless people he desribes? Quinn has never known who he really is, we've already mentioned William Wilson and Max Work but he makes mention early on of friends giving him clothes when he was just starting out and what about claiming to be Auster? (And how twisted (yet cool) is it to have a character in the book by the same name as the author? )

Is this a continuation of Stillman Sr's experiment? Could the Stillmans have made up the whole thing to experiment with Quinn? Peter started out with no contact with others and is brought into society the reverse is true of Quinn he was brought with normal human contact but slowly reverts into himself.

[Paige19]

You know, I am finding that there quite a lot of deconstruction regarding this book on the internet, and I'm wading through some of it. Normally, I wouldn't. But this story fascinated me, and I like the fact that it can be read just as it is - as a really weird and convoluted quasi-detective story - or you can jump into all the deconstruction and think about all that.

As for our speculations about who the real author of the story is, papayahead, my inclination at this point is to say that the narrator who announces himself at the very end is the author, and that he knows everything he knows because he made up the story, plain and simple, and his revealing himself simply acts as one more layer to the already complex layering of characters in it.

[Virgil]

I will say I am enjoying the New York elements to the novel. Everything is real as far as I can tell, the newspaper, the luncheontte type of eateries, the egg creams (do people outside of New York even know what an egg cream is?) the baseball players and events. I swear I can remember that game where Dave Kingman made that error to lose that Mets game, but Kingman probably made lots of errors to lose games. :lol: Judging by the ballplayers mentioned, I think the novel is set in the early 1980's, possibly 1982. Well, I just loved this paragraph, enough for me to take the time to quote it.


New York was an inexhaustible space, a labyrinth of endless steps, and no matter how far he walked, no matter how well he came to know its neighborhoods and streets, it always left him with the feeling of being lost. Lost, not only in the city, but within himself as well. Each time he took a walk, he felt as though he were leaving himself behind, and by giving himself up to the movements of the streets, by reducing himself to a seeing eye, he was able to escape the obligation to think, and this, more than anything else, brought him a measure of peace, a salutary emptiness within. The world was outside him, around him, before him, and the speed with which it kept changing made it impossible for him to dwell on any one thing for very long. Motion was of the essence, the act of putting one foot in front of the other and allowing himself to follow the drift of his own body. By wandering aimlessly, all places became equal, and it no longer mattered where he was. On his best walks, he was able to feel that he was nowhere. And this, finally, was all he ever asked of things: to be nowhere. New York was the nowhere he had built around himself, and he realized that he had no intention of ever leaving it again.

Besides capturing that New York feeling of a labyrinth, one I've known quite well, I think this paragraph resonates with the themes that carry the novel forward. Of course i've only read a quarter of the way through at this point, but I do think that's a significant section.

[Alexei]

As I said in my previous post, in my opinion the Don Quixote's authorship problem could be a hint how to solve this one. What if the person who actually find the manuscript is Quinn himself? I thought so for a while, but I remembered that if it was so, Auster would have recognised him when they met for the first time. Also, this is too obvious. Judging by Don Quixote's story I think maybe we shouldn't take it so seriously. For one think how comes that the check Virginia Stillman gave Quinn is a bad one, or that someone called Paul Auster the private eye from a detective agency that actually does not exist? Actully, from the beginning of the story the reader knows something is wrong and that can be simply explained if we consider this mistakes for something made with a certain reason.
This explanation of course is highly unsatisfying, but I can't stop these things are connected in some way and the Don Quixote problem is important for the story.

[bouquin]

I finished Ghost, but have no comments at the moment.



Very nice. I still don't understand why Quinn decided to live in the alley across from Stillman's building, rather than go to their apartment to speak to Virginia; I know he thought it was the universe trying to prevent him from dropping the case, but ... why?:confused:








City of Glass / why Quinn decided to live in the alley :

I think Quinn simply had a nervous breakdown, he was already pretty much depressed and alienated to start with. And then he wasn't really a detective and yet he decided to embark on an obscure venture that was too dangerous and complicated for his fragile state of mind. I think he really lost it after his encounter with Paul Auster and his family; that was too much for him. It reminded him of what he had lost. Soon afterwards he started interpreting his situation in a rather odd way, that it was Fate that the phone was always busy at Virginia Stillman's appartment (see end of Chapter 11).

[Paige19]

I agree with bouquin. This is a story of a man who, through the course of the story's action, we watch completely lose an identity that wasn't all that stable to begin with. By the end, he is literally nonexistent.

As for the author of the story, I still think there's no trick to it. (I agree that the Don Quixote reference must be meaningful, but not sure what that meaning is.) I think the story is written by an omniscient narrator, who does not reveal himself until the end. Until that point, we think we are reading a third person limited narrative, but we aren't.

[Thespian1975]

On to Ghosts. The Theme of watching, identity and words arise again. Naming everyone after colours is a good touch.

It's not as good as City of Glass but very interesting.

Has anyone read Walden by Thoreau? Are there themes linking it to Ghosts?

[Paige19]

I am going to do some research on this Thoreau question. I do at this point know that one of the other influences in Auster is Emersonian transcendentalism. So I'll start there.

[bouquin]

Exactly, how does the narrator know anything prior to Quinn writing in the notebook? or that Quinn "tended to feel out of place in his own skin". Unless Quinn wrote this in the notebook.

But then who is feeding Quinn? Is someone feeding Quinn? Has Quinn gone into his own world like the homeless people he desribes? Quinn has never known who he really is, we've already mentioned William Wilson and Max Work but he makes mention early on of friends giving him clothes when he was just starting out and what about claiming to be Auster? (And how twisted (yet cool) is it to have a character in the book by the same name as the author? )

Is this a continuation of Stillman Sr's experiment? Could the Stillmans have made up the whole thing to experiment with Quinn? Peter started out with no contact with others and is brought into society the reverse is true of Quinn he was brought with normal human contact but slowly reverts into himself.




We can perhaps safely presume that the things that the narrator tells us was all written down by Quinn in his red notebook. Initially, Quinn limited his entries to his impressions of the Stillmans and his detective work. But at some point, as he started losing control, there was a shift and he began writing about things more personal. So it is highly likely that he eventually got around to telling his own story right from the beginning. Where I am more doubtful is with regards Quinn's reliability. He was hurtling into a serious mental breakdown so who knows, his impressions and recordings could be more the product of his own deranged imagination (including the food that was mysteriously provided for him at the Stillman appartment) rather than factual.

[TheFifthElement]

Actually, the whole book feels like an exploration in American literature, or perhaps a literature degree. Some big names in there: Poe, Whitman, Thoreau, Hawthorne.

Virgil, I don't know what egg creams are - can you enlighten me?


Ooh, sorry I looked it up. Did you know the egg cream was invented by Louis Auster? Freaky :p

[Paige19]

Based on my research, the importance of Thoreau is that both Blue and Black are, like Thoreau during his Walden experiment, in a state of self-exile. Black chooses this, and then forces Blue to do the same by making him shadow Black's every move. Walden is an experiment in self-reliance outside of society. Both men are basically locked in a room, alone.

Apparently, Auster himself has said of the story that "Ghosts" is dominated by "the spirit of Thoreau... Walden Pond in the heart of the city."

And oh, I have not had an egg cream in probably forty-odd years! My Grandmother used to make them for me all the time. My grandparents always had a seltzer dispenser thing in the fridge. I think it had a black top.

How about Charlotte Russe? Another childhood memory.

[Virgil]

Virgil[/B], I don't know what egg creams are - can you enlighten me?


Ooh, sorry I looked it up. Did you know the egg cream was invented by Louis Auster? Freaky :p

Oh my God, that is no coincidence. Auster, the author, had to know that an Auster invented the egg cream.


An egg cream is a classic beverage consisting of chocolate syrup, milk, and seltzer (soda water), probably dating from the late 19th century, and is especially associated with Brooklyn, home of its alleged inventor, candy store owner Louis Auster.[1][2] [3]It contains neither eggs nor cream. Some enthusiasts insist that an egg cream must be made with Fox's U-Bet, a chocolate syrup manufactured by H. Fox & Company[citation needed].

The egg cream is almost exclusively a fountain drink; although there have been several attempts to bottle it, none has been wholly successful, as its fresh taste and characteristic head requires mixing of the ingredients just before drinking. The drink can be compared to a traditional ice cream soda, though it contains no ice cream.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_cream

This is a very New York thing. :) Actually I'm afraid it's disappearing. Or I haven't seen any around any longer. Could be me. I haven't had one in decades.

[Virgil]

Oh I had to laugh when he's on the subway and a deaf mute panhandles. I remember those guys on the subway all the time. It was a frequent occurence that a deaf mute would hand out the whole subway car some item and then coe around and ask for a donation or collect them back. I don't remember pens with flags like in the book. I remember something that was a handy item that had deaf sign language signals on it.

It just occurred to me that if this novel is set in the early 1980's, then that was when I did the most commuting in my life through New York. That was when I was a college student and commutted an hour up from Brooklyn to Harlem to school, not too far actually from Quinn's apartment.

I haven't seen NickAdams around lately. Nick, are those deaf mutes still panhandling on the subway?

[Cat_Brenners]

I will read this when I can get around to it. I am sooo busy writing and reading some other things right now to read this. Will comment later on it too.
Cat

[TheFifthElement]

TheFifthElement I like your ideas on Quinn/Willson/Work trio, but I have a bit different theory. I agree the story is greatly related with the problem of self identification, but I think this is going even beyond the aforementioned trio. I think all the characters are actually various interpretations on Quinn, in some way they all are Quinn and Quinn is all of them. In different moments in the story he becomes or may be it is better to say he is strongly associated with everyone of them and this is a constant process. Actually, he is never simply Daniel Quinn. In the beginning he is also William Willson and Max Work and later he becomes also Paul Auster. We will see that the other Auster is another version of Quinn, since he is what the main character would have been if his wife and child weren't dead. Then we have the Petter Stilmans. This similarity comes up in the end of the story, when in the dark room Quinn becomes both Peter Stillman (there he treflects mainly on the things he heard from him, he actually starts thinking ih Stillman's manner) and Petter Stillman junior (the conditions in the dark room are the main similarity here. Still, as you said there is some similarity between them in the phrase 'that is not my name'. In the case of Quinn it is easy to interpret it, but when it comes to PSJ it's different; I think he still thinks in the manner and with the words that he was used to when he was in the dark room, so I suppose he has his name, given by himself in the language he had in the dark.) All these characters are some personalisation of certain stages of Quinn's personality changes.

There is something else which I find interesting and important - the theory on Don Quixote. I think it is something like a suggestion how this book it is supposed or at least could be read. When you think about it actually Paul Auster (I mean the author here not anyone of the Paul Austers in the story) is also trying to pass the book as something that isn't fiction. Well, not exactly at the manner Cervantes does, but still there is something like it. In this manner of thought the initials the characters share should be strongly related. I haven't thought it through, so I can't say what exactly this scheme will mean if we use it on "City of Glass", but I think there is some link between them. Any ideas?

Hi Alexei, for some reason I missed these comments earlier.

Yes! I like your thinking. Have you given any thought to the purpose of the second Peter Stillman snr? I wondered if that was a red herring or a point to elucidate the point you've made above.

I finished City of Glass this morning. I think there's a lot of 'telling' in the Auster chapter, particularly with reference to Don Quixote and the link between these two books. Specifically these passages:


'And yet he goes on to say,' Quinn added, 'that Cid Hamete Benegeli's is the only true version of Don Quixote's story. All the other versions are frauds, written by imposters. He makes a great point of insisting that everything in the book really happened.'
'Exactly. Because the book after all is an attack on the dangers of the make-believe. He couldn't very well offer a work of the imagination to do that could he? He had to claim that it was real.'
'Still, I've always suspected that Cervantes devoured those old romances. You can't hate something so violently unless a part of you also loves it. In some sense, Don Quixote was just a stand-in for himself.'
Note that it was said in the beginning that Quinn read stacks of detective novels.
And this passage too:

'That's the most interesting part of all. In my opinion, Don Quixote was conducting an experiment. He wanted to test the gullibility of his fellow men. Would it be possible to stand up before the world and with the utmost conviction spew out lies and nonsense? To say that windmills were knights, that a barber's basin was a helmet, that puppets were real people? Would it be possible to persuade others to agree with what he said, even though they did not believe him? In other words, to what extent would people tolerate blasphemies if they gave them amusement? The answer is obvious isn't it? To any extent. For the proof is that we still read the book. It remains highly amusing to us. Ans that's finally all anyone wants out of a book - to be amused.'

And then you find in City of Glass that the 'narrator' goes to great pains to present this as a true account. Then I wonder, if the whole question Auster (the character) raises over the authorship of Don Quixote is, in truth, a question over the authorship of City of Glass. Is Daniel Quinn, Don Quixote? From what I have read of Don Quixote, that is not his real name, he adopts the name Quixote when his delusions prompt him to take on the role of knight errant. So Daniel Quinn is Don Quixote, who has read so many detective fiction novels that he deludes himself into thinking he can be the real thing. He adopts the name Paul Auster for the role, and goes out to have a series of bizarre, absurd adventures that suspend belief. A man who so wholly deludes himself that he gives up his entire life to become a fiction character in a novel?

I also noticed that the original lead to the Paul Auster detective agency came from the retired policeman husband of the nurse, Mrs Saavedra. His name is Michael, the Spanish version of which would be Miguel. Who is the author of Don Quixote: Miguel De Cervantes Saavedra!

[TheFifthElement]

Ack! I have library issues and have to break off reading TNYT to read As I Lay Dying before it's due back. Will pick up in a few days, hopefully. Currently part way through Ghosts - I wondered about the stories he mentions: the murdered child, the skiing man who discovers his own father, the engineer who constructed the Brooklyn Bridge. Is there a point to these stories?

[bouquin]

And then you find in City of Glass that the 'narrator' goes to great pains to present this as a true account. Then I wonder, if the whole question Auster (the character) raises over the authorship of Don Quixote is, in truth, a question over the authorship of City of Glass. Is Daniel Quinn, Don Quixote? From what I have read of Don Quixote, that is not his real name, he adopts the name Quixote when his delusions prompt him to take on the role of knight errant. So Daniel Quinn is Don Quixote, who has read so many detective fiction novels that he deludes himself into thinking he can be the real thing. He adopts the name Paul Auster for the role, and goes out to have a series of bizarre, absurd adventures that suspend belief. A man who so wholly deludes himself that he gives up his entire life to become a fiction character in a novel?

I also noticed that the original lead to the Paul Auster detective agency came from the retired policeman husband of the nurse, Mrs Saavedra. His name is Michael, the Spanish version of which would be Miguel. Who is the author of Don Quixote: Miguel De Cervantes Saavedra!



City of Glass : the narrator

Surely the narrator himself realizes that Quinn's story is so strange that it could come across as implausible, far-fetched -- thus the need for him now and again to underline its veracity and reliability. I personally do not attach much importance to the identity of the narrator. What surprised me though was that he should turn up suddenly in the first person at the last page. I think it was clever of Paul Auster (the author) to have found roles for himself and his family in his own work and to use names to link the characters to one another, like Daniel Quinn - Daniel Auster, Peter Stillman Sr. - Jr. -Peter Quinn, Michael Saavedra - Miguel Cervantes, etc. It makes me think of those mirrors that reflect an image on and on, further and further - probably one explanation for the story's title.

[NickAdams]

Fanshawe has returned!:D

I want to avoid giving too much away, but this is a book I will be reading again. I will put the book aside for now and read Poe, Thoreau, Whitman, Melville, the others mentioned and finish Don Quijote.

The Locked Room:
Does anybody else see a connection between the work of Fanshawe and Joyce, in terms of stylistic progression?

I will post the photos once I upload them.;)

Spoiler!!!

This reminds me of Mulholland Drive, I know it was published before, but I think the approach needed to interpret it is similar. The similarity between the red notebook and blue box is interesting.



Actually if the three stories are not interlinked, I would not have to read all three. :idea:

I think all three must be read for complete understanding.





I haven't seen NickAdams around lately. Nick, are those deaf mutes still panhandling on the subway?

I haven't come across a panhandling deaf mute in over a year, but other classes of panhandlers remain.;)

[bouquin]

Fanshawe has returned!:D

I want to avoid giving too much away, but this is a book I will be reading again. I will put the book aside for now and read Poe, Thoreau, Whitman, Melville, the others mentioned and finish Don Quijote.

The Locked Room:
Does anybody else see a connection between the work of Fanshawe and Joyce, in terms of stylistic progression?

I will post the photos once I upload them.;)

Spoiler!!!

This reminds me of Mulholland Drive, I know it was published before, but I think the approach needed to interpret it is similar. The similarity between the red notebook and blue box is interesting.









The surrealism, the absurdity of it all, the loneliness and self-doubts of the principal characters, the wandering in the streets and the hiding somehow remind me of Notes from the Underground and Gogol's The Nose and The Coat.

[Amethyst2010]

I just finished City of Glass. I am surprised that I actually like the story because of its absurdity and strangeness.
Men are sociable creatures, even if some prefer solitude and being alone more than others. Perhaps we don't recognise the madness in ourselves, so having someone around who will point out whether our obsession has become craziness, could stop a person from going completely insane or schizophrenic.
All the discussions on names and how they are related are very interesting. Does Virginia in Virginia Stillman mean anything ?

[TheFifthElement]

I'm back in after the quickest reading of As I Lay Dying in living history! OK, probably not :D


City of Glass : the narrator

Surely the narrator himself realizes that Quinn's story is so strange that it could come across as implausible, far-fetched -- thus the need for him now and again to underline its veracity and reliability. I personally do not attach much importance to the identity of the narrator. What surprised me though was that he should turn up suddenly in the first person at the last page. I think it was clever of Paul Auster (the author) to have found roles for himself and his family in his own work and to use names to link the characters to one another, like Daniel Quinn - Daniel Auster, Peter Stillman Sr. - Jr. -Peter Quinn, Michael Saavedra - Miguel Cervantes, etc. It makes me think of those mirrors that reflect an image on and on, further and further - probably one explanation for the story's title.

I think the same can be said of Don Quixote, certainly from what I have read.

I agree, the name links seem very calculated.


Fanshawe has returned!:D

I want to avoid giving too much away, but this is a book I will be reading again. I will put the book aside for now and read Poe, Thoreau, Whitman, Melville, the others mentioned and finish Don Quijote.

The Locked Room:
Does anybody else see a connection between the work of Fanshawe and Joyce, in terms of stylistic progression?

I will post the photos once I upload them.;)

Spoiler!!!

This reminds me of Mulholland Drive, I know it was published before, but I think the approach needed to interpret it is similar. The similarity between the red notebook and blue box is interesting.

I came out of my first reading of this book wanting to do exactly as you've mentioned! I'm still resolved to read Don Quixote all the way through ( I started but didn't finish!) and I have Walden to read and a Hawthorne collection as well.

I never understood Mulholland Drive! Please explain it to me Nick :D

[bouquin]

Ack! I have library issues and have to break off reading TNYT to read As I Lay Dying before it's due back. Will pick up in a few days, hopefully. Currently part way through Ghosts - I wondered about the stories he mentions: the murdered child, the skiing man who discovers his own father, the engineer who constructed the Brooklyn Bridge. Is there a point to these stories?





Ghosts : the side stories/anecdotes

In City of Glass we read that in a good mystery story there is nothing wasted, no sentence, no word that is not significant... Since everything seen or said, even the slightest, most trivial thing, can bear a connection to the outcome of the story, nothing must be overlooked. Everything becomes essence ...

Unless I'm missing something the side anecdotes seem not to bear any importance to the main story itself. Perhaps what the author wants to say is that Ghosts and the 2 other novellas are not your usual, run-of-the mill detective stories?

[NickAdams]

I came out of my first reading of this book wanting to do exactly as you've mentioned! I'm still resolved to read Don Quixote all the way through ( I started but didn't finish!) and I have Walden to read and a Hawthorne collection as well.

I never understood Mulholland Drive! Please explain it to me Nick :D

I need to finish Quijote too; I stopped reading after the first book, but I think I will start from the beginning because I don't remember much.

In the last third of the film, after the camera goes into the blue box, we see a beaten down Betty who is actually Diane. I believe the last third to be reality and the key to the film. Diane is the central character and there isn't a scene without her during the last third, which is not true for the rest of the film. The first two thirds seems to be a hopeful fantasy where Diane is talented and the world loves her, including her ex-lover. The Justin Theroux character who seduces Diane lover finds his wife an adulteress in Diane's dream and is tormented by executives (which Diane finds as pleasing justice).

I think the same thing is true for the Trilogy; not that it's a dream, but where the "real story begins" is the material used for the first two books. Daniel Quinn the detective is recasted as a detective writer who gets drawn into that world. The Stillman that beats him becomes both Stillman the younger and older. The contents Fanshawe's confusing red notebook becomes the the material for Stillman's language. Then there's Dark. There is a parallel between the final meeting of Blue and White and the final meeting with Fanshawe. I think theme, above all else, is what is relevant. I don't think the book defies interpretation, but comprehension is better felt than explained.

The effect, to me, is what Pound said about poetry, "... language charged with mean," these are characters charged with meaning and although there are numerous external allusions, on the second read we see that the books have morphed into self-reference. A very interesting book.

[bouquin]

On to Ghosts. The Theme of watching, identity and words arise again. Naming everyone after colours is a good touch.

It's not as good as City of Glass but very interesting.

Has anyone read Walden by Thoreau? Are there themes linking it to Ghosts?






Ghosts vs. City of Glass

The plot of Ghosts is not as intricate as City of Glass and I found the story less chilling - perhaps because of the greater chance of a positive ending as far as the principal character Blue is concerned.

What differences do you find among Quinn, Blue and Fanshawe's boyhood friend?

[Paige19]

I think theme, above all else, is what is relevant. I don't think the book defies interpretation, but comprehension is better felt than explained.


I completely agree with Nick. My own supplementary reading has not been of sources quoted within the novellas themselves, but of contemporary deconstruction of the book. Interpretations abound, but the themes of self and other/ search for and loss of identity seem to be a common thread.

But had I read nothing about it at all - which is how most of the public no doubt read it, after all - I still would have really liked this book.

Thespian, as for the linkage between "Ghosts" and Walden: as I said in my earlier post Auster himself has said of the story that "Ghosts" is dominated by "the spirit of Thoreau... Walden Pond in the heart of the city."

[Alexei]

Fanshawe has returned!:D

I want to avoid giving too much away, but this is a book I will be reading again. I will put the book aside for now and read Poe, Thoreau, Whitman, Melville, the others mentioned and finish Don Quijote.

The Locked Room:
Does anybody else see a connection between the work of Fanshawe and Joyce, in terms of stylistic progression?

I will post the photos once I upload them.;)

Spoiler!!!

This reminds me of Mulholland Drive, I know it was published before, but I think the approach needed to interpret it is similar. The similarity between the red notebook and blue box is interesting.


Yes, I want to do the same. When I finished the trilogy the first time I read it I started reading Thoreau, now I am starting with Withman (well, I wanted to read his poems since I read Cunningham's "Specimen Days", so this reading isn't only Auster inspired :D). Later I plan to move on Hawthorne and Poe, he talks about them in other of his books, too.

I wanted to watch MD for a long time, so this seems a good reason to do it. It will take me some time to do it since I am really busy now, but I'll see it and I'll tell you what I think, ok? :)

bouquin, I'll check your associations, too. Unfortunately, I don't have the time for reading Dostoevsky right now, but I can handle Gogol quite easily.

TheFifthElement, I know you mentioned the title of the Hawthorne's work they were talking about in "Ghosts", but I can't find the post now. Can you tell me once again, please :blush: I really want to read it, it's a good excuse to read some more Hawthorne :D



Unless I'm missing something the side anecdotes seem not to bear any importance to the main story itself. Perhaps what the author wants to say is that Ghosts and the 2 other novellas are not your usual, run-of-the mill detective stories?

Actually I think they have. They don't contribute to the plot line directly, but they seem kind of important for the meaning of the whole thing. I don't know if you remember, but when the disguised as a bagger Blue is having conversation with Black, they exchange a few words about the authors and finally they say that the writters are the ghosts that hunt them. I think this isn't relevant only when it comes to the authors and these stories are the stories of the New York ghosts.


Thespian, as for the linkage between "Ghosts" and Walden: as I said in my earlier post Auster himself has said of the story that "Ghosts" is dominated by "the spirit of Thoreau... Walden Pond in the heart of the city."

I agree with this. I don't think there are some direct references, but the atmosphere is similar. Still Black is living in some voluntary isolation, too. I think in some way Blue is the one who writes Black's Walden.

[Paige19]

Alexei, I agree with you. It is not a matter of literary references, but of enforced isolation from society that creates the Walden parallel. How clever of Auster to portray this process of ever-increasing detachment as happening within the most "civilized" of settings - a huge city.

But I think it is Black who forces Blue into this situation. I think the story is about Blue's "Walden" experience, an experience engineered by Black.

[Virgil]

I'm afraid my reading has slowed down. Not because of the book, the book is very engaing. I will have to catch up and then look through these posts.

[Alexei]

Alexei, I agree with you. It is not a matter of literary references, but of enforced isolation from society that creates the Walden parallel. How clever of Auster to portray this process of ever-increasing detachment as happening within the most "civilized" of settings - a huge city.

Yes, this contrast of environment is definitely good idea. But I wonder if this doesn't somehow change the end of the experience. Being a isolated in the city and in the woods makes the whole thing totally different. Both times we have it's an act of free will, but while the guy living in the woods becomes a hermit of a kind (this means the isolation isn't an end itself, but a mean for getting to the end chosen), the isolation in the city, meaning amongst lots of other people makes it an end, it is isolation for the sake of it, or at least this is the most common case. On the other hand the Christianity has actually come up with such thing as city hermits, but it is a rather obscure medieval phenomenon and I doubt Auster consider it while writing the story.


But I think it is Black who forces Blue into this situation. I think the story is about Blue's "Walden" experience, an experience engineered by Black.

That's an interesting theory, actually a brilliant one :D I will consider it carefully, because "Walden" experience (I like the sound of that :D) being forced on someone seems a bit problematic to me :lol:


I'm afraid my reading has slowed down. Not because of the book, the book is very engaing. I will have to catch up and then look through these posts.

Don't worry, Virgil, take your time. I am sure we are going to take as long as we can to discuss this one. It's like some abyss of interlinked hidden meanings. So there's plenty of time to catch up later. From now on I will signify if there is some spoilers in my posts. I am sorry if you've stumbled on some, I usually forget to make some sign about spoilers ahead.

[NickAdams]

The narrator/author publishes a The Locked room, along with the other two stories, which includes infidelity and him keeping Fanshawe's letter a secret; how does his wife react?!



What differences do you find among Quinn, Blue and Fanshawe's boyhood friend?

I'll have to think about that ...



But had I read nothing about it at all - which is how most of the public no doubt read it, after all - I still would have really liked this book.
I would have too. Having to read the synopsis of each nominee is the only thing I dislike about voting. I would like to read a book with out knowing anything about it, but I'm too picky to allow it.


Yes, I want to do the same. When I finished the trilogy the first time I read it I started reading Thoreau, now I am starting with Withman (well, I wanted to read his poems since I read Cunningham's "Specimen Days", so this reading isn't only Auster inspired :D). Later I plan to move on Hawthorne and Poe, he talks about them in other of his books, too.

Whitman has been on my shelf for some time and this will be the year I read him. I love the chamber pot.

[TheFifthElement]

TheFifthElement, I know you mentioned the title of the Hawthorne's work they were talking about in "Ghosts", but I can't find the post now. Can you tell me once again, please :blush: I really want to read it, it's a good excuse to read some more Hawthorne :D


I'm not sure if it's the work referenced in Ghosts, but Nathaniel Hawthorne's first novel was called Fanshawe aka the elusive character in The Locked Room. Interesting story about this on Wiki:


Fanshawe is a novel written by American author Nathaniel Hawthorne. It was his first published work, which he published anonymously in 1828.

Fanshawe was based on Hawthorne's experiences as an undergraduate at Bowdoin College in the early 1820s. He had written successful short stories before, but this was his first attempt at creating a novel. Hawthorne published the romance himself, and it was largely unnoticed. After its commercial failure, he burned the unsold copies: "Later all the copies that could be obtained were destroyed. A dozen years after his death a copy was found and the tale reissued by James R. Osgood & co." (quote cf. N.E. Brown, Bibl. of Nathaniel Hawthorne, Boston and New York, 1905) The novel was so rare and Hawthorne was so secretive about his early attempt at a novel that after his death his wife Sophia insisted her husband had never written a novel with that title, despite being shown a copy.

So, Hawthorne's wife was called Sophia!

Fanshawe is available on Lit-net here:http://www.online-literature.com/hawthorne/fanshawe/

I have managed to track down the story referenced in Ghosts (thank you Google!). Called Wakefield, and you can read it here: http://www.online-literature.com/hawthorne/156/


Alexei, I agree with you. It is not a matter of literary references, but of enforced isolation from society that creates the Walden parallel. How clever of Auster to portray this process of ever-increasing detachment as happening within the most "civilized" of settings - a huge city.

But I think it is Black who forces Blue into this situation. I think the story is about Blue's "Walden" experience, an experience engineered by Black.

Yes, I agree with that.

[NickAdams]

The Locked-Room genre is a sub-genre of Mystery and we all know who wrote one of the most well known ones ... Poe.



I
Fanshawe is available on Lit-net here:http://www.online-literature.com/hawthorne/fanshawe/

I have managed to track down the story referenced in Ghosts (thank you Google!). Called Wakefield, and you can read it here: http://www.online-literature.com/hawthorne/156/



The New York Trilogy is a deceptive little bugger. There are clearly 308 pages between the covers and yet it goes on: William Wilson, Don Quijote, Walden and now Wakefield and Fanshawe.:p

[bouquin]

Alexei, I agree with you. It is not a matter of literary references, but of enforced isolation from society that creates the Walden parallel. How clever of Auster to portray this process of ever-increasing detachment as happening within the most "civilized" of settings - a huge city.

But I think it is Black who forces Blue into this situation. I think the story is about Blue's "Walden" experience, an experience engineered by Black.






I agree with your observation on the detachment-big city paradox. As it says on chapter 1 of City of Glass:
New York was an inexhaustible space, a labyrinth of endless steps, and no matter how far he walked, no matter how well he came to know its neighborhoods and streets, it always left him with the feeling of being lost. Lost, not only in the city, but within himself as well. Each time he took a walk, he felt as though he were leaving himself behind ... By wandering aimlessly, all places became equal and it no longer mattered where he was. On his best walks, he was able to feel that he was nowhere... New York was the nowhere he had built around himself ...

I also tend to concur with the idea that it is Black who sets-up Blue to spy on him, that Black is conducting some sort of experiment with Blue as his subject.

[NickAdams]

I agree with your observation on the detachment-big city paradox. As it says on chapter 1 of City of Glass:
New York was an inexhaustible space, a labyrinth of endless steps, and no matter how far he walked, no matter how well he came to know its neighborhoods and streets, it always left him with the feeling of being lost. Lost, not only in the city, but within himself as well. Each time he took a walk, he felt as though he were leaving himself behind ... By wandering aimlessly, all places became equal and it no longer mattered where he was. On his best walks, he was able to feel that he was nowhere... New York was the nowhere he had built around himself ...

I also tend to concur with the idea that it is Black who sets-up Blue to spy on him, that Black is conducting some sort of experiment with Blue as his subject.


Black is definitely White. Auster gives us a clue when Black orders a black&white. It says in there somewhere that Black hires Blue so that he, Black, can have purpose.

[Alexei]

The narrator/author publishes a The Locked room, along with the other two stories, which includes infidelity and him keeping Fanshawe's letter a secret; how does his wife react?!

That's quite interesting indeed. But this isn't the only strange thing we've seen when it comes to the problem with authorship. These mysteries turned out rather difficult to solve and I start to think they are supposed to be against all logic. If this is the case I think they are more or less irrelevant to the more important problems posited by the stories.


Whitman has been on my shelf for some time and this will be the year I read him. I love the chamber pot.

Hahah, Yes, it sure caught my attention. I bought "Leaves of Grass" on Saturday and I've started reading it, but I have to admit I've just passed the introduction :blush:

TheFifthElement, thank you for the info and for the links. It's very nice of you digging all this information. I owe you a favour ;) I think I will postpone the reading of "Fanshawe" for a while, bur I will try to read "Wakefield" till the end of the week. Same goes for "William Wilson". At least they are short, but this pile of additional reading gets bigger and bigger every day :D I don't think I can keep up :(



The New York Trilogy is a deceptive little bugger. There are clearly 308 pages between the covers and yet it goes on: William Wilson, Don Quijote, Walden and now Wakefield and Fanshawe.:p

Tell me about it :D:p At least I've read Don Quixote. Still there are some additional reading in this direction too. I am trying to get to an essay on it written by José Ortega y Gasset for ages. I've heard his interpretation is quite interesting and more or less out of the box. Probably it's irrelevant for this discussion but at least it will bring me back to the atmosphere of the book. By the way, if we start thinking for Don Quixote in the way suggested by the fictional Auster, doesn't Don Quixote remind you of Hamlet? This whole madness and testing the others thing?

[Virgil]

I finished The City of Glass last night and I'll have to go up the thread and look over comments. I really enjoyed it, but I'm not sure what to think of the ending. Those last two chapters seem to come from nowhere. Do they fit? I need to ponder this a little. :D

[NickAdams]

That's quite interesting indeed. But this isn't the only strange thing we've seen when it comes to the problem with authorship. These mysteries turned out rather difficult to solve and I start to think they are supposed to be against all logic. If this is the case I think they are more or less irrelevant to the more important problems posited by the stories.


Yes, but I have to assume she leaves him, because the narrator hints at a negative outcome, which I don't believe refers to the his incounter with Fanshawe.



Tell me about it :D:p At least I've read Don Quixote. Still there are some additional reading in this direction too. I am trying to get to an essay on it written by José Ortega y Gasset for ages. I've heard his interpretation is quite interesting and more or less out of the box. Probably it's irrelevant for this discussion but at least it will bring me back to the atmosphere of the book. By the way, if we start thinking for Don Quixote in the way suggested by the fictional Auster, doesn't Don Quixote remind you of Hamlet? This whole madness and testing the others thing?
I would have to think about the Hamlet connection more closely, but the José Ortega y Gasset sounds worth a look. Where kind I find it?


I finished The City of Glass last night and I'll have to go up the thread and look over comments. I really enjoyed it, but I'm not sure what to think of the ending. Those last two chapters seem to come from nowhere. Do they fit? I need to ponder this a little. :D

I fond the last two chapters completely irrational and seems as if he went mad before he went mad. Why didn't he visit the apartment? I think City of Glass and Ghost are thematic explorations of the events in The Locked Room. I think the story revolves more around theme than plot. I think that is where my initial confusion spawned from. I expected the emphasis to be on on plot since this is a Detective/Thriller/Mystery novel. My preconceptions of the novel's identity did me in.

[Virgil]

I fond the last two chapters completely irrational and seems as if he went mad before he went mad. Why didn't he visit the apartment? I think City of Glass and Ghost are thematic explorations of the events in The Locked Room. I think the story revolves more around theme than plot. I think that is where my initial confusion spawned from. I expected the emphasis to be on on plot since this is a Detective/Thriller/Mystery novel. My preconceptions of the novel's identity did me in.

The more I think about the last two chapters the more I think they are off track. How does he go from a writer to a bum living in an alley not minding the sitting in a garbage tank, or whatever they're called? It seemed an improbable leap. Was there any prep work for it?

[NickAdams]

The more I think about the last two chapters the more I think they are off track. How does he go from a writer to a bum living in an alley not minding the sitting in a garbage tank, or whatever they're called? It seemed an improbable leap. Was there any prep work for it?

I'm with you Virgil. It was suggested in another post that he had been slowly going insane after leaving his routine. I don't think you'll find the answer in plot or psychological development, or devolvement, but the answer is held in the authors personal history, which you will only discover in The Locked Room. I think these stories were constructed the way Yeats constructed A Vision. You have to review the themes and the symbolism, but all that is in the last book.

[Virgil]

I'm with you Virgil. It was suggested in another post that he had been slowly going insane after leaving his routine. I don't think you'll find the answer in plot or psychological development, or devolvement, but the answer is held in the authors personal history, which you will only discover in The Locked Room. I think these stories were constructed the way Yeats constructed A Vision. You have to review the themes and the symbolism, but all that is in the last book.

But who takes over the narrative at the last few pages? It really goes kooky then. But overall I did enjoy the novel. And love visualizing New York City as he moves about. ;) Ok I will have to keep reading. :D

[NickAdams]

But who takes over the narrative at the last few pages?

Auster's friend. He has been telling the story the whole time, but towards the end of City of Glass he reveals how he got involved. Remember Auster feeling guilty and all that?

[Amethyst2010]

What is the significance of Peter Stillman's appearance in The Locked Room ? The author thought that he might be Fanshawe and picked a fight with him. How does this incident shed any light to anything in City of Glass ?

I think the two main themes to all three stories are madness and loss of identity, in the characters Quinn, Black, and Fanshawe. Blue was also struggling with identify and Fanshawe's sister Ellen was in a way mad. Quinn was deteriorating to madness in City of Glass. After finishing Ghosts, I think Black started out quite insane visiting Blue disguised as White. Fanshawe was "confirmed" crazy in the final scene in the locked room. Assuming that Fanshawe was still sane when married to Sophie (or Sophie will detect the insanity and mentioned it ?) what drove him insane when ?

[NickAdams]

What is the significance of Peter Stillman's appearance in The Locked Room ? The author thought that he might be Fanshawe and picked a fight with him. How does this incident shed any light to anything in City of Glass ?



I believe The Locked Room to be more or less real. It is the experience of Fanshawe's childhood friend, who is also the narrator of The Locked Room and the author of City of Glass and Ghost. I think the experiences of The Locked Room was the source material for City of Glass and Ghost. The Narrator follows Peter Stillman, as does Quinn, who he wants to be Fanshawe. Quinn becomes confused in the train station by two men who could both be Stillman. He almost wills the man he follows into being the correct choice. Fanshawe's red book becomes a personal symbol in City of Glass and Ghost.

[Virgil]

Oh my Gosh, I've just read a dozen pages of Ghosts and find it incredibly boring. I can't keep the colors straight. This is completely different than City of Glass.

[NickAdams]

Oh my Gosh, I've just read a dozen pages of Ghosts and find it incredibly boring. I can't keep the colors straight. This is completely different than City of Glass.

:lol: Your "Oh my gosh" deceived me.

[Virgil]

:lol: I was surprised to find Ghosts to be this way after enjoying City of Glass so much. Lucky it's only around 60 pages. I'll slog through it.

[applepie]

:lol: That's no incentive Virgil. Here I am nearing the end of City of Glass, and now I'm not sure I want to even bother with Ghosts:D

[Virgil]

:lol: That's no incentive Virgil. Here I am nearing the end of City of Glass, and now I'm not sure I want to even bother with Ghosts:D

Did you enjoy City of Glass?

[Virgil]

Ok I've come to a very interesting section of Ghosts that I took the trouble to type out. Blue has been following Black and he follows him across the Brooklyn Bridge. Here's the first paragraph I wish to highlight:


It had been many years since Blue crossed the Brooklyn Bridge on foot. The last tine was with his father when he was a boy, and the memory of that day comes back to him now. He can see himself holding his father’s hand and walking at his side, and as he hears the traffic moving along the steel bridge-road below, he can remember telling his father that the noise sounded like the buzzing of an enormous swarm of bees. To his left is the Statue of Liberty; to his right is Manhattan, the buildings so tall in the morning sun they seem to be figments. His father was a great one for facts, and he told Blue the stories of all the monuments and skyscrapers, vast litanies of detail—the architects, the dates, the political intrigues—and how at one time the Brooklyn Bridge was the tallest was the tallest structure in America. The old man was born the same year the bridge was finished, and there was always the link in Blue’s mind, as though the bridge were somehow a monument to his father. He liked the story he was told that day as he and Blue Senior walked home over the same wooden planks he was walking on now, and for some reason he never forgot it. How John Roebling, the designer of the bridge, got his foot crushed between pilings and a ferry boat just days after finishing the plans and died from gangrene in less than three weeks. He didn’t have to die, Blue’s father said, but the only treatment he would accept was hydrotherapy, and that proved useless, and Blue was struck that a man who had spent his life building bridges over bodies of water so that people wouldn’t get wet should believe that the only true medicine consisted of immersing himself in water. After John Roebling’s death, his son Washington took over as chief engineer, and that was another curious story. Washington Roebling was just thirty-one at the time, with no building experience except for wooden bridges he designed during the Civil War, but he proved to be even more brilliant than his father. Not long after construction began on the Brooklyn Bridge, however, he was trapped for several hours during a fire in one of the underwater caissons and came out of it with a severe case of bends, an excruciating disease in which nitrogen bubbles gather in the blood stream. Nearly killed by the attack, he was thereafter an invalid, unable to leave the top floor room where he and his wife set up house in Brooklyn Heights. There Washington Roebling sat every day for many years, watching the progress of the bridge through a telescope, sending his wife down every morning with his instructions, drawing elaborate color pictures for the foreign workers who spoke no English so they could understand what they could do next, and the remarkable thing was that the whole bridge was literally in his head: every piece of it had been memorized, down to the tiniest bits of steel and stone, and though Washington Roebling never set foot on the bridge, it was totally present inside him, as though by the end of all those years it had somehow grown into his body.
First all that is true. That is part of the history of the Brooklyn Bridge, and if you ever get to see a documentary of the building of the Brooklyn Bridge, watch it, it's fascinating. Now this is quite a digression but it's also the first moment that there is any depth to the characters in Ghosts. Until now t's been an abstract story, no real characters except named as colors andsome vague story of a detective following a character, similar to City of Glass but with hardly any details to give them flesh and blood. Here we see Blue's childhood and relationship with his father. All of a sudden it's as if the character has become real, but it's integraated into the true story of the building of the bridge. And there is a parallel that's created, the Roebling father and son and Blue and his father.

For your edification, here's a couple of pictures of the Brooklyn Bridge, the second showing walkers going across, the walkers being on an upper level platform with the car traffic below.

http://todayeye.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/manhattan-brooklyn-bridge-1021-small.jpg

http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/wonder/structure/images/brooklyn2_bridge_1.jpg

http://www.inetours.com/New_York/Images/Brklyn/Brooklyn-Bridge_8837.jpg

What is also interesting is the very next paragraph:


Blue thinks of this now as he makes his way across the river, watching Black ahead of him and remembering his father and his boyhood out in Gravesend. The old man was a cop, later a detective at the 77th precinct, and life would have been good, Blue thinks, if it hadn’t been for the Russo case and the bullet that went through his father’s brain in 1927. Twenty years ago, he says to himself, suddenly appalled by the time that has passed, wondering if there is a heaven, and if so whether or not he will get to see his father again after he dies. He remembers a story from one of the endless magazines he has read this week, a new monthly called Stranger than Fiction, and it seems somehow to follow from all the other thoughts that have just come across to him. Somewhere in the French Alps, he recalls, a man was lost skiing twenty or twenty-five years ago, swallowed up by an avalanche, and his body was never recovered. His son, who was a little boy at the time, grew up and also became a skier. One day in the past year he went skiing, not far from the spot where his father was lost—although he did not know this. Through the minute and persistent displacements of the ice over the decades since his father’s death, the terrain was now completely different from what it had been. All alone there in the mountains, miles away from any other human being, the son chanced upon a body in the ice—a dead body, perfectly intact, as though preserved in suspended animation. Needless to say, the young man stopped to examine it, and as he bent down and looked at the face of the corpse, he had the distinct and terrifying impression that he was looking at himself. Trembling with fear, as the article put it, he inspected the body more closely, all sealed away as it was in the ice, like someone on the other side of a thick window, and saw that it was his father. The dead man was still young, even younger than the son was now, and there was something awesome about it, Blue felt, something so odd and terrible about being older than your own father, that he actually fight back tears as he read the article. Now, as he nears the end of the bridge, these same feelings came back to him, and he wishes to God that his father could be there, walking over the river and telling him stories. The, suddenly aware of what his mind was doing, he wonders why he has turned so sentimental, why after all these thoughts keep coming back to him, when for so many years they have never even occurred to him. It’s all part of it, he thinks, embarrassed at himself for being like this. That’s what happens when you have no one to talk to.
Auster continues building the relationship between Blue and his father, providing the detail of the father's death, and then Blue's thoughts turn to a story he's read in a magazine about another father and son with the son also discovering the death of his father. Now what does all this have to do with the story of Blue following Black? I don't think anything. I think it's just stray thoughts that are not relavant to the plot. Notice this shortly after walking across the bridge. Blue comes across a copy of Walden Pond and discovers it's copywrited by someone named Walter J. Black.


Blue is momentarily jarred by this coincidence, thinking that perhaps there is some message in it for him, some glimpse of meaning that could make a difference. But then, recovering from the jolt, he begins to think not. It's a common enough name, he says to himself--and besides, he knows for a fact that Black's name is not Walter. Could be a relative, he adds, or maybe even his father.

Well, I haven't finished reading, so I can't be certain, but it's not. There is no connection between the publisher Black and the Black Blue is following. There is no connection between Walden Pond or the Skier story or the building of the Brooklyn Bridge. In a traditional detective story, there are signs and clues that connect events and motivations. What Auster is doing is setting up a disconnect between facts and relavance, a dislocation of signs to narrative events. This falls under the phiosophic study of semiotics. I bet we can apply this disconnect to City of Glass as well. All these allusions are just extraneous signs that are not connected to the narrative in any relavant fashion. Why does Aster do this? It's an aesthetic form to protray his understanding of the life and the universe. I hope that made sense.

[NickAdams]

I forgot all about that. There are a few others stories that are interesting. Looking back, Ghost may be my favorite of the three. There is a connection, but it will be revealed as you read (not a spoiler).

[Amethyst2010]

There is a connection, but it will be revealed as you read (not a spoiler).

And read till the end of the third story The Locked Room. The answer isn't simple and obvious to me but I think I see some connection. The Locked Room may be the most enjoyable one, if you look for more meaningful interaction between the characters.

[NickAdams]

And read till the end of the third story The Locked Room. The answer isn't simple and obvious to me but I think I see some connection. The Locked Room may be the most enjoyable one, if you look for more meaningful interaction between the characters.

SPOILER ALERT!!!

Fanshawe's childhood friend is the author of the books and The Locked Room is his account on how he went from magazine writer to an author of fiction. We can look at The Locked Room as the source material for City of Glass and Ghost. The red notebooks, characters etc. Their symbolic meaning can be found in Locked Room.

[applepie]

Did you enjoy City of Glass?

I've enjoyed reading City of Glass, but I caught myself at the end wondering what happened. I've any number of theories, but as I turn them around in my head none made any sense. I found that I was left with a lingering sadness that Quinn was so withdrawn from the world that no one really noticed when he disappeared. Auster did, but that was quite a time after. I'm ashamed to admit that I'll not likely be one who becomes interested in this type of book. I'm left with way too many questions, and not nearly enough answers:D

I started on Ghosts, but I'm having a bit of trouble getting interested. A few things struck me. First, it is a similar scenerio of watching someone else. Also, the up front cash was the same. Quinn was paid $500 in City of Glass (though the check bounced), and the man in Ghosts was paid $500 in cash. All the color names are making it hard to keep things strait, and I'm also struck by the differences in his writing between the two tales. Ghosts just seems to run on and on, having no chapters or really logical break points. I have to say that City of Glass was much easier to read in that respect.

[lugdunum]

Better late than never.. have just finished the book :)

I just love this forum! You guys have great ideas :idea: and great comments. :thumbs_up:thumbs_up

I've had as much fun reading your posts as reading the book... well maybe not because I really enjoyed the book (particularly the last story) but anyways, it was great to read some of your posts.

And thanks to Paige19 for the interesting links and to Virgil for the pics....

[sofia82]

I read it in translation and really likes it ... and I gave this book as present to some of my friends and they liked too

[Tallgren]

I read the trilogy...a year or two ago, I don't really remember when but one thing I do know: I haven' been able to stop thinking about it yet.

Reading your interesting comments make it abundantly clear that I missed a lot when reading it the first time. A work to revisit for sure.

I loved City of Glass. I was surprised that Ghosts seemed to be a variation on the same idea, but of course that goes for all three of them. Anyway, I found Ghosts great. So strange, so creepy simply because little seems to be happening. Or?

The Locked Room, as I recall, is more traditional, isn't it? I found it the least intriguing part but based on your comments I'm sure I missed in what ways it explained the earlier parts. To the extent they ever can be explained.

Yes, thinking about it, Ghosts really got me thinking. Who is really being observed? Who is writing? Who is who? Who is being deceived? I'm sure a lot could be read into this on a symbolic level.

[kasie]

I hesitate to attribute so much power to LitNet but - I have just come across a newly re-issued p/b edition of The New York Trilogy and only a month or so back I was lamenting that I could not get a copy in UK. Just who is reading these Forums, I ask myself: not the manager of my local bookstore, surely? Anyway, better late than never, I'll now be able to read it and re-read the thread and understand more of the comments are about!

[Virgil]

I hesitate to attribute so much power to LitNet but - I have just come across a newly re-issued p/b edition of The New York Trilogy and only a month or so back I was lamenting that I could not get a copy in UK. Just who is reading these Forums, I ask myself: not the manager of my local bookstore, surely? Anyway, better late than never, I'll now be able to read it and re-read the thread and understand more of the comments are about!

Glad to see you back Kasie and would love to hear your thoughts on this. :) Perhaps there is an alien connection between lit net and your book store. :alien: :alien: ;)

[kasie]

Aliens in west Swansea? Nah.....although, maybe you have something there....it would certainly explain the driving habits in those parts....