College

[Jack_Aubrey]

It has come to the point in my life where contemplating college is a really important item on my agenda. So I thought I would come to a place with very intelligent, insightful people where I would ask them to give me their input. So, can I have your input on college?

[Bongitybongbong]

I'd help but I've got awhile before I have got to think about it myself.

[Jack_Aubrey]

Well, I appreciate that. If you don't mind my asking. How old are you?

[Bongitybongbong]

On March 5th. I'll be 14.

[simon]

University is the best lifestyle, with just as much stress as ahything else, however much you want to give it. I sugest it, but it isn't for everyone.

[amuse]

just be willing to study what the instructor wants you to, when you need to. (it took me 12 years to return and manage that.)

what does your sig say?

[EAP]

Don't ever cop-out on lectures. This is specially true if you are taking science subjects. A day's absence can upset your whole future routine and leave you seriously crippled, lagging in the class. Co-operate with the professor. The lesson plans may seem eccentric and courses superfluous but usually their is a good reason behind them, which may not be revealed at the beginning.
College brings with itself a certain feeling of freedom and importance that can easily make you look careless and condescending in the eyes of others. Just because you are in college doesn't mean you have got an open license to drown yourself in booze, talk out of your *** and generally trash around. You are shelling good money for the education. This automatically lands you with the responsibilty of justfying it. Try to do that.
Having said that, enjoy the social life, you will never get a second chance to be in the company of so many like-minded and similar aged personals. There are certain stereotypes associated with college which every college-born feels compelled to follow. I'd just say that don't ride them out just for the sake of it - peer pressue is constant and can really ruin your life, resulting in you ending up loosing your own identity and will. Try to strike a ballance between what you want to do and what is expected from you.

And don't forget to read up on the essential college prep books like 'Requiem for a Dream' and 'On the Road'. ;)

Good luck dude and here's hoping for a enjoyable, fullfilling college life for you.


[P.S: Out of curiousity, which courses are you planning to take?]

[Koa]

I ve never managed to understand what s the difference between college and Uni...and Im NOT asking for an explanation, thanks :) Bah, I lost my motivation in studies but I think the education system can't be less stimulating than here in any corner of the 'western' world... So enjoy student's life cos it's really cool, not many responsibilites (again, seen from my cultural point of view...I see EAP says not to skip classes, lol here you're pointed at as stupid when you do go to classes...) and various degrees of fun depending on the kind of person you are.

Now I'll be really unpolite and answer a question that has not been asked to me... Jack Aubrey's sig says Dzhozef Shtalin, but I think it wanted to say Iosif (Ok I dont remember the spelling myself) Stalin...

[Snukes]

In the States there really isn't much difference between College and University. Practically anyway.

A good first question to ask yourself is how BIG do you want your school to be? You've got the gigantic public Us, the eeety beety private liberal arts joints, and everything in between.

What you want to study is also a big question. If you don't know yet, I'm a big fan of liberal arts degrees, which give you a lot of room to wiggle around and get yourself sorted out. They also tend to be much more personalized - smaller classes, more time with professors, etc. (Which is bad news if you want to sleep through class, but EAP has already helpfully pointed out why that's a lousy idea ;).)

I'm in a big university now (~30,000 students) and the differences are pretty incredible. Buracracy is buracracy no matter where you go, but it's amazing what a difference it makes when you're a number versus a name...

What do you plan to study? Do you have any idea yet?

[amuse]

Thank you, Koa! Thank you, Jay!

forgot some stuff
also, try to sit in the front of class unless you've a disability/are pregnant/can't for some other good reason. they've done studies on this - people who sit up front get more A's. - literally, an instructor said, you can almost (yes, i wrote Almost, don't rush me people! :p) bet that the people up front will get A's, the ones behind them B's, behind those persons C grades...i can't go on. also, you're less likely to find persons whispering and distracting you up there.
this was on the wall in his classroom: there's a basketball coach at some school (forget where) who insists that her students sit up front - she wants their grades good enough to play, and they get the best ones in their classes.

and seriously, go to your instructor's office hour at least once and chat. you will both come away with a sense of completion, your professor will know your face and be more likely to bump your grade up if you're hanging by half a point between two grades, and you will gain insight into the mind of someone who loves their subject, and hopefully be inspired by it. if nothing else, you can clarify stuff/come off as a friendly student. and really, your instructor's like to see students come in. that's why they're teaching - do you think they prefer class sizes of 30, 40, 200 to one-on-one communication with someone who's interested in learning from them and cares enough to show it? most people don't do this...i can't recommend that or sitting up front enough. and i've heard tales about people who line up extra extra early in some uni's to sit up front everyday. it's that powerful. :)

[Snukes]

Hm... how much of that do you suppose is based on the fact that good students are more likely to sit in front where it is (in fact) easier to pay attention, and less motivated students are just as happy to sit in back where they have a better chance of getting a nap? ;)

You are right - sitting in front may get you better grades because it forces you to at least pretend that you're paying attention, but I bet the statistics are biased. :p

And I did manage to prove that wrong with a chemistry lecture freshman year... Sat in the second row, dead center of a 350 person lecture hall and managed to squeek out of the class with a C by the skin of my teeth. Aaaah, gen eds...

[simon]

It's harder to fall asleep unnoticed when your in the front. Most profs just ignore sleepers, but I had one first year in a 200 lecture who would walk down the asile to kick the person awake. No the best alarm, but snorers should have a backup system so they can never fall asleep in classes.

[Jack_Aubrey]

I'm actually not enrolled anywhere yet, I'm still in highschool. I was just entertaining some serious thought on the topic of College and I thought I'd ask you guys.

[Sitaram]

Look into St. John's, Annapolis MD and Sante Fe NM. Its very different, not for everyone.

http://www.sjcsf.edu/asp/main.aspx?page=1302

[kilted exile]

I started off at the University Of Glasgow studying Immunology.I found university life pretty difficult, and ended up dropping out officially at the end of my first year there (stopped actually attending classes at the 3 month stage). Part of the problem was that I was not ready to begin university, and I couldn't get used to lecture theatres of 300 people.
After a couple of years I returned to further education (this time at college in Canada studying Environmental Engineering) I have found myself far more prepared and determined to finish this time round - working doing maintenance at a MacDonalds will make anyone want to get a better job. Also getting involved in college activities helps a lot.
With regards to starting at college/university my advice would be:
1) Make sure you are ready to commit to it.
2) Join a group/club/sports team. It helps to see a few familiar faces during the first few months until you get to know folk on your course.

[Jack_Aubrey]

Whoa Sitaram St.Johns sounds incredible! Thank you for that link, that's exactly what I'm looking for.

[Sitaram]

I graduated from St. John's in the 1960's, so feel free to ask me questions.

Here is one anecdote from my Freshman year, entitled "Isaac Newton's Homework"

http://toosmallforsupernova.org/page009.htm

Here is another anecdote from my college days, entitled
"Wisdom Comes Through Suffering"

http://toosmallforsupernova.org/page041.htm

Here is my Senior Essay on Hegel

http://toosmallforsupernova.org/historyofphilosophy.htm

[Jack_Aubrey]

Any question eh? Well, what kind of grades did you get in high school?

[Sitaram]

My grades in high school fluctuated greatly from very high to very low. I failed English during the same year that I won two state wide poetry awards (basically because I disliked the teacher).

St. John's was more about accepting people who would "fit in" to what they do, than about grade point averages.

Some people who graduated from St. John's went on to become physicians, or lawyers, or professors. Others became cab drivers. There used to be something in the catalog about how it was ok to have such an education and drive a cab or be a plumber.

We were free at St. John's to stop by the Deans office and check on our grades, but we were not encouraged to do so, since grades were not considered to be an approapriate goal for what we were doing, but rather a necessary evil for future transcripts.

The teachers there are called "tutors" and not professors, because, in that college's opinion, a professor "professes" to KNOW something, which rather resembles the sophists of Socrates day, whereas the word "Tutor" might perhaps connote the maiutic the Socratic (midwife) process which assists a person in an intellectual or spiritual "giving birth."

When I was in my early forties, I spent several years reading many books on psychology, psychiatry, psychotherapy, psychoanalyis, and the administration and interpretation of projective tests such as the Luscher Color test and Rorshach. I may possibly be the only lay person to read all of the Rorschach texts from the 1940s, 50s, 60s, and 70s, and acquire the cards and administer and interpret the test. I did it for fun, because it was interesting. I was totally free in what I read and did and thought. I watched the Rorshach test evolve through decades from something very subjective and opened to many, but then becoming very rigid and restricted to a small priesthood ordained by academia to become Rorshach practitioners. The latest guru of Rorshach (and each decade goes through its phases and fads of who is guru), says on page 1, "You must hold up the first card to the subject and say only 'What might this be?' and NOTHING more." I wondered to myself how many patients in need of Rorshach would really understand the meaning of such a phrase in the optative, "what might this", rather than simply feel confused or intimidated.

I met a very successful PhD in Clinical Psychology who was a highly paid consultant to large Corporations, to evaluate job candidates for executive positions. He described to me the process of earning his Doctorate. He said that each week, he would bring another few pages of his thesis to an unspired thesis committee, and they would thrash and hash about until they could all agree upon some lowest common denominator consensus of what the University might be willing to publish which was not unconventional and would not make waves or rock the boat in the ocean of Academia. He explained that one must simply buckle down and submit to this process of enforced mediocrity or else one would never be granted the credentials necessary to practice.

How much of what comes out of the University grist mills is inspired or inspiring?

I told one graduate student in Psychology at Yale about my independent readings and ideas and he said "Wow! I really envy your experience. I have to grind out the most boring statistics day after day if I hope to earn my Doctorate, and I have no time or energy left for anything as interesting as what you are working on."

I am sure that there are exceptions to these sad stories in the academic world. Somewhere, surely, children laugh and play while dogs and heifers frolic in sunny fields.

[baddad]

University is a cloistered (protected and pampered from the real world) arena where liberal thought is encouraged, except while you are actually in class. Reguritation is important, enlightenment unavoidable, friendships long lasting. But make no mistake, it is tough, grinding, sleep deprivation with the added bonus of thick expensive texts you can not fathom, a 24/7 schedule that excludes any kind of social life if you expect to excell, and just about the only saving grace is the fact that it only lasts 4 years....... Give 'em hell, my friend, and good luck. Life is never the same after education and enlightenment.......open your mind and enjoy!!!!

[Scheherazade]

Or some might say: 'Ignorance is bliss!'

[Jack_Aubrey]

If you do not mind my asking you Sitaram, what are you doing now? Also perhaps we could chat on a different platform?

[Sitaram]

You are welcome to chat with me in MSN, the handle is in my profile, or Yahoo or AOL.

I am not much of a role model if you seek financial success. If you want to know what St. John's was like in the 60's then I can give you a good idea. If you want to read my writings, you can judge for yourself whether there is something of value which reflects that particular brand of Liberal education.

I did not truly realize until late in life that I have learning disabilities. It was quite fortunate that I went to a school like St. John's where there are almost no formal exams, and where one is called upon DAILY to speak before the class, extemporaneously, and explain, explore, defend, and where evaluation is based on writing lots of papers and undergoing oral examinations. I was good at writing and speaking. I was not good at multiple choice tests.

I have never really fit in any place or been popular.

These above-mentioned factors in my life are what led me to be self-taught in everything, and out of the main stream.

The world needs a vast number of sanitation workers and cab drivers, and a much smaller number of CPA accountants and MBAs, and an even smaller number of Physicians and Professors, and not very many philosophers or poets at all (but it does need a few philosophers and poets each century, so that all the sanitation workers may have something to read and dream of as they rattle all those smelly cans.)

I'm not certain at all that the world needs me. But here I am, and I did what I thought was right at the time, during each stage of my life. If it were not for the miracle of the Internet, no one would ever read my words and know of my thoughts.

What is success? What is the purpose of any one human life. Someone once said that the purpose of life is to get through it (i.e. survival).

Now, we all can't be Gandhis and Dalai Lamas and Mother Theresas and Billy Grahams and Will Durants and Wm. F. Buckleys.

[Dyrwen]

If you'd like a little less streamlined education that St. John's has, even though its quite liberalized in its educational means, you might want to look into the college I'm at now: www.evergreen.edu

They've got a lot of programs in varying subjects that change all the time. You study whatever you want for four years and get a B.A. or B.S. pretty much no matter what. There aren't any grades, just evaluations on what you did well, poorly, what to improve upon, etc. It can be rather expensive, but the school is near a nice town (Olympia) and the teaching style is very good if you're into individual learning.

[Jack_Aubrey]

OK, thank you. I will try to contact you via instant messenger.

[Sitaram]

I am very fond of watching a weekly program on PBS educational television entitled "Religion and Ethics in World News" (or something to that effect.)

Today, they interviewed a New Yorker cartoonist who is a Christian Protestant Fundamentalist and graduated from a very religions, Protestant, fundamentalist University.

He explained that, initially, he thought he would become a missionary, a kind of "Indiana Jones" with Bible in hand. But, he was very talented in art, drawing, cartoons, and came to the decision that God would be more pleased with his life if he used the unique talents which God had given him, rather than struggle to become something for which he had far less aptitude.

The interview was quite instructive for young students.

And now, for a little miracle, I pray to Lord Google, chanting:

"religion and ethics" "new yorker" cartoonist fundamentalist

and, Lo and Behold, Presto Chango:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/

NEW YORKER Cartoonist Matt Diffee

You might think someone raised a Christian fundamentalist in Texas would not fit in at the sophisticated and cosmopolitan NEW YORKER magazine. But Matt Diffee, a Manhattan cartoonist, is making people laugh in spite of a lot of rejection.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week826/profile.html



The first year, I double-majored in art and missions, but then after a year I switched over to straight art. I realized at that point God would be more pleased if I used the gifts that I was given instead of trying to become what all my friends were becoming.

I went to a fundamentalist college, but I'm not certainly what people would think of as a fundamentalist. You know, lots of really funny guys that I know are fundamentalists.

We had a comedy team at Bob Jones called The Leaping Pickles. We used to say we put the "fun" in "fundamentalism."

[Jack_Aubrey]

Well, just looking at the reading list for St.Johns I know that I would be very familiar with the Bible, and with Luther.

[Sitaram]

I went through St. John's with one fellow who was much older than all the rest of us and had served in the Army, with a tour of duty in Korea, in the early 60's. I will tell you something of my memories of him.

He was talented as an artist and cartoonist. He had a charismatic personality and was a great organizer of people wherever he went. He told me that while in Korea he had chanced to read Mortimer Adler's book entitled "How to Read a Book" which mentions St. John's and the "Great Books" reading program. He explained that he wanted to come to St. Johns, partly, because he wanted to read all of those books, and he knew he would never have the energy to do it on his own, in his spare time, in the work-a-day world.

He approached me early in our Freshman year and asked me if I would like to "join forces" with him and assist him in some idea that he had about organizing our readings after the fashion of some syntopicon. I declined his invitation because I wanted the freedom to be on my own and do things in my own way.

I was only 18 or 19 and he must have been around 30. We even had one fellow go through all four years and graduate who was in his fifties!

The rule at St. John's was that there is absolutely NO transfer of credits from other institutions. Everyone who comes must start as a Freshman and progress through all four years.

One of my classmates had finished three years at the University of Maryland as a psychology major, and then decided to enter St. John's as a freshman. He went through all four years and graduated. The summer after graduation, he committed suicide. He was so tall and handsome and popular with everyone, and gentle and kindly, and smart too, he made everything look so easy.