Beyond Death

[blazeofglory]

I always wonder why we do the way we do, live, think, propagate to perpetuate our races or generations infinitely.

I do not know how long will I survive, and yet I keep on amassing wealth endlessly. I want real state, thick bank balances, good jobs, recognitions, awards and the like.

But the truth is that everything passes. I come across a person in the morning and I may miss him or her at the end of the day for good.

I am not the spiritual or religious kind. I can not contain myself within a scientific realm.

I do not think I will ever get the answer of this. Yet the desire to know the origin or the source of my existence and the hereafter.

I wonder how death is and only upon dying we can experience it.

I can not say the expereince of death will be likened to the one articulated in scriptures.

I am not a theist the way way theologies go and not the way atheists try to prove their understandings.

I can not as a materialist claims with death everything ends up. I see something beyond death.

I can not say there will be rebirths. I do not beleive the universality of soul.

Yet I feel life does not end up with death, and something, the airstream of us take new form.

Or even after death something of us go re-blended.

[SWL]

Since my wife passed three years ago.........I don't think a day goes by that I don't ponder this very subject.

[Zee.]

I am so sorry for your loss. I can't even imagine what that kind of pain feels like.

[blazeofglory]

Since my wife passed three years ago.........I don't think a day goes by that I don't ponder this very subject.

I am really sorry for all that you went through. But I think she is not dead and very much alive in your memory.

Relationship is a great bond, and even death can not separate when two souls are together that permeate physical realities.

Man does not live in the physical realm alone. He permeates the material. There is something immaterial about us. I do not want to link it with spirituality or religiosity. It is beyond these dimensions.

[Zee.]

Well, I think of it in the same way i understand energy. Energy is never lost but always recycled. So in that sense, life is always with us - even when it seemingly ..isn't. I understand that theory has and incredible amount of flaws but you get my drift.

However, all the knowledge in the world can't replace the pain of losing a loved one.

[Zee.]

EDIT option wouldn't work.

*an incredible

[skasian]

Death is the borderline between our life in earth and the eternal life in heaven or hell. Once we die, our physical body decays however the spirit moves on.
We are judged on the life we lived in earth and also on our strength of relationship we had with Jesus. We get thrown down to hell or get saved to live in heaven for eternity as there are no sense of space and time.

[Zee.]

i dont believe in jesus.

[skasian]

The topic is about beyond death, not specifically a question about your belief in Jesus. As you may have stated your non belief in Him, maybe you stull do believe in life after death.

[blazeofglory]

I have not said anything about Jesus at all, for all I said was about whether life ends up with death or still life continues thereafter.

I have no conclusion and in point of fact no one has even said conclusively, no saints, no Gurus, no scriptures can conclusively and formidably say about it. Of course different religious scriptures have different theories about heaven and hell but today in this age of science we are very skeptical.

Darwin questioned it and we are now questioning it along with hims. But all our questions are not answered by science and we become compelled to take refuge in something other than science.

Of course it is through books of religions that we have references to life after death or else we would not have thought about it at all.

Once again I make it clear that this is not a conclusive idea but an inquiry only.

[skasian]

My previous post was directed to limajean, not you blaze:) And I was asking a specific question to her about whether she believes in an afterlife or not and I know that this thread does not specifically ask people's belief in the existance or not.

I do not disagree that the world turns away from religion as it is the growing age of science which enables them to answer some questions about who they are as people and what surrounds them.
However science indeed do not give information in the spiritual level but we know it is the spirit that makes who we are and not a physical corspe. So, it is evident that mankind require more than science to uncover our true nature. Religion is the answer.

[NikolaiI]

Lord Jesus Christ was a pure devotee of the Lord, and a preacher of God-consciousness. Since Christ taught this, he is a guru, or spiritual master. Christ should be understood to be the spiritual master of Christians, who either worship Him as an incarnation of the Lord, or as the perfect devotee and preacher of the glories of the Lord. I have a question regarding the validity of eating meat - and if not for simply eating meat, then to eating it from a slaughterhouse. I call all Christians to not partake of this anymore.

Now what is God? God is the Absolute Truth. God is the truth, for the benefit of all, above all illusions. God is the Divine Grace, the Supreme Lord, the Divine Mother. God does not condone any kind of slaughter of humans. Humanity is sometimes shy of God because it is said he condones bloodshed. But God does not condone bloodshed, even the bloodshed of animals. It is currently practiced in our society by the demand of meat that the slaughterhouse is now a business. A slaughterhouse is the worst emblem of what we would call civilization. Actually a civilization is not a civilization if it has slaughterhouses. What I am saying is that God is not violent, even to animals. God is peaceful and the source of all goodness and love. God is one - every acarya, every single person agrees that God is one. Atheists project a false reality of devotees or believers in God to be illogical. Actually everything is in God, just like everything is in this material universe. Everything is in the universe, and what is beyond? that is God. Even if I have said everything wrong in my life or if had done everything wrong, it would not affect the truth of this statement. God is the source of reality, OM, the complete whole, and the Supreme Lord.


Now as to does live exist after death? Yes. We are all eternal servants of the OM, which is eternal. Every one of us has been in this material existence for millenia, transmigrating in evolution the different species of this life. Until now we have attained this boat of the human form of life, which is perfect for crossing the sea of birth and death. We cross by the mercy of the spiritual master, who is the wind which blows us across. Once we cross the ocean of birth and death, which we can only do by devotion to the Lord and the spiritual master, then we never fall again. Currently we are fallen, but we can regain our spiritual status; principally by the association and grace of saintly persons, and also in active, devotional service to OM, the Supreme Whole. Everything in this life is part of the creation of the OM, all is part of OM, which is the source of all and the complete whole, and every living being is eternal, and has passed through thousands and thousands of bodies. We will continue this path until we realize our position as servants of the Lord. We are part and parcel of the Lord - and just like how a body can only work if it aligns itself to the will of the self of the body, we as individual parts of the Supreme Soul can only work if we align ourselves to the will of the Supreme. There are reasons that we remain individuals, I will go into that at some point as I already have much on the forums. Our goal is not to become "one" with the Supreme Whole - parts and parcels must only learn they are part and parcel with the Whole. In fact our desiring to be the lord of material opulences is part of what separates us from our true connection - to our source in the Whole.

Are we eternal? Yes, but so is every living entity. Every living entity is a soul which has taken on a body due to desire.

[blazeofglory]

It seems many link afterlife with God, soul, heaven, hell, spirits, deities, incarnation and the rest of things making referrals of mythologies and legends. I do not have that view in mind at all.

All I have to express here the question whether there is an afterlife or not. I can not fully and logically beleive it or it can not be unbelieved as well.

Of course we all are torn between belief and beleif with regard to this.

Ir is a search, or an investigation into the question.

Life is indeed a mystery, and the cosmos is also a mystery.

Having said this I do not mean there is a God or a supernatural entity ruling all the world. Maybe or may not be but we can not subscribe to the Biblical or Islamic or Hinduistic view of creations. All spin their own stories, their own beliefs about creation and some are in clash with others.

Such variations in beliefs are creating misunderstandings among one another. And not only that it religious beliefs that do not support or harmonize one another bit antagonize or bring them up not to mutual and harmonious relationships but to conflicts and divisions.

Therefore I choose not raise any such questions. While I am unlike atheists read all about Jesus, Krishna, Mohamed, Buddha and the like but I never support or oppose any in antagonism or in relation to one another.

I have here irrespective of any believed or conventional theories raised a question that has little to do with scriptural or religious issues.

[skasian]

Lord Jesus Christ was a pure devotee of the Lord, and a preacher of God-consciousness. Since Christ taught this, he is a guru, or spiritual master. Christ should be understood to be the spiritual master of Christians, who either worship Him as an incarnation of the Lord, or as the perfect devotee and preacher of the glories of the Lord. I have a question regarding the validity of eating meat - and if not for simply eating meat, then to eating it from a slaughterhouse. I call all Christians to not partake of this anymore.

Now what is God? God is the Absolute Truth. God is the truth, for the benefit of all, above all illusions. God is the Divine Grace, the Supreme Lord, the Divine Mother. God does not condone any kind of slaughter of humans. Humanity is sometimes shy of God because it is said he condones bloodshed. But God does not condone bloodshed, even the bloodshed of animals. It is currently practiced in our society by the demand of meat that the slaughterhouse is now a business. A slaughterhouse is the worst emblem of what we would call civilization. Actually a civilization is not a civilization if it has slaughterhouses. What I am saying is that God is not violent, even to animals. God is peaceful and the source of all goodness and love. God is one - every acarya, every single person agrees that God is one. Atheists project a false reality of devotees or believers in God to be illogical. Actually everything is in God, just like everything is in this material universe. Everything is in the universe, and what is beyond? that is God. Even if I have said everything wrong in my life or if had done everything wrong, it would not affect the truth of this statement. God is the source of reality, OM, the complete whole, and the Supreme Lord.


Now as to does live exist after death? Yes. We are all eternal servants of the OM, which is eternal. Every one of us has been in this material existence for millenia, transmigrating in evolution the different species of this life. Until now we have attained this boat of the human form of life, which is perfect for crossing the sea of birth and death. We cross by the mercy of the spiritual master, who is the wind which blows us across. Once we cross the ocean of birth and death, which we can only do by devotion to the Lord and the spiritual master, then we never fall again. Currently we are fallen, but we can regain our spiritual status; principally by the association and grace of saintly persons, and also in active, devotional service to OM, the Supreme Whole. Everything in this life is part of the creation of the OM, all is part of OM, which is the source of all and the complete whole, and every living being is eternal, and has passed through thousands and thousands of bodies. We will continue this path until we realize our position as servants of the Lord. We are part and parcel of the Lord - and just like how a body can only work if it aligns itself to the will of the self of the body, we as individual parts of the Supreme Soul can only work if we align ourselves to the will of the Supreme. There are reasons that we remain individuals, I will go into that at some point as I already have much on the forums. Our goal is not to become "one" with the Supreme Whole - parts and parcels must only learn they are part and parcel with the Whole. In fact our desiring to be the lord of material opulences is part of what separates us from our true connection - to our source in the Whole.

Are we eternal? Yes, but so is every living entity. Every living entity is a soul which has taken on a body due to desire.


Deep thinking, and some interesting points!:)

Talking of slaughterhouses and eating meat, I would like to point out that before the 40days of rain and the incident of Noah's arh, mankind and all animals were herbivores. It is hard to believe but it is true, lambs and lions were happily socialising side by side. After this incident, God gave us everything to eat, and it was then human developed agriculture, farming and slaugherhouse. It was God's generousity to give us meat in our diet and increase protein intake improving our overall health. This is also God's way of showing unconditional love for us.

[NikolaiI]

Deep thinking, and some interesting points!:)

Talking of slaughterhouses and eating meat, I would like to point out that before the 40days of rain and the incident of Noah's arh, mankind and all animals were herbivores. It is hard to believe but it is true, lambs and lions were happily socialising side by side. After this incident, God gave us everything to eat, and it was then human developed agriculture, farming and slaugherhouse. It was God's generousity to give us meat in our diet and increase protein intake improving our overall health. This is also God's way of showing unconditional love for us.

I really respect what you say about everything, but I couldn't disagree with you more strongly about this. I don't want to change the subject to vegetarianism too much and I apologize about this. Please, simply consider and think about it, is all I ask. In my knowledge killing a cow is one of the worst sins one commit, since the cow is sacred. Also it is not improving to the health to do this, its vastly improved my health to become a vegetarian. Not on the lowest of this is mental health - I'm not longer killing an animal to eat. And even if one wishes to eat meat, one should never ever eat cows, because they are like our mother. And if one desired to eat meat, still the last way one should ever do it is by slaughterhouse. If you learn about them you will probably be very shocked. Humans don't have the right to do this horrible business of slaughterhouse. Especially when God has provided us everything, and we are healthier to not eat it. In my religion we offer everything to God before we eat it, and we eat only after it's been offered (I am not completely strict in this, but it's the idea in the religion and many will only eat food that's been offered if at all possible) anyhow it would be very offensive and out of the question to offer meat, because it's strongly forbidden. It's especially wrong to kill cows because cows are very sacred, as I said, they are like our mother. The God I believe in and worship is Govinda, which means protector of cows. Therefore it's important for devotees to try to work very hard for cow protection. I don't know what all can be done for this but I believe it's important. I do believe in only one God, which should have been aparent a long time ago; and I also worship Christ because he was (is) a perfect spiritual master. I think worship is good in both... but I am strongly against the slaughtering of animals, I don't think it's civilized in the least.

[skasian]

I really respect what you say about everything, but I couldn't disagree with you more strongly about this. I don't want to change the subject to vegetarianism too much and I apologize about this. Please, simply consider and think about it, is all I ask. In my knowledge killing a cow is one of the worst sins one commit, since the cow is sacred. Also it is not improving to the health to do this, its vastly improved my health to become a vegetarian. Not on the lowest of this is mental health - I'm not longer killing an animal to eat. And even if one wishes to eat meat, one should never ever eat cows, because they are like our mother. And if one desired to eat meat, still the last way one should ever do it is by slaughterhouse. If you learn about them you will probably be very shocked. Humans don't have the right to do this horrible business of slaughterhouse. Especially when God has provided us everything, and we are healthier to not eat it. In my religion we offer everything to God before we eat it, and we eat only after it's been offered (I am not completely strict in this, but it's the idea in the religion and many will only eat food that's been offered if at all possible) anyhow it would be very offensive and out of the question to offer meat, because it's strongly forbidden. It's especially wrong to kill cows because cows are very sacred, as I said, they are like our mother. The God I believe in and worship is Govinda, which means protector of cows. Therefore it's important for devotees to try to work very hard for cow protection. I don't know what all can be done for this but I believe it's important. I do believe in only one God, which should have been aparent a long time ago; and I also worship Christ because he was (is) a perfect spiritual master. I think worship is good in both... but I am strongly against the slaughtering of animals, I don't think it's civilized in the least.


First of all, I would like to comment that it is indeed the first time I ever had a disagreement with you! And there is nothing I dont like about it!:D
Secondly, I have couple of close friends that are vegetarians and I respect your view in it as much as I respect any of them. Let me continue, I have seen a movie that included a scene where a main character's pet cow had go through the slaughterhouse. I remember myself crying for half an hour, and it definitely caused me to question if the slaughterhouse is a must for our world to obtain meat. Until now, other than Hinduism, I never knew there was a religion that placed cows as sacred, and assuming that you were not Hindu, I never knew you had such belief. I apologise for stating comments that have distressed you in this way, and thank you for reminding me how cruel slaughterhouse really is, I strongly believe that any animal, including cows should not be treated in such way, and in the future I will do my part in helping stop farm animals go through slaughterhouses.

[NikolaiI]

First of all, I would like to comment that it is indeed the first time I ever had a disagreement with you! And there is nothing I dont like about it!:D
Secondly, I have couple of close friends that are vegetarians and I respect your view in it as much as I respect any of them. Let me continue, I have seen a movie that included a scene where a main character's pet cow had go through the slaughterhouse. I remember myself crying for half an hour, and it definitely caused me to question if the slaughterhouse is a must for our world to obtain meat. Until now, other than Hinduism, I never knew there was a religion that placed cows as sacred, and assuming that you were not Hindu, I never knew you had such belief. I apologise for stating comments that have distressed you in this way, and thank you for reminding me how cruel slaughterhouse really is, I strongly believe that any animal, including cows should not be treated in such way, and in the future I will do my part in helping stop farm animals go through slaughterhouses.

Skasian it is a very sensitive topic, I shouldn't have posted about it here since there's a thread on the topic. Thank you so much for saying that, it is very important to me. I'm glad you weren't annoyed that I said this. Sometimes people are very much against the idea, I think that it's an important issue, that we shouldn't kill our fellow creatures unnecessarily. I want to say I don't want anyone to do anything without thinking. I just want to raise the issue, and if there is such a strong reaction against it, I would wonder if it is not too strong (protesting too much). Because I've seen people say things like vegetarianism is a hypocritical idea, and I've just seen many people quite against it. Having said that there are many who are vegetarian, just not in my country. :(

[skasian]

Skasian it is a very sensitive topic, I shouldn't have posted about it here since there's a thread on the topic. Thank you so much for saying that, it is very important to me. I'm glad you weren't annoyed that I said this. Sometimes people are very much against the idea, I think that it's an important issue, that we shouldn't kill our fellow creatures unnecessarily. I want to say I don't want anyone to do anything without thinking. I just want to raise the issue, and if there is such a strong reaction against it, I would wonder if it is not too strong (protesting too much). Because I've seen people say things like vegetarianism is a hypocritical idea, and I've just seen many people quite against it. Having said that there are many who are vegetarian, just not in my country. :(

Yes, I just want to apologise once again for my shortsightedness. Thinking about this again, I completely agree with you that people should not end the lives of animal in such cruelty. I believe that people who think vegetarianism is such way are wrong because they do not respect some vegetarians that are deeply connected with animals that prevent them from harming them. Those people should be re educated to learn to respect the belief of others. Plus its not only religion that makes people vegetarianism, some people like my grandfather have witnessed a slaughter of a chicken with bare hands, and because of that scene in his memory and the cruel nature the chicken had to go through, he refused to eat any from that day on. What I am saying is that I am suprised to know that there are people who thinks vegetarianism is hypocritical and they should not make such vile judgements when people do have reasons to be vegetarian.

[blazeofglory]

Yes, I just want to apologise once again for my shortsightedness. Thinking about this again, I completely agree with you that people should not end the lives of animal in such cruelty. I believe that people who think vegetarianism is such way are wrong because they do not respect some vegetarians that are deeply connected with animals that prevent them from harming them. Those people should be re educated to learn to respect the belief of others. Plus its not only religion that makes people vegetarianism, some people like my grandfather have witnessed a slaughter of a chicken with bare hands, and because of that scene in his memory and the cruel nature the chicken had to go through, he refused to eat any from that day on. What I am saying is that I am suprised to know that there are people who thinks vegetarianism is hypocritical and they should not make such vile judgements when people do have reasons to be vegetarian.

I am very excited at the fact that some of you, both Nikolai and Skasian show so much concerns for animals and accentuate vegetarianism.

I am a vegetarian and teetotaler. I am the one not from a religious point of view.

I love animals and birds. I do not love only animal beings, I am sensitive to plants. I do not know why I feel like this. I do not like to pluck even flowers.
When I pluck them or break a branch I feel guilty. I do not mean this is out of the hubris I write this but out of humility.

Just to share thinking that both of you feature the right ones. I find this the best context to share the strong beleif I hold in life.

[skasian]

I am very excited at the fact that some of you, both Nikolai and Skasian show so much concerns for animals and accentuate vegetarianism.

I am a vegetarian and teetotaler. I am the one not from a religious point of view.

I love animals and birds. I do not love only animal beings, I am sensitive to plants. I do not know why I feel like this. I do not like to pluck even flowers.
When I pluck them or break a branch I feel guilty. I do not mean this is out of the hubris I write this but out of humility.

Just to share thinking that both of you feature the right ones. I find this the best context to share the strong beleif I hold in life.

It seems this is one of those rare moments I feel a relief to find you agreeing with me. I am enlightened. The more surprising fact is that you have an extreme connection with plants as few people possess this, and I have noticed that most of them hold extreme appreciation to such substances that hold the breath of life. Some similar like you have also admitted they feel at wrong when they destroy life even if it is the most insignificant.
I like to believe that some people hold this extreme sensitivity because they are most connected to nature. As we human are born within nature itself, we are all connected to nature therefore connected to every organism that holds life. When an organism feels pain, we may also.

I am spiritually refreshened to remind myself this and I would like to thank you blaze for expressing your views in organisms that we share life with.

[blazeofglory]

It seems this is one of those rare moments I feel a relief to find you agreeing with me. I am enlightened. The more surprising fact is that you have an extreme connection with plants as few people possess this, and I have noticed that most of them hold extreme appreciation to such substances that hold the breath of life. Some similar like you have also admitted they feel at wrong when they destroy life even if it is the most insignificant.
I like to believe that some people hold this extreme sensitivity because they are most connected to nature. As we human are born within nature itself, we are all connected to nature therefore connected to every organism that holds life. When an organism feels pain, we may also.

I am spiritually refreshened to remind myself this and I would like to thank you blaze for expressing your views in organisms that we share life with.


It seemed we misunderstood each other at many points and here we seemed to have converged.

This is wrong. We seemed to have taken each other askance. Conflicts are everywhere and they exist within us. Everything is in flux and and motion in point of fact.

When there are conflicting forces within us and within a single being there is not unnatural that there are conflicting forces between us.

Basically we have many values that are common to us.

I believe all are one integral whole and your and my existences are one and we are together rooted to this planet. This understanding is rather complicated and beyond comprehensions of the ordinary.

[skasian]

It seemed we misunderstood each other at many points and here we seemed to have converged.

This is wrong. We seemed to have taken each other askance. Conflicts are everywhere and they exist within us. Everything is in flux and and motion in point of fact.

When there are conflicting forces within us and within a single being there is not unnatural that there are conflicting forces between us.

Basically we have many values that are common to us.

I believe all are one integral whole and your and my existences are one and we are together rooted to this planet. This understanding is rather complicated and beyond comprehensions of the ordinary.

What exactly was my view different to yours? Your belief that we are all integral whole is parallel to my view that we and every organisms on earth is connected.