Fall of Lucifer

[Hyacinth42]

Alright, I've looked through the different theories of when and why Lucifer fell. The big argument seems to be whether it was before man or shortly after, but before the fall of man. And the only reason why he fell, that I can find, is that he thought he was better than God and wished to rule Heaven.

But, I remember reading somewhere that Lucifer fell after the fall of Man. That Lucifer went to God and demanded that He punish them for being sinful and whatnot. But God had made Angels to be His servants and Man to be His children, so He would always hold Man higher in His heart, and it was not Lucifer's place to slander His children. Lucifer couldn't accept that, and that was why he fell.

Now, I can't find this anywhere!! Anyone know where I might have read this?

[JBI]

According to Milton, he wanted to be on God's right hand, and was offended that the Son, Jesus, automatically was granted the position. At that point he realized the only thing left for him was to rebel, as there were no other directions to move in.

Either way though, if God is omnipotent and omniscient, he created Satan so that he could rebel, and therefore tempt Adam and Eve, and subsequently bring the fall of man. The desire for the fall of man was God's plan all along if you believe God is all powerful.

The problem then comes with the notion of free will. Milton tries to answer that again, but I think in the end, as great as he was, he ended up failing. The Calvinist thought of his day seems to win, being that whether you burn in hell or live eternal in heaven is predecided, and that technically God wants you to burn.

This of course, is rather shaky. The fall of Satan comes essentially from a mistranslated lines in Isaiah:

How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
13You said in your heart,
'I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.'
15 But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
16Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
'Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,
17who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?'
18All the kings of the nations lie in glory,
each in his own tomb;
19but you are cast out, away from your grave,
like a loathed branch,
clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword,
who go down to the stones of the pit,
like a dead body trampled underfoot.
20You will not be joined with them in burial,
because you have destroyed your land,
you have slain your people.


Isaiah in this case is talking metaphorically about a planet, Lucifer, commonly known to us today as Venus. That later becomes transferred to the revelatory dragon seen in Revelation.


It is merely a rather strange misattribution, in the sense that it collided a folk-fable, or perhaps a political allegory, with a new theology, forming a demiurgeous force. The folk myth is rooted on the cyclical nature of Venus, appearing different at different times of day, whereas the other is rooted in an absolute evil. A Very strange collision of ideas, which all seem to form in Milton, who I think gives us our contemporary picture of Satan.

[skasian]

Hmm, I remember listening at church about the story of the fall of lucifer. He was actually an angel, Luciel and he was leader of hymns and songs of praises dedicated to God. As Luciel was singing he became too proud of himself and liked the attention he was getting. With group of angels he lead, he thought he could win a battle against God, and out of his foolishness he got sent to hell with the changed name. I remember asking when this occured and got answered it was before the fall of man. We all know the snake tempting Eve to take the bite of the fruit right? The snake was influenced by Lucifer who would already be residing in hell, not heaven.

[Rush_of_Blood]

If you are looking at this from a biblical point of view, this is not what the bible says about why Lucifer fell.

[skasian]

Yes, I do know that it is not from a biblical point of view, but it is interesting.