Nietzsche on Jesus

[curlyqlink]

From Beyond Good and Evil:

"Is it possible that underneath the holy fable and disguise of Jesus' life there lies concealed one of the most painful cases of the martyrdom of knowledge about love: the martyrdom of the most innocent and desirous heart, never sated by any human love; demanding love, to be loved and nothing else, with hardness, with insanity, with terrible eruptions against those who denied him love; the story of a poor fellow, unsated and insatiable in love, who had to invent hell in order to send to it those who did not want to love him-- and finally, having gained knowledge about human love, had to invent a god who is all love, all ability to love... Anyone who feels that way, who knows this about love-- seeks death."

I think this is a brilliant bit of psychoanalysis of the character of Jesus. Speculative of course, but insightful. It is a commonplace that Jesus=Love, but it seems to me that, if looked into too closely, there is a certain pathological element to that specific kind of love. Something counterintuitively vengeful about that sort of absolute demand to be loved. Something revolutionary, uncompromising, unhealthy, and perhaps even--as Nietzsche concludes-- suicidal.

While he implicitly denies Jesus' divinity, Nietzsche seems to have a great deal of sympathy for Jesus ("a poor fellow"). Also, it seems to me, a certain admiration for him.

[NikolaiI]

Nietzsche was a great biblical scholar and a very deep thinker. The idea he proposed here should not be taken at face value. There is more behind his words. One thing Nietzsche said was not to value your own thinking higher than that of those who disagree with you. This shows a high integrity, which is necessary if one is ever to arrive at truth. One thing Nietzsche also emphasized was not to follow herd mentality- whatever the herd. The herd runs off the cliff, but if you follow far behind, you will not run off too.

[blazeofglory]

Nietzsche was an observer, the kind who never yields to authorities. Organized religions and organized Christianity for that matter is what he is spiteful about most.

Jesus as a persons is unique, and love embodied no doubt, but when he is mired in Christianity or when some Christianity try to contain him in their narrow ideologies and present his ideas and teachings through prisms of their narrow and sectoral ideologies he becomes colored.

I look at Jesus from an uncolored lens, the way he is, seamless and pure, an epitome of love.

Maybe Nietzsche looked at Him through a spectrum of love that is pure and unsullied, he is totally justifiable.

[JBI]

I don't know - rereading Matthew this week, I find Jesus's praised morality to be a little dated. He may preform miracles, but surely his damnation of x and y is a little closed minded. As a moralist, perhaps he was revolutionary for his time, but for our time, and our culture, I think he's lagging severely behind.

I think what Nietzsche saw though, was the self-sacrificing portrayal of Jesus (which perhaps is true or not true), as being commendable. The notion of someone undergoing torture to save humanity is one of respect - like commemorating a good Samaritan who dies trying to save people in a fire, but on a much larger scale.

I think, in terms of the religious aspects, Nietzsche, judging by his philosophy was rather repulsed. I think his judgment on Jesus comes on more literary grounds than anything else. The belief in the God isn't the question, or the truth in the story - I think Nietzsche just treats it as a fable of sorts as he said, and tries to express the moral of the story. The notion of Jesus giving everything to save that which he loved is what is at the center, Nietzsche is trying to say, not the petty truth or laws.

[NikolaiI]

removed by poster.

[JBI]

Thank you for hijacking the thread - either way though, I think if anything Jesus was, if he existed, concerned more about the relationship between people, and not between God. From a non-believing perspective (as the majority of the world is, being Muslim, Atheist, Hindu, or whatever) I can sympathize with some points of the story, while rejecting others. I think that was what Nietzsche was really doing. What you said, I am afraid, is off topic. Nietzsche didn't see God like that, and even used the appropriate term "Fable", a story bearing a moral, which he found interesting. It is the love for humanity that interested Nietzsche, and nothing to do with God.

[NikolaiI]

nevermind. (my apologies)