Vaporized unpersons

[Richier]

There seems to be an inconsistency between the early and mid parts of the book.
Early in the book, the narrative, which I take to be Winston's thoughts, talks of people being vaporised - the bullet to the back of the neck. This is described as if it was general knowledge in the outer party.
However, when we experience unpersons later on, they never existed and aren't allowed to be referred to as if they did exist. So under what circumstances would outer party members be able to discuss vaporisation (which is considered slang so someone must have coined the phrase).
I'm slightly disappointed in this potential flaw, so would be happy if someone can offer an explanation.

[The Atheist]

There seems to be an inconsistency between the early and mid parts of the book.
Early in the book, the narrative, which I take to be Winston's thoughts, talks of people being vaporised - the bullet to the back of the neck. This is described as if it was general knowledge in the outer party.
However, when we experience unpersons later on, they never existed and aren't allowed to be referred to as if they did exist. So under what circumstances would outer party members be able to discuss vaporisation (which is considered slang so someone must have coined the phrase).
I'm slightly disappointed in this potential flaw, so would be happy if someone can offer an explanation.

Outer Party members would never have discussed the subject; it's Doublethink at its finest.

You know there are unpersons.

Unpersons do not exist and have never existed.

Even thinking some unpersons might have existed is thoughtcrime.

What's to discuss?

[Richier]

Outer Party members would never have discussed the subject; it's Doublethink at its finest.

You know there are unpersons.

Unpersons do not exist and have never existed.

Even thinking some unpersons might have existed is thoughtcrime.

What's to discuss?

I agree with the above, but early in the book when Winston is starting his diary, is the comment "Vaporized was the usual word". So who usually uses the word vaporized? How would vaporized become a usual word? No Outer Party member would say "I notice Syme was vaporized last night..." (and this fact was used by O'Brien to send his subtle message to Winston)

[The Atheist]

I agree with the above, but early in the book when Winston is starting his diary, is the comment "Vaporized was the usual word". So who usually uses the word vaporized? How would vaporized become a usual word? No Outer Party member would say "I notice Syme was vaporized last night..." (and this fact was used by O'Brien to send his subtle message to Winston)

There were obviously some discussions, because I imagine it's pretty obvious that people suddenly went missing, so the word would have been used in subtle situations - by people before they themselves became unpersons, no doubt.

That's why it's crucial to use doublethink.

[lukgem]

There seems to be an inconsistency between the early and mid parts of the book.
Early in the book, the narrative, which I take to be Winston's thoughts, talks of people being vaporised - the bullet to the back of the neck. This is described as if it was general knowledge in the outer party.
However, when we experience unpersons later on, they never existed and aren't allowed to be referred to as if they did exist. So under what circumstances would outer party members be able to discuss vaporisation (which is considered slang so someone must have coined the phrase).
I'm slightly disappointed in this potential flaw, so would be happy if someone can offer an explanation.


I think you can say it was described as if it was general knowledge but that does not mean it was general knowledge, that is open to interpretation. Then you say later on in the book when we experience unpersons they never existed and are not allowed to be reffered to as if they did exist. They never existed as the Party has erased all historical evidence of their existence, is this not a demonstration of their Totalitarian power? Therefore they have been completely written out of History, and by use of Double-think we can hold 2+2=5 to be true, so that we remember them and that they never existed can also be the correct answer to the problem of simple intellectual questioning through the use of double think.
Also i do not recall the term Vaporisation being used as slang? But am willing to be corrected. This term was part of Winstons battle against orthodoxy and his real links and battles with memories of the past that only existed within his mind. I do not think any outer party members sat over their greasy pannikins of stew and saccharrin tablets and talked about last nights Vaporisation as though it were us talking about Eastenders, Rickaaaaay!!!!

Should we not think about Totalitarianism in the way we can gain insight?
For example the Worker spies that were in every workplace under the Soviet system from Budapest to Vladikavkaz (may have just written a cheap brand of vodka into my reply there). Nobody spoke without fear, ever, Big Brother was watching you, the party's power was total. Therefore i do not take the book to be inconsistent, i think we must try to think what a Totaltarian state would be like and the mindsets it created.

[bazarov]

For example the Worker spies that were in every workplace under the Soviet system from Budapest to Vladikavkaz
...Vladivostok :)

[Richier]

Sorry, I think I have over-embellished my point.
My problem is mainly with the line "vaporized was the usual word".

How can vaporized be a usual word, when the concept is never spoken of?

[lukgem]

...Vladivostok :)

Hey Bazarov, that was an attempt at humour from myself, Vladikavkaz is a cheap brand of Vodka in England, many people use it here for the purpose of much merriment at little cost.:D

O.K Richier, You can use doublethink to hold two conflicting sides of one paradigm to be true at once. Could you consider the word "usual" only exists within Winstons internal narrative and is not spoken in public amongst other party members, therefore consistent?

I am reading Plato at the moment (Atheist thinks its boring) and this is turning into quite a platonic conversation, all we need to decide is who is Socrates, Plato, Polemarchus and Simonides!!!!!!!!

[Richier]

Vladikavkaz literally translates to 'Victory Gin'... maybe!

[Enjoi.]

Sorry, I think I have over-embellished my point.
My problem is mainly with the line "vaporized was the usual word".

How can vaporized be a usual word, when the concept is never spoken of?

Winstons ususal word perhaps, i do see your confusion, Winston mentions that vaporized was the usual word used after someone no longer existed, but no one speaks of the subject publically or in general conversation, so how did vaporized become "the ususal word" if no one ever really talks of these things.