Recommendations

[Redmagus]

Hey all. This is a broadcast to all poetry aficianados out there. I'm trying to improve my technical ability to write well and I figured I'd start by reading poetry to acquire an understanding of the creative use of the english language.

Are there any authors of poetry that anyone on this board recommends that could help me gain a more thourough understanding of the English language to aid me in essay writing, creative writing, technical writing or even just writing in general? Or, did you guys need me to be a little more specific?

[mayneverhave]

Shakespeare.

[JBI]

Get the Norton Anthology of Poetry, read through it, then pick out what appeals to you. Honestly though, it's hard to just jump into poetry - one of its problems - because it is a long tradition, with very difficult uses of language. I think the easiest place in Blake's Songs of Innocence, then on to certain Victorian poets, such as Tennyson, The Rossettis, and Longfellow from the States. Those are probably the most accessible. Housman is pretty accessible also, and also a pretty good place to start.

[mayneverhave]

Honestly, I started out detesting the Victorian poets - and to a large extent, still do. What really sparked my interest in poetry at first was my reading of the Romantics - specifically Keats.

A spontaneous outburst of creativity, descriptions and reflections on nature, etc. were pretty easy for novice-me to understand.

[JBI]

I dunno - I find Keats sometimes evasive and difficult - Wordsworth is far easier, but still, to really understand him is quite challenging.

The poems themselves in the Romantic tradition seem too dependent on the author, and become obscured.

Either way though, you're probably right. It's all preference - I personally prefer modernist poetry over almost every other period's work, but that's just me. Most people prefer more conservative works, or more formalist works, or perhaps older works.

I simply named the Victorians, because they have some great accessible work, namely something like this:

When I am dead, my dearest,
Sing no sad songs for me;
Plant thou no roses at my head,
Nor shady cypress tree:
Be the green grass above me
With showers and dewdrops wet;
And if thou wilt, remember,
And if thou wilt, forget.


I shall not see the shadows,
I shall not feel the rain;
I shall not hear the nightingale
Sing on, as if in pain:
And dreaming through the twilight
That doth not rise nor set,
Haply I may remember,
And haply may forget.

Rossetti isn't compromising meaning or style, yet seems to be very relaxed and simple in conveying her messages.

But then again, she can also be more complicated, like in this sonnet:

Ten years ago it seemed impossible
That she should ever grow so calm as this,
With self-remembrance in her warmest kiss
And dim dried eyes like an exhausted well.
Slow-speaking when she had some fact to tell,
Silent with long-unbroken silences,
Centered in self yet not unpleased to please,
Gravely monotonous like a passing bell.
Mindful of drudging daily common things,
Patient at pastime, patient at her work,
Wearied perhaps but strenuous certainly.
Sometimes I fancy we may one day see
Her head shoot forth seven stars from where they lurk
And her eyes lightnings and her shoulders wings

[JBI]

Then again, someone perhaps could be more inclined to favor something like this:

I heard a thousand blended notes,
While in a grove I sate reclined,
In that sweet mood when pleasant thoughts
Bring sad thoughts to the mind.

To her fair works did Nature link
The human soul that through me ran;
And much it grieved my heart to think
What man has made of man.

Through primrose tufts, in that green bower,
The periwinkle trailed its wreaths;
And 'tis my faith that every flower
Enjoys the air it breathes.

The birds around me hopped and played,
Their thoughts I cannot measure:--
But the least motion which they made
It seemed a thrill of pleasure.

The budding twigs spread out their fan,
To catch the breezy air;
And I must think, do all I can,
That there was pleasure there.

If this belief from heaven be sent,
If such be Nature's holy plan,
Have I not reason to lament
What man has made of man?

Wordsworth's lines In Early Spring are quite simple, though very profound. It comes down to which style you prefer.

[Redmagus]

The anthology is written by two people; Margeret Ferguson and Jahan Ramazani. What edition should I buy and by whom?

[JBI]

The fifth edition, preferably the unabridged. It is just edited by them, not written by them. It contains poets from Caedmon to contemporary times.

[Redmagus]

Awesome. Thanks a lot guys! :D

[Jozanny]

I am going to offer advice nearly antithetical to JBI's. Start with contemporary poets publishing today, then work your way back to the Modernists, Romantics, Elizabethan, etc.

I used to read a tonnage of contemporary poets, and there are just too many names to start with, but Poetry Daily (http://www.poems.com/) keeps me abreast of my more successful colleagues. I have names I like but don't have time for that now.

I became interested in poetry and becoming one by reading modern poets first. Sure, being grounded in humanism in your studies is valuable, but don't shrink your ovaries or chestnuts. Dive into a living and vibrant poetic world, go to readings. Live, then you can worry about the past which came before.

Not that it matters, but I have now thoroughly depressed myself because I know today's featured poet on the daily site, or used to, and he has a great piece up there. I hate my miserable ill-begotten fate. Once upon a time I was the real thing, and now this is what I'm reduced to. I should just die and be done with it.

[JBI]

I dunno - post-modern poetry these days seems to desire an undermining of the past - in order to understand that, you must have somewhat of an understanding of the past. Therefore, something that challenges bounds is incomprehensible to someone who doesn't know what those bounds are.

Either way though, the Norton anthology is good, because it is all there, with good footnotes - a great overview. Basically it has all the "classic poems" of academia, which means when they are later referenced or alluded to, they will make sense.

[stlukesguild]

I don't know, JoZ. I largely agree with JBI. I don't see contemporary or post-modern poetry as being at all easier to grasp simply because it is a product of today... actually the opposite is more likely true as it often seems to rely upon the reader's knowledge of previous poetic tradition. As an artist the last thing I would recommend to the person interested in learning about painting would be to look at Modernism, Post-Modernism, etc... No, I'd probably have them begin by exploring the work of the masters upon whom this later work is dependent. With poetry I'd start with an anthology... and probably with the Romantics... the earlier poets far more likely to utilize a vocabulary that may be too archaic for the initiate. Having said this much, I do agree that one should certainly spend time exploring contemporary poetry... being open to what living poets are doing here and now... and not imagine poetry as some ossified dead art form.

[Jozanny]

Al would be the type to let my recalcitrance glide too, as I did not expire during the 45 minutes it took for me not to be able to pull my sweat pants up to dash to the store as fast as I could:rolleyes:. I threw my jama gown over and pulled down and don't think anyone could tell. Now being home with the gown properly used, I don't think we disagree so much over exposure as we do in pedagogic approach. To use the example from the teacher movie, if Dylan is the hook and bait for kids with bad attitude, then start them off with Dylan.

That is a really good poem, impressive. I know Al's style and he has aged like a good wine. I will be trying to return to Poets & Writers soon, because I am in their directory and they asked me to update, and for that I need my account back:lol:

I am too unhealthy now to rant long and deeply as I used, and I guess I could send them over here so they can see that my *hostility* hasn't killed anyone. There was a second tier journalist there who hated me and thought I was an axe murderer, and whatever my sins, his were worse, since I am nothing more, nor ever was, anything but a significantly disabled writer with long odds.

[Jozanny]

Try Louis McKee, he is a Philly poet, like me, and fairly easy to understand.

Also, the recently deceased Gil Ott, who died of kidney failure; he was a people's poet, and didn't much care about complexity. You do not have to be a Shakespearean scholar to appreciate modern poets, not all of the time.

Terrence Hayes is actually living, and healthy, in Pittsburgh, and has some quite interesting things going on in his work.

That should be a start if you want to examine contemporary without too much complication, and there is no harm, if, after becoming comfortable with the academic canon, this leads you to a greater appreciation of those not yet on it.

I can do more name dropping later too, if you like.:D

[Redmagus]

A modern style may be what I'm a looking for for the purpose I stated above. Bad timing though, I already bought the Anthology JBI recommended. It think it will be good. I may buy the modern anthology by around the next time I get paid.

My desire to read poetry is simply to gain a better linguistic understanding - specifically sytactic, dictional and usage - of English. I feel that the ordinarily succint use of poetry to create imagery would be useful for this end. As frequent writer of essays, technical documents and short stories, I think this will do well to educate me on the artistic side of writing and reading.

[mayneverhave]

Yes, the reading of contemporary poetry is fine - and also necessary. When one has completed a reading of the past classics (which are finite), one must turn to newer things.

To put it simply though you will enjoy reading contemporary poetry better with an understanding of past writing. Many poets (especially of the modernist period) like to throw in constant allusions and references to past works, so your understanding of them (and subsequent enjoyment) relies on your ability to recognize these allusions.

Also the ability to spot out experiments in metre in contemporary poetry requires that you know standard metre to begin with.

Plus, it never hurts to own a poetry anthology. Perhaps some of the poets will catch your interest and you can buy poet specific collections.

[Parvez Ahmed]

@redmagus

Dramatic Poetry - Shakespeare

Non-dramatic - Milton, Wordsworth, Shakespeare's Sonnets