Philosophers on revenge

[hampusforev]

Hey people,
I'm new here so you'll have to forgive me if I'm not completely on terms with the intricate precepts that seem to circumscribe every unique forum.

Anyway, I'm in the process of writing an essay on revenge in literature, and naturally I’d like to do some research first. I’ve scoured trough all of the different sections in my hometowns library (Stockholms library that is) and not even in the big library we have here I couldn’t find anything but one measly non-fiction book on revenge, and that one was out on top of that.
Now, of course I haven’t looked at EVERY book in the entire library, that would take years, but I’ve used the search-engine, and I fear that herein lays the problem. The search-engine is far from perfect and only seems to search on books where the main title contains revenge or its synonyms.

Now I know that there’s some philosophers dealing with revenge in some elaborate way, there’s got to be. Maybe not an entire book in it, but at least a good deal or a few chapters. I think Schopenhauer talks about it somewhere, but I’m not sure, any ideas on this? Nietzsche is prone to cover it; I like him, but have only read good collections of his writings and can’t recall any topics of revenge in there.

So feel free to enlighten me on this matter! Name any famous or just remotely famous philosophers.
And also, if you have any other good tips on non-fiction essays or books that deal with revenge in literature, please indulge me. They need not be only philosophy.

The books I’m focusing on in this essay will be The Iliad, The Divine Comedy, Icelandic tales, Moby Dick and Edgar Poe’s A Cask of Amontillado.

Cheers!

Hampus

[hampusforev]

Anybody?

[muazjalil]

I dont know about Revenge but if one considers that one critical element of revenge is "power over others" then check out Chapter 16 "Power Philosophies" of the book "Power" by Bertrand Russell. In that chapter he basically discusses famous philosophers whose writings were dominated by this one impulse, power. Another suggestion, although i haven't read it myself, "The Theory of moral Sentiments" by Adam Smith (apparently it deals with the emotional side of humans with focus on the baser ones, but i am not sure). You can also check out Bacon's Essays and see if there is anything on Revenge. I doubt you will get any specific chapter like "on Revenge" but i am sure he has plenty on Envy, Power, Human Nature, Selfishness, Greed etc

[hampusforev]

Wow, cheers man. I'll check those out. I've been meaning to read some Bertrand Russell so what the hey, great opportunity. Haha actually you're right on the money with Bacon because I've checked in to some of his essays, and there's actually one called "on revenge"! Well that do you know... Again, thanks

[yanni]

Philosophers are supposed to condemn vindicatory sentiments ie either cure those who have them or, at least, ignore them...

btw:

Dont let Poe deceive you.
His Cask of Amontillado has nothing to do with revenge, it's pure selfcriticism.

[hampusforev]

Yes I know, It's more profound than that. It's more about killing your other self I would say. But it's also a good revenge-story, to punish with impunity.

[muazjalil]

How is Count of Monte Cresto, in terms of being a good revenge book. LOL I had a feeling Bacon would have written something about Revenge. Since I feel "lucky", you may try Ralph Waldo Emerson (the american version of Bacon, in terms of writing about everything)

[weltanschauung]

it has to be Philosophy? it cant be fiction? cause if so,i can list :P

[curlyqlink]

Nietzsche takes up the subject of revenge in The Wanderer and His Shadow (1880), aphorism 33 "Elements of Revenge". He finds two types of revenge. The first is intended to prevent further harm to oneself; the second type (the more interesting I think) is intended to restore one's honor:

If our honor has suffered from our opponent, then revenge can restore it... our opponent thus demonstrated that he did not fear us. By revenge we demonstrate that we do not fear him either.
(Basic Writings of Nietzsche, Walter Kaufmann trans.)

In this analysis, it is thus rational to seek revenge, even when the revenge will cause us more damage than did the original insult.

Nietzsche then goes on to distinguish public revenge from private revenge, and the motives underlying each. Of particular interest is this gem:

...he will not think of revenge if he despises the doer and the spectators of the deed-- because they, being despised, cannot accord him any honor and hence also cannot take it way.

Nietzsche clearly is not the kind of philosopher who believed in turning the other cheek.


As for fiction, I think you will be rewarded looking into the Icelandic sagas. Blood feuds are important in the family sagas. I find a beautiful sense of sadness pervading these heroic tales, sadness at man's inability to curb the cycle of revenge, violence, and loss. Offhand I'm thinking of Njal's Saga and the Volsungs Saga.

Good luck and enjoy--

[hampusforev]

curlyqlink:
Wow this is all great. Really glad to have found this forum.
I thought Nietzsche would give his classic different take on things. Should be interesting.
Yeah I've read the Islandic sagas and they're really intense and just brimming with vengeance and vendettas.

As for the Count of Monte Cristo, sure it's plot seem just tailored for this but I'm already knee-deep in different fiction with possible revenge themes, the canon just seem filled with them. So I'm going to limit myself to the books which I've listed above.

[absurda]

curlyqlink:
Wow this is all great. Really glad to have found this forum.
I thought Nietzsche would give his classic different take on things. Should be interesting.
Yeah I've read the Islandic sagas and they're really intense and just brimming with vengeance and vendettas.

As for the Count of Monte Cristo, sure it's plot seem just tailored for this but I'm already knee-deep in different fiction with possible revenge themes, the canon just seem filled with them. So I'm going to limit myself to the books which I've listed above.

I was going to say The Count of Monte Cristo, too.
Well, even though I am not religious, let alone christian, I still think it would be worth mentioning the Bible on your essay (turn the other cheek, forgiveness, and so on), since it undoubltfully influences our western society.

[hampusforev]

I was going to say The Count of Monte Cristo, too.
Well, even though I am not religious, let alone christian, I still think it would be worth mentioning the Bible on your essay (turn the other cheek, forgiveness, and so on), since it undoubltfully influences our western society.

Oh, didn't I list the bible? No, it seems I didn't, but of course I'm going to include the BIG BOOK, it's my favorite bashing object.

[hampusforev]

The essay is now done and turned out really well. I'm pleased! I'd like to thank everybody for your contributions, much appriciated!

[muazjalil]

Hey if possible can you share your essay with us??? Should be an interesting read.

[hampusforev]

Yeah I would surely do it if you speak swedish! Haha, I perhaps should've mentioned that I'm from Sweden and it's in Swedish. So if you for some reason should posess the unlikely trait of speaking swedish, I can upload it.

[muazjalil]

AFSOS - Thats the word in Bangla that best captures my feeling. I guess if you translate afsos in to english you will get "Damn" LOL .

[NikolaiI]

when I first saw the title of this thread I thought it meant philosophers were on revenge...