who is newspeak meant for?

[skisurfer11]

When the members of the party write newspeak for the new eddition of the dictionary who is it meant for? Since most of the prols don't or can't obtain a dictionary the only other peole left to see it is the party members. If newspeak intends to reduce the amount of words in the English language and eventaully reduce the intellagance of the people does that include everyone in Oceania will use newspeak or is it just for the prols? How would they obtain that knowlege and how if they are not intellagent enought to understand!

[The Atheist]

The proles don't need dictionaries, their language will be dictated by the language in use by the Party.

Accordingly, Newspeak is for everyone. The Party couldn't have allowed two different languages to prevail, because it would have defeated the object - to get all people using the same English and having the same limitations on what can be said.

[skisurfer11]

yes but if the newspeak is meant to reduce the means of communication and essentailly make them dummer why would they want that for themselves or is newspeak just a way to get rid of words?

[HesSoHott101]

I think that newspeak is not only a way to get rid of words but also a way to simplify inteligence.It is said what you dont know cant hurt you, but if there is nothing to know then no one would ever get hurt.By simplifying the language they are not only limiting inteligence but in a way protecting the people as well.Any thoughts?

[jellolover07]

I think that newspeak is not only a way to get rid of words but also a way to simplify inteligence.It is said what you dont know cant hurt you, but if there is nothing to know then no one would ever get hurt.By simplifying the language they are not only limiting inteligence but in a way protecting the people as well.Any thoughts?

By being ignorant, you are not protected. Newspeak is meant to keep the people from thoughtcrime. Thoughtcrime is being accused of having thoughts the go against Big Brother. Sure, by not being able to express rebellious thoughts the people would be safer from being vaporized, but they would never be able to escape the power of Big Brother.Protecting the power or Big Brother is the point of newspeak, and dictionary or no dictionary, it will effect everyone.

[burmesedays]

The purpose of newspeak is to make it impossible to express thoughtcrime, only to be excepted by someone shouting gibberish angrily or something along those lines.

I read in the lost readings that Orwell's inspiration for newspeak was a small broadcasting language called basic english that consisted of 600 words, so if you really wanted to look into it, that might be a good source.

[skisurfer11]

Thanks I think I understand better now.;)

[Enjoi.]

The Party creates NewSpeak in order to limit the thoughts of the current generation, but also future generations. If the Party can eliminate words from dictionaries, future generations won't be able to find these words. Even if their parents have used these words people will soon forget them and they will go away with each passing day. I agree that it also is to prevent thoughtcrime, the less thoguhtcrime=the less thought in general. This way of speaking doesn't really effect the proles. The proles speak in their own simple way and i don't agree with The Atheist, the proles seem to avoid the Party members both inside and out. Though if the Party member comes to them they will talk to them, though most of the time not very eloquently. The proles dictate their own language. Because they are such a massive portion of the population all the party needs to do is keep them satisfied and distracted. They don't need to give them rules about words, this would possibly anger them and they would possibly rebel.

[skisurfer11]

The prols make up 85%of the population but yet they are the least intellagent and the least contributive. This could be because of the victory gin and cigeretts that they get not to mention the pornosec. Are all of things ways to keep the prols preoccupied so they wonteven have anything to complain about?

[jellolover07]

The prols make up 85%of the population but yet they are the least intellagent and the least contributive. This could be because of the victory gin and cigeretts that they get not to mention the pornosec. Are all of things ways to keep the prols preoccupied so they wonteven have anything to complain about?

This doesn't have anything to do with newspeak.....
.

[Enjoi.]

This doesn't have anything to do with newspeak.....
.

lol..

[Enjoi.]

The prols make up 85%of the population but yet they are the least intellagent and the least contributive. This could be because of the victory gin and cigeretts that they get not to mention the pornosec. Are all of things ways to keep the prols preoccupied so they wonteven have anything to complain about?

i'll take that one, you are absolutely right. These things that the Party provide are to keep them distracted and satisfied in order to keep them under control. This does kind of tie into NewSpeak. The Proles never seem to use NewSpeak, but instead speak in their own choppy language. The Party doesn't force them to do anything and gives them things to do (i.e. lotto, pornosec, etc...). All of this is just to keep the majority satisfied and distracted so that even if there is a rebellion, it most likely will be with the Party members and it will be easily controlled.

[jellolover07]

i'll take that one, you are absolutely right. These things that the Party provide are to keep them distracted and satisfied in order to keep them under control. This does kind of tie into NewSpeak. The Proles never seem to use NewSpeak, but instead speak in their own choppy language. The Party doesn't force them to do anything and gives them things to do (i.e. lotto, pornosec, etc...). All of this is just to keep the majority satisfied and distracted so that even if there is a rebellion, it most likely will be with the Party members and it will be easily controlled.

I disagree. But I suppose that is part of the fun of a book with so many hidden meanings. :) the things they are provided with keep them entertained and distracted to a point, but pornography and lottery is not enough to make someone ignore injustice. The proles are viewed as ignorant and by giving them things such as pornography and the lottery, the party members also view them as dirty and stupid, making it less likely that they would ever aid in the help of a prole revolt or pay attention to the suffering the proles go through. The proles are expected to learn newspeak from the party members eventualy, but the party members are Big Brother's main focus because they are the biggest threat since they are more intelligent and hold more power.

[Enjoi.]

I disagree. But I suppose that is part of the fun of a book with so many hidden meanings. :) the things they are provided with keep them entertained and distracted to a point, but pornography and lottery is not enough to make someone ignore injustice. The proles are viewed as ignorant and by giving them things such as pornography and the lottery, the party members also view them as dirty and stupid, making it less likely that they would ever aid in the help of a prole revolt or pay attention to the suffering the proles go through. The proles are expected to learn newspeak from the party members eventualy, but the party members are Big Brother's main focus because they are the biggest threat since they are more intelligent and hold more power.

I disagree here, in the book one powerful moment is when Winston realizes that the Proles are "human" and that he is not. The Proles kept their way of life and stayed ignorant. They have freedoms and ways of life that he does not. The Proles in a sense are "free", the Party gives them random things to make sure they are distracted with different things. The Proles are the people that weren't changed, Orwell is very critical of the Proles and in being so he is critical of human life today.

[The Atheist]

I disagree. But I suppose that is part of the fun of a book with so many hidden meanings. :) the things they are provided with keep them entertained and distracted to a point, but pornography and lottery is not enough to make someone ignore injustice. The proles are viewed as ignorant and by giving them things such as pornography and the lottery, the party members also view them as dirty and stupid, making it less likely that they would ever aid in the help of a prole revolt or pay attention to the suffering the proles go through. The proles are expected to learn newspeak from the party members eventualy, but the party members are Big Brother's main focus because they are the biggest threat since they are more intelligent and hold more power.

I'll give you a "right on the money" here!

[Enjoi.]

I'll give you a "right on the money" here!

I disagree for the same reason given earlier.

Quote=Me
I disagree here, in the book one powerful moment is when Winston realizes that the Proles are "human" and that he is not. The Proles kept their way of life and stayed ignorant. They have freedoms and ways of life that he does not. The Proles in a sense are "free", the Party gives them random things to make sure they are distracted with different things. The Proles are the people that weren't changed, Orwell is very critical of the Proles and in being so he is critical of human life today.

[The Atheist]

The Proles are the people that weren't changed, Orwell is very critical of the Proles and in being so he is critical of human life today.

Repeating it won't help.

You're certainly welcome to read it how you like, but I think you're mistaking Orwell's points.

[jellolover07]

I disagree here, in the book one powerful moment is when Winston realizes that the Proles are "human" and that he is not. The Proles kept their way of life and stayed ignorant. They have freedoms and ways of life that he does not. The Proles in a sense are "free", the Party gives them random things to make sure they are distracted with different things. The Proles are the people that weren't changed, Orwell is very critical of the Proles and in being so he is critical of human life today.

Winston and Orwell's view of the proles is not the same as Big Brother's. Big Brother gives them their freedom because they are not viewed as a threat, Winston and Orwell feel that the proles are a threat because they keep there freedoms.

[Enjoi.]

Winston and Orwell's view of the proles is not the same as Big Brother's. Big Brother gives them their freedom because they are not viewed as a threat, Winston and Orwell feel that the proles are a threat because they keep there freedoms.

They give them freedoms so they have no reason to revolt. If these freedoms were stripped from them wouldn't the Proles finally have a reason to perform a coup d’état? The Proles aren't a threat to the Party only while they are distracted. If they weren't and they had all the same rules as Party members how is that helping the Party?


Winston and Orwell feel that the proles are a threat because they keep there freedoms.

Could you help me out on this part and elaborate because I'm not sure i see where your coming from.

[Enjoi.]

Repeating it won't help.

You're certainly welcome to read it how you like, but I think you're mistaking Orwell's points.

It won't help, but i think i summed up my view on it in that post. The Party members orchestrating mini-revolts (the Brotherhood) needs the Proles. They don't view them as dirty and stupid because they need them. Winston knows that they are the critical part in a coup. Also the "fear" aspect every keeps referring to. I don't like that answer. Orwell points the fear thing out. He yells it at us. We know there is fear involve, but there is more than just fear. Fear is the "textbook answer" because just about anyone can pick this book up and read three or four chapters and yell, "FEAR WAS THE REASON". It's so easy to say fear and be done, but please look deeper than fear and stop yelling that it was all fear at me.

[jellolover07]

They give them freedoms so they have no reason to revolt. If these freedoms were stripped from them wouldn't the Proles finally have a reason to perform a coup d’état? The Proles aren't a threat to the Party only while they are distracted. If they weren't and they had all the same rules as Party members how is that helping the Party?


Could you help me out on this part and elaborate because I'm not sure i see where your coming from.

If the only reason for the freedoms is to keep them distracted, then why don't party members have these rights to keep them from revolting?


Because the proles have freedoms they are not watched as closely and have the ability to revolt, if they wanted to.

[bazarov]

But why would Proles rebel? Why?

[lukgem]

is not newsspeak meant for the party first,then some of it may find its way into proletarian language through newspapers,childrens books and general literature.
did orwell not make the point to that if there was no word for say,uprising then how could that feeling manifest its self in the real world.
the whole concept of the control of language through diction is fascinating as you could talk to a child or an intellectual on the subject and have great discourse.
does txt language,m8 gr8 l8 fit in to the erosion of the written word?
do political soundbites have a role?
do words like positive discrimination(could be double think?)
and finalsolution fit into newsspeak?
is it our fault that language does not always carry the gravitas it should?
infant mortality up 10%,does that really convey the human misery it should or do we really have to think about what the reality of each word means?its very easy to become desensitised to language.

[The Atheist]

The Party members orchestrating mini-revolts (the Brotherhood) needs the Proles. They don't view them as dirty and stupid because they need them.

No.

There is no Brotherhood. That's why O'B gave W the book - it's fantasy. There are no revolutions, mini or otherwise.


It's so easy to say fear and be done, but please look deeper than fear and stop yelling that it was all fear at me.

I think you're mistaking "force" for "fear".

A man may take your freedom with a gun and no fear need be involved - it's a simple choice, comply or die.

[Enjoi.]

But why would Proles rebel? Why?

Thank you bazarov, finally someone who understands. There is no rason the Proles would want to rebel. Period.


I think you're mistaking "force" for "fear".

A man may take your freedom with a gun and no fear need be involved - it's a simple choice, comply or die.

I'm speaking of the way the Party keeps the Proles under control. Not the original takeover. What has been said many times is the Party controls the Proles with the fear aspect. The bombings and the vaporizations, this isn't why the Proles are under control. Sure they may have some fearfulness, but it's way in the back of their minds. They are being distracted and given the things they need at certain times. This keeps them satisfied so they have absolutely no reason to rebel.

[skisurfer11]

I sort of agree with you, the prols really have no reason to rebel but if some members of the party like Winston was against big brother they could get together and use the prols the bigest part of the population to help them revolt against BB. Why I'm not sure! Contradictory to what I just said I also belive that the party has created an almost flawless system the inner party has all the good stuff then the outer party does most of the work an is mostly happy with there work while they are either to scard or don't want to rebel. The prols are kept not knowing and content with how they are. BB could always stay in power. Throughout history there is always some kind I change. That's really the only reason they would want to rebel or have a change in power. Any more thoughts on this sort of theory? Mabey there really isn't an answer to why they would want to rebel!!

[bazarov]

Proles could never understand story about Party; like in stupid movie Matrix, so I doubt they would rebel for someone.

[jellolover07]

But why would Proles rebel? Why?

Because they live in poverty while party members have all the power. Also, they are looked down at, frowned upon, and ignored by society. Ignorance doesn't equal stupidity, I think you are forgetting this. The proles are not educated about the government, but they can see that they are low class and they must know that there is something better out there. The proles are lucky, the government has brainwashed them less than the party members. Proles still feel emotions, and they remember bits of the past that party members have forgotten (for example, the church song). If they can feel emotions, they can feel anger, and anger is the emotion necessary for revolution. I think that the party is stupid for not realizing this.

[bazarov]

Because they live in poverty while party members have all the power. Also, they are looked down at, frowned upon, and ignored by society. Ignorance doesn't equal stupidity, I think you are forgetting this. The proles are not educated about the government, but they can see that they are low class and they must know that there is something better out there. The proles are lucky, the government has brainwashed them less than the party members. Proles still feel emotions, and they remember bits of the past that party members have forgotten (for example, the church song). If they can feel emotions, they can feel anger, and anger is the emotion necessary for revolution. I think that the party is stupid for not realizing this.

They don't realize they they are poor, they accept things like they are without thinking what could happen or could it be any different.
They don't see song about church as a prove of past, for them it's just a song; like I am walking down the street singing Brothers in Arms. I could sing something else, would it make any difference? Is it proving anything?

[The Atheist]

like in stupid movie Matrix,

Wow, did you watch all of it?

10/15 minutes was all I could stomach before I walked out.

[bazarov]

Wow, did you watch all of it?

10/15 minutes was all I could stomach before I walked out.

25min...It was on TV, it was free :lol:

[The Atheist]

25min...It was on TV, it was free :lol:

Bah.

So many people told me what a great film it was that I paid to go and see it.

Idiots!

:(