Can spirituality help overcome the current tpirituyaension?

[blazeofglory]

The west has been challenged today and more and more people are traumatized with no rescue. Today's financial crisis is a big trial and more and more people are finding no way out.

We know more and more people are committing suicides.

I want to ask a question that has pertinence in today' s context more than ever before.

Why do we want wealth?

Most of us want too much wealth. Too much wealth will not make us happy. It makes our ego swell and we will develop a kind of complex and feel distinguished from those who have less of it as a matter of fact.

We forget the fact that the earth is commonwealth. It must be shared equitably. I may sound communistic. But they failed. They are good in theory but not in practice as a matter of fact. In practice communism births dictators and history endorses this fact.

In fact it is spirituality that may help us. Spirituality has been confused with religions. But both are diametrically opposite things.

we must redefine spirituality. Spirituality has to do with understanding. We must understand the fact that the planet belongs to all.

The idea of nation and nationalism is flawed. It is the idea of nation and nationalism that has birthed terrorism and fundamentalism.

There are million acres of virgin and arable lands at one end of the globe but at the other end millions and millions go hungry, famished. No piece or mass of land belongs to a particular individual and all must be shared.

The earth is too big and has the resources to feed and clothe all, and no one here has to hungry and naked.

All we need is sensibility and we almost lost it. Spirituality helps us regain it. Or to put it differently, spirituality restore it to us.

Spirituality is different from humanity. Humanity serves only human beings, whereas spirituality generates in us compassion for all and goes across both animate and inanimate beings on earth.

In today' crisis nothing can be a better antidote than spirituality. Spirituality helps us endure all vicissitudes in life.

[RG57]

blazeof glory you make great sense, but while there is one greedy man in the world willing to step on others for their greed lust you never get the utopia that many millions dream of.

[weltanschauung]

it all started when this monkey found this bone...
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w95/HominidDesign/ape.jpg

[NikolaiI]

Diametrically opposed?? How?

This universe, all we can perceive, is more or less material. Everything physical and mental is material. The forces in this universe are the material energy-- physics, gravity, nature, all are the energies and laws of the material universe. Beyond the material universe however there is an unlimited, eternal spiritual universe. Anything pertaining to this is spiritual. We have senses, a physical body, a mind, intelligence, ego; all of these things, subtle or not, are material. Our spirit soul is not material however, it is transcendental. Religion is the path to God, in its true meaning, which is exactly the same as spiritual. Religion simply means the way of the soul. Anything else which is based on things in the material universe is not spiritual but material.

[blazeofglory]

Religious mindsets are divisive and disintegrative, schematic in substance and we all are not oblivious of the fact that greater wars were fought in the name of or for securing religious dogmas than for any other ideologies. Even now we have warring people, terrorists, militants and zealots who cause wars and furors and disharmonies when surges of religious feelings or sentiments engage their minds.

I am not against the religiosity that is close to spirituality and that spawn spiritually guided individuals. Of course we need spirituality today more than ever before in times of doubt and unwarranted materialisms and indignities consuming human souls. I am not against the messages of Christ, the Buddha, Krishna. All that I want to say is they were not religious in the manner we take religions today.

Hitler was a role model in propping religious aficionados and fanatics. We do not want the kind of religions Hitler tried to proliferate, nor the types of spiritualities modern fundamentalists breed rooted in religious extremisms. We want abundance of tolerance and benevolence, and there is a dearth of all these substances in modern religions. We need a prophet now who can distill or reline modern religions the way the Buddha did 2500 years ago.

[NikolaiI]

Religious mindsets are divisive and disintegrative, schematic in substance and we all are not oblivious of the fact that greater wars were fought in the name of or for securing religious dogmas than for any other ideologies. Even now we have warring people, terrorists, militants and zealots who cause wars and furors and disharmonies when surges of religious feelings or sentiments engage their minds.

I am not against the religiosity that is close to spirituality and that spawn spiritually guided individuals. Of course we need spirituality today more than ever before in times of doubt and unwarranted materialisms and indignities consuming human souls. I am not against the messages of Christ, the Buddha, Krishna. All that I want to say is they were not religious in the manner we take religions today.

Hitler was a role model in propping religious aficionados and fanatics. We do not want the kind of religions Hitler tried to proliferate, nor the types of spiritualities modern fundamentalists breed rooted in religious extremisms. We want abundance of tolerance and benevolence, and there is a dearth of all these substances in modern religions. We need a prophet now who can distill or reline modern religions the way the Buddha did 2500 years ago.

We don't need any new prophet. Things will work out. Why? Because God is the supreme controler. All is ultimately caused by His plan.

[blazeofglory]

We don't need any new prophet. Things will work out. Why? Because God is the supreme controler. All is ultimately caused by His plan.

But the fact is god keeps mum. We need someone that levels the gap and diminishes the distance between God and ourselves. You must agree that there is disharmony in the world. All are expecting a new dawning, a dawn of hope, peace and order. The current financial meltdown exacerbates the disarrays and panics. We opt for a salvager, rescuer. God is Nirguna, un-manifest. Do not you know why Rama, Krishna, Jesus, the Buddha got incarnated? And the Puranas prophesizes the birth of Kalki. There are accounts of a second coming of Jesus as well.

Nikolai, we dreadfully pine for a savoir. God in heaven does not help. Or else why they had to be incarnated? Now everything is going topsy-turvy, upside down. We want correction. Someone to take counteractive or restorative measures. And at this critical juncture, un-wanting a prophet is something inconsistent

[RG57]

Religious mindsets are divisive and disintegrative, schematic in substance and we all are not oblivious of the fact that greater wars were fought in the name of or for securing religious dogmas than for any other ideologies. Even now we have warring people, terrorists, militants and zealots who cause wars and furors and disharmonies when surges of religious feelings or sentiments engage their minds.

I am not against the religiosity that is close to spirituality and that spawn spiritually guided individuals. Of course we need spirituality today more than ever before in times of doubt and unwarranted materialisms and indignities consuming human souls. I am not against the messages of Christ, the Buddha, Krishna. All that I want to say is they were not religious in the manner we take religions today.

Hitler was a role model in propping religious aficionados and fanatics. We do not want the kind of religions Hitler tried to proliferate, nor the types of spiritualities modern fundamentalists breed rooted in religious extremisms. We want abundance of tolerance and benevolence, and there is a dearth of all these substances in modern religions. We need a prophet now who can distill or reline modern religions the way the Buddha did 2500 years ago.

When Christ, Buddha and Krishna began their teachings they were pure and unsullied by man. Since then man has manipulated and tarnished their teachings so that it is now abused and no longer contains the full purity that it did. You mention Hitler, he is the perfect example of how he took something that is pure and beneficial to mankind can be turned to a perverse and manipulative evil disguised as good.

[NikolaiI]

But the fact is god keeps mum. We need someone that levels the gap and diminishes the distance between God and ourselves. You must agree that there is disharmony in the world. All are expecting a new dawning, a dawn of hope, peace and order. The current financial meltdown exacerbates the disarrays and panics. We opt for a salvager, rescuer. God is Nirguna, un-manifest. Do not you know why Rama, Krishna, Jesus, the Buddha got incarnated? And the Puranas prophesizes the birth of Kalki. There are accounts of a second coming of Jesus as well.

Nikolai, we dreadfully pine for a savoir. God in heaven does not help. Or else why they had to be incarnated? Now everything is going topsy-turvy, upside down. We want correction. Someone to take counteractive or restorative measures. And at this critical juncture, un-wanting a prophet is something inconsistent

In the immense scope of reality outside our daily lives-- in the scope of human history, if not of anything even greater-- we can find our answer. We don't need prophets or direct intervention from God for one reason. That reason is that we can turn toward God in this life. No matter where you exist in the material universe, you can always turn to God, and realize that the material world-- consisting of material egos-- is illusion.

We don't need God to give us purity, peace, or power. We need to turn toward God in our lives-- make our inner qualities reflect our inner law; and manifest that light and law in our lives. We can't passively ask for deliverance. We have to act with the desire to please God, and do nothing but this, and then only will we have peace. We wish to know peace-- and I cannot tell you what will happen, there are no guarantees. But I know beyond doubt that there will be peace. God says, in all religous traditions, it is recorded that He said, "Do not fear." God tells us to not fear, because we are beloved by Him.

I know that for some people, this is not something they like to hear. But if there's anyway I could convey it, that would be the most important thing. I know what it's like to be an atheist- I was one, because I didn't see physical evidence. But I had too many unexplainable experiences. Or rather, experiences which were very explainable, simply not with an atheistic position. In fact I did understand exactly what I was seeing when I saw these things. Inside us- I know it by simply two different terms, but inside us is either a; buddha-nature, or b; the divine soul. I believe both are accurate. Inside us is buddha-nature, this means akin to Buddha, and when this nature is realized, there is no suffering, and we only work to relieve suffering of others. Down to the deepest core of us, psychologically, are the building blocks of enligthenment. We are also a divine soul. The realizations are the same. Only, different colours, if you will. So this is why I believe in peace-- because this is what we, as humans-- as souls-- are, and are capable of.

It doesn't have to happen immediately. There's been an upward trend for millenia. The reason these things happen is because its our nature, and its the nature of the universe we exist in. Beauty, happiness, love, these exist in every age. And in their perfection comes truth or understanding.

[blazeofglory]

No matter where you exist in the material universe, you can always turn to God, and realize that the material world-- consisting of material egos-- is illusion.



To say the material world is illusion is easy but in reality we are part of it. Ultimately all of us no matter whether we are saints or sinners we all are equals. What we call sins are worldly attributes and nothing more. If you can understand the deepest meaning of Brahma you will understand God, saints and sinners in its entirety.

That is why those who can understand all these things live with humility in life. They do not speak up what they realize and simply live being Brahmamaya.

[NikolaiI]

Yes but the material world is illusion in this way; that it needs to be there at all. Earth is not the only world in the material universe; there are heavenly and hell planets also. Those are still in the material universe. The illusion is that anyone need suffer- that they need to exist in a place of suffering. Why do we not exist where there is not suffering? It's because we're enslaved to these ideas of ego; we're enslaved by the material energy and work for sense gratification, or we work in the mode of passion, ignorance or goodness. The illusion is beyond comprehension, because it is outside of our mode of valuing. We will never approach it because we can never escape it. But outside of the illusion, there is no suffering. We are akin to everything in the universe. God created this unvierse; we are actually near the higher places in the universe. We have such great desire. We almost eclipse the desire of God, but the desire of God is infinite. Still we can almost coprehend the infinte. When you contemplate the infinite you realize you cannot escape it.

[blazeofglory]

There are some differences in opinions between us, for I believe in non duality, that is, I do not take this world different from the cosmos. When this cosmos, or God, or Nirguna Brahma balloons we are here, everything, both animate and inanimate things, dualities seem discernible, but when God or supreme entity pulls in everything then all else will be at one with it. I do not agree that the universe is material and God or divine is for that matter immaterial, and dualities are very superficial and all become one. We are the universe and God and man both form parts of the same source, and we all return to the same source. All tributaries will stream or flow together to the same big ocean in the end.

Nikolai, let us not have the idea that we are just superior or closer to God than the rest who do not pray or who do not advocate for God, and God has no partiality. Whether or not you pray he will not have a partial or discriminatory attitude. How can a father be different or loving his children partially? To God all his children whether one is foolish or intelligent.

What we talk about is not illusion, and our existence is not illusion. There is confusion and we condition ourselves or project ideas from books or discourses. With all our eruditions, that we got from some particular Gurus or discoursers, we are not better off than those farmers and laborers in the poorest countries who never can have access to books, education, not to mention the technologies we enjoy. When they take everything as realities. They even worship mountains, rivers. We at ceremonies have to worship the Sun God. We worship cows, dogs, crows, oxen, serpents. How do you say they are illusory things? Are they illusions or Maya?
Pervade everything, penetrate deeper and deeper and go beyond all coatings or veneers of what you see breaking barriers at the core is all Brahma and nothing other than Brahma. Nikolai realize this.

[NikolaiI]

There are some differences in opinions between us, for I believe in non duality, that is, I do not take this world different from the cosmos. When this cosmos, or God, or Nirguna Brahma balloons we are here, everything, both animate and inanimate things, dualities seem discernible, but when God or supreme entity pulls in everything then all else will be at one with it. I do not agree that the universe is material and God or divine is for that matter immaterial, and dualities are very superficial and all become one. We are the universe and God and man both form parts of the same source, and we all return to the same source. All tributaries will stream or flow together to the same big ocean in the end.

Nikolai, let us not have the idea that we are just superior or closer to God than the rest who do not pray or who do not advocate for God, and God has no partiality. Whether or not you pray he will not have a partial or discriminatory attitude. How can a father be different or loving his children partially? To God all his children whether one is foolish or intelligent.

What we talk about is not illusion, and our existence is not illusion. There is confusion and we condition ourselves or project ideas from books or discourses. With all our eruditions, that we got from some particular Gurus or discoursers, we are not better off than those farmers and laborers in the poorest countries who never can have access to books, education, not to mention the technologies we enjoy. When they take everything as realities. They even worship mountains, rivers. We at ceremonies have to worship the Sun God. We worship cows, dogs, crows, oxen, serpents. How do you say they are illusory things? Are they illusions or Maya?
Pervade everything, penetrate deeper and deeper and go beyond all coatings or veneers of what you see breaking barriers at the core is all Brahma and nothing other than Brahma. Nikolai realize this.

Blaze, don't worry about whether I am humble or not. It doesn't really concern our discussion.

I don't believe Brahman is the core of all and there is nothing but Brahman. Some philosophers hold this tenant, they are called Mayavadis. For the mayavadi or impersonalist, there is nothing greater than merging one's essence into the brahmajyoti, or impersonal, brahman T. For the bhakta, or devotee, however, much much higher- incomparably higher- is to serve the Supreme Lord in devotional service. The Lord is not impersonal, nirguna, but is guna-nirguna, full of all auspicious qualities. The lord is unembodied but this doesn't mean He has no form, it means He has no material form.

To quote Sri Isopanisad, Mantra Eight, "Such a person must factually know the greatest of all, the Personality of Godhead, who is unembodied, omniscient, beyond reproach, without veins, pure and uncontaminated, the self-sufficient philosopher who has been fulfilling everyone's desire since time immemorial."

And the first of Srila Prabhupada's purport to this verse:


Here is a description of the transcendental and eternal form of the Absolute Personality of Godhead. The Supreme Lord is not formless. He has His own transcendental form, which is not at all similar to the forms of the mundane world. The forms of the living entities in this world are embodied in material nature, and they work like any other material machine. The anatomy of a material body must have a mechanical construction with veins and so forth, but the transcendetal body of the Supreme Lord has nothing like veins. It is clearly stated here that He is unembodied, which means that there is no difference between His body and His soul. Nor is He forced to accept a body according to the laws of nature, as we are. In materially conditioned life, the soul is different from the gross embodiment and subtle mind. For the Supreme Lord, however, there is never any such difference between Him and His body and mind. He is the Complete Whole, and His mind, body and He Himself are all one and the same.


I allowed myself to interfene again
Nikolaii I love your sincerety even if I disagree with you on lots of points
Yes we can know GOD and get to the state of belief in HIM because the need to know GOD and worship HIM is inherent in us and there's a beautiful saying for Sayed Qutub that I believe it's correct and I can see its' manifestation today"He who refuses to worship GOD will definitely worship a creature of GOD's creation"
but by ourselves we won't be able to figure out a crieterion that judges our actions we need a religion that tells us how to worship GOD and and tells what GOD wants from us,tells us about the history of humanity a religion that has an answer for every question we have,a religion that tells us the things we can't figure out by ourselves...so there must be a message that GOD wanted to for it to be the eternal messege,

I'm not sure exactly what your main point is. I take it from your name you are Muslim. I am not. I believe in religion but not in creeds-- Hindu, Muslim, Christian, these are all bodily labels. The soul knows no label, and people of different race are not different spiritually, in fact the souls of humans are not different than the souls of other living entities. We do not have the right to act like we are God of this world- and kill other creatures because we are stronger. This is wrong, and as long as we do so we will suffer by the laws of nature for it.

[planet earth]

We don't need God to give us purity, peace, or power. We need to turn toward God in our lives-- make our inner qualities reflect our inner law; and manifest that light and law in our lives. We can't passively ask for deliverance. We have to act with the desire to please God, and do nothing but this, and then only will we have peace. We wish to know peace-- and I cannot tell you what will happen, there are no guarantees. But I know beyond doubt that there will be peace. God says, in all religous traditions, it is recorded that He said, "Do not fear." God tells us to not fear, because we are beloved by Him.


I love your words. The exactly conform to the very true belief in Allah. I am not sure if you know that one of Allah's names "Splendid Appelations" is "THE PEACE". It is only when you reach the state of peace of mind, and soul that you know that you have reached Allah, "THe Peace". It is true that He is with us all of the time, and inspite of that we do not try to contact him. Contacting him, directly leads us to Him and to His Mansion, to which He invites us to "The Mansion of Peace".

[planet earth]

I'm not sure exactly what your main point is. I take it from your name you are Muslim. I am not. I believe in religion but not in creeds-- Hindu, Muslim, Christian, these are all bodily labels. The soul knows no label, and people of different race are not different spiritually, in fact the souls of humans are not different than the souls of other living entities. We do not have the right to act like we are God of this world- and kill other creatures because we are stronger. This is wrong, and as long as we do so we will suffer by the laws of nature for it.

It is true that the soul has not label. The soul is the common sense inside us that finds Allah and sees Him in his cosmic manifestations. The soul submits innately to God. The body however, imprisions that soul and prevents it from flying to its Creator and prevents it from arriving at Him because it is immersed in the very earthly so called pleasures. The soul is a heavenly order. When Muhammad, was asked what the soul is, he was ordered to define it as "Say the soul is an order from my Lord". This heavenly order is nourished by heavenly desires, and is watered by Love of the creator. It is when the body with all its materialism submits to the soul who had already submitted to its Creator that the only truth in this World become clear.

This submission is certainley not a label, it is a state. In Arabic, submission means Islam. Therefore, Islam is not simply a label. It is a statement of a fact of the soul that worships and is devoted to Allah despite its imprisonment of the body that sometimes behaves against His Will.

This soul is not allowed to kill any one or to think of itself as god. It like all other souls are mere worshippers of Allah. Islam, which speaks of this soul carries not orders of killing or war. Nikolai, if you go to the Quran, you will find that Peace was mentioned 40 times, while war was only mentioned 4 times there, only to explain, war ethics.

The true struggle or war is against oneself that prevents the body from conforming to the soul and thus becomes a barrier to reach Allah.

A Muslim is only requested to convey what he knows about Allah, just as you are. If this was not true, I wouldn't have been on this forum discussing and talking. Islam is built upon negotiation. Believe me it is not bad as you think. And it is not a label it is a golden medal upon the hearts and souls of those who manage to understand it correctly and act within its true teachings.

[planet earth]

We know more and more people are committing suicides.


We forget the fact that the earth is commonwealth. It must be shared equitably. I may sound communistic. But they failed. They are good in theory but not in practice as a matter of fact. In practice communism births dictators and history endorses this fact.

In fact it is spirituality that may help us. Spirituality has been confused with religions. But both are diametrically opposite things.

we must redefine spirituality. Spirituality has to do with understanding. We must understand the fact that the planet belongs to all.

Spirituality is different from humanity. Humanity serves only human beings, whereas spirituality generates in us compassion for all and goes across both animate and inanimate beings on earth.

In today' crisis nothing can be a better antidote than spirituality. Spirituality helps us endure all vicissitudes in life.


Hi blaze glory

I wanted to comment on these points exactly

I wanted to introduce a concept that you may already very well know, but just in case you do not, it is that concept of the "The news of the Absent". Let me tell you what I know about that this concept. There are three sorts of Absent. First, History. Things that happened, and we are sure they happened but what we did not attend. However, we are informed about from trusted resourced and thus we believe they happened. The Quran is full of news from this type.

The other is Absent but present and occuring right now. It is the fact that while I am writing this reply, I am sure that many other events going on, even in the house next to me but I do not know they are happening, but this does not mean that the only thing that I am doing is happening. THe other things are definetly different than the thing I am doing. THis is where the importance of news comes from. They tell us what was happeneing and according to us is absent and was happening whilst we were involved in something else. Cameras managed to portray to us what was happening although we lived not the actual events.

The final sort of absent, is the future. THat is there and is a fact, that is very well known, but not to us. To someone else, to the actual Author of our biography, that has written our book from page one to the end.

It is this belief in the three sorts of absent, that raises the soul. What we define as material, is not only material, there are other things that are material but we don't consider them material only because we did not see them. However, this does not mean they are not there and that they could not be sensed. THey could be sensed but not with the substances we are made from. Raising the soul and transending with it may help sensing these things with out seeing us with our eyes.

I am not sure if I managed to convey this point.

THe other point is the common wealth. Yes the earth is a common wealth in terms that it belongs to its Creator. We belong to him as well, and thus we are all a common wealth of Allah. He and only He distributes this common wealth to his common wealth as He wishes, on one condition, not define wealth in terms of money only. Wealth is a very vast word. Some are wealthy in health and some are wealthy in money, some are in spiritualitiy and some are wealthy in the balance they maintain in everything. But because his the Right, The Just and the Fair, Total wealth is given to everyone that inclines to His Majesty and Supreme oneness

Did that make sense?

[NikolaiI]

It is true that the soul has not label. The soul is the common sense inside us that finds Allah and sees Him in his cosmic manifestations. The soul submits innately to God. The body however, imprisions that soul and prevents it from flying to its Creator and prevents it from arriving at Him because it is immersed in the very earthly so called pleasures. The soul is a heavenly order. When Muhammad, was asked what the soul is, he was ordered to define it as "Say the soul is an order from my Lord". This heavenly order is nourished by heavenly desires, and is watered by Love of the creator. It is when the body with all its materialism submits to the soul who had already submitted to its Creator that the only truth in this World become clear.

This submission is certainley not a label, it is a state. In Arabic, submission means Islam. Therefore, Islam is not simply a label. It is a statement of a fact of the soul that worships and is devoted to Allah despite its imprisonment of the body that sometimes behaves against His Will.

This soul is not allowed to kill any one or to think of itself as god. It like all other souls are mere worshippers of Allah. Islam, which speaks of this soul carries not orders of killing or war. Nikolai, if you go to the Quran, you will find that Peace was mentioned 40 times, while war was only mentioned 4 times there, only to explain, war ethics.

The true struggle or war is against oneself that prevents the body from conforming to the soul and thus becomes a barrier to reach Allah.

A Muslim is only requested to convey what he knows about Allah, just as you are. If this was not true, I wouldn't have been on this forum discussing and talking. Islam is built upon negotiation. Believe me it is not bad as you think. And it is not a label it is a golden medal upon the hearts and souls of those who manage to understand it correctly and act within its true teachings.

Ah, that's good then. :) Christians are also requested by Jesus to love God completely.
Sriman George Harrison put it very eloquently: "Many things in life can wait, but the search for God cannot wait."
You call Him Allah, I call Him Krishna, but I also call Him Ram, Govinda, Gopala, Damodara. He is unlimited and has unlimited Names. There is nothing more holy than His name, which can cure all kinds of sinful reactions.

I believe in the same vein as Harrison. If you put it in mathematical terms it is the finite discovering the infinite. The Lord exists in the hearts of all living entities. And the living entities exist in the Lord, since all is His internal or external energy. This world is part of the external energy of the Lord, and it is only 1/4th of all of creation. There's an example given-- an elephant cannot swim upriver, even though he is very large and strong. Yet a fish, who is much smaller, can swim upriver very easily. What is the reason? The fish takes shelter of the river. In the same way, we should be devotees and take shelter of the Lord. If we do then the ocean of material existence becomes like a small puddle, and we can cross it very easily. Most of this society is simply involved in sense gratification or some other aggrandizement of the ego. But this materialistic ego is false, it is illusion. So anyway, though we are of different cultures or religions, I am very glad to meet you and commend you for your words. You are doing a very good thing because you understand well about the soul.

[planet earth]

Ah, that's good then. :) Christians are also requested by Jesus to love God completely.
Sriman George Harrison put it very eloquently: "Many things in life can wait, but the search for God cannot wait."
You call Him Allah, I call Him Krishna, but I also call Him Ram, Govinda, Gopala, Damodara. He is unlimited and has unlimited Names. There is nothing more holy than His name, which can cure all kinds of sinful reactions.

I believe in the same vein as Harrison. If you put it in mathematical terms it is the finite discovering the infinite. The Lord exists in the hearts of all living entities. And the living entities exist in the Lord, since all is His internal or external energy. This world is part of the external energy of the Lord, and it is only 1/4th of all of creation. There's an example given-- an elephant cannot swim upriver, even though he is very large and strong. Yet a fish, who is much smaller, can swim upriver very easily. What is the reason? The fish takes shelter of the river. In the same way, we should be devotees and take shelter of the Lord. If we do then the ocean of material existence becomes like a small puddle, and we can cross it very easily. Most of this society is simply involved in sense gratification or some other aggrandizement of the ego. But this materialistic ego is false, it is illusion. So anyway, though we are of different cultures or religions, I am very glad to meet you and commend you for your words. You are doing a very good thing because you understand well about the soul.


Ok Nikolai, I think the only difference we are speaking about is merely about names.

In Islam Allah has a number of infinite names and attributes. Some of them are well known to everyone, but others are discovered and are given a grant from Allah according to the level of spirituality one has achieved. Some of His well known splendid appellations are AL Rahman, meaning absolute mercy, Al Salaam as I told you meaning the Peace, Al Awwal meaning The first, Al Akhir ; The Last, Al ahad; the One and only Al malik; The King Al Nour; THe Al Thahir; The appearing light and so on, they are endless as you say. We also believe that he had disributed these attributes among us so someone who is merciful, usually took this mercy from the Attribute of Allah and so on.

Moreover, He is not only God of Human Beings, He is God of everything he created, and he created everything so He is Allah of everything.

Just as you said, as well concerning that we are immersed in Him and He is inside us. We have a similar belief, as in the Quran, Allah states that he is closer to us than our arteries and veins. He is that near, He is much closer than we imagine Him to be.

He is our Shelter for we have no one else. He is everything to us.

And He ordered us to pray to Him, 5 times a day, in these five times, we perform bodily actions along with spiritual or holy sayings, I believe this enables the body from being submitted to the soul. Allah says, that prayers stop one from sinning and doing evil, this is because, prayers involve the body in spiritual actions, and are a direct communication between us and Him. When we direct ourselves to the direction of prayer, There is HIS FACE as he states in the Quran as well.

You know Nikolai, what really makes me sad, Islam is totally misinterpreted and misunderstood, while the message was of peace, from The Peace, and the greeting was Peace, to message carrrier conveying Peace.

I am not sure if you've read "kill Yourself", that I wrote, you will find it in Personal Poetry, if you are interested in reading it. It tackles most of these isssues.

Finally, all muslims believe in what I believe. Islamic teachings have not changed. Maybe some of us don't have the complete awareness of how comprehensive Islam is , but believe me only a minority don't grasp the grandeur of the message.
If you don't mind would you tell me what religion are you embracing?

[NikolaiI]

Ok Nikolai, I think the only difference we are speaking about is merely about names.

In Islam Allah has a number of infinite names and attributes. Some of them are well known to everyone, but others are discovered and are given a grant from Allah according to the level of spirituality one has achieved. Some of His well known splendid appellations are AL Rahman, meaning absolute mercy, Al Salaam as I told you meaning the Peace, Al Awwal meaning The first, Al Akhir ; The Last, Al ahad; the One and only Al malik; The King Al Nour; THe Al Thahir; The appearing light and so on, they are endless as you say. We also believe that he had disributed these attributes among us so someone who is merciful, usually took this mercy from the Attribute of Allah and so on.

Moreover, He is not only God of Human Beings, He is God of everything he created, and he created everything so He is Allah of everything.

Just as you said, as well concerning that we are immersed in Him and He is inside us. We have a similar belief, as in the Quran, Allah states that he is closer to us than our arteries and veins. He is that near, He is much closer than we imagine Him to be.

He is our Shelter for we have no one else. He is everything to us.

And He ordered us to pray to Him, 5 times a day, in these five times, we perform bodily actions along with spiritual or holy sayings, I believe this enables the body from being submitted to the soul. Allah says, that prayers stop one from sinning and doing evil, this is because, prayers involve the body in spiritual actions, and are a direct communication between us and Him. When we direct ourselves to the direction of prayer, There is HIS FACE as he states in the Quran as well.

You know Nikolai, what really makes me sad, Islam is totally misinterpreted and misunderstood, while the message was of peace, from The Peace, and the greeting was Peace, to message carrrier conveying Peace.

I am not sure if you've read "kill Yourself", that I wrote, you will find it in Personal Poetry, if you are interested in reading it. It tackles most of these isssues.

Finally, all muslims believe in what I believe. Islamic teachings have not changed. Maybe some of us don't have the complete awareness of how comprehensive Islam is , but believe me only a minority don't grasp the grandeur of the message.
If you don't mind would you tell me what religion are you embracing?

Yes I read it, I thought it was good and I was interested in you since reading it. It is slightly reminiscient of Kabir, and you give some nice ideas in it. It's true that desparate depression and spiritual longing are somewhat similar. The key is to channel desparation into the desire to be spiritual, to eliminate all the inner causes of anxiety you can.

I am not really belong to a single religion. My mother's Presbyterian and I go to church with her, but I also go to the Hare Krishna temple here. The people at church are really good people, but the Vaishnava philosophy I find to be perfect. Vaisnava philosophy is based on the Vedas, and the Gita, which is the essence of the Vedass. Krishna is the source of the Vedas, and the purpose of them is to know Him. Krishna spoke Bhagavad-Gita to Arjuna, and so it is Absolute and perfect, being the words of God Himself.

The philosophy is very simple. Krishna says, in Chapter 18 verse 66 of the Gita, "Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear."

sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaḿ śaraṇaḿ vraja
ahaḿ tvāḿ sarva-pāpebhyo
mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

sarva-dharman means all varieties of religion. So therefore true dharma is simply to surrender to Krishna. The essence of Bhagavad-Gita teaches bhakti-yoga, devotional yoga, or work in Krishna consciousness. The idea is that the eternal parts of the whole, the living entities, should serve the Complete Whole, as that is there eternal, natural function. Just like in a physical body the parts of the body should serve the whole. Therefore it's the only thing that makes sense to me. So the process of bhakti-yoga is to serve Krishna with all of one's actions.

Bhakti-yoga is different from other forms of philosophy because it is a philosophy of devotion. There are many impersonalists, or mayavadis, who do not believe in a supreme god. There are many philosophies whose system is that of trying to become God. But no one can become God, and also no one should even want to. I find mayavadi or impersonalist philosophy to be vague or ambiguous. For instance Buddhists. They have great ideas, but I am clueless as to what Buddhas consider to be the absolute authority. In my studies of Buddhism I have found passages like "The Buddha is equal to the cosmos," and "the Buddha is equal to the realm of reality," which would in my mind lead to enlightenment, but I don't find these to be understood by Buddhists today. Instead they will not approach the notion of God with a ten-foot pole. But these passages, as well as one which says "In each atom of the realms of the universe, there exist vast oceans of world systems," (from the Flower Ornament Sutra) would indicate there exists more to this universe than simple explanations and answers (such as, if there existed an infinite good God, there would not be suffering). Such passages indicate to me that Buddhism is not fully understood today.

[planet earth]

Yes I read it, I thought it was good and I was interested in you since reading it. It is slightly reminiscient of Kabir, and you give some nice ideas in it. It's true that desparate depression and spiritual longing are somewhat similar. The key is to channel desparation into the desire to be spiritual, to eliminate all the inner causes of anxiety you can.

I am not really belong to a single religion. My mother's Presbyterian and I go to church with her, but I also go to the Hare Krishna temple here. The people at church are really good people, but the Vaishnava philosophy I find to be perfect. Vaisnava philosophy is based on the Vedas, and the Gita, which is the essence of the Vedass. Krishna is the source of the Vedas, and the purpose of them is to know Him. Krishna spoke Bhagavad-Gita to Arjuna, and so it is Absolute and perfect, being the words of God Himself.

The philosophy is very simple. Krishna says, in Chapter 18 verse 66 of the Gita, "Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear."

sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaḿ śaraṇaḿ vraja
ahaḿ tvāḿ sarva-pāpebhyo
mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ



I am glad you liked Kill Yourself, as I told you before I tried to gather as much cosmic verses from the Quran and tried to sum their meanings up in the poem.

The verses you have placed are very similar as well to verses from the Quran, which I believe is the word of Allah. Surrender to me will ususlly read "itoni muslimeen", this is where the idea of Islam comes from I will deliver you from all sinful reactions, means "Atoob 3alikum wa ana al tawwab al Raheem" and finally "Don't fear" " la tahzan". Let me tell you that I believe that all religions have the same source; Allah.

This religion is based on surrendering to His will, meaning Islam. THe final upgrade came by his final prophet Muhammad, who delivered the same religon in an Arabic tongue. However, Muslims believe Muhammad, is a prophet only not a god, God is one and Only one.

Have you ever had a look at Islamic writings, or searched for information about Islam, or was your image about it the same as what is known in the west that it is a religion of terror?

[blp]

it all started when this monkey found this bone...


Darn bone.

[NikolaiI]

I am glad you liked Kill Yourself, as I told you before I tried to gather as much cosmic verses from the Quran and tried to sum their meanings up in the poem.

The verses you have placed are very similar as well to verses from the Quran, which I believe is the word of Allah. Surrender to me will ususlly read "itoni muslimeen", this is where the idea of Islam comes from I will deliver you from all sinful reactions, means "Atoob 3alikum wa ana al tawwab al Raheem" and finally "Don't fear" " la tahzan". Let me tell you that I believe that all religions have the same source; Allah.

This religion is based on surrendering to His will, meaning Islam. THe final upgrade came by his final prophet Muhammad, who delivered the same religon in an Arabic tongue. However, Muslims believe Muhammad, is a prophet only not a god, God is one and Only one.

Have you ever had a look at Islamic writings, or searched for information about Islam, or was your image about it the same as what is known in the west that it is a religion of terror?

That's actually very fascinating! Thank you for sharing that translation. I'll come back to this post again in the future to at least learn it a little.

I agree that God is the source of all religions, as well as all else. I would like to share a few words with you. Sriman George Harrison put it very well in an introduction to Krsna Book, which is actually a summarization of some scripture.


Everybody is looking for KRSNA.
Some don't realize that they are, but they are.
KRSNA is GOD, the Source of all that exists,
the Cause of all that is, was, or ever will be.
As God is unlimited, HE has many Names.
Allah-Buddha-Jehova-Rama:
All are Krsna, all are ONE.

There is a little more, I will send it to you in PM if you don't mind.

If you say everyone is looking for God, atheists will, sadly, scorn you and say they are not. The reason people are looking for God, even if they don't know it, is that God is the source of all that exists-- mainly relating to us, the source of all pleasure. It's said in the Gita that, although not desiring any material happiness, but simply desiring to please the Lord is the highest, if you desire some material happiness, you should go to Lord Krishna with this desire. All benedictions are ultimately bestowed by Him alone. As you say if we do not worship God we will worship one of His creation (I believe you said this..).

And the second part of the above quote is also very important. I don't know how it could be stated more truly or simply. I am very grateful to George for sharing this. It's the most perfect poetry ever written.

I would like to share two verses of scripture and then I'll sign off. The first is from the brahma-samhita, one of the oldest texts known to exist. The setting of the brahma-samhita is that it is the prayers of Brahma, the first created being, in glorifaciton of Krishna. He says in 5.1, "Krishna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes"

And one of the most important verses of the Gita is Chapter 10, v. 8; "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me."

Well, you know that I admired your poem. As I said it showed a great depth and sincerity, and it reminded me of Kabir. I know little of Islam except I knew about the praying, and a few other bits. I learned a little about it in school, and we had Muslim children in our school, there was an even a mosque near where I lived. The majority of Americans, I would assert, do not think Islam is a religion of terror. Those who are interested enough will find good and not-negative sources of information about it, and those not so interested would hopefully not think anything bad of it without reason. There is anti-Muslim sentiment but in the extreme cases it is only from the extremist part of our society, which does still exist.

[planet earth]

That's actually very fascinating! Thank you for sharing that translation. I'll come back to this post again in the future to at least learn it a little.

I agree that God is the source of all religions, as well as all else. I would like to share a few words with you. Sriman George Harrison put it very well in an introduction to Krsna Book, which is actually a summarization of some scripture.



There is a little more, I will send it to you in PM if you don't mind.

If you say everyone is looking for God, atheists will, sadly, scorn you and say they are not. The reason people are looking for God, even if they don't know it, is that God is the source of all that exists-- mainly relating to us, the source of all pleasure. It's said in the Gita that, although not desiring any material happiness, but simply desiring to please the Lord is the highest, if you desire some material happiness, you should go to Lord Krishna with this desire. All benedictions are ultimately bestowed by Him alone. As you say if we do not worship God we will worship one of His creation (I believe you said this..).

And the second part of the above quote is also very important. I don't know how it could be stated more truly or simply. I am very grateful to George for sharing this. It's the most perfect poetry ever written.

I would like to share two verses of scripture and then I'll sign off. The first is from the brahma-samhita, one of the oldest texts known to exist. The setting of the brahma-samhita is that it is the prayers of Brahma, the first created being, in glorifaciton of Krishna. He says in 5.1, "Krishna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes"

And one of the most important verses of the Gita is Chapter 10, v. 8; "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me."

Well, you know that I admired your poem. As I said it showed a great depth and sincerity, and it reminded me of Kabir. I know little of Islam except I knew about the praying, and a few other bits. I learned a little about it in school, and we had Muslim children in our school, there was an even a mosque near where I lived. The majority of Americans, I would assert, do not think Islam is a religion of terror. Those who are interested enough will find good and not-negative sources of information about it, and those not so interested would hopefully not think anything bad of it without reason. There is anti-Muslim sentiment but in the extreme cases it is only from the extremist part of our society, which does still exist.

Thank you for your sharing Nikolai. Well I believe Allah is the source of all religion and not all religions. Assuming that you and me are talking about the same Divine power but in different languages, then we must be speaking about the same religion. If His end target from religion is to worship Him and no one else, then the religion he sent is the same, that of submission of the soul, that I believe you embrace. It is the same for me but in its Arabic name, Islam. That is why there are many verses in the Quran that are misunderstood by others that interpret Islam to be an intolerant religion, simply because Allah states that the religion accepted before His sight is Islam, meaning surrender or submission in whatever language. Therefore, I believe that this whole universe should be worshipping one God, and that the God I am worshipping is yours and vice versa.

The other point is the verses you've quoted, that still do remind me of many Quranic verses, I will quote you the meaning of one in the last verse of Al-Israa (THE NIGHT JOURNEY) chapter.

Supplicate to "Allah" or supplicate to the "Rahman", through whichever you supplicate, He has the splendid appellations. And be not too loud in thy prayer nor speak it in too low a voice, but follow a way in-between".

Isn't this a very similar meaning to the above?

Regarding atheists, I think if they can imagine their country without a president, or King, then they can imagine this universe without a Divine power. Just as a country may be called a kingdom, if under the rule of a king, it has to have one king only. For it is a kingdom not a kingsdom. So it is neither no king or many kings. It is only one king with his government. Let me tell you that Allah is the King of the Universe while angels are the government, and his creations are the residents of the Kingdom, whom his caring eyes take good care of us. And if he created to us a universe so charming, then that is because he wants to remind us that Paradise in the after life is a much more beautiful place that we should try to achieve, through the rules of the kingdom. I think if they think this way, they should not find any trouble believing in Allah, to whom all love is and all submission is to, for we are but possessions of The Possessor.

And I also wanted to ask you about Kabir? what is it exactly. You know one of Allah's splendid appellations is Al-Kabir, meaning the very Big. And in the azan, the call for muslim prayer, the muazin; the caller for praying calls "Allah Akbar", stating Allah's greatness than any action we are involved in, to leave whatever and perform prayers.

One final question Nikolai, regarding prophet Muhammad, what do you consider him to be like?

[blazeofglory]

In fact today I see religion is in jeopardy, and people are turning away from religious beliefs in point of fact. I am that irreligious. However I have a choice, for instance I like Kabir, a great Indian poet who rose above all sects and religions to a height that even today people of different faiths follow the path he has tracked and he remain seamless and no religions could smear or color his mind and remained above communal thoughts that are sweeping across all people now.

Kabir believed in Nirguna, attributeless. I have no synonym in English. Sanskrit is a very developed and scientific language and no language can have exact words or surrogates in English.

He appealed to people of all religions, faiths. Both Muslims and Hindus follow the track he has shown and there is no air of communality. If we all follow his path I am sure we will find peace in this world teeming with brutality.

If we have followed him there would be less terrorism, violence and illness. But people today have passions, sentiments not for a good cause but for a wrong one. There is atrocity, violent activities and most choose to be so in their lives, something of fanaticism and fundamentalism.

Now let us read Kabir and follow his path, a path that raises us above narrow sentiments and the highest forms of humanity.

He was born centuries ago, and still he was non-conformist and secular. Who can be a better teacher in this age rent with violence.

I find him always appealing and his poems are full of inspirations.

[NikolaiI]

Thank you for your sharing Nikolai. Well I believe Allah is the source of all religion and not all religions. Assuming that you and me are talking about the same Divine power but in different languages, then we must be speaking about the same religion. If His end target from religion is to worship Him and no one else, then the religion he sent is the same, that of submission of the soul, that I believe you embrace. It is the same for me but in its Arabic name, Islam. That is why there are many verses in the Quran that are misunderstood by others that interpret Islam to be an intolerant religion, simply because Allah states that the religion accepted before His sight is Islam, meaning surrender or submission in whatever language. Therefore, I believe that this whole universe should be worshipping one God, and that the God I am worshipping is yours and vice versa.

The other point is the verses you've quoted, that still do remind me of many Quranic verses, I will quote you the meaning of one in the last verse of Al-Israa (THE NIGHT JOURNEY) chapter.

Supplicate to "Allah" or supplicate to the "Rahman", through whichever you supplicate, He has the splendid appellations. And be not too loud in thy prayer nor speak it in too low a voice, but follow a way in-between".

Isn't this a very similar meaning to the above?

Regarding atheists, I think if they can imagine their country without a president, or King, then they can imagine this universe without a Divine power. Just as a country may be called a kingdom, if under the rule of a king, it has to have one king only. For it is a kingdom not a kingsdom. So it is neither no king or many kings. It is only one king with his government. Let me tell you that Allah is the King of the Universe while angels are the government, and his creations are the residents of the Kingdom, whom his caring eyes take good care of us. And if he created to us a universe so charming, then that is because he wants to remind us that Paradise in the after life is a much more beautiful place that we should try to achieve, through the rules of the kingdom. I think if they think this way, they should not find any trouble believing in Allah, to whom all love is and all submission is to, for we are but possessions of The Possessor.

And I also wanted to ask you about Kabir? what is it exactly. You know one of Allah's splendid appellations is Al-Kabir, meaning the very Big. And in the azan, the call for muslim prayer, the muazin; the caller for praying calls "Allah Akbar", stating Allah's greatness than any action we are involved in, to leave whatever and perform prayers.

One final question Nikolai, regarding prophet Muhammad, what do you consider him to be like?

I was reading your post and I came across this; "Let me tell you that Allah is the King of the Universe while angels are the government" and I wanted to tell you that this is exactly the same as the demigods are; Brahma, Siva, Indra, etc., they are the Lord's administrators, in charge of various things such as the material energies. They are not what you might think of, like different gods, nothing like that; they are devotees and worshippers of Sri Vishnu-- completely surrendered souls, and also the perfect devotees. Exactly as you say- angels who are the government, or administrators.

I do believe as you, that there is one God. But I believe in different teachers and scriptures than you. For me, Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam are the authoritative scriptures, the two most important books we have. BG because it is the words of Krishna, and SB because it is about Him. And I don't follow Muhammad but rather the Sri Caitanya Gaudiya Math, which is a disciplic succession going back to Brahma and Krishna. I believe Brahma was the first or original living entity; and I also have great respect for such personalities as Narada and all the acaryas in the succession.

To be honest I don't know much about Muhammed except for my conversations with you and the little I knew about Islam before. I have a lot of respect for you because of what you've said about the nature of God and the soul, it seems valuable but I have certain differences of opinion. For instance I believe it's necessary to be a strict vegetarian, and that it's wrong to eat meat. I don't suppose Muslims are as well? I do believe completely in surrender of the soul, and, only to Sri Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I believe that as God is unlimited, He has many names. Allah-Buddha-JWHA-Rama: all are KRISHNA, all are ONE. But I have certain differences from you, as I said before. There are four requirements of a devotee; to not eat meat, avoid intoxication, gambling, and illicit sex. It's been said that not eating meat is the most important one of these, because if one eats meat then one will lose compassion.

Kabir was, as Blaze said, an Indian poet, who lived some centuries ago. He was not Hindu or Muslim, but he was revered by both. Some of his songs are here (http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sok/index.htm), translated by Rabindranath Tagore.

[planet earth]

I was reading your post and I came across this; "Let me tell you that Allah is the King of the Universe while angels are the government" and I wanted to tell you that this is exactly the same as the demigods are; Brahma, Siva, Indra, etc., they are the Lord's administrators, in charge of various things such as the material energies. They are not what you might think of, like different gods, nothing like that; they are devotees and worshippers of Sri Vishnu-- completely surrendered souls, and also the perfect devotees. Exactly as you say- angels who are the government, or administrators.

I do believe as you, that there is one God. But I believe in different teachers and scriptures than you. For me, Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam are the authoritative scriptures, the two most important books we have. BG because it is the words of Krishna, and SB because it is about Him. And I don't follow Muhammad but rather the Sri Caitanya Gaudiya Math, which is a disciplic succession going back to Brahma and Krishna. I believe Brahma was the first or original living entity; and I also have great respect for such personalities as Narada and all the acaryas in the succession.

To be honest I don't know much about Muhammed except for my conversations with you and the little I knew about Islam before. I have a lot of respect for you because of what you've said about the nature of God and the soul, it seems valuable but I have certain differences of opinion. For instance I believe it's necessary to be a strict vegetarian, and that it's wrong to eat meat. I don't suppose Muslims are as well? I do believe completely in surrender of the soul, and, only to Sri Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I believe that as God is unlimited, He has many names. Allah-Buddha-JWHA-Rama: all are KRISHNA, all are ONE. But I have certain differences from you, as I said before. There are four requirements of a devotee; to not eat meat, avoid intoxication, gambling, and illicit sex. It's been said that not eating meat is the most important one of these, because if one eats meat then one will lose compassion.

Kabir was, as Blaze said, an Indian poet, who lived some centuries ago. He was not Hindu or Muslim, but he was revered by both. Some of his songs are here (http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sok/index.htm), translated by Rabindranath Tagore.

you know, in the last three requirements of a devotee, we are the same. However, Muslims are not forbidden eating meat. It is "halal", but the meat must have certain requirements, and a during slaughter, the name of Allah must be mentioned before slaughter. I was just thinking of this issue yesterday and I wanted to ask you about it. But let me tell you that Allah, the compassionate, the merciful, would not order us to do an action that has no mercy. Believe me if slaughter conditions are all fulfilled the slaughtered animal will not feel pain. You know a very usual incident happens when I cook. If the knife is sharp I usually cut my fingers without even feeling the pain. I just find blood coming out and that is how I know I was hurt. The thing is human beings just don't carry out heavenly orders the way they should.

Concerning the angels, actually they are called "al Malaa al Aala", the supreme council, or something closer. They are ofcourse devotees of Allah and never his partners or companions.

Finally, Muhammad, the prophet I follow and I love. I really believe he deserves to be loved. If you read his biography you will not help loving him. He is so different and so true and so keen that people would worship Allah. I do not know why his image is being distorted all the time. But honestly I feel that I am so lucky to be one of his followers. As I told you before, he said he was sent to fulfil the most honorable of conduct. And Allah said about him We have not sent you but as Mercy to All-kind. This concludes that Mercy is the most honorable of conduct. I have a small writing about how he has worked Peace and mercy to the world. When I finish it, and if you do not mind, I will send it to you to read.

What urged me to write was that I discovered that many were writing books about him claiming that this was the truth about him, so I decided to read and represent the true truth about him.

He comprised all the characteristics of a devotee, submitting wholly to Allah, but this never meant that he isolated himself and left the world. He had to have moments of isolation, but otherwise he was everywhere serving everyone and keen that everyone was ok. He is treasure. sometimes I really hoped I lived during his time and was one of his comrades. He endured for us, lots of pain, only to make the name of Allah Supreme.