Sequence of punishments in Dante's Hell question??

[Jester]

I'm putting this in the gen lit section becuase i got the question out of dante's inferno, which i jsut finished reading, but if its deem religious the admin should move it.

At Canto thirty one, we get into the ninth circle of hell, the traitors circle, so far in the poem the punishments get worse as the crime gets worse, I'm not surprised that traitors are at the bottom, what caught my attention was the organization of the traitors, the outer circle on the frozen lack is traitors to family, then inward it goes, then to the country, then to guests and the to lords,

The only one that makes sense to me is that lords goes in the center most being traitor to god... but my problem was family on the outside, it seems to me that family should be the second one on the inside...

any comments about this?

[Bongitybongbong]

Yeah I think that it would be country, guests, family, lords because your country wouldn't mean much after life. Maybe guests would be more inward than family because guests are more rare or something.

[Sitaram]

Perhaps Dante had to make his work appealing to the political powers of his time, and patriotism must be placed over family and personal.

I am somehow reminded of ancient Spartan women who, as their sons went off to do battle, would encourage them to "either return WITH your shields OR ELSE UPON your shields (as a stretcher to carry the corpse)."

[Sitaram]

There is the whole ancient Greek pagan issue about hospitality to strangers, and how often strangers were really gods in disguise. Then, with the advent of Christianity, there is the whole thing about the empty chair at the Jewish seder table, which Christians claim was for the Messiah-to-come. And of course, there is the hospitality of Abraham to the three strangers (angels), and also the two angels which come as strangers to Lot in Sodom.

[Sitaram]

Structure of Inferno

http://www.atsweb.neu.edu/uc/s.cassavant/DanteOut.html

http://novaonline.nv.cc.va.us/eli/eng251/dante.html

CIRCLE 9 - TRAITORS IN COCYTUS

1. To Kindred - Caina
2. To Country - Antenora
3. To Guests - Ptolemea
4. To Masters - Judecca

Cocytus is a frozen lake of ice; Satan is immobilized at the center. Cocytus includes four kinds of traitors.

Traitors to Kindred - Caina named after Cain, the first murderer of a kinsman

Traitors to Country - Antenora; named after the Trojan Antenor who in the Middle Ages was believed to have betrayed Troy to the Greeks

Bocca degli Abati - Canto 32: 97 - 99 was a noble Guelph from Florence. He betrayed his party by cutting off the Guelph standard bearer's hand during the battle against Manfred's troops at Montaperti in 1260, which caused the Guelphs to panic and lose the battle.

Traitors to Guests - Ptolomea, named after Ptolomey, a captain of Jericho who invited guests to a banquet and then murdered them while they were his guests.

Traitors to Masters (or benefactors)- Judecca is where Satan is munching on Judas, Cassius and Brutus) - Canto 34: 20, 21. The Judecca is named for Judas Iscariot who betrayed Christ. Also includes Cassius and Brutus who betrayed Julius Caesar. This puts together the betrayal of masters of Church and State Frozen center contains Satan - total absence of goodness; absolute distance from God; Virgil and Dante climb down Satan's side to the center of the earth; turn around and start climbing up toward Purgatory.

[Bongitybongbong]

Thanks Sitaram.

[Sitaram]

Another reason to have traitors to family FIRST, is very simply that the Cain and Abel story comes early in Genesis, as the first murder, which happens to also be a fratricide.

And of course, the betrayal of Christ must come last and ultimate, so that leaves second place for traitors to their country.

[Jester]

hmmm... makes more sense, but personally if it came down to betraying my brohter or a stranger (even if it be god in disguise) I'd betray the stranger, but not falsly accuse him... in that sense I'd betray my brother rather than falsly acccuse someone...

like your avatar sitaram... i got to watch that movie again!

[Sitaram]

That movie is particulary awesome for ONE PASSAGE in the dialogue between the Genie and Alladin, where Alladin says he would use ONE of the three wishes to free the Genie from his bondage. This is most ingenious! And it is closely related to my post in another thread, where someone has stated that a soul in Islamic paradise shall be granted ANY request it makes of Allah. So I "pulled an Alladin" and said, "What if one soul is particularly compassionate and askes Allah to free all the souls from eternal torture in hell and bring them into Paradise."

[Koa]

I think it's just because Dante's values were different... It was some 700 years ago after all. And I think the country meant an awful lot to him because he was exiled from his home town, which at the time was like a country cos there were so many little states.