After death

[JohnAvg]

What follows death, in your opinion?
Do souls exist?
Is life a dream from which we wake up after death?

What do the great authors and philosophists believe?

[billyjack]

1) life?
2) depends on your definition of soul
3) life isnt a dream?? our thoughts about it are dreamy though
4) the philosophers i like see life and death as different sides of the same coin of existence

[absurda]

What follows death, in my opinion, is a big black nothing. But you won't even notice, after all your brain will be dead.

[noema]

"Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi. But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi. Between Zhuangzi and a butterfly there must be some distinction! This is called the Transformation of Things."

[blazeofglory]

What follows death, in your opinion?
Do souls exist?
Is life a dream from which we wake up after death?

What do the great authors and philosophists believe?

Life and death are truer than the meaning we tag to them.

[hoope]

Life after death exist... and there we get judged for all our work
good they were or bad.. and acoording to your deeds you'll be put wither to heaven
or hell .. and that is the eternity.

[Neo_Sephiroth]

Hmm...Yeah, there are things that follows after we die but, unfortunately, my time is really short at the moment so I don't have the time.:(

But, it's all good! I'll be back!:D

[NikolaiI]

What follows death, in your opinion?
Do souls exist?
Is life a dream from which we wake up after death?

What do the great authors and philosophists believe?

Answer to 1. and 2.; We are the soul. The body is a material, outer covering. When we die, we take on a new body based on this life's consciousness, actions, and desires. Every soul is a fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme soul, the Supersoul. The point of life is to learn about the Supersoul.

3. The entire material universe is the relfection of the spiritual one. It is like the reflection of a tree on water. We imagine we are at a particular point in the material existence, but actually we are at no point at all, because the position in the material universe is based on the connection of your body. As a spirit soul you are transcendental- eternal and not affected by the laws of causality.

The illusion part of life is the illusion of the false ego, and anything connected in this regard. In general we associate with our body. We try to serve the "I" and "mine." But actually a lot of the time we are simply serving our senses, gratifying them. This takes us away from any questioning about the soul.

I don't know if we wake up after death, but there are times when you can wake up from it in this life. The Buddha said when asked what he was that he was "Awake." Speaking of the soul I've been speaking mainly with Hindu ideas, but the Buddhists would call it realizing wisdom, or realizing your buddha-nature. Both Buddhists and Hindus are actually far more scientific than western scientists, because they analyze what existence is, what their ego is, and find the bodily ego is false ego.

The illusion is one of things. In the real world, things do not exist-- in other words, they don't exist independlty of other things . Nietzsche was actually intelligent enough to say that there is no "thing," and this was an important thing he said. So, phenomena is illusion. There is an interesting phenomenon which is universal, and that is: awakening, or enlightenment. There's a feeling of the entire cosmos. And what can you say simply, after you have woken, even though you will continue on in your life as before, other than this; that all except the parts which can be seen when awake, is only inconscient actions.

"I have been awake."
"What did you see?"
"All I can say is that everything which exists here exists in darkness."

The Buddhist idea and the Hindu idea are actually very similar. Because the only question that matters is this; are both the Hindu and the Buddhist existing in the same reality? If so, then they are. What does it really matter if they experience the same thing? The reality they exist in is the same thing, so that is what's important. Does it matter if the Buddhist can communicate with the Hindu? Isn't this of very little importance? An interpretation of Buddhism finds that all is interconnected. All is like an ocean-- touch it one place, and it is felt on the other side. What does this mean but that the far is actually near? From where I exist, I can know that every part of creation is connected to me, and I to it. From the highest to the lowest; all is from the same qualitative natural state. I am the same, in form, to the highest and the lowest in my universe. Since I exist between nothing and infinite, it doesn't matter where I go; because the only thing which exists is the infinite. Thus there is no here or there. And this is what the Buddhists say as well, although they seem to have little concrete understanding of the idea of infinite energy.

4. On my list are (in NO particular order :)): Alan Watts, Milarepa, Seng Ts'an, Srila Prabhupada, Sri Aurobindo, The Mother, Dostoevsky, Karl Jaspers, Kierkegaard, and many others I think. Srila Prabhupada is a proponent of bhakti-yoga, devotional yoga. I think he is the closest to truth of anyone I've read, and I don't really disagree with him about much.

Alan Watts wrote many books on different philosophical topics, including zen.., Milarepa was a Tibetan saint-poet who composed at least hundreds of songs which comprised his teachings. Seng Ts'an was a patriarch of Chinese Ch'an Buddhism.

[Auriga]

Answer to 1. and 2.; We are the soul. The body is a material, outer covering. When we die, we take on a new body based on this life's consciousness, actions, and desires. Every soul is a fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme soul, the Supersoul. The point of life is to learn about the Supersoul.

I'm really sorry, but.. despite how pretty this sounds, it's complete nonsense. How in the world can you say such a statement using such concrete language as if to suggest certainty? You are a human being. I am a human being. We are both alive. Therefore, you have no mental capabilities that I do not posess and as a result, you have no more knowledge about the after life, the composition of our souls and the eventual journeys, transformations, metamorphosis and other such incredibly waffle ideologies than I do.

[NikolaiI]

I'm really sorry, but.. despite how pretty this sounds, it's complete nonsense. How in the world can you say such a statement using such concrete language as if to suggest certainty? You are a human being. I am a human being. We are both alive. Therefore, you have no mental capabilities that I do not posess and as a result, you have no more knowledge about the after life, the composition of our souls and the eventual journeys, transformations, metamorphosis and other such incredibly waffle ideologies than I do.

Auriga, though I recognize your name, I wasn't thinking, as I wrote this, that I know more about these things than you. I hope you get my point here.

Secondly I would discuss these things with you but you don't seem to wish to, since you called them waffle, and nonsense.

[Auriga]

Well, you're ideas seem to expound a certainty about the afterlife that one would regard as being almost truly knowledgable.

[NikolaiI]

Well, you're ideas seem to expound a certainty about the afterlife that one would regard as being almost truly knowledgable.

I didn't come to my ideas randomly or arbitrarily or thoughtlessly. I studied Plato, Western philosophers... some such as Ken Wilber and Alan Watts; the psychologist Abraham Maslow... all these were part of my learning. Then I studied Buddhism and found a lot there.. then finally (finally!) I found Bhagavad-Gita and began attending classes at the local temple.

I learned a lot from all I had studied up to this point, I generally found Buddhism to be deeper than most else; but the philosophy of bhakti, devotion, of the Gita, I realized was much higher than even Buddhism. Buddhism speaks of interconnectedness and realization of deep wisdom, but it is vague about existence. I found passages in scripture that indicated Buddha was reality, but I don't know how much Buddhists today are aware of this.

So this might seem like nonsense to you-- believe me, I will treat you with the respect of never calling your words nonsense-- but it is not to me. If you wish to discuss something, then please, let's. I'm open to discussing any of my ideas in depth, why I think they are possible or likely... anything really.

[mark waters]

I don't see any way that we could know for sure, what happenes when we die. I'm fairly certain that I am here now. Therefore, I plan (and have always planned) to live a good life and not worry what happens when I die.

[AshleyMare]

After we die we go into a world of shadow were our soul makes a decision. It is either reincarnation in which case our soul would know what form we deserve to take according to life you lived. A second choice would be to stay in the shadows to perhaps wait for a loved one, but our soul can always reincarnate or chose the third choice. The third choice is(sorry this next part is slightly influenced by Philip Pullmans, His Dark Materials trilogy.) to become one with the earth. Or soul shatters into billions of pieces of laughter and we become all that is beautiful in the earth. We become the clouds on a sunny day, an exotic plant, the greenest grass, and the rain and everything. And this separation of our whole soul is the happiest moment we ever experience, and the moment lives on forever. These beliefs I have devised through careful thought, and some slight research. Some of it was influenced by fictional books, other parts by religions.

[skasian]

As soon as birth, one commences to die.
Surely a human soul does not end after life in earth.
After death is an eternal life, either heaven or hell which depends on your life in earth.
After death there is no time or space, so there is no aging or sense of direction.
In heaven, you become a people of the Kingdom of our Lord, Jesus Christ and continue serving him and praising him as our Lord forever.
In hell, you become slaves of satan and endure the most horrific life unimaginable forever.
In order to go to heaven, we must accept God into our lives and follow his Words such as loving Him, ourselves and our neighbour.

[Ohmyscience]

Why are people here professing such certainties about something clearly no one knows for sure. Let's be reasonable and just admit we do not and possibly cannot know. Even if God himself came down and told me what happens I still could not be sure. Why would I be an exception to be given such insight as opposed to every kind of life on earth. That sort of solipism is extremely stifling to any desire for empirical insights. And just because I gain some insight through personal meditation or conviction isn't it possible that I was just delusional and my senses are decieving me? For metaphysical answers odds are no one knows. Its moot to even discuss it.

[skasian]

Some deeply religious people do have been into realms that are not of this world, to be more precise, heaven and hell as a spiritual encounter with God. You may be skeptic however it is completely true. This thread is for discussing with people who have keen appreciation in their belief in life after death or people who are interested in discussing such subject.

[blazeofglory]

What follows death, in your opinion?
Do souls exist?
Is life a dream from which we wake up after death?

What do the great authors and philosophists believe?

This is a great inquiry and deserves discussing. But I am far from being able to answer it. I am satisfied with asking not with answering it.

[landlink]

There must an afterlife because, the conservation of acts will go awry if a man does evil in life and escapes punishment and if a man does good but gets a difficult time in his lifetime.
When you look at the large (eg cosmos) and the small (eg living cell)and observe their precision, you will easily believe that the Power that made them does not lack the technique to reassemble each person and living organism after its death and decay.

Seow It Sze

[The Atheist]

What follows death, in your opinion?

A funeral


Do souls exist?

Not so that I'd noticed.


Is life a dream from which we wake up after death?

Almost certainly not. This question has been around for centuries and many very smart men, women and children have said lots of things about it. I think there was even a film called The Matrix which dealt with it.

Because it's impossible to refute in the same way we can refute 2 + 2 = 5, the notion is a very persistent one and is called solipsism. It's one of those thoughts which lead you to Plato and other ancient philosophers who wasted entire lives trying to answer that kind of thing.

Safest to assume the answer's no and save your eyes from reading all sorts of baloney.


What do the great authors and philosophists believe?

Depends whether they were atheists or not!

:D

I prefer to look at the National Academy of Science (http://www.nasonline.org/site/PageServer) where the lack of belief in god/s is overwhelming, in complete contrast to the rest of USA.

But what do scientists know?

[skasian]

What follows death, in your opinion?
Do souls exist?
Is life a dream from which we wake up after death?

What do the great authors and philosophists believe?

An afterlife, either Heaven or Hell.
Souls or spirit indeed exist, without it, we are nothing but a carcass.
No, life is real and whether you go to Heaven or Hell it depends on your life in earth.
It depends on the author and philosophists and whether they are religious or not.

[NikolaiI]

A funeral

Not so that I'd noticed.

Almost certainly not. This question has been around for centuries and many very smart men, women and children have said lots of things about it. I think there was even a film called The Matrix which dealt with it.

Because it's impossible to refute in the same way we can refute 2 + 2 = 5, the notion is a very persistent one and is called solipsism. It's one of those thoughts which lead you to Plato and other ancient philosophers who wasted entire lives trying to answer that kind of thing.

Safest to assume the answer's no and save your eyes from reading all sorts of baloney.

Depends whether they were atheists or not!

:D

I prefer to look at the National Academy of Science (http://www.nasonline.org/site/PageServer) where the lack of belief in god/s is overwhelming, in complete contrast to the rest of USA.

But what do scientists know?

Maybe we should just get rid of Plato anyway... I mean if it's baloney right, what's the point?

[The Atheist]

Maybe we should just get rid of Plato anyway... I mean if it's baloney right, what's the point?

Hell, yeah!

I've been saying for decades that the best thing that could happen to philosophy is to throw him out. The only reason Plato still has context in 2008 is that most philosophy lecturers haven't the brains or initiative to find something else.

Remember what the science grad said to the phil grad....

:D

[NikolaiI]

Hell, yeah!

I've been saying for decades that the best thing that could happen to philosophy is to throw him out. The only reason Plato still has context in 2008 is that most philosophy lecturers haven't the brains or initiative to find something else.

Remember what the science grad said to the phil grad....

:D

What did the science grad say to the philosohpy grad?

I disagree with you about Plato, I think he contributed some good ideas.

[JacobF]

1) I believe that consciousness beyond death is impossible. The whole thought of entering some sort of divine realm after death is just as mind boggling as simply not existing anymore. But I choose the latter.

2) I have a wishy-washy belief in the soul. The word 'soul' makes me imagine a big glowing orb inside of me, so I tend not to use it or think about it much. But I do believe that humans are greater than the sum of their parts, and for that reason I guess we do have some sort of a soul.

3) Life being a dream? I'd think life is reality and afterlife is the dream. So no, I don't think we are all living in a dream. Even if we were, what would happen upon "waking up?" Would we die again just to discover that the next life is the reality, and have this continue for eternity?

4) I think this question has been answered.

[Silas Thorne]

What does it matter whether we or something of us exists after death? We are here now. I agree with mark waters. A thousand books can tell us what is to come after we breathe our final breath, but we will never know. Personally, I think it is better to do the best with what we have.

[skasian]

If one believes there is a meaning or a purpose in life then they must believe that there is an after life, as the purpose of life in earth must be fulfilled in the after life.

[blazeofglory]

I do not know whether or not we will be born into men. But I also think man's death is not the end of everything. It is simply transformation in nature.

[NikolaiI]

What does it matter whether we or something of us exists after death? We are here now. I agree with mark waters. A thousand books can tell us what is to come after we breathe our final breath, but we will never know. Personally, I think it is better to do the best with what we have.

This brings to mind a quote of the rishi Kabir...

"What you call "salvation" belongs to the time before death. If you do not break your ropes while you're alive do you think that ghosts will do it after?"



One thought that occurs to me just now is that the knowledge of eternity is within us. My reason for this is as follows. Every being is unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest at their end. So after we die, perhaps, we will be unmanifest. This seems very foreign as we currently live within a very defined set of actions, behaviors and sensations. We know what a million things are like, but we don't know what the transcendence of all of it is like. But the unmanifest nature is contained within us, being manifest now. We were unmanifest before this life, so it is an entirely natural state for us. So we could understand or transcend life and death through meditation.

[The Atheist]

What did the science grad say to the philosohpy grad?

"Big Mac and medium fries, please."


I disagree with you about Plato, I think he contributed some good ideas.

Heck, most people who've read him disagree with me.

[NikolaiI]

"Big Mac and medium fries, please."

Heck, most people who've read him disagree with me.

That's fine but I'm only speaking for myself. Have you read the allegory of the cave - what do you think of it? I think it's definitely one of those things if you read it without thinking much or long you have a very small chance of getting it. But it is actually very deep - and not nonsense or random.

And I mean the allegory of the cave, even if it was his only good idea. Or rather - is it a good idea by itself.

If you don't think it's deep that's fine. But there's no reason, and I'm not saying you would do this I'm just asking you not to, to make fun of someone for saying it is... I'm not saying you to accept it at swordpoint. :)

[Silas Thorne]

If one believes there is a meaning or a purpose in life then they must believe that there is an after life, as the purpose of life in earth must be fulfilled in the after life.

Not true. There can be meaning and purpose in whatever we do, and we don't need an afterlife for this.

[billyjack]

If one believes there is a meaning or a purpose in life then they must believe that there is an after life, as the purpose of life in earth must be fulfilled in the after life.

must?

or...those who struggle to find meaning and purpose in life life look to the afterlife for it

[billyjack]

"Big Mac and medium fries, please."


funny bc its true. which sucks for me

[The Atheist]

funny bc its true. which sucks for me

:D

Hey, at the moment, having a job is good enough.

[skasian]

Not true. There can be meaning and purpose in whatever we do, and we don't need an afterlife for this.

Even if one believes there is a meaning and purpose in the tasks they do, one may not have a central meaning or purpose in their lives, and if they do not have this, then their purpose of live does not fulfill in their afterlife.

But in reality, every task has a meaning, and every life has a meaning that is fulfilled in their afterlife.

[skasian]

must?

or...those who struggle to find meaning and purpose in life life look to the afterlife for it

One that believes in a central meaning of life must also believe that their life in earth must be fulfilled in the afterlife.
The point is if one does not have the true central meaning of life, there is no possibility that their purpose in life will be fulfilled in afterlife.

[The Atheist]

Even if one believes there is a meaning and purpose in the tasks they do, one may not have a central meaning or purpose in their lives, and if they do not have this, then their purpose of live does not fulfill in their afterlife.

But in reality, every task has a meaning, and every life has a meaning that is fulfilled in their afterlife.


One that believes in a central meaning of life must also believe that their life in earth must be fulfilled in the afterlife.
The point is if one does not have the true central meaning of life, there is no possibility that their purpose in life will be fulfilled in afterlife.

I'm sorry, but this isn't discussion.

I'm happy that you believe those things, but constantly repeating the same personal belief doesn't add anything.

[Dr. Hill]

As Mark Twain said, "I am not afraid of death. I was dead for billions of years before I was born and it didn't inconvenience me one bit."

[skasian]

I'm sorry, but this isn't discussion.

I'm happy that you believe those things, but constantly repeating the same personal belief doesn't add anything.

As a Christian, I am providing a perspective and views that Christianity have after death and there is not much of a limitation that I can input here. Religion is deeply connected with after life and I have a right to discuss about it.

There are people like billyjack and Silas Thorne that have stated that they do not agreed with my view and I see that they did not discuss the reasons why they believe so. I dont see you remarking them they are not fully discussing. If you want me to elaborate and extend into a discussion then say so.

[billyjack]

There are people like billyjack and Silas Thorne that have stated that they do not agreed with my view and I see that they did not discuss the reasons why they believe so. I dont see you remarking them they are not fully discussing. If you want me to elaborate and extend into a discussion then say so.


One that believes in a central meaning of life must also believe that their life in earth must be fulfilled in the afterlife.
The point is if one does not have the true central meaning of life, there is no possibility that their purpose in life will be fulfilled in afterlife.

reasons? for starters i'm hung over as a bastard. and frankly the idea of an afterlife sounds a lot like a hangover to me. the worst hangover ever. it never ends. and you have to listen to harp music

why would the purpose of life be fulfilled in the afterlife? yer basically saying that the puprose of life is to end, agent smith.

[billyjack]

:D

Hey, at the moment, having a job is good enough.

yes'r but i'm slowly dying inside. jk. :D

[Janine]

As Mark Twain said, "I am not afraid of death. I was dead for billions of years before I was born and it didn't inconvenience me one bit."

Been reading all of your posts (interesting); but I like this answer best. I won't get into this discussion; I usually steer clear of these type discussions on Lit Net, since they end heatedly.

I often do wonder, where we were prior to birth. Does anyone else ever think about that? Leave it to Twain to actually have said it...interesting.
Maybe someone should start a thread called 'Before Birth'. :)

[skasian]

reasons? for starters i'm hung over as a bastard. and frankly the idea of an afterlife sounds a lot like a hangover to me. the worst hangover ever. it never ends. and you have to listen to harp music

why would the purpose of life be fulfilled in the afterlife? yer basically saying that the puprose of life is to end, agent smith.


If the subject of afterlife makes you have a hangover, then I have pretty much nothing to say, what you think about this, I have no reason to be against.

I believe that our central life in earth prepares us for the afterlife, where our lives still continues. Its basically saying that the death of the physical body is what leads our life in earth. When we move on to the afterlife, this purpose is fulfilled.

[billyjack]

If the subject of afterlife makes you have a hangover, then I have pretty much nothing to say, what you think about this, I have no reason to be against.

you misunderstood. i had a hang over. the feeling corresponded well with the idea of an afterlife. not so much the headache but more so the life negating attitude that goes with a hangover. that is, belief in an afterlife produces a distaste for life itself.



I believe that our central life in earth prepares us for the afterlife, where our lives still continues. Its basically saying that the death of the physical body is what leads our life in earth. When we move on to the afterlife, this purpose is fulfilled.

again. your purpose lies in the beyond. i'd be willing to bet that at times you look forward to the afterlife, correct me if i'm wrong. there's an underlying tenet within the beliefs of christianity that can't wait for this cruel world to end. you call it revelation, paradise restored. and this isnt a harmless belief. it has real life consequences that are extremely immoral

[skasian]

you misunderstood. i had a hang over. the feeling corresponded well with the idea of an afterlife. not so much the headache but more so the life negating attitude that goes with a hangover. that is, belief in an afterlife produces a distaste for life itself.

again. your purpose lies in the beyond. i'd be willing to bet that at times you look forward to the afterlife, correct me if i'm wrong. there's an underlying tenet within the beliefs of christianity that can't wait for this cruel world to end. you call it revelation, paradise restored. and this isnt a harmless belief. it has real life consequences that are extremely immoral

For some Christians, afterlife produces a taste for life as it gives meaning to be alive, believing that every soul being born has a purpose and meaning. Many people who do not understand this end up committing suicide and abusing themselves as well others. Because we believe that every one of us are precious and not born out of random chance, it gives us an emphasis that every soul is priceless therefore remind us that we should love and care about each one another more than ever.

It is true some Christians look forward to the afterlife because it means uniting with our God. But it gives an emphasis that during life in earth, we must work hard in order to receive the same amount of benefits.

[The Atheist]

But it gives an emphasis that during life in earth, we must work hard in order to receive the same amount of benefits.

Eh?

You've been saying that one must only love Jesus to access the christian afterlife; are you now saying there's work to do as well?

[skasian]

Loving Jesus and accepting Him to our lives does mean we get automatic acceptance to Heaven. This also includes the fact that we must do put an effort to love Jesus by following what He asked us to do, therefore work hard to follow His Word.